Spicing your own beef

Cork selfbuild

With people say Xmas is only 90 odd days away, the one thing I love is the abundance of Spiced Beef...

I've never made my own from scratch, but really want to...

So do any of you spice your own beef and care to share the reciepe? My granny used to spice her own but she is no longer around and my mum can't find the reciepe, it's the old traditional taste I'm craving!

Whistlejacket

I've made dry cured spiced beef with the following mixture:
8oz brown sugar (the stickier the better!)
12oz salt (ideally curing salt: ask your butcher for some, if not just use sea salt or rock salt, but not table salt)
3oz allspice
3oz dried juniper berries
3oz black peppercorns
1 small cinnamon stick (I don't think this is all that traditional but I love the flavour and smell)

Whizz it all up in a food processor to grind it and rub it thoroughly into your piece of beef, make sure to get it into all the nooks and crannies. You won't need it all for a single piece of meat but it will keep in a clean jam jar. I like silverside or housekeeper's cut, rather than brisket or flank. They're very lean cuts so I rarely find any fat to trim off before rubbing in the cure.

I then put it into a tupperware box and leave it in the fridge for at least a week to 10 days. I turn it every second day. I've never been organised or patient enough to leave it for 90 days (!) but I don't see any reason why you couldn't, although I'd imagine the flavour and saltiness would intensify a lot, like curing bacon. To cook it just simmer it gently for 3-4 hours until it's tender and delicious. If it was very salty I'd change the water after an hour. It should keep for ages in the fridge, but again, I find it never gets left very long!

As far as I know butchers would brine the beef for a few days beforehand, I haven't tried that but I think there is a recipe for it in The Forgotten Skills of Cooking by Darina Allen.

Cork selfbuild

Thanks WhistleJacket for that, I can taste it already!! Ya the leaner cut the better IMO.

Would you add in any other spices or just keep it simple? I've also heard people add a can of Murphys when cooking it? Would you just simmer it in plain water or add anything to that? How do you know when is right to take it out from cooking? Time per 100g or just guessing by touch, I'd hate it to get too well done and tough...

Wow 90 days? I better get my skates on, maybe I better taste the first few batches to make sure the Xmas one is right!!

Whistlejacket

I haven't added anything else to the spice mix but I don't see why you couldn't. I normally just add a bay leaf, parsley stalks and a few peppercorns to the cooking water but the Murphys is a good idea, definitely going to try that! I've added Bulmers to bacon cooking water so I suppose it's the same idea, just gives a nice little hint of extra background flavour to it.

I find it takes a bit longer to cook than a similar sized piece of bacon, 3 hours is probably the minimum in my experience. To test it I simmer it until a metal skewer inserted into the middle of the joint and held there for 5-7 seconds slides in very easily and is hot when you touch it to your lip immediately after taking it back out. It's a tip from my Dad (who is the best cook I know!) and I find it very reliable. He uses it when frying/grilling/roasting most meats - if the skewer tip is cool the meat is still rare in the centre, warm and it's medium, hot and it's cooked all the way through. I haven't burnt myself yet either!

Yeah I don't think I've ever left it in the salt/spices for more than about 10 days and it's been fine. A bit of liquid leaches out after a few days as the cure works its way into the meat so I'd say you could even cook it after 4-5 days in the salt. Plenty of time for a few tasty test runs!

Cork selfbuild

Peppercorns and the parsley sounds good, as I'm thinking this through in my head right now ( ) the more I think the stout flavour would go well with the spices and beef *getting excited* :pac:

I like that way myself of checking the core temp, an actual meat thermometer sounds like too much effort! Would you ever stop cooking the beef at a medium cooked or always keep going to "hot"?

I'll try to try it at the weekend and see how long it'll last before cooking!

Whistlejacket

Yep I don't own a meat thermometer, nor could I ever see myself bothering with one, Dad's approach is much handier!

The first time I cooked the beef I underestimated how long it would take. When I hiked it out of the pot I had a sneaky taste - delicious! However when I then went to carve a slice off it I realised it wasn't quite as tender as I wanted it so I popped it back in the pot and simmered it for another 45 minutes, until it was lovely and tender. I think these lean cuts of beef can take plenty of slow, gentle cooking so simmering them is very forgiving. You have plenty of leeway before they would overcook in the water and get in any way dried out or tough.

Definitely getting a craving for it myself now as well!

CJhaughey

I don't think beef will keep for 90 days salted or unsalted without some kind of curing salt to prevent botulism.
When the butchers marinate the beef it will have curing salt in the brine for this reason.

Cork selfbuild

So may seem a basic question here, when curing after rubbing the spices, is this dry cured or in brine?

And if one didn't use curing salt how long would be the max you'd leave it?

Whistlejacket

Hi Selfbuild.

This is a dry cure i.e. rubbing a mixture of salt and spices into the surface of the meat and leaving it to penetrate and draw out moisture. This is how it preserves the meat as it basically dehydrates and kills the bacteria that would normally cause spoilage. It works best for relatively thin cuts of meat e.g. flank, brisket, housekeepers cut, belly etc.

A wet cure is where you immerse the meat in a mixture of salt and water (brine) and leave it to soak. Brine may also be injected into the meat to ensure it's preserved all the way through, especially in larger cuts and those on the bone e.g. a ham.

I think a week to ten days in a dry cure in the fridge is plenty. Beyond that I think the salt taste would start to overpower the spices etc. I normally remove the meat from the salt/spice mixture after a week and keep it in the fridge until cooking it.

Normal salt is sodium chloride (NaCl) but curing salt has sodium nitrates/nitrites added. Curing salt is sometimes coloured pink to distinguish it from normal salt. Cjhaughey is absolutely correct in that nitrates also kill the bacteria (Clostridium botulinum) that produce botulism toxin.

In order to contract botulism you need to ingest the toxin, not just the bacteria themselves (this bacterial species and its spores are widely prevalent in the soil etc.). The clostridial family of bacteria all require anaerobic conditions (absence of oxygen) to multiply and produce their toxin and they reproduce optimally at ambient temperatures i.e. not in a fridge. The toxin is also heat-labile, so it's deactivated by cooking food right through.

The highest risk product for botulism from cured meat is therefore salami or other air dried sausages that are eaten without further cooking: they contain minced/ground meat so there is the potential for bacteria to be present within the product (not just on the surface as with correctly butchered cuts of meat) in the absence of air, where the toxin could be produced during the curing process. For this reason curing salt is always used to make salami etc. Furthermore I think it's not a process I would be happy to undertake myself at home, especially in our damp/humid climate.

It's early in the day for a microbiology discussion but there's my tuppence worth! I think it's important to get informed about the process and then decide what you are happy to do or not (just as for any method of food preparation).

I'd recommend that book of Darina Allen's for a more in-depth discussion of the principles of curing, it's a fascinating topic and a very important part of our food culture.

Merkin

I'm really curious about this! Where is spiced beef a tradition for Christmas? Do people have it on Christmas Day? It's not a tradition I'm familiar with at all so interested to hear more!

Cork selfbuild

Hi WhistleJacket,

Yet again, thanks a million, I do like understanding "how stuff works" but your explanation was great! As you say, I wanted to make sure it's done right and no one ends up not the may west!

I must definitely get Darina's book, Ballymaloe is over the road, so must pop over and pick it up!

So what else have you cured? Anything interesting or suggestions?

odds_on

When I was a nipper many years ago, the spiced beef we ate was a rolled piece of meat, spiced before it was rolled and held together with several 6 inch wooden skewers. Thus, there was spice inside as well as on the outside. And there was some fat in there as well - added to the flavour.

Cork selfbuild

Merkin wrote: »

I'm really curious about this! Where is spiced beef a tradition for Christmas? Do people have it on Christmas Day? It's not a tradition I'm familiar with at all so interested to hear more!

I'm massively open to correction here but as far as I know it was a Cork / South west thing going back a few hundred years? Traditionally yes a Christmas dish, eaten on Christman day or Stephens day... I could never wait that long though!

Merkin

Cork selfbuild wrote: »

I'm massively open to correction here but as far as I know it was a Cork / South west thing going back a few hundred years? Traditionally yes a Christmas dish, eaten on Christman day or Stephens day... I could never wait that long though!

That's funny because the only time I've heard it mentioned before is from a guy I used to work with who happened to be from Killarney! Must be a local thing, sounds nyum!

Cork selfbuild

Oh I couldn't recommend it highly enough! Its only awsome!!

Dizzyblonde

Superquinn usually give out samples at their cold meat counters in the run up to Christmas.

pampootie

I'd never heard of it before I moved to cork. Am getting institutionalised though, my Christmas night sandwich isn't complete without it now!

Faith

Merkin wrote: »

I'm really curious about this! Where is spiced beef a tradition for Christmas? Do people have it on Christmas Day? It's not a tradition I'm familiar with at all so interested to hear more!

It's very much a Cork thing. We get it every Christmas. It's not eaten as part of the main Christmas meal, usually, but in sandwiches and on it's own over the Christmas period. It's great with chilli jam

The Hill Billy

Ah heyor! Us Dubs have been eating it for years too. But, yes - we acknowledge that it is a 'Cork' thing.

Faith

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Ah heyor! Us Dubs have been eating it for years too. But, yes - we acknowledge that it is a 'Cork' thing.

Often copied, but never equalled :pac:

dipdip

I always thought it was a Wicklow thing... the only people I know who ate it were from there. I am so curious to taste it!

ivorsflutter

This is a salt beef recipe I've used before with good success. It may not be the spice beef that you're looking for but very similar. It's taken from Tom Parker Bowles - once cooked it's hard to stop eating with a bit of real granary bread, gherkin and mustard.

Brine recipe
2.5kg rolled brisket
4 litres water
700g rock salt
300g Demerara sugar
1 dried habenero chilli (optional)
3 small dried chillies
3 bay leaves
10 black peppercorns
2 star anise
2 cloves
2 sprigs thyme
5 cloves garlic
30g Prague Powder, No 1 (this is the salt petre, and optional)

Mix all ingredients together, bring to boil then let simmer for 4 minutes.
Turn off heat and allow to completely cool.
Then put beef into non-metallic bowls, cover with brine (using a plate to weight down if necessary) and cover with foil.
Leave in fridge for about 7 days, turning every day.
Once ready, rinse and soak overnight in fresh water.
Then put beef into pot with:
2 carrots, chopped,
2 onions, chopped
1 stick of celery, chopped
4 cloves garlic
1 bouquet garni
Simmer gently for about 2 to 2.5 hours.

odds_on

Faith wrote: »

It's very much a Cork thing. We get it every Christmas. It's not eaten as part of the main Christmas meal, usually, but in sandwiches and on it's own over the Christmas period. It's great with chilli jam

Used to eat it for breakfast on Christmas morn, with toast.

Dizzyblonde

I'll have to get some this Christmas - to boost the Dublin numbers

the beer revolu

It is also eaten in (and possibly originates in) England.
I remember the BBC Good Food show doing it years ago.

Cork selfbuild

ivorsflutter wrote: »

This is a salt beef recipe I've used before with good success. It may not be the spice beef that you're looking for but very similar. It's taken from Tom Parker Bowles - once cooked it's hard to stop eating with a bit of real granary bread, gherkin and mustard.

Hi Ivorsflutter, this sounds really tasty, got to add this to my cookbook app too, I'll have beef sandwiches morning noon and night!!! :pac:

Whistlejacket

Supervalu had spiced beef from a Cork butcher/supplier in the lead up to last Christmas (in fairness, I think it is only right and apt to acknowledge it as a "Cork Christmas" tradition in Ireland!). It comes in a vacuum pack and looks quite dark in colour, and seemed to have been fairly widely available outside Munster for the first time last year that I could recall.

I brought some home to the midlands as we had a crowd and wanted to have some for Christmas Eve dinner and sandwiches afterwards, to try and discourage people from attacking the ham after midnight mass. It was agreed by all to be only gorgeous!!

Cork selfbuild

Whistlejacket wrote: »

Supervalu had spiced beef from a Cork butcher/supplier in the lead up to last Christmas (in fairness, I think it is only right and apt to acknowledge it as a "Cork Christmas" tradition in Ireland!). It comes in a vacuum pack and looks quite dark in colour, and seemed to have been fairly widely available outside Munster for the first time last year that I could recall.

Hurleys SuperValu used to spice their own beef until last year and only sold this, it was a disappointment in comparison to their own, but handy none the less!

Whistlejacket wrote: »

to try and discourage people from attacking the ham after midnight mass.

Haha ya it always seems to get a scalp taken out of it... Midnight Mass after a few beers is hungry work!

TBoneMan

odds_on wrote: »

When I was a nipper many years ago, the spiced beef we ate was a rolled piece of meat, spiced before it was rolled and held together with several 6 inch wooden skewers. Thus, there was spice inside as well as on the outside. And there was some fat in there as well - added to the flavour.

The rolled piece is spiced brisket...its heaven slow simmered...I got a big 5lb piece in Bresnans Douglas last year. All gone by stephens day lunch :-)

odds_on

the beer revolu wrote: »

It is also eaten in (and possibly originates in) England.
I remember the BBC Good Food show doing it years ago.

I lived in England for several years and could never find it unless you tried Irish areas and even then it was difficult to find. Any English person I spoke to had never heard of it.

I got half a dozen slices last yrear at Supervalue - the only place that seemed to sell it sliced! Hope Aldi come up with some this year.

Minder

ivorsflutter wrote: »

This is a salt beef recipe I've used before with good success. It may not be the spice beef that you're looking for but very similar. It's taken from Tom Parker Bowles - once cooked it's hard to stop eating with a bit of real granary bread, gherkin and mustard.

Brine recipe
2.5kg rolled brisket
4 litres water
700g rock salt
300g Demerara sugar
1 dried habenero chilli (optional)
3 small dried chillies
3 bay leaves
10 black peppercorns
2 star anise
2 cloves
2 sprigs thyme
5 cloves garlic
30g Prague Powder, No 1 (this is the salt petre, and optional)

Mix all ingredients together, bring to boil then let simmer for 4 minutes.
Turn off heat and allow to completely cool.

If you dissolve the sugar and salt with the aromats in 2 litres of boiling water, you can add cold water or ice to make up the solution to 4 litres and cool the solution quicker. A litre of water or a kilo of ice.

yabadabado

I am going to try making my own Spiced Beef this year and I am wondering is it worth using saltpeter ?I have heard it can be dangerous if used by a novice but are these just extreme cases?I mean if I follow the recipe should all go ok or am I better getting a premixed cure?I was looking on a few different websites and there is Cure 2 and Prague power are these suitable to use ?

the beer revolu

yabadabado wrote: »

I am going to try making my own Spiced Beef this year and I am wondering is it worth using saltpeter ?I have heard it can be dangerous if used by a novice but are these just extreme cases?I mean if I follow the recipe should all go ok or am I better getting a premixed cure?I was looking on a few different websites and there is Cure 2 and Prague power are these suitable to use ?

Just ask your local friendly butcher who cures their own ham and bacon or does spiced beef. If nice, they'll give you a little and tell you how much to use.
I was unable to find saltpetre when I went looking for it.

Minder

I make up a brine with 10% salt to water. Then I add the same weight of brown sugar. For example measure out 1 litre of water and bring to the boil. Add 250g of sea salt and 250g of brown sugar. Stir until dissolved. While still hot, add 3 or 4 whole star anise, a tablespoon of fennel seeds, a tablespoon of coriander seeds and a tablespoon of caraway seeds. Cut a large onion into chunks, add the juice and squeezed halves of an orange and the stalks of a bunch of parsley. Also add a couple of tablespoons of black peppercorns and yellow mustard seeds. Finally add a couple of teaspoons of saltpetre. Stir until all the solubles are dissolved and leave to stand for up to an hour. Finally add the remaining cold water (1.5 litres) to take to solution back to 10%. If you are in a hurry, 1.5kg of ice will do the same job and cool the mixture down quicker. It needs to be about 10 to 12c when I add the cut of beef. I use a large tupperware box and leave the meat to sit in the brine for 10 days. Last batch cooked for 5 hours on the hob at barely a simmer. Was meltingly tender.

Dizzyblonde

Minder I've moved your post to this recent thread following Dubl07's query in the other much older thread, now closed.

yabadabado

I followed a receipe that I found here and must say it turned out well especially as it was my first try.I used saltpetre .

Minder

Anyone tried cooking spiced beef in either a steam oven or a smoker?

Carawaystick

the beer revolu wrote: »

I was unable to find saltpetre when I went looking for it.

That's cos it's controlled as it's one of the main ingredients in making fertiliser bombs-- you can guess the other

You can get it mixed with salt NaCl from saussagemaking.org online or from a butcher. You only use it in about 100 ppm, so it's handier used premixed to a degree anyway
Unless you've a very accurate scales