Illegal material on laptop that may be found by a repairman? Help please

PewPewPew

Basically my sister gave me her sons (my nephews) laptops because they were infected and not working or something because one of my friends is a repair tech and I said I'd have him take a look. Anyway earlier I left them with my friend and just about an hour ago my nephews were here and told me that they didn't know their mother had given them to me and that their was illegal material on the laptops. Both of them are over 18 and are worried what will happen if the material is found. What, if anything does the law say about illegal material found on a laptop by someone repairing it? one of my nephews is autistic and they made me say that they wouldn't be held accountable for what was found *basically saying the laptops were now my property and anything found on them won't be linked to them* What should I do? Will he have to report any illegal material he finds and is that verbal agreement between me and my nephews binding? I'm really confused here. I love my nephews but if they're doing something illegal I'd rather help than punish them. Please I need legal and moral advice!

Edit:
It's more than illegal downloads I know that much. They looked way too worried when they came to my door. I doubt it's kiddie porn but if it is or some other form of weird porn or something I'd rather get them into therapy or get them help than just have them locked up. Also I will be having a talk with my sister and brother in law about it.

michael999999

It depends, if they have just been downloading a few movies or albums I wouldn't worry about it.

If it involves kiddie porn or something like that, hopefully he reports them straight away. They can check when and from what ip address it was downloaded from, so it will be traced back to them.

Brego888

Most likely the repair man won't notice this content.
I'd be more concerned with speaking to your nephew about exactly what this content.
It could be anything from illegally downloaded music to kiddie porn and anything in between.
Then you can decide what to do next.

ScouseMouse

Isn't this what caught Gary Glitter?

The repairman called the police and the dirty fecker was caught red handed.

the world wonders

PewPewPew wrote: »

one of my nephews is autistic and they made me say that they wouldn't be held accountable for what was found *basically saying the laptops were now my property and anything found on them won't be linked to them*

What the hell? How old are you that you are getting pushed around by your autistic nephews?

is that verbal agreement between me and my nephews binding

of course not.

IrishEyes19

There's a huge difference between illegal porn and a few downloaded songs, Id be surprised if any laptop doesnt have downloaded songs.

if its a few songs.....the repair guy will fix the computer and charge you the bill. if its illegal porn, he has a duty to report it. and probably will.

First of all, its their laptop, so you arent responsible. But I think you need to sit these boys down and find out exactly whats on the laptop. Stop taking orders from your nephews pronto.

IrishEyes19

PewPewPew wrote: »

Basically my sister gave me her sons (my nephews) laptops because they were infected and not working or something because one of my friends is a repair tech and I said I'd have him take a look. Anyway earlier I left them with my friend and just about an hour ago my nephews were here and told me that they didn't know their mother had given them to me and that their was illegal material on the laptops. Both of them are over 18 and are worried what will happen if the material is found. What, if anything does the law say about illegal material found on a laptop by someone repairing it? one of my nephews is autistic and they made me say that they wouldn't be held accountable for what was found *basically saying the laptops were now my property and anything found on them won't be linked to them* What should I do? Will he have to report any illegal material he finds and is that verbal agreement between me and my nephews binding? I'm really confused here. I love my nephews but if they're doing something illegal I'd rather help than punish them. Please I need legal and moral advice!

Edit:
It's more than illegal downloads I know that much. They looked way too worried when they came to my door. I doubt it's kiddie porn but if it is or some other form of weird porn or something I'd rather get them into therapy or get them help than just have them locked up. Also I will be having a talk with my sister and brother in law about it.

Im slightly shocked that you are saying here that if is child porn, you'd rather get them into therapy......its a serious crime if it is and they should be punished. Now its probably not this, hopefully just some downloaded movies or songs. But have a look at your words and rethink it.

Rayne Wooney

I'm hoping it's just a few songs or tv show downloads, they're fine if that's all it is.

If it is what other posters have suggested, well then they have admitted they know the stuff on the laptop is wrong and illegal, what good is therapy going to do them? Maybe therapy would be an option if they were ignorant to why it was wrong and had to be shown the error of their ways, but they know it's wrong and still do it so therapy won't do them any good.

They're adults over the age of 18. They know the stuff is illegal/wrong. They're taking the risk anyway knowing this.

In front of a judge is the best place for people like that.

TommiesTank

PewPewPew wrote: »

Basically my sister gave me her sons (my nephews) laptops because they were infected and not working or something because one of my friends is a repair tech and I said I'd have him take a look. Anyway earlier I left them with my friend and just about an hour ago my nephews were here and told me that they didn't know their mother had given them to me and that their was illegal material on the laptops. Both of them are over 18 and are worried what will happen if the material is found. What, if anything does the law say about illegal material found on a laptop by someone repairing it? one of my nephews is autistic and they made me say that they wouldn't be held accountable for what was found *basically saying the laptops were now my property and anything found on them won't be linked to them* What should I do? Will he have to report any illegal material he finds and is that verbal agreement between me and my nephews binding? I'm really confused here. I love my nephews but if they're doing something illegal I'd rather help than punish them. Please I need legal and moral advice!

Edit:
It's more than illegal downloads I know that much. They looked way too worried when they came to my door. I doubt it's kiddie porn but if it is or some other form of weird porn or something I'd rather get them into therapy or get them help than just have them locked up. Also I will be having a talk with my sister and brother in law about it.

The choice of therapy or having hem locked up is not your call to make if that is scenario arose.

bezerk

If its your friend he is not going to contact the police and will say to it you if there is kiddie porn on it and let you deal with it.

I repaired numerous computers with downloaded games, music, and videos and no technician will report you for this. The gaurds wouldn't even give a ****, just give you a warning which will not matter.

If there is kiddie porn there internet service provider will track there web history and the garda forensics team will be able to trace where they downloaded it from. Don't be worrying.

GarIT

He is legally obliged to report anything he finds. So are you by the way, because you know about it and have not gone to the Gardai about it you could be charged for that if they were to be caught.

P_1

If it's not child porn then there's probably no need to report. I'm not sure what other kinds of porn are illegal in Ireland to be honest. Maybe it isn't even porn that they have on it, perhaps it drug related stuff or dodgy political stuff maybe?

Ken.

Personally I'd tell the friend and ask him to make a judgement call. If its bad call the cops. They know they've done something wrong and are now trying to fit you up like a kipper. Fück that. I'd be livid. They'd be lucky to get the laptop back from me no matter what.

Sulla Felix

P_1 wrote: »

If it's not child porn then there's probably no need to report. I'm not sure what other kinds of porn are illegal in Ireland to be honest. Maybe it isn't even porn that they have on it, perhaps it drug related stuff or dodgy political stuff maybe?

Bestiality porn probably is. I know renditions of children are illegal, there's a lot of Japanese hentai that would be illegal over here since it depicts minors, even if they're cartoons.

Could also be stuff from subversive websites, pretty easy to find stuff about improvised firearms/explosives etc that might be illegal here since we have pretty strict laws on that kind of thing. Might want to ask the shooting forum on that one, but afaik even stuff like gunsmiths manuals and teaching material are restricted.

hfallada

OP it's not your property. I can't see you getting charged. If they find illegal materials its up to the gardas to prove its yours. I imagine within a few mins of looking it, they will cope its not yours. I was told by IT expert once that the gardas need to view every image on the computers and grade the seriousness of each image.

Tbh OP don't lose any sweat. But seriously tell your nephews parents. Would you like someone you know, knowing that your son had that type of material on their computer

Rayne Wooney

bezerk wrote: »

I repaired numerous computers with downloaded games, music, and videos and no technician will report you for this. The gaurds wouldn't even give a ****, just give you a warning which will not matter.

Is that even illegal? I thought it was illegal to share it but not just having it on your computer. Could be wrong though

dan_ep82

As a general rule I stay away from personal files when fixing anyone's PC. If they ask me to move a particular file (or keep one after a re-install) I tell them I'll move the entire folder and they can pick whatever file they need and delete the rest. That way I don't come across any situation like the above.

As for what to do,it would depend on the content for me. First thing I'd do is find out what it is before getting in a flap over it especially if it could only be an illegal copy of Miley Cyrus's new song.

Royal Irish

dan_ep82 wrote: »

an illegal copy of Miley Cyrus's new song.

Lock em up.

GarIT

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Is that even illegal? I thought it was illegal to share it but not just having it on your computer. Could be wrong though

Being in possession of coyprighted material without the owners permission (paying for it) is illegal. That is a rumor started by idiots trying to defend piracy. Even watching a video on a website or a stream is illegal if it's copyrighted and the owner hasn't given you permission to watch it.

Rayne Wooney

GarIT wrote: »

Being in possession of coyprighted material without the owners permission (paying for it) is illegal. That is a rumor started by idiots trying to defend piracy. Even watching a video on a website or a stream is illegal if it's copyrighted and the owner hasn't given you permission to watch it.

Have you any link to this?

This is what I read which led me to believe that it's okay to have it.

Copyrights and Related Rights Act, 2000

45.—A person infringes the copyright in a work where he or she without the licence of the copyright owner—

(a) sells, rents or lends, or offers or exposes for sale, rental or loan,

(b) imports into the State, otherwise than for his or her private and domestic use,

(c) in the course of a business, trade or profession, has in his or her possession, custody or control, or makes available to the public, or

(d) otherwise than in the course of a business, trade or profession, makes available to the public to such an extent as to prejudice the interests of the owner of the copyright,

a copy of the work which is, and which he or she knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of the work.

No Pants

GarIT wrote: »

He is legally obliged to report anything he finds. So are you by the way, because you know about it and have not gone to the Gardai about it you could be charged for that if they were to be caught.

My reading of the OP is that he doesn't know what's on the laptop, nevermind the legal status of it.

GarIT

No Pants wrote: »

My reading of the OP is that he doesn't know what's on the laptop, nevermind the legal status of it.

In theory because he doesn't know what the material is he could get away with not reporting it. But if he were then to become aware of the material he would have to report it.

GarIT

About downloading being illegal. Both Emmet stagg and pat rabbite believer it to be illegal and I just took it to be true.

bezerk

I'd say nearly 100% of people have illegal content on their laptop, child porn is a different story

MouseTail

How old are your nephews? I would talk to them before bringing the laptop to your mate. They may think standard porn is illegal.

If there is some deviant stuff on there, you have a bigger decision to make, but as it stands, you may have people fretting over nothing.

TommiesTank

MouseTail wrote: »

How old are your nephews? I would talk to them before bringing the laptop to your mate. They may think standard porn is illegal.

If there is some deviant stuff on there, you have a bigger decision to make, but as it stands, you may have people fretting over nothing.

The friend already has the laptop I believe.

coylemj

GarIT wrote: »

In theory because he doesn't know what the material is he could get away with not reporting it.

'In theory' you say? That's an interesting theory but not grounded on any established legal principle.

According to you, if my neighbour's car is parked on the public road with an out of date tax disc, I can 'get away' with not reporting it as long as I don't look to see if he has a valid tax disc.

But if I do notice that his tax is out of date, am I obliged to report it and if so, exactly which law says that I must do so?

B.A._Baracus

Op,
As long as it's not under age, beastiality or snuff porn then everything should be ok. These are the biggest 3 flags for any repair guy. The first being the most obvious thing anyone with morals will report.

Don't worry about this whole "the onus is on you" .... Legally it aint your laptop nor did you use it.

GarIT

coylemj wrote: »

'In theory' you say? That's an interesting theory but not grounded on any established legal principle.

According to you, if my neighbour's car is parked on the public road with an out of date tax disc, I can 'get away' with not reporting it as long as I don't look to see if he has a valid tax disc.

If you dont know that he doesn't have tax then its not your problem. Due to a recent law change you have to report a crime if you know it happened. I think it has to be of a certain seriousness for it to apply though, and child porn is obviously very serious. Remember preists were going mad about having to tell the gardai if anything is said to them in confession?

BornToKill

Which 'law change' are you talking about? It would be helpful if you cited it and gave the context.

bezerk

GarIT wrote: »

If you dont know that he doesn't have tax then its not your problem. Due to a recent law change you have to report a crime if you know it happened. I think it has to be of a certain seriousness for it to apply though, and child porn is obviously very serious. Remember preists were going mad about having to tell the gardai if anything is said to them in confession?

There's no law on that unless someones commits a murder or rape and likely to do it again as far as I am aware

Nonoperational

Moral high ground aside, the only thing that could cause hassle here is under-age porn. If that is the case, then I don't envy the position you are in... It's probably not though.

mathepac

I have to say OP you and the sister have adopted a very high-handed approach in your dealings with adult family members. Neither of you seems to have had the cop-on to seek the permission of the two lads before passing their laptops through Mammy's hands, your hands and on to a 4th party. What were ye thinking? "Oh sure they're technically adults, but we'll run their lives for them anyway. Lucky them!"

Bepolite

This is going to a real anti-climax (no pun intended) if this just turns out to be two girls one cup. FBI viruses don't generally do damage to the PC, they're much happier sitting there in the background sending your IP and MAC addresses. If you've a proper virus thats damaged the machine it's more likely just some rather unsavory porn.

Repairman will definitely find it. First thing we used to do to every machine that came into the repair bay was search *.jpg, *.mpg (this was many years ago). My favourite one was a guy dropping his machine in to be 'repaired', when asked what was wrong with it he replied, "nothing" and when pressed said he was decorating and didn't want it to get damaged, despite he'd only brought in the tower and not the monitor etc. Techy opened it up to find a big bar of hash in the case, funnily enough I don't think that got reported!

Worse case scenario and there is underage porn; a proper investigation will be done into it. It's not difficult to establish what someone has been up to on the internet.

discus

Bepolite wrote: »

Repairman will definitely find it. First thing we used to do to every machine that came into the repair bay was search *.jpg, *.mpg (this was many years ago).

You're joking right? You would just delve into peoples personal folders, at first chance?

Bepolite

discus wrote: »

You're joking right? You would just delve into peoples personal folders, at first chance?

Nope, pretty much every machine that goes into a repair bay, that's what happens to it. I could make the excuse I was young or that the machines should have been wiped before coming in to is etc but frankly I'm not that bothered about it.

subrosa

GarIT: If you dont know that he doesn't have tax then its not your problem. Due to a recent law change you have to report a crime if you know it happened. I think it has to be of a certain seriousness for it to apply though, and child porn is obviously very serious. Remember preists were going mad about having to tell the gardai if anything is said to them in confession?

bezerk wrote: »

There's no law on that unless someones commits a murder or rape and likely to do it again as far as I am aware

The Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012 provides that a person must contact the police if they believe that an offence has been committed against a child and have information which could assist the Garda Síochána. The penalty for not doing so my be as high as ten years.

This legislation was aimed at those with more direct knowledge of a particular child having been put in harms way. However, since section 4 of the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act 1998 (allowing child to be used for child pornography) is scheduled under the 2012 Act, it would be inadvisable for anyone who found child pornography on a laptop to take a chance in not reporting it. The existence of the material would obliviously disclose that an offence has been committed and the material could well be of use to the Gardai.

If any event there was the old common law offence of imprison of felony.

Pro Hoc Vice

subrosa wrote: »

The Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012 provides that a person must contact the police if they believe that an offence has been committed against a child and have information which could assist the Garda Síochána. The penalty for not doing so my be as high as ten years.

This legislation was aimed at those with more direct knowledge of a particular child having been put in harms way. However, since section 4 of the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act 1998 (allowing child to be used for child pornography) is scheduled under the 2012 Act, it would be inadvisable for anyone who found child pornography on a laptop to take a chance in not reporting it. The existence of the material would obliviously disclose that an offence has been committed and the material could well be of use to the Gardai.

If any event there was the old common law offence of imprison of felony.

Misprision of felony, was abolished in 1997, by the Criminal Law Act. That same act, brought in penalties for assisting offenders and concealing offences, but it was required that the person either does a positive act to impede the investigation, or gets some reward to not tell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0007.html#sec7

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0008.html#sec8

subrosa

infosys wrote: »

Misprision of felony, was abolished in 1997, by the Criminal Law Act. That same act, brought in penalties for assisting offenders and concealing offences, but it was required that the person either does a positive act to impede the investigation, or gets some reward to not tell.

You're right. Apologies - I should have mentioned that.

It was the same act that did away with the distinction between felony and misdemeanour.