Landlord wants to increase rent

ShadyLane

Looking for a bit of advice to see what my options are on a situation that has come up with my landlord. (I say landlord, but I really mean estate agent acting on their behalf. I've never met my landlord).

I'm renting a 1 bedroom apartment in city centre for 18 months now. I signed a lease back in March 2012, but didn't sign a new one this year when it was up. I'm paying 850 euro a month, which is already pretty punchy.

I got a letter a couple of days ago, sent on the 16th of September, from my estate agent. He said that my landlord wants to increase rent by 100 euro. This seems extreme to me to request an increase of more than 10%. He cites a reason that a rent of 950 would be in keeping with the local market. He wants my decision by the end of the month and the increased rent would commence Oct 25th.

What are my options here? I can't really afford the increased rent, and it seems so out of the blue. I've been a good tenant, only calling my estate agent once to get a radiator in my bedroom repaired. I do my own repairs where possible. I'd hate to leave, it's a great apartment despite a few flaws.

I have a feeling that something is amiss here. A couple of months ago, the management company was calling me quite a bit trying to track down my landlord. When I pressed them for why they were trying to get in touch with her, they were quick to dodge questions. Could it be she's not paying their fees and that's why the rent is increasing?

I'd appreciate any and all advice.

Idbatterim

you could always come back with a counter offer, say thats the max you can afford and thats it. How much are similar properties in the area asking?

from what I have seen on daft, 950 for an average city centre apartment seems OTT unless its D.2...

xper

Yes, outside of a fixed term lease, your landlord, via his agent, is entitled to adjust the rent in line with market rates up to every twelve months. It sounds like they have followed the correct procedure and given you adequate notice.

You can try and haggle with the agent/landlord on the basis that you are a good tenant but in the current tight rental market in Dublin, they may be of the opinion that they can get a new tenant pretty quickly if you decide you can't meet the increase.

If you think that 950/mth is above the local market rate for a 1 bed, then you could raise a dispute with the PRTB within 28 days of receiving notice of the rent increase andthey will adjudicate. However, the PTRB can take some time to reach a decision.

Why the management company wanted to contact your landlord is neither here nor there.

From the PTRB's FAQ page:

My Landlord wants to increase my rent. Can they do this?
A landlord can only increase the rent once in any 12 month period, and cannot increase within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy. The Residential Tenancies Act prohibits the landlord from setting a rent that is in excess of market rent. If a landlord intends increasing the rent, they must inform you, in writing, of any increase in rent, 28 days before the increase is due to take effect.
What is Market Rent?
Market rent is defined as a rent that a willing Tenant not already in occupation would give and a willing Landlord would take for the dwelling, having regard to other terms of the tenancy and the letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character to the dwelling and situated In a comparable area to that in which it is situated.
I believe that the rent increase is in excess of the market rate. Can I take a case to the PRTB?
Yes, you can take a case to the PRTB. If the landlord has served you with a valid written notice of rent increase, you must submit your application to the PRTB within 28 days of receipt of this notice. Please note that you must continue to pay your rent until your case is determined.

ShadyLane

Thanks very much for the insights above. I didn't think I'd have much of a leg to stand on if I couldn't afford the increase, unfortunately.

If I do decide that it's too much, and I need to vacate the property, what would the timeframe on that be? I usually pay rent on the 11th, so paying the 850 on the 11th of October would get me through to November. The increase takes effect from the 25th of October. Would it be then that I'd have to vacate?

Idbatterim

where is the apartment?

Pawwed Rig

There seems to be a mismatch in the legislation here where only 28 days notice is required for an increase in rent where as the notice period is 42 days. Presumably if you decline the increase in rent then the existing rent stands for the notice period? Anyone know the answer to this?

old_aussie

Tell the landlord that you will most likely be giving notice as soon as you've found an alternative place.

Zamboni

It's a landlords market and they know it.
Do a deal or start looking for another place.
Maybe offer something like 900 a month for a two year lease.
Rents won't be dropping for a number of years in Dub City Centre so best to lock in at the lowest rate you can get.

drumswan

Zamboni wrote: »

Maybe offer something like 900 a month for a two year lease.
Rents won't be dropping for a number of years in Dub City Centre so best to lock in at the lowest rate you can get.

The landlord is still entitled to raise the rent once a year, regardless of the length of the lease. Or am I incorrect?

djimi

drumswan wrote: »

The landlord is still entitled to raise the rent once a year, regardless of the length of the lease. Or am I incorrect?

No, if you have a fixed term lease which outlines the rent details then the rent cannot be reviewed until the lease has expired (one party cant just decide to change the terms of a legal document mid way through its term).

drumswan

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Says here the landlord has the right to review the rent annually.

djimi

I would have thought that a fixed term lease would trump that. If the signed lease states that x amount will be paid for y number of months/years then to me thats a legal contract and one party cannot change the terms mid way through.

OldNotWIse

I feel this will happen to us soon also. We are paying quite low rent for a city centre apartment and recently finished a 12 month lease. Our LL now wants us to sign another 12 month lease rather than what usually happens where you just keep going on a months notice. I suspect when we say no, she will ask for an increase in rent.

drumswan

djimi wrote: »

I would have thought that a fixed term lease would trump that. If the signed lease states that x amount will be paid for y number of months/years then to me thats a legal contract and one party cannot change the terms mid way through.

Confusing and contradicting information in the world of Irish renting, who'd have imagined?

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

(one party cant just decide to change the terms of a legal document mid way through its term).

In theory, but check out the number of "I have just signed a 12 month lease and want to break it threads" that crop up on here. If only both parties would take leases a bit more seriously it would be better for all (non-cowboys).

Even the bloody state encourages, nay demands that folks on RS get their leases changed or face losing RS altogether. What sort of example does that set.

Back to the OP:
Check out comparable places and if you want to stay in the area try to make a deal with LL. He'd be a fool to let a good tenant walk away for an unknown quantity for the sake of a few quid, but he will want some increase out of you.

KwackerJack

Say OK bye bye.......lots of decent cheap places on the market.

My landlord tried the same and after I gave my months notice and provided proof of the new house which was bigger with some land she decided to leave it as it was so I stayed put.

Don't let them force you into paying higher rents

murphaph

KwackerJack wrote: »

Say OK bye bye.......lots of decent cheap places on the market.

My landlord tried the same and after I gave my months notice and provided proof of the new house which was bigger with some land she decided to leave it as it was so I stayed put.

Don't let them force you into paying higher rents

I'm guessing it wasn't in Dublin City then? Horses for courses: there isn't a single property market. Some areas can be in demand with rising prices/rents while others are falling. The fact that ALL property rose in Ireland during the pyramid years was anomalous. The UK, Germany etc. have regional markets with different dynamics, Ireland now has them too.

djimi

KwackerJack wrote: »

My landlord tried the same and after I gave my months notice and provided proof of the new house which was bigger with some land she decided to leave it as it was so I stayed put.

Don't let them force you into paying higher rents

You are obviously fortunate to be living in an area with a relatively weak rental market. In a lot of areas at the moment the landlord would simply say goodbye and good luck, and move onto the next tenant who will pay the increased amount. Quite a lot of the country is not a renters market at the moment...

The Spider

murphaph wrote: »

Back to the OP:
Check out comparable places and if you want to stay in the area try to make a deal with LL. He'd be a fool to let a good tenant walk away for an unknown quantity for the sake of a few quid, but he will want some increase out of you.

I do agree with this, we just renewed the lease with our tenants an kept the rent the same even though it's below the rate for the area, better to have good tenants.

That said, I don't think 100 euro a month isn't a massive increase 950 is still cheap for dublin city centre. that's really only not going out two nights a month, or walking home instead of a taxi, unless the OP is so skint they can't, which I'd doubt, no mention of rent allowance.

The rent more than likely isn't covering the mortgage and now the landlord sees an opportunity to get it covered, no right and wrong here, just supply and demand, landlord may have a different viewpoint if it was a family or mother and child, I would.

A single person can up sticks pretty quickly, may have to move further out for the same rent, but then your travel costs increase so either way it's probably going to cost.

On a side note I rented a place years ago and flatmate moved out, I then had to find an extra 500 a month to cover the rent, it was difficult but I managed it, I liked the house and the area, and that was more important to me than the money, so either way sometimes you have to make a call.

jonnyfingers

I had a landlord, via the letting agency, try to increase the rent twice during the last three years.

Each time I told them that I couldn't afford a rental increase as many other of my costs, such as commuting costs, utilities etc. had increased too. I explained that if the rent was to be increased I'd have to look for another property, which would be unfortunate as I really liked his apartment, felt we had a good relationship, always payed the rent on time and never caused any trouble (basically listing all the reasons I'm a good tenant).

I then said it would be hugely inconvenient to try to find another apartment as good as this one, and I'm sure the landlord might not want to risk getting a troublesome new tenant in for the sake of a rental increase.

Lo and behold each time the landlord agreed to keep the rent as it is.

So I'd try that approach. You have nothing to lose. Either they agree to keep the rent the same and you're happy, or they insist on a rental increase and then you're in the same position as you are currently, you either negotiate it, pay it it full, or move out.

The_Conductor

If its in Dublin city- they won't have any issue whatsoever getting new tenants on 950 a month- it is pretty much the going rate. The 850 the OP is paying at present- is below market rates. I think the OP's best off trying to bargain with the landlord- possibly a 50 Euro a month increase, instead of the 100 Euro a month increase.

Note- if (as suggested) there is an agency involved- they may not care one iota about the apartment being vacant for a month or two- and indeed may not even pass your offer onto the landlord. Typically- when you up sticks and move, they will get the first month's rent as a 'finders fee' for the apartment- so its actually in their interest for you to leave- whereas its not in the landlord's interest. If possible- I'd suggest trying to contact the landlord directly- and align your aims with his- rather than going up against someone in the letting agency- who sees the thousand Euro lumpsum as preferable to keeping you put.

jonnyfingers

The_Conductor wrote: »

If its in Dublin city- they won't have any issue whatsoever getting new tenants on 950 a month- it is pretty much the going rate.

See my post above yours. I'm living in greater London which has one of the most competitive rental markets in the world. I was paying £975 a month for a 2-bed flat when the going rate was around £1200 and over. Yet I had no problem keeping the rent the same for almost three years. I know many others who have done the same.

The landlord will always try for a rental increase, but as long has their mortgage is being covered by the current rent they will be reluctant to get rid of a good tenant for a small increase in rent.

Now this may not be this landlord's case, maybe he doesn't care who's renting from him as long as he gets his money. But the first step should always be to say no to an increase and make the landlord decide if it's worth their while go through the hassle of advertising the property, showing it, find new tenants, getting new references, signing new leases, paying agency fees etc.

Let them stew on it and decide. And as you've said, it's often the agency that pushes this so push right back.

Negotiation can always come after if the landlord digs their heels in. But certainly don't believe the crap that landlords can do anything they want as it's not a "renters market".

gaius c

Individuals might score a lucky bounce thanks to their superior negotiation skills but you can't argue away the weight of numbers indefinitely and right now, there's only 1,557 properties to rent in all of Dublin city when there were 8,000-9,000 back in 2008.

jonnyfingers

gaius c wrote: »

Individuals might score a lucky bounce thanks to their superior negotiation skills but you can't argue away the weight of numbers indefinitely and right now, there's only 1,557 properties to rent in all of Dublin city when there were 8,000-9,000 back in 2008.

That's true, but the key factor is whether the landlord would opt to lose a reliable tenant and open themselves to additional problems/cost in arranging a new tenancy in return for the potential of an increase in rent, which may not be secured.

More availability of renters may swing their decision to risk it, but there is still an element of risk/reward. Many landlords may prefer to keep a good situation going if they weren't relying on the increase in rent to cover their letting costs.

gaius c

jonnyfingers wrote: »

That's true, but the key factor is whether the landlord would opt to lose a reliable tenant and open themselves to additional problems/cost in arranging a new tenancy in return for the potential of an increase in rent, which may not be secured.

More availability of renters may swing their decision to risk it, but there is still an element of risk/reward. Many landlords may prefer to keep a good situation going if they weren't relying on the increase in rent to cover their letting costs.

Know many of them? This is Ireland we're talking about.
Fight your corner by all means but there's no more determined creature in the animal kingdom than an Irish landlord who sniffs an extra 50 quid a month.

ShadyLane

Thanks very much for everyone's advice.

Rent in my area tends to be 850-950 for similar apartments, so I understand that it's well within my landlord's rights to ask for an increase in rent. I also could afford to pay the increase, but have a couple big things I'm saving for that I need the money for.

I think I'm going to say no to the price increase. Assuming my landlord then wants me out of the apartment, how long does that give me to find a new place and move out?

djimi

28 days I think.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

28 days I think.

OP commenced their tenancy in March 2012. Accordingly- they are between 1 and 2 years into their tenancy- and would require to give a minimum of 42 days notice.

Curiously- under the amendment- there are now maximum notice periods- they may not give more than 70 days notice.

S.

djimi

Fair enough. I had something in my head that said that when it was the case that the tenant didn't agree to a rent increase the notice period (that they would be given) was 28 days rather than the standard. I may have imagined that however!

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

Fair enough. I had something in my head that said that when it was the case that the tenant didn't agree to a rent increase the notice period (that they would be given) was 28 days rather than the standard. I may have imagined that however!

That would be an Article 68 notice- where the landlord is in default of his obligations towards the tenant- however, a rent review does not qualify as an action or inaction of omission, under the act. The same Article- reduces notice to 7 days- if danger to property or person as a result of continuation of residence, is noted.

Pawwed Rig

So does the lower rent amount stay fixed for the notice period or does it go up after 28 days? You would imagine the days should correlate.

The_Conductor

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So does the lower rent amount stay fixed for the notice period or does it go up after 28 days? You would imagine the days should correlate.

The lower amount continues to apply while the tenant serves out his/her notice. If they decide to stay- the higher amount applies from the date first indicated by the landlord.

gaius c

Also, if you appeal to the PRTB, the lower amount continues to apply while your appeal is waiting to be heard. After that, you pay what the PRTB decide.

The_Conductor

gaius c wrote: »

Also, if you appeal to the PRTB, the lower amount continues to apply while your appeal is waiting to be heard. After that, you pay what the PRTB decide.

And if the PRTB turn down your appeal- you owe the higher amount from the date the landlord specified- not from the date of the PRTB appeal. Something to keep in mind.......

pietromas

Maybe a bit late, but OP have you checked the PRTB Rent Index?

Despite what you will hear from the media, and certainly from your landlord, rents are dropping in a lot of Dublin City areas, as much as 4% in some areas (and not neccessarily "bad" areas). On the otherhand side of course, it is going up by up to 6% in others.

athtrasna

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I feel this will happen to us soon also. We are paying quite low rent for a city centre apartment and recently finished a 12 month lease. Our LL now wants us to sign another 12 month lease rather than what usually happens where you just keep going on a months notice. I suspect when we say no, she will ask for an increase in rent.

If you don't sign a new lease you would be governed by Part IV tenancy laws which would mean the notice period by either party would be 42 days for a tenancy of 1-2 years.

logictalk

On your comment:

The Spider wrote: »

That said, I don't think 100 euro a month isn't a massive increase 950 is still cheap for dublin city centre. that's really only not going out two nights a month, or walking home instead of a taxi, unless the OP is so skint they can't, which I'd doubt, no mention of rent allowance.

950 for 1 bed apartment (as in my case) in Dublin, it is a massive amount of money especially considering the economic context of 2008-2015 world-wide. Saying "it's cheap", if the milk is

Moreover, it is not "100€" more per month, they pay 950 already. And I do not think they increase their salary 100€ per month every year. They do not work to make you rich, their salary does not belong to you, they have the right to save money and eventually buy their own apartment at some point.

Also, if there is not improvements in the apartment, why an increase? was not fair the price in first place? thing does not change that much in one or two years.

Paulw

Thread is from 2013. No need to resurrect it.