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60 dead in suicide attack on a church in Pakistan

  • 22-09-2013 03:10PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭


    It would seem it's never ending.


    http://news.yahoo.com/attack-pakistani-church-kills-over-60-people-103514992.html


    PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) — A pair of suicide bombers detonated their explosives outside a historic church in northwestern Pakistan on Sunday, killing over 60 people in the deadliest-ever attack on the country's Christian minority, officials said.


«134567

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Christ. :(

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    You have to wonder what the hell is wrong with the human race when we can inflict so much pain and suffering upon each other over what a 2000 year old book says.

    The way we are progressing I can imagine in another 2000 years (if we make it that far) it will be Harry Potter followers going toe to toe with the cult of Twilight all because cult of Potter killed Twilight's god in the 3rd book.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    You have to wonder what the hell is wrong with the human race when we can inflict so much pain and suffering upon each other over what a 2000 year old book says.

    The way we are progressing I can imagine in another 2000 years (if we make it that far) it will be Harry Potter followers going toe to toe with the cult of Twilight all because cult of Potter killed Twilight's god in the 3rd book.

    I wish those men who years ago wrote the bible and the quaran could see the trouble their words have caused. If they could see the mayhem and murder and heartache they have caused for billions of people over thousands of years would they still write them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I wish those men who years ago wrote the bible and the quaran could see the trouble their words have caused. If they could see the mayhem and murder and heartache they have caused for billions of people over thousands of years would they still write them?

    you think it's the books that cause this or are people hijacking of said books for their own agendas?

    Plus the wars/ attacks are rarely about religion itself , it's all a smokescreen, it always about power and religion is just a rallying cry to get followers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Sectarian conflicts are always never ending.

    All that changes is the balance of power.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The Islamic nutters do seem to be making some sort of point right now, is there some sort of anniversary to mark?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Hopefully the local authorities may get a lead on whoever ordered this atrocity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    More muslim extremists, quelle surprise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    religion isnt the problem and im a religious person ,the problem is people misinterpreting their own beliefs and taking things litterally


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭Terry1985


    More morality porn for AH...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I wish those men who years ago wrote the bible and the quaran could see the trouble their words have caused. If they could see the mayhem and murder and heartache they have caused for billions of people over thousands of years would they still write them?

    Well, when you taking into account of the amount of "shall be put to death for [whatever]" in them... I really doubt they'd care.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    religion isnt the problem and im a religious person ,the problem is people misinterpreting their own beliefs and taking things litterally

    No true Scotsman yadda yadda.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    horrific loss of life - thoughts with their families


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    the problem is people misinterpreting their own beliefs and taking things litterally
    I love how you managed to contradict yourself so neatly in a single sentence.

    "They shouldn't take things literally. Nor should they interpret things"

    You either take it literally or make up your own interpretation. The problem is that they don't take religious texts literally. If religious texts were taken literally, they would die quickly and go away as people realise that the text bears no resemblance to reality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    wprathead wrote: »
    horrific loss of life - thoughts with their families

    And being overshadowed by the tragic situation in Nairobi.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    i do not accept that religion is the fault,its human ignorance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    i do not accept that religion is the fault,its human ignorance

    To paraphrase,"All it takes for good men to do evil things, is religion"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,926 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And being overshadowed by the tragic situation in Nairobi.

    When it comes to which horrible incident gets more coverage, the one where gunmen are going around a shopping centre executing people is always going to get more than a suicide bomber.

    It doesn't come down to fatality rate but rather the one which is more uncommon will get more people tuning in/buying papers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    o1s1n wrote: »
    When it comes to which horrible incident gets more coverage, the one where gunmen are going around a shopping centre executing people is always going to get more than a suicide bomber.

    It doesn't come down to fatality rate but rather the one which is more uncommon will get more people tuning in/buying papers.

    Plus westerners killed in Nairobi.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    o1s1n wrote: »
    When it comes to which horrible incident gets more coverage, the one where gunmen are going around a shopping centre executing people is always going to get more than a suicide bomber.

    It doesn't come down to fatality rate but rather the one which is more uncommon will get more people tuning in/buying papers.
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Plus westerners killed in Nairobi.
    Yeah, it's a bit of both.
    When you see extremists blowing up their own countrymen, people obviously abhor it, but it's seen as an internal conflict, and war is ****. And it's probably a reprisal attack for something that had been done to the extremists.
    And you think, "Well I would never be there, I'm neither a local nor a member of that religion. That's the kind of thing that happens to other people".

    But then you have the thing in Kenya, which is a fairly discriminate attack on non-Muslims in a relatively westernised country in a non-sectarian setting. And you think, "I could be one of those people. I could foreseeably be on holidays in Kenya, just minding my own business shopping, and be killed by extremists". And people connect with that fear, and so it becomes more newsworthy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭meemeemee


    Perhaps there is such a thing as "News Fatigue". In the same way that murder has appeared to have become more commonplace, and less likely to capture the public's attention unless it is a child, an attractive young woman, a policeman or involving a level of drama and intriugue; similarly post Band Aid / Live Aid the images of African famine victims no longer seemed to shock, and charities found it harder to get people to donate, there are certain horrific stores which happen so often, and appear to be so commonplace that after the initial big coverage, the public almost become desensitized and no longer are shocked by such events that either the coverage of similar events falls further down the news agenda, until it is relegated to a news in brief, or the public tend to turn the page or not take too much interest.

    The bombings in Iraq with dozens killed, did used to attract greater coverage. But so many have happened that unless their is something "out of the ordinary" about them, such as the significance of a particular victim, or a particular location, they seem to pass the media by.

    In Pakistan the murder and persecution of Christians seems so regular that unless it is carnage on the level of what happened over the weekend, these incidents hardly make the news.

    I guess some people who don't like "offend others" might not like the link posted below, which is a chronological list of particular incidents, but it certainly gives food for thought. Given the alleged loss of life documented in certain events, I was amazed how little coverage I had seen of certain events. For example 161 people killed in Nigeria last week.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#attacks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    You have to wonder what the hell is wrong with the human race when we can inflict so much pain and suffering upon each other over what a 2000 year old book says.

    The way we are progressing I can imagine in another 2000 years (if we make it that far) it will be Harry Potter followers going toe to toe with the cult of Twilight all because cult of Potter killed Twilight's god in the 3rd book.
    2000 years ago, slavery, women property, constant tribal violence. By all accounts in another 2000 years we'll all be gandhi's. As science and understanding takes over people are getting much nicer to each other.
    bumper234 wrote: »
    I wish those men who years ago wrote the bible and the quaran could see the trouble their words have caused. If they could see the mayhem and murder and heartache they have caused for billions of people over thousands of years would they still write them?
    After the quran got spread initially there was a time of peace and learning brought on by that book. While we now live in a world where two religions are at loggerheads with each other, two sides is probably an improvement on hundreds of different cults that all hated each others believes. Isn't that an improvement?

    This is basic, ignorant, old school, tribal hatred using idealistic views to justify their actions. The only difference between this violence and what happened 2000 years ago is the weapons involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭meemeemee


    Two religions are NOT at loggerheads with each other. That sort of cultural relativism falls into the hands of some of the protagonists and they sympathisers.

    No, a worryingly large number of followers of ONE SPECIFIC RELIGION is very much at loggerheads with everybody and everything which is not their religion.

    The attitudes, the discrimination, the antagonism, the terrorism are pretty much the same in various hotspots all over the world, all that differs is the victims of this behavior. Christians in one place, Hindus in another, Bhuddists in another, Sihks in another, Jews in another, people of no particular religion but a certain lifestyle in another, and where there are no people of other religions, a massive amount of infighting between the two major flavours of that ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION.

    To suggest the problems we are seeing in Pakistan is two religions are at loggerheads with each other is really slanderous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    i do not accept that religion is the fault,its human ignorance

    Religion IS human ignorance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    meemeemee wrote: »
    Two religions are NOT at loggerheads with each other. That sort of cultural relativism falls into the hands of some of the protagonists and they sympathisers.

    No, a worryingly large number of followers of ONE SPECIFIC RELIGION is very much at loggerheads with everybody and everything which is not their religion.
    The attitudes, the discrimination, the antagonism, the terrorism are pretty much the same in various hotspots all over the world, all that differs is the victims of this behavior. Christians in one place, Hindus in another, Bhuddists in another, Sihks in another, Jews in another, people of no particular religion but a certain lifestyle in another, and where there are no people of other religions, a massive amount of infighting between the two major flavours of that ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION.
    .

    So Buddhist persecution of muslims in Burma, and Christians Muslims and (in the main) Hindu Tamils in Sria Lank don't go on?

    Hindus don't attack Christians and Muslims.....?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    meemeemee wrote: »
    No, a worryingly large number of followers of ONE SPECIFIC RELIGION is very much at loggerheads with everybody and everything which is not their religion.
    I'm sure that people in the middle east see this conflict as Christians from the west coming over to their land (again) and telling them what to do. It's not just a case of us going over there either, our culture is invading theirs and their fighting it. Just like the Irish Catholic establishment tried to fight off international influences invading Irish culture.

    The middle east is changing and that kind of change can cause turmoil.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭meemeemee


    The OP was clearly making a reference two the same two religions.

    All sorts of things happen in all sorts of places.

    But ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION seems to be statistically over represented in all sorts of activity in all sorts of parts of the world. There is something about this particular religion that seems to find it in conflict with every other religion, and no religion, and between sects, in a way that no other religion is. It could start a fight in an empty room.

    But carry on, maybe you have a nice anecdote about "The Crusades".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    meemeemee wrote: »
    But ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION seems to be statistically over represented in all sorts of activity in all sorts of parts of the world. There is something about this particular religion that seems to find it in conflict with every other religion, and no religion, and between sects, in a way that no other religion is. It could start a fight in an empty room.

    .

    You presented a list that details only "muslim" violence - hardly an unbiased look or means by which to make an informed decision.

    Secondly it includes incidents from the occupied territories, most of which are political in nature so it doesn't seem to be pushed about motivation, but whether or not muslims were involved (not to mention no links to sources).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    meemeemee wrote: »
    The OP was clearly making a reference two the same two religions.

    All sorts of things happen in all sorts of places.

    But ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION seems to be statistically over represented in all sorts of activity in all sorts of parts of the world. There is something about this particular religion that seems to find it in conflict with every other religion, and no religion, and between sects, in a way that no other religion is. It could start a fight in an empty room.

    But carry on, maybe you have a nice anecdote about "The Crusades".
    You don't have to look to the crusades, just look at Ireland in the fifties. Christians started two of the biggest wars in history killing millions. You could see WW2 as a religious war in some senses because the Nazi's wanted to go back to a pagan religion and rewrite history altogether.

    You can't expect these people to act any differently to the new global culture than we did. America and Europe had to be dragged into the modern world kicking and screaming. It's only through things like mass media and the internet that we've been able to educate ourselves enough to let go of religious superstitions. These are things these people are denied.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭meemeemee


    I provided a link to a site which details predominantly murder.

    Interestingly enough, the biggest Islamofacist terrorist atrocity of recent years happened in Nigeria last week, and neither RTE or or the major broadsheets reported on the Islamofacist terrorist group Boko Haram murdering 161 people. ( I don't know how this was political, as they stopped cars on a major road, so it was completely random ). Astoundingly, only the BBC, Reauters and Al Jazeera seem to have reported it. But it is a good example of how certain behavior has become so commonplace it hardly makes the news anymore.

    I also mentioned attitudes, the discrimination, the antagonism. These are harder to document. But I have seen plenty of examples first hand.

    I took issue with the poster suggesting TWO religions are at loggerheads, and I stand by it.

    I also stand by the fact that ONE PARTICULAR RELGION finds itself wildly statistically overrepresented in all sorts of inter community conflict, regardless of geographic location or the identity of the other parties.

    ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION seems to have a particular problem living in relative peace with others.


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