Sigma Acoustic Guitar?

BrianJD

Hi

I bought a Jasmine by Takamine Guitar about 8 months ago and have regretted it ever since. I posted here before about its low volume, tinny sound and general poorness.

I've decided to spend a bit more as €179 was probably a bit cheap for a guitar and the shop I bought in is offering a €100 trade in. He has a Sigma guitar (model and details) below. I've played it but find it very hard to be sure of the sound in a small shop rather than my Kitchen but it dies seem to play and sound much better. According to the retailer the Sigma would be a step up in quality to the Jasmine. Can anybody confirm this and let me know what they would think of Sigma? Price of new guitar is €389 excl trade in.


I just dont want to make a mistake again.

Thanks

wild turkey

An acoustic guitar is a very personal choice.
You can take any review / recommendation you like but at the end of the day its whats going through your ears & hands that counts.
I've always found choosing an acoustic a much harder task than picking an electric.
I usually pick a quiet time, early morning usually does it when your not listening to 5 other people playing at the same time

You need to play as many guitars as possible & not be biast about brands as some of the cheaper ones can surprise you
The decision is yours my friend !

Edit : Have you tried different strings in the Jasmine ??

BrianJD

wild turkey wrote: »

An acoustic guitar is a very personal choice.
You can take any review / recommendation you like but at the end of the day its whats going through your ears & hands that counts.
I've always found choosing an acoustic a much harder task than picking an electric.
I usually pick a quiet time, early morning usually does it when your not listening to 5 other people playing at the same time

You need to play as many guitars as possible & not be biast about brands as some of the cheaper ones can surprise you
The decision is yours my friend !

Edit : Have you tried different strings in the Jasmine ??

Tbh, I haven't but really can't see it making a huge difference. I'm so disinterested on playing purely because of it.

Thanks for advice!

slavetothegrind

is the setup ok? it can make and break a guitar!

if you play it and it feels better, it is. go with your gut feeling:)

sarkozy

Sigma guitars are, I think, manufactured in China and their designs are licensed by Martin. This is why they look so much like Martins. I have an Ibanez acoustic from 1974 and it's called the 'Lawsuit Model' because Martin sued Ibanez for infringement of copyright, and ever since, their headstocks look different.

When I was looking for my most recent guitar, I tried everything to get as much knowledge as possible about what is objectively good and bad in a guitar, and what I like and don't like. At the time, I was looking for a folk-size guitar. So I tried everything I could from the most expensive Martin and Taylor down to Takamine and also unfamiliar brands.

One was Freshman, a Scottish firm that has also outsourced its manufacturing to China. A young company, it was hard to find online reviews, but they seemed really good for the price. Then I looked at Sigma. Good sound for a good price, but on talking with the shop owner, he helped me realise that when you look inside the soundbox, you see signs that they're not quite finished as well as Japanese acoustics, and as a very new brand, they're unproven. But they, like Freshman, are pricing themselves low to break into the market.

I ended up buying a Tanglewood Heritage. These are amazing value for that they are, but they cost around €600 including a Fishman system. The reason is their design, quality of manufacture and wood (and then there's all the tactile, sensual stuff like feel, neck width, etc.).

Before that guitar, I bought a cheap Yamaha as a backup since my Ibanez is so precious to me. I tried everything before settling on that, and it's still a great guitar - loud, balanced, resonant, well-built, feels good - and it cost me €260.

So, back to your question. I have to say one very specific thing about the guitar you picked: the wood. Typical guitar construction has a hardwood for the neck back and sides and a softwood like pine or cedar (mostly pine). The hardwood is for structure and is actually less important, the softwood top is for the sound. Like a drum, it vibrates, so it's important. So when picking a guitar at the low-end, you're looking at a mahogany laminate back and sides (i.e. layers of mahogany pressed together into one strong piece) or cheaper hardwoods like nato (which is what the Yamaha uses). The highest end guitars use only solid, 100% mahogany. For the tops, the options are mostly pine laminate or solid pine or cedar. At the very least, it's worth going for a solid top, and solid pine and cedar tops won't break the bank. The other thing is pine tops mature slowly over years helping the guitar's tone to mellow and balance out. Cedar is becoming more popular because it naturally has more of a mature sound, so you don't have to wait for that, but it doesn't mature so well. Another option is whether you want your guitar finish natural or varnished. This makes a difference - the varnish keeps the sound in the sound box and focuses it as it comes through the sound hole whereas the natural, unfinished surface actually lets some of the sound (due to air pressure) come through the wood as well as the sound hole, changing the whole profile of the guitars sound to something mellower and not quite as loud. You also want a guitar with good machine heads (string winders) - something good quality like Grover or Schaller (which I think Yamaha's come with).

So, back to your guitar. It looks like it's modelled on the Martin D-18 (or possibly D-28 dreadnought), but with a contemporary cutaway to get up to the higher frets. If memory serves, the Sigma had a good enough setup. The cutaway is totally personal. I think Sigma are using good components. But there's one really critical difference: your guitar has a mahogany top. It's all mahogany, and these models were very common in the early 20th century and during various folk/blues revivals. The hardwood top totally changes the sound, maybe it's a little more compressed, not necessarily thinner, but the sound seems more narrow and less resonant. It's a difference in the same way I decided to compliment my generous, full-ranged, bassy and twangy Ibanez and Yamaha dreadnoughts (aping the Martin D-28) with a folk-size guitar. A much smaller soundbox gives it a thinner, 'boxier' sound. And that's what I was looking for and, incidentally, these also come in all-mahogany versions, as Martin once made them.

So this guitar, all told, has one crucial difference over and above all those other subtle yet important differences.

So, with all this in mind, go back and try all the guitars, go to other guitar shops and try all those guitars, get a feel for what you like and balance all the pros and cons of each until your gut tells you which to go for (obviously something that's sensibly within your budget!).

One final suggestion: I notice your guitar has a built-in Fishman system. That might come in useful if you're gigging. But with acoustics, it's all about the wood. So if it's the difference between putting €100 into a pick-up system I might never use or into getting better quality wood, i'll fo with wood every time. You can always add a Fishman system later.

PS: Recording Kings also seem like a decent make. They get good reviews.

PPS: Did you try this guitar in Goodwins?

glashanator

Nice guitar

BrianJD

sarkozy wrote: »

Sigma guitars are, I think, manufactured in China and their designs are licensed by Martin. This is why they look so much like Martins. I have an Ibanez acoustic from 1974 and it's called the 'Lawsuit Model' because Martin sued Ibanez for infringement of copyright, and ever since, their headstocks look different.

When I was looking for my most recent guitar, I tried everything to get as much knowledge as possible about what is objectively good and bad in a guitar, and what I like and don't like. At the time, I was looking for a folk-size guitar. So I tried everything I could from the most expensive Martin and Taylor down to Takamine and also unfamiliar brands.

One was Freshman, a Scottish firm that has also outsourced its manufacturing to China. A young company, it was hard to find online reviews, but they seemed really good for the price. Then I looked at Sigma. Good sound for a good price, but on talking with the shop owner, he helped me realise that when you look inside the soundbox, you see signs that they're not quite finished as well as Japanese acoustics, and as a very new brand, they're unproven. But they, like Freshman, are pricing themselves low to break into the market.

I ended up buying a Tanglewood Heritage. These are amazing value for that they are, but they cost around €600 including a Fishman system. The reason is their design, quality of manufacture and wood (and then there's all the tactile, sensual stuff like feel, neck width, etc.).

Before that guitar, I bought a cheap Yamaha as a backup since my Ibanez is so precious to me. I tried everything before settling on that, and it's still a great guitar - loud, balanced, resonant, well-built, feels good - and it cost me €260.

So, back to your question. I have to say one very specific thing about the guitar you picked: the wood. Typical guitar construction has a hardwood for the neck back and sides and a softwood like pine or cedar (mostly pine). The hardwood is for structure and is actually less important, the softwood top is for the sound. Like a drum, it vibrates, so it's important. So when picking a guitar at the low-end, you're looking at a mahogany laminate back and sides (i.e. layers of mahogany pressed together into one strong piece) or cheaper hardwoods like nato (which is what the Yamaha uses). The highest end guitars use only solid, 100% mahogany. For the tops, the options are mostly pine laminate or solid pine or cedar. At the very least, it's worth going for a solid top, and solid pine and cedar tops won't break the bank. The other thing is pine tops mature slowly over years helping the guitar's tone to mellow and balance out. Cedar is becoming more popular because it naturally has more of a mature sound, so you don't have to wait for that, but it doesn't mature so well. Another option is whether you want your guitar finish natural or varnished. This makes a difference - the varnish keeps the sound in the sound box and focuses it as it comes through the sound hole whereas the natural, unfinished surface actually lets some of the sound (due to air pressure) come through the wood as well as the sound hole, changing the whole profile of the guitars sound to something mellower and not quite as loud. You also want a guitar with good machine heads (string winders) - something good quality like Grover or Schaller (which I think Yamaha's come with).

So, back to your guitar. It looks like it's modelled on the Martin D-18 (or possibly D-28 dreadnought), but with a contemporary cutaway to get up to the higher frets. If memory serves, the Sigma had a good enough setup. The cutaway is totally personal. I think Sigma are using good components. But there's one really critical difference: your guitar has a mahogany top. It's all mahogany, and these models were very common in the early 20th century and during various folk/blues revivals. The hardwood top totally changes the sound, maybe it's a little more compressed, not necessarily thinner, but the sound seems more narrow and less resonant. It's a difference in the same way I decided to compliment my generous, full-ranged, bassy and twangy Ibanez and Yamaha dreadnoughts (aping the Martin D-28) with a folk-size guitar. A much smaller soundbox gives it a thinner, 'boxier' sound. And that's what I was looking for and, incidentally, these also come in all-mahogany versions, as Martin once made them.

So this guitar, all told, has one crucial difference over and above all those other subtle yet important differences.

So, with all this in mind, go back and try all the guitars, go to other guitar shops and try all those guitars, get a feel for what you like and balance all the pros and cons of each until your gut tells you which to go for (obviously something that's sensibly within your budget!).

One final suggestion: I notice your guitar has a built-in Fishman system. That might come in useful if you're gigging. But with acoustics, it's all about the wood. So if it's the difference between putting €100 into a pick-up system I might never use or into getting better quality wood, i'll fo with wood every time. You can always add a Fishman system later.

PS: Recording Kings also seem like a decent make. They get good reviews.

PPS: Did you try this guitar in Goodwins?

Wow
Thank you so much for the amount of wonderful information there. I bought the sigma today after trying loads in Pro Musica in Cork. For my price range I certainly felt it was the best guitar there. I considered a Tanglewood for €100 more but after taking the sigma home and playing for the last hour, I can confirm it has a lovely tone and is just a comfortable guitar to play. I've always been a fan of a Cutaway so I think it looks great as well. Thanks for the replies!

sarkozy

Glad you're happy with it. I'd be very tempted to buy them as back-up guitars if I ever needed them (though I still think Yamaha and Tanglewood Heritage guitars are brilliant value-for-money). How much did you pay for it?

BrianJD

sarkozy wrote: »

Glad you're happy with it. I'd be very tempted to buy them as back-up guitars if I ever needed them (though I still think Yamaha and Tanglewood Heritage guitars are brilliant value-for-money). How much did you pay for it?

I paid €349 for it.

kevmc1180

I bought a sigma 000r-28v in the same shop.
Very happy with it.
Beautiful tones and looks great, lovelly neck too.

I then decided to purchase the Sigma TM12 travel guitar great little guitar to take with me when working away...

I did try the Martin 0001xae even brought it home lovelly guitar just didnt feel the love for it, didnt like the feel of the HPL back and sides either felt plasticy.
I know its a Martin but happier with my Sigma to be honest.

DT100

I have played a sigma,it was a lovely guitar for the money...never buy a guitar for its name...I played a martin once,cost about 700 euro,sounded crap..on the other hand I got a guitar for a friend who was starting off,it was a tanglewood,paid about 190 euro,great starter guitar.It had a great chunky full sound...its what you hear in your ear,and feel in your hand..thats what makes playing,buying,and talking guitars so interesting.You could have two same models to choose from,and get a different sound...:D