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Teachers set to be disciplined for obnoxious and greedy behaviour

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    Yeah! And then, when we've fecked up their lives and reduced them to the breadline, we can start on all the other types of workers! This is gonna be great!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Oh no...no again. Public sector vs Private sector round 29.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,633 ✭✭✭baldbear


    The teachers need to get real. Extra money for supervision? Thats crazy. I know loads of young unemployed teachers who would love thee guys jobs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Not all teachers are in cushy and overpaid jobs. A lot of the newer ones have been screwed over by older teachers.

    There is more than meets the eye here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭ThePieintheSky


    Sometimes I think i'd like to return home because I miss it.


    But then I think do I want to pay half my salary to pay for overpaid, and under worked "job for life", sense of entitlement, unproductive civil and public servants? And I think - "no".

    P.S I don't mean the new teachers who were screwed by the trade unions dominated by older teachers. I get their anger.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    It's not that cushy for the newer teachers now in fairness.
    A come on who are we kidding about this private vs public sector debate.
    The private sector is obviously tougher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭ian87


    Sometimes I think i'd like to return home because I miss it.


    But then I think do I want to pay half my salary to pay for overpaid, and under worked "job for life", sense of entitlement, unproductive civil and public servants? And I think - "no".

    P.S I don't mean the new teachers who were screwed by the trade unions dominated by older teachers.

    Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. The Garda who is using his personal car to attend a callout as he isn't allowed use or there is no squad car available. The nurse trying to wade through a health system bursting at the seams. The teacher (myself) with a group of children well over the advised pupil teacher ratio sitting in front of me including 4 children who should be entitled to an SNA, one of whom has autism and was flat rejected last month. We are all overworked and underpaid.? There is dead wood in public service granted, but don't tell me we are all overworked and underpaid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭ThePieintheSky


    It's not that cushy for the newer teachers now in fairness.
    A come on who are we kidding about this private vs public sector debate.
    The private sector is obviously tougher.


    Yes and what is the moral justification for the productive side of the economy being "tougher" than the side that takes the fruit of that production?

    The private sector makes the money. Not the public sector.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    The teachers unions are a disgrace,they'll screw they're fellow teachers to keep ridiculous pensions. Young teachers coming into the job now get less pay and job security while those that got early retirement are on the pigs back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    nothing will happen. quinn will try to make changes, they will go on strike, nothing will change.

    the unions in this country, are rotten to the core.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I don't understand how the government is constantly cutting public sector wages. But yet they won't cut the ridculous wages in semi state companies eg the average wage in ESB is twice the average industrial wage. And when the government does eventually do something with semi state companies like Dublin bus they just cave in


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭ThePieintheSky


    ian87 wrote: »
    The nurse trying to wade through a health system bursting at the seams.

    The teacher (myself) with a group of children well over the advised pupil teacher ratio sitting in front of me including 4 children who should be entitled to an SNA, one of whom has autism and was flat rejected last month. We are all overworked and underpaid.?


    And why is that? Could it possibly be because so much money within the budgets of these departments is going toward wages and pensions?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Yeah! And then, when we've fecked up their lives and reduced them to the breadline, we can start on all the other types of workers! This is gonna be great!

    Theres a sound bite going round on radio which states that Irish teachers are the highest paid in Europe if not the world, have the shortest working year, get paid for paper correcting, supervision time etc etc which other teacher in other countries do not etc. IF this is true then yes, screw em. Nothing to do with public v Private or such. Just screw em for whining when they are being handsomely paid and rewarded.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    Wasn't a teachers full pay a few years ago 60K or something. Then depending on your level of education it could have been more again. Not to mention the pension. Then being off half the year.

    A lot of lazy people tend to become teachers I notice for the hours it seems.
    Saying that however I had some great teachers who put a lot of their own time into their work, they were amazing. It was just a shame they were rare enough.

    One of my teacher got "sick" for 3 weeks at the same time each year ffs. Everyone


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 476 ✭✭christ on a bike!


    Teachers make poor money, and it will never really get that high bar the small handful who become principals which is why they can't get paid a real pittance, as many would like.

    Biggest issue in my opinion is that there is no city allowance or similar.
    I have teacher friends in the country who were all able to buy houses, money goes a lot further. I have teacher friends in Dublin who are always broke, can only see their money getting worse and who need to leave if they ever want a decent standard of living


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭Duck's hoop


    Yes and what is the moral justification for the productive side of the economy being "tougher" than the side that takes the fruit of that production?

    The private sector makes the money. Not the public sector.

    Ok. So where were the private sector workers educated? On the moon?

    Who do they call when there's a break in or an accident? Private ambulance or rent a cop?

    Your post smells of ignorant pig shìt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    The teachers unions are a disgrace,they'll screw they're fellow teachers to keep ridiculous pensions. Young teachers coming into the job now get less pay and job security while those that got early retirement are on the pigs back.

    Between 2008 -2012 pay for teachers -6%. Pensions for teachers +60%. Overall pay & pensions - 0.4% increase. Exchequer figures, absolute madness!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 476 ✭✭christ on a bike!


    Wasn't a teachers full pay a few years ago 60K or something. Then depending on your level of education it could have been more again. Not to mention the pension. Then being off half the year.

    A lot of lazy people tend to become teachers I notice for the hours it seems.
    Saying that however I had some great teachers who put a lot of their own time into their work, they were amazing. It was just a shame they were rare enough.

    One of my teacher got "sick" for 3 weeks at the same time each year ffs. Everyone

    A teacher at the end of their career Teddy.
    Teachers need pay rises at some stage if they ever want to reproduce!

    But I agree there should be discipline against crap teachers, as do good teachers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    Sometimes I think i'd like to return home because I miss it.


    But then I think do I want to pay half my salary to pay for overpaid, and under worked "job for life", sense of entitlement, unproductive civil and public servants? And I think - "no".

    P.S I don't mean the new teachers who were screwed by the trade unions dominated by older teachers. I get their anger.

    Yeah, cos living in the UAE where they treat women like dogs must be great !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭ThePieintheSky


    the_monkey wrote: »
    Yeah, cos living in the UAE where they treat women like dogs must be great !

    Ah but you see this country is run properly not like at home. As so many other countries around the world are run properly not like home.

    P.S remember how the rest of the world looked upon Ireland as a bunch of savages when that Indian woman died in hospital in Galway? The moral being don't judge somewhere you know nothing about!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    I've no real comment on the worth of teachers.

    But I have to say I always feel sorry for entrance level civil servants getting shafted because of older union members wanting to save their crust.

    My friend is a junior doctor and the deal for consultants was to keep what they have but to set a wage cap on new regs and consultants. Take about sh*tting all over your colleagues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Yeah! And then, when we've fecked up their lives and reduced them to the breadline, we can start on all the other types of workers! This is gonna be great!

    What breadline?

    They are the highest paid in the developed world, along with working one of the shortest teaching years in the developed world.

    Not to mention bonuses in the form of supervision, etc, which most teachers in other countries in the developed world don't get.

    They have a very, very long way to fall to get anywhere near the breadline.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭nelly17


    The next time you are dropping a kid off to school take a look at the cars parked at the school - the days of the teacher driving a clapped out banger are well and truely gone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    hfallada wrote: »
    But yet they won't cut the ridculous wages in semi state companies eg the average wage in ESB is twice the average industrial wage.

    i can assure you that i have never met anyone on any sort of substantial wage, in fact, everyone that started in the last 8 years or there abouts are on a fairly low wage.. i would like to meet these employees that are on hundreds of thousands to balance out our wages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    10 pages 5 bannings and a lock.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    I'm not sure if this topic even knows how it wants to bash teachers, but I'll respond anyway.

    As a young teacher who relies entirely on sub-work, I was thrilled ASTI turned down the HR agreement. There seems to be this misconception that by turning down the HR agreement, the ASTI have damaged young teachers again. The media and government seem to be trying to build the HR agreement as one that helps young teachers, and that by declining it, jobs will now be targeted.

    But the truth is that had ASTI accepted HR agreement, there'd have been a lot of job cuts anyway, in lieu of the fact the majority of young teachers would see the vast majority of their hours redeployed and destroyed. The idea that young teachers will get better conditions gloss over the fact the agreement makes it infinity harder to get into schools in the first place.

    If people want an agreement where teachers are reviewed and the money is cut by targeting "bad" teachers, there wouldn't be much fight back against it, despite the fact such a review would likely cost as much money as it would save. But on a personal level, the HR agreement that the ASTI are fighting against only serves to destroy the progression of the profession by chasing what few young teachers are left away out the door.

    If people have any value in education, they should realise that the HR agreement will only serve to damage the education sector in the short AND long run. It's not about wages (because ironically, I find that those who were afraid for their money simply accepted the deal); the rejection of HR is about preventing the education sector from being eroded away any more in the name of "budget cuts" which, in reality, are often public pleasing measures in an attempt to look good to the anti-teacher brigade.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,579 ✭✭✭jmcc


    This could get interesting fast. I wonder will this politicise more teachers and have them running for the Dail and local elections? :) For some strange reason (probably the holidays and the sabbaticals) the Dail is infested with teachers. It is the most popular profession of those in the Dail. With most people struggling to just to pay bills, I think that Quinn will get more sympathy from the public on this one.

    Regards...jmcc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭joela


    Whatever about how well paid they are the lack of disciplinary procedures and proper CPD system is my biggest problem with teachers. As a parent of 3 primary school children I take great issue with having no proper transparent system in place to evaluate teaching performance, sanction underperforming teachers and to have proper investigations into parental or other complaints. Is there any other profession where underperforming staff would be left unchallenged, where proper quality systems would not be in place, where you can get promoted to a managerial position with no managerial training or expertise and where CPD is not properly implemented?

    I have had truly wonderful and dedicated teachers who teach my children but unfortunately they are not the norm in my experience. Most teachers are uninspiring in the classroom, lazy in their approach to the curriculum, poorly managed by the principal, do not seem to adhere to any of the codes of best practice, moan a lot about how difficult their lot is and will not engage with parents. There is a prevailing attitude of closing ranks if a teacher is questioned much like the unions are behaving now. Sorry but very little sympathy for the teachers, a shake up is due and teachers should be rewarded based on performance like the rest of the world.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    This argument concerning class sizes is nonsense, there's a lot of countries with larger classroom sizes than our own with teachers on average achieving far superior results & standards. This a typical excuse from teachers when trying to excuse the fact that our numeracy & literacy levels are falling.

    We have one of the most generous pay rates & pensions across the EU for teachers, they have also some of the longest holiday entitlements.

    Its madness in a country with nearly 15% unemployment, a GDP level that's falling year on year & budget deficit of nearly -15 billion p.a. that our budget for education is nearly all going on teachers wages. Close to 70%.

    In my opinion the Haddington road agreement didn't go far enough, their wages should be cut much further & this incremental wage system should be got rid of across the public sector. A performance related wage system should be introduced across the board so at least that way there's an incentive for teacher's etc. to perform.

    There was a time & its still the case in a lot of countries that being a teacher was considered a vocation & the fact they had security of employment was reflected in their wages in comparison to the private sector.

    It's sad for the future of this country that the very people tasked with educating our young are setting an example of being one of the most self serving/self entitled parasites any country in our position could wish for.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭ThePieintheSky


    It's not about wages (because ironically, I find that those who were afraid for their money simply accepted the deal); the rejection of HR is about preventing the education sector from being eroded away any more in the name of "budget cuts" which, in reality, are often public pleasing measures in an attempt to look good to the anti-teacher brigade.

    But IT IS about wages whether you like it or not for the simple fact that the vast bulk of the budget goes in wages and pensions. This is the problem. The only way to address that problem is to cut core pay, conditions and numbers to the European norm and at the same time redress the balance between infrastructure spending and pay.


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