Employed 6 months - Easy to sack?

Hi all,

Working in a retail store the last six months. Three of us employed in the store. One person works less hours than the other two, so wouldn't be in the store much. The other two each do 4 days a week (ie; they overlap on a day, and each do three days).

The store involves large and heavy items. There is generally only one person working at a time. Anyway, every time the boss comes in (usually once a week, or once a fortnight) he has a gripe with something (even if it's not my fault, or an issue with a co-worker, etc.) but because it's me he sees more often, he goes off on a rant talking down to me, etc.

Now I don't take that attitude from people (treat people as you wish to be treated, etc.) so the first time he did this I put it down to him having a bad day. Second time he did it, I snapped back and we had a small argument.

I'm predicting more of this in future. My title is Retail Sales Assistant, and as far as my job description goes, I complete my tasks and perform within reason on all occassions. I ensure the upkeep of the store to reasonable standards, deal with customers, etc. and generally fulfill my role as well as anyone could reasonably be expected to (not saying I'm the best in the world, but not a lazy git, either. I've run my own business in the past so I take it seriously).


What I'm wondering is, can my boss now turn around and sack me on the spot in the heat of the moment sometime? Do I have any legal help/rights here?

I'm working in the store about 6 months. As part of my contract that I signed, it said the first three months were a probationary period (So I'm out of that by three months).

If I get sacked by him, do I have any recourse? I don't really need the job to be honest, as I work in other areas too, I do it moreso because it's a relatively easy one.

Presumably a person can't be fired without due reason? And 'talking back' to a manager wouldn't be a justifiable reason (I assume)?


As I say, I do the job to the same standard as the others employed here, but not one for taking belittling comments or a bullying attitude, so I won't stand idly by and listen to someone talking down to me, but don't want to lose the job over an as*hole boss that I see once a week.


Anyone any real insight?


Cheers

Bandana boy

Talking rudely/back to your boss is a sackable offense I have seen people sacked for insubordination before.
The length of service makes it easy for him to do this without actually sacking you either.

I would hold my tounge in future and try to find a way to manage the relationship without conversations descending into arguments.

Bandana boy

Bandana boy wrote: »

Talking rudely/back to your boss is a sackable offense I have seen people sacked for insubordination before.
The length of service makes it easy for him to do this without actually sacking you either.

I would hold my tounge in future and try to find a way to manage the relationship without conversations descending into arguments.

Surely I must have a leg to stand on when it's him that's initiating every argument, though?

Diziet

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely I must have a leg to stand on when it's him that's initiating every argument, though?

No, not really. Especially before you complete a year's service; that's when your employment rights kick in. You need to learn to handle it without an argument.

Bandana boy

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely I must have a leg to stand on when it's him that's initiating every argument, though?

Two wrongs do not make a right. His manner may be awful but he is well within his rights to question the quality of your work. Your reaction though will not nesesairly be taken in context.

On top of that with your length of service he does not have to even come at the issue as a termination and can just end your contract.

InReality

Sadly until a year is up you can be fired at a whim.

I'd say there is no point in letting someone walk over you for the sake of a job though.
Its easy to do this and still get let go , or you could gradually start to lose self confidence and carry that to another job.

Up to you how you handle a boss though , bad bosses can be a good learning opportunity too !

Doom

I think you need to be continuously employed for 104 weeks to avail of the benefits employment protection/ law

tatli_lokma

Snapping back at someone isn't going to improve anything. As someone who has run your own business, surely you can see that rather than reacting negatively, a firm but polite request that he lower his voice/be aware of his tone would be a more professional response. Just because he is unprofessional doesn't mean you have a right to be.

Retail is notoriously hard as far as management goes - most people who have worked in retail have had really crappy managers and really crappy duties from time to time. That is not to say it's right, its just the nature of the beast. Some people relish the challenge and can turn it around, others hate it and move into a different industry as soon as possible. But as InReality rightly says - bad managers are great learning opportunities.

Legally, you have little recourse under 1 year if you get sacked, unless you feel the sacking was due to discrimination based on one of the 9 accepted grounds. Even after a year, getting sacked for insubordination can happen and you would still have a hard time taking a case, provided the employer followed correct disciplinary procedures (i.e couldn't sack you on the spot, would have issue a warning and have an investigation, but this investigation could still find that speaking back to a senior member of staff is worthy of dismissal).

So the best advice is to find a way to deal with him. You say yourself its only for 1 day a week, so surely you can find a way to manage your relationship with him for such a short period of time?

bobmalooka

Doom wrote: »

I think you need to be continuously employed for 104 weeks to avail of the benefits employment protection/ law

Nope it's 1 calander year I think. Check out citizens information website OP but basically your employment is not protected till you have passed the 1 year mark

smcgiff

bobmalooka wrote: »

Nope it's 1 calander year I think. Check out citizens information website OP but basically your employment is not protected till you have passed the 1 year mark

Not 100% sure on this, but I was at a training course a few years back where they described how the EAT worked.

While the law is one year, it's defacto 2 years service before the EAT will entertain the complaint.

I can't stand over whether this is actually true or not.

Michael D Not Higgins

What does your contract say about any probationary period?

tatli_lokma

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What does your contract say about any probationary period?

As per OP...

Deleted User wrote: »

As part of my contract that I signed, it said the first three months were a probationary period (So I'm out of that by three months).

Michael D Not Higgins

tatli_lokma wrote: »

As per OP...

Ok follow up question, was the probation extended? I'd say if it wasn't officially extended, it's over and they need the same proper reason to sack them

The contract can include a probationary period and can allow for this period to be extended. The Unfair Dismissals Acts 1997-2007 will not apply to the dismissal of an employee during a period at the beginning of employment when he/she is on probation or undergoing training provided that:

• the contract of employment is in writing
• the duration of probation or training is one year or less and is specified in the contract.

From citizen's information.

I interpret this as The Unfair Dismissals Acts applying to anyone outside probation and from the information so far, they are out of probation.

alexlyons

Not that I always end up in these circumstances, but I've helped others deal with them as well as having issues with bosses in the past.

A really effective way I have found is to just say yes no problem I'll ensure x is done differently from now on etc etc etc
Occasionally when suddenly they get too high and mighty for no reason, I have asked "do you think you're being fair?". Most times it throws them a bit as it requires them to reflect on what has happened, it generally results in a flippent, thats none of your business or I'm the boss type comment, but 9 times out of 10, results in either an apology or some form of more pleasant conversation, saying something like, "listen I know it may not be completely your fault and other employees might be to blame also, but try and do things this way"

Pretty general, but bottom line, get them to see things from your point of view, without arguing and without being rude, and most importantly without saying "you have to see it from where I stand". No they don't. But if you ask a question, even if they don't answer it right then, they'll generally answer it subconsciously as they think back on the situation, even if they only think back as they are annoyed. Which will result, normally, in them seeing it from your POV

tatli_lokma

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Ok follow up question, was the probation extended? I'd say if it wasn't officially extended, it's over and they need the same proper reason to sack them


[/LIST]From citizen's information.

I interpret this as The Unfair Dismissals Acts applying to anyone outside probation and from the information so far, they are out of probation.

This does not apply to someone who has less than 12 months service, unless the dismissal is seen to be based on one of the 9 accepted discriminatory grounds. In addition, the unfair dismissals act does not protect against dismissal, but rather gives you the right to appeal dismissal if correct procedures were not followed or you were discriminated against. So OP would only have recourse to appeal if he was summarily dismissed without a proper grievance procedure being followed or if he was sacked because of his race/religion/Sexual orientation etc

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/unfair_dismissal.html

As it stands not knowing when to take it on the chin when the boss has a rant is not grounds for appeal of sacking.