TaylorMade about to start making non-conforming clubs ?

alxmorgan

Very interesting development if it happens

http://www.mygolfspy.com/taylormade-non-conforming-illegal-clubs/

Probably not going to affect 99% of people on here even if it does happen as most play competitive golf but interesting nonetheless....

This is why it makes perfect sense for it to happen from a marketing and profits point of view

The real average golfers, and in fact the majority of golfers are the weekend duffers; the recreational crowd. They play by their own rules. They keep score loosely, if at all. They don’t play in tournaments, or even for money. They believe the foot wedge is the unsung hero of the golf bag (they might be right), and I can assure you they don’t give a damn what the USGA thinks about any of it.

As with golf, the UCI (cycling’s governing body) has rules that cover every aspect of the spot, including equipment. There are bikes that are deemed competition-legal and bikes that are not. The difference between golf and cycling is that if I just want something to ride around the neighborhood, my choices aren’t limited to UCI legal bikes.

Since a non-conforming line wouldn’t be bound by any of the conventions of what a golf club is, what it looks like, what it’s made from; golf companies would be free to experiment with new materials, new geometry, and completely new ideas.

on why this is good for golf...

+ You want to mitigate the impact of longer courses? Let guys hit the ball farther.

+ You want to speed up play? Let guys hit the ball straighter and keep them out of the damn woods.

+ You want to attract new golfers? Make the game more fun, and part of that means giving non-competitive golfers the ability to play whatever it is that makes the game more enjoyable for them.

ssbob

alxmorgan wrote: »

Probably not going to affect 99% of people on here even if it does happen as most play competitive golf but interesting nonetheless....

People will abuse this if it does start happenig I would imagine!

dwd

I really don't like the sound of this, In my opinion it would be a lot better for the game if the R&A and the USGA put more restrictions on equipment, especially the golf ball, and then you wouldn't have to have the 6500yds+ golf courses which a lot of average golfer struggles with. If they go ahead with it, my RBZ will be the last piece of equipment I buy from TM

alxmorgan

ssbob wrote: »

People will abuse this if it does start happenig I would imagine!

I guess the argument is that there is already plenty of scope to abuse/cheat in the game. Cheaters gonna cheat.
Plus there are already clubs that are non-conforming. Guess big difference here is they would become more mainstream

dwd wrote:

I really don't like the sound of this, In my opinion it would be a lot better for the game if the R&A and the USGA put more restrictions on equipment, especially the golf ball, and then you wouldn't have to have the 6500yds+ golf courses which a lot of average golfer struggles with. If they go ahead with it, my RBZ will be the last piece of equipment I buy from TM

I would agree for the pros but its not like most amateurs (vast majority) have an issue with hitting it too far. Of course that opens up the whole playing a different game question. But to be fair I never buy into that.

It's their profession...they hit 1000s of balls a day/week, have trackman, personal trainers, new fitted clubs whenever, perfect courses in perfect weather to practice/play on most of the time...doesn't sound like the game I play.

spacecoyote

How do you monitor this though?

You release non conforming clubs that the casual golfer can use. Who is going to stop them from entering club comps & using the clubs then?

Do you have a ranger on the first tee of every competition checking everyones bag for non-conforming clubs?

I don't see how this could work in practice, but at the end of the day TM are looking to make money, so if they can get around it I'm sure they will

bustercherry

spacecoyote wrote: »

How do you monitor this though?

You release non conforming clubs that the casual golfer can use. Who is going to stop them from entering club comps & using the clubs then?

Do you have a ranger on the first tee of every competition checking everyones bag for non-conforming clubs?

I don't see how this could work in practice, but at the end of the day TM are looking to make money, so if they can get around it I'm sure they will

Why do you have to monitor it at all? Who monitors DMDs are conforming or the non-conforming clubs currently?

alxmorgan

spacecoyote wrote: »

How do you monitor this though?

You release non conforming clubs that the casual golfer can use. Who is going to stop them from entering club comps & using the clubs then?

Do you have a ranger on the first tee of every competition checking everyones bag for non-conforming clubs?

I don't see how this could work in practice, but at the end of the day TM are looking to make money, so if they can get around it I'm sure they will

I suppose its no different to a laser with slope. Who checks them ?

Or do we have a ranger at the first tee counting clubs to make sure there are only 14 in a bag ?

Or eyeballing every player to watch against use of the leather wedge ?

I guess what I am saying is that this is a game that is largely self-policed anyway.

Having said all that, this increases the chances of illegal equipment being used certainly.


<btw just to say I am not coming down for or against this idea. I won't be buying the stuff. I'm just interested in the debate it raises >

alxmorgan

bustercherry wrote: »

Why do you have to monitor it at all? Who monitors DMDs are conforming or the non-conforming clubs currently?

Beat me to it !!

SnowDrifts

It would be a surprise to me if there was a high percentage of players who would fork out lots of cash for new non conforming clubs and not play in any form of competitions?

DuckSlice

How many people will buy them not realising that they are non conforming?


I know an extra 30 yards would make a massive difference to my game. Would make most par5 reachable for me plus on par4 I would be taking shorter irons. How many people would be the same as me. Id prefer to work on my swing than buy a club that going to give me that, unless I can get it from a custom fit but that's a different story.

All in, I think it's a bad idea.

alxmorgan

I think the think with all of this is it is aimed at the US market.
I get the impression over there that competitive golf is not not played by a high percentage of the playing population ( I could be wrong of course)
But they seem to be focusing on that part of the market

Dr_Colossus

This is not an idea/development I'd be in favour of.

Golf is a difficult sport requiring great patience, reserve and serious commitment if looking to improve and personally that's one of the great appeals of the sport. You generally can't buy a good golf game and one's ability is universally reflected in their handicap which allows a medium with which to compare your skill against that of your competitors or even professionals on tv. You all generally hit the same spec golf ball with the same conforming golf clubs so the variations in play is up to the player at hand.

With the introduction of non-conforming clubs granted their users will not have handicaps or likely be interested in having one but it has the potential to allow their owners to purchase a golf game which as the article states "mitigate the impact of longer courses" and "Let guys hit the ball straighter and keep them out of the damn woods". In effect making the game easier for players who don't have the temperament or commitment to practice and improve their game the old fashioned way and thus appreciate the level at which professionals and competing amateurs play the game.

There are already massive variations in clubs with game improver irons, a whole series of shafts and customisable options and while I'm not advocating that everyone should play with the same clubs at least all the equipment in play conforms to strict (if varying) specifications and surely that's enough without introducing non-conforming clubs into the mix as well.

alxmorgan

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

This is not an idea/development I'd be in favour of.

Golf is a difficult sport requiring great patience, reserve and serious commitment if looking to improve and personally that's one of the great appeals of the sport. You generally can't buy a good golf game and one's ability is universally reflected in their handicap which allows a medium with which to compare your skill against that of your competitors or even professionals on tv. You all generally hit the same spec golf golf with the same conforming golf clubs so the variations in play is up to the player at hand.

With the introduction of non-conforming clubs granted their users will not have handicaps or likely be interested in having one but it has the potential to allow their owners to purchase a golf game which as the article states "mitigate the impact of longer courses" and "Let guys hit the ball straighter and keep them out of the damn woods". In effect making the game easier for players who don't have the temperament or commitment to practice and improve their game the old fashioned way and thus appreciate the level at which professionals and competing amateurs play the game.

There are already massive variations in clubs with game improver irons, a whole series of shafts and customisable options and while I'm not advocating that everyone should play with the same clubs at least all the equipment in play conforms to strict (if varying) specifications and surely that's enough without introducing non-conforming clubs into the mix as well.

Very well put.

I guess arguments against what you say would be in terms of increasing players numbers. Golf is tough (one of the reasons we all love it I would guess) and that can have a negative impact in terms of it being seen as "entertainment" (which I'm not sure many of us do)

One example I came across recently was an older gent who would have given up the game but for using an anchored putter which solved the yips for him. That will be taken away from him soon. Is that in the best interests of the game ? I'm not sure. For pros sure, for the Sunday golfer (especially the older ones) I'm not so sure.

mike12

I'm going to take a guess that they won't even be released this side of the pond.
Most golfers in Ireland are members of clubs and play some comps in the USA most golfers don't play club comps they play once a month have all the latest equipment and can't hit the ball out of their way and have handicaps of 36.
I think most of us would know if someone was using one of these non conforming clubs in a comp but i'm guessing you won't see them here.
The yanks are crazy when it comes to new clubs if you walk in to a golf shop there the week after TM launch the new version of something you have 10 second hand of the older version that look like they were never hit.

Mike

alxmorgan

mike12 wrote: »

I'm going to take a guess that they won't even be released this side of the pond.
Most golfers in Ireland are members of clubs and play some comps in the USA most golfers don't play club comps they play once a month have all the latest equipment and can't hit the ball out of their way and have handicaps of 36.
I think most of us would know if someone was using one of these non conforming clubs in a comp but i'm guessing you won't see them here.
The yanks are crazy when it comes to new clubs if you walk in to a golf shop there the week after TM launch the new version of something you have 10 second hand of the older version that look like they were never hit.

Mike

Now that is very true. Head over to the forums on golfwrx or the sandtrap or the Hackers Paradise and you'll see these "gear whores" as they call themselves in full flight.

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

Very well put.

I guess arguments against what you say would be in terms of increasing players numbers. Golf is tough (one of the reasons we all love it I would guess) and that can have a negative impact in terms of it being seen as "entertainment" (which I'm not sure many of us do)

One example I came across recently was an older gent who would have given up the game but for using an anchored putter which solved the yips for him. That will be taken away from him soon. Is that in the best interests of the game ? I'm not sure. For pros sure, for the Sunday golfer (especially the older ones) I'm not so sure.

But dont we have pitch'n'putt, par 3 and "beginner" course for that?
I don't think it makes sense to allow relative novices to play the Blue Monster just because they have clubs on steroids.

It'd be like beating Ronnie in the Crucible, but everytime its your shot the pockets grow and the balls shrink. (Or you could just play Stephen Lee in a regular match and probably win...:eek:)

Regarding the belly putter...I dunno. Is it good for the game to make it easier? Short term maybe, but if golf was easy, would you play? I wouldnt...

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

But dont we have pitch'n'putt, par 3 and "beginner" course for that?

I've lost you there...for what ?

GreeBo wrote: »

I don't think it makes sense to allow relative novices to play the Blue Monster just because they have clubs on steroids.

You may be right but golf needs golfers. And if its about "entertainment" then guys want to be able to tell their buddies I shot X on the blue monster (regardless of clubs used) than some municipal nobody ever heard of.

GreeBo wrote: »

Regarding the belly putter...I dunno. Is it good for the game to make it easier? Short term maybe, but if golf was easy, would you play? I wouldnt...

I don't think it's good to make it easier no. And no I probably wouldn't play if it was easy (although ask me that the next time I have 3 points after 5 and my answer might be different ) but the issue here I guess is that it was available and has now been taken away. And it solves a specific issue with older golfers (it seems, I'm not in that bracket yet - despite how my back feels today)

Just seems a bit harsh on the likes of them

Plus if anchored putting really made it easier then surely more would be using it. Didn't help Paddy much !!

Rikand

if i ever see a non-conforming taylor made club at a boards.ie society event, it'll be the last one I'm at

alxmorgan

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

if i ever see a non-conforming taylor made club at a boards.ie society event, it'll be the last one I'm at

I reckon if they do release them it won't be as TM. It'll be Adams or some other sub-brand. Big risk to do it as the cash cow

GreeBo

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

if i ever see a non-conforming taylor made club at a boards.ie society event, it'll be the last one I'm at

I'll chip in €10 to the get rid of Ricky test the new club project...:D

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

I've lost you there...for what ?

Sorry, I meant for bringing beginners into the game without the skills barrier.

alxmorgan wrote: »

You may be right but golf needs golfers. And if its about "entertainment" then guys want to be able to tell their buddies I shot X on the blue monster (regardless of clubs used) than some municipal nobody ever heard of.

But would you brag about that using illegal clubs? Maybe "they" would, seems fake and pointless to me though...?

alxmorgan wrote: »

I don't think it's good to make it easier no. And no I probably wouldn't play if it was easy (although ask me that the next time I have 3 points after 5 and my answer might be different ) but the issue here I guess is that it was available and has now been taken away. And it solves a specific issue with older golfers (it seems, I'm not in that bracket yet - despite how my back feels today)

Just seems a bit harsh on the likes of them

I think this one they dropped the ball by ignoring it for so long, should have been illegal since day one. But it is making golf easier (and more enjoyable admittedly) for certain people then...

alxmorgan wrote: »

Plus if anchored putting really made it easier then surely more would be using it. Didn't help Paddy much !!

It helps with putting, its not a complete miracle worker!

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry, I meant for bringing beginners into the game without the skills barrier.

I suppose but again can't imagine Big Gerry and the boys being happy with that. They want their beers and steaks and their long drives down the middle without the time put in to achieve it (well not the beers and steaks bit)

GreeBo wrote: »

But would you brag about that using illegal clubs? Maybe "they" would, seems fake and pointless to me though...?

Illegal for competition but not illegal for casual golfers. Just like Ibuprofen is illegal for pro cyclists. Depends on how you look at it. If you're not into competitive golf would you care ? And I can imagine the argument of "they're at the gym all day and hitting 1000s of balls, I need a little help"

GreeBo wrote: »

I think this one they dropped the ball by ignoring it for so long, should have been illegal since day one. But it is making golf easier (and more enjoyable admittedly) for certain people then...

Agreed. As I say I just felt sorry for this man. And someday maybe we'll both be that man !! :eek:

ssbob

alxmorgan wrote: »

Agreed. As I say I just felt sorry for this man. And someday maybe we'll both be that man !! :eek:

I must admit I have only met one person who plays with an anchored putter, never played with anyone else so think it is more common in Professional golf than Amatuer golf.

It does help by the way as the club is fixed to an immovable point so there are a lot less things that can go wrong.

Paddy is another story:rolleyes:

alxmorgan

ssbob wrote: »

I must admit I have only met one person who plays with an anchored putter, never played with anyone else so think it is more common in Professional golf than Amatuer golf.

It does help by the way as the club is fixed to an immovable point so there are a lot less things that can go wrong.

Paddy is another story:rolleyes:

Only met a few myself. He was saying yips was ruining it for him
He was missing 2 footers constantly.
And he played off single digits for years so I guess hard to take.

ssbob

alxmorgan wrote: »

And he played off single digits for years so I guess hard to take.

But I guess I could say "keeping the ball in play" is ruining it for me, but there is no driver currently available on the market to help me with this so why should he have an advantage over me?

alxmorgan

ssbob wrote: »

But I guess I could say "keeping the ball in play" is ruining it for me, but there is no driver currently available on the market to help me with this so why should he have an advantage over me?

I would say two things here:

1) There is nothing stopping you from also using an anchored putter. Therefore he doesn't really have an advantage over you.

2) The big issue for me is as Greebo outlines above that this was allowed to go on for so long and then be banned. Someone has a problem. A solution is found and they are delighted. Next thing this solution is taken away from them. Just seems harsh to me in this specific case.