Racing next year

joey100

Bit different than other threads asking about how to get into racing and if I would be able for it, I've decided I will be doing a bit of racing next year. Joined my local club at the start of the year and didn't do a whole lot with them if I'm honest but will be heading back out with them soon and looking at getting a licence for racing next year.

The only thing that scares me about the races is, what seems like the high number of crashes. Because I'm a bit soft and don't fancy doing a race that might end my season early I'm looking for recommendations for races that aren't as busy or a hilly course that spreads out the pack a bit. From looking online the St Tiernan's race held recently would be one I would be looking at doing. Any other recommend races?

seamus

Crits, hill climbs and TTs will very rarely involve crashes.

A crit is where you ride around a track or circuit a number of times, most Dublin club leagues use Corkagh Park for their crits, but I don't know if many of the open races are crits.

fondriest

The Des Hanlon and Cycling pursuits gp are two early season races with a lot of hills. The bunch usually gets small pretty quickly.

Beasty

I would recommend starting off at Club League level if that's feasible. One of the things that bugs me though is that people who want to start out racing only have the option of open races early on in the season, as club leagues can only really start when the light nights arrive in April (they can only be run between Monday and Thursday under CI rules - that even applies to Corkagh Park which bugs me even more - a great facility that can only be used between April and early September for 4 nights a week for club racing!)

smurphy29

Cycleways Cup, Jim Jazzer Wherity and Stamullen GP are three other hilly early season races which thin out the bunch. Newbridge GP is another.

I found A4 got a lot safer after the cutoff for single-day licences, before for some reason that I can't really explain, getting much more dangerous in the last few races of the season, with some really messy finishes.

Most (but not all) crashes happen in the final sprint and you can always duck out of this and roll over the line if you're feeling nervous, but if you're going to do this don't be at the front before deciding to sit up, that's the most dangerous thing of all!

And needless to say, lots of group riding training over the winter so you can handle your bike properly is absolutely essential.

dermo1990

Cannot recommend the Jim Jazzer Wherity race enough. Was the first race I've ever done, and the route was appropriately sadistic to the point where it made for a brilliant day of raciing. IIRC, the peloton was broken up on the second lap? But there was a hilly race down in Bunclody (can't for the life of me remember the name) and of course the Stamullen GP that were rather safe mainly due to their hilly nature...

But, I would agree that the A4 races have been getting progressively more dangerous around late July/early August region, possibly that races around this time follow more flat courses so the bunch doesn't really break up as much as one would like..

richieg

How would you go about preparing for racing next year transitioning from club rider?
Which are better to start of with, Frits, road races?
How would you go,about getting a training plan etc?

cantalach

seamus wrote: »

Crits, hill climbs and TTs will very rarely involve crashes.

Crits rarely involve crashes??? With the constant breaking hard into corners and then accelerating like mad out of them, I can think of no road discipline more crash-prone than crit racing!

Mechanic365

Another thing to note here is that if you feel nervous in a group my advice would be pick some dry days and go out to attack the corners on your own and keep your hands off the brakes where you would normally tap them inadvertantly (in bends and behind riders), this way you learn to AVOID and not get tied up in incidents, back wheels, other riders.

One thing i was thought by racers in my club is on dry roads to THROW the bike into the corners and just dont think about it but in the wet we all have to exercise caution or go to hospital.

Im doing the sane nxt season and i did sone Club League races this year. Its not as hard or scary as it looks, its a mental barrier more than anything. Like rallying or quads etc. a person must be mentally suited to the task.

ROK ON

cantalach wrote: »

Crits rarely involve crashes??? With the constant breaking hard into corners and then accelerating like mad out of them, I can think of no road discipline more crash-prone than crit racing!

Our club ran a league this year that had I think 8 crits as part of a 20 series race season. It is the one referred to by Seamus above.

Tight highly technical course on smooth blacktop. High speed.
I made it to six of those races and two were in horrendous rain.
I saw no crashes whatsoever.

I accept what you are saying but in my limited experience it made for relatively safe racing. Corkagh Park btw. It's a great facility.

niceonetom

ROK ON wrote: »

Our club ran a league this year that had I think 8 crits as part of a 20 series race season. It is the one referred to by Seamus above.

Tight highly technical course on smooth blacktop. High speed.
I made it to six of those races and two were in horrendous rain.
I saw no crashes whatsoever.

I accept what you are saying but in my limited experience it made for relatively safe racing. Corkagh Park btw. It's a great facility.

Corkagh Park races aren't really crits as most people would know them - perfect grippy tarmac, no paint, manhole covers, dodgy cambers - not even anywhere brakes are properly necessary (and consequently none of the sprinting out of dead corners that define most crits). Proper crits are crashy. You have to be very stupid (or be the victim of someone very stupid) to wipe out at Corkagh.

Realistically, if you really don't want to crash don't race. TTs only. Because in bunch racing, while there's lots you can do to reduce your odds of crashing in any given race, if you long enough it's a question of when not if you go down.

Make peace with that, don't think about it too much and get up the road.

mirrormatrix

I have to be honest, i'm with the OP on this one. And not just from a safety perspective. Personally I can't afford to be repairing/replacing a bike unnecessarily and comments like "oh, you just have to accept that this is a part of road racing" really don't give me any enthusiasm for racing here at any level.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to race in Ireland and have been mulling over the idea of entering the A4 category here next year, but with the virtual certainty (according to these boards) of ending up in a crash at some point in the season, combined with the fact that I can't afford to shell out any money on my bike next year, I really have to wonder what's the point of it all?

Why does road racing inherently have to involve crashes? Surely there is something that can be done within the sport to reduce the incidence of this?

I think it's TT's all the way for me until I start hearing less about crashes in A4 races on these type of sites...

ROK ON

I dont think you understand risk.
Every activity has some level of risk - to do these activities you must accept those risks.
In boxing you will get hit, in rugby you will get tackled. In skiing and cycling you can expect to go fast and maybe at some stage fall off - either due to yourself or the actions of others.
I fully accept what you are saying - there are some people that would love to race but cannot afford the consequences of being injured due tonwork or other commitments.
You could do TTs where the risk of crashing is less, but that's about it really. The risk of crashing also exists in sportifs/club rides etc.
It's jut the way it is.

Hmmzis

If crashing is your primary concern then a club league is your best bet. You'll have TTs, road races, crits and a hill climb or two. Much smaller fields than in A4 and the vast majority are very familiar with riding safely in a bunch. Even the hairiest finish sprint in a club league crit won't come close to the havoc that plays out in an A4 bunch gallop to the line.

Ah, and stay away from the early season handicapped races, they're just mental when the A1/A2s catch up. If you do decide to go anyway then the bast place to be is in a break up front or at least in the front 10 riders or so (it's easier said than done though).

Also, the suggestions above about hillier races is spot on, in the Des Hanlon this year there was no bunch left to speak of when the lads went for the line.

Harrybelafonte

If you're really that worried about crashing just don't race. Don't do sportives and don't commute. There's a risk of crashing in all those activities. Whether it's a fear of personal injury or financial cost, the fear is valid, but it shouldn't stop you from taking on the challenge.

The worst crash I have seen yet was in the Wicklow 200. I've managed to avoid any of the crashes on the track (one involved someone breaking both wrists) and on the road. Had a close call on a sportive and crashed twice while commuting and have crashed a few times in my youth. The images we conjure in our minds of crashes are worse than the crashes themselves.

cantalach

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I would love to race in Ireland and have been mulling over the idea of entering the A4 category here next year, but with the virtual certainty (according to these boards) of ending up in a crash at some point in the season [...]

It's not a virtual certainty. I've just finished my first season racing in which I did nine open races and a lot of league races too. No crashes. I don't think I was just lucky because most of the other A4/A3 guys I've gotten to know during the year didn't crash either. Yes, it's dangerous...but it's not that dangerous.

lizzylad84

Perhaps slightly off topic but would I be at a disadvantage racing at club league level on a trek alumium frame bike? Also do you necicessarly 'need' aero type wheels to race, currently got Mavis kysium's

ratracer

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Perhaps slightly off topic but would I be at a disadvantage racing at club league level on a trek alumium frame bike? Also do you necicessarly 'need' aero type wheels to race, currently got Mavis kysium's

Not referring to you specifically lizzylad, (more to myself actually) but some years ago a lad said to me 'i'd prefer to be good on a sh1t bike than sh1t on a good bike' and I think its a quote I always remember when folks talk about having to have all the bling all the time.:)

lizzylad84

Excellent outlook ratratracer!!!!

DirkVoodoo

A great cyclist once said:

"If I was worried about crashing, I'd never get on a bike"

Or something to that effect. Oh wait, that was Lance Armstrong.

Well, you get the point.

You can do plenty of practice in the off season on your bike handling. Other than that, stay up the front to avoid crashes and try not to sprint for 26th place at the end of the race.

no1murray

Its easy to to avoid crashes. Attack from the gun.

cantalach

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Perhaps slightly off topic but would I be at a disadvantage racing at club league level on a trek alumium frame bike? Also do you necicessarly 'need' aero type wheels to race, currently got Mavis kysium's

Alu frame is just fine. As are non-aero wheels. Oh and anyone who says you can't race with a compact crankset is full of it.

lizzylad84

cantalach wrote: »

Alu frame is just fine. As are non-aero wheels. Oh and anyone who says you can't race with a compact crankset is full of it.

but what about the dreaded ultra heavyweight tiagra groupset?!?!?

no1murray

The bike is grand. Just get out and race. Go out with a club. You will get plenty of advice even if you dont ask for it.

mirrormatrix

cantalach wrote: »

It's not a virtual certainty. I've just finished my first season racing in which I did nine open races and a lot of league races too. No crashes. I don't think I was just lucky because most of the other A4/A3 guys I've gotten to know during the year didn't crash either. Yes, it's dangerous...but it's not that dangerous.

Cheers cantalach. The impression I had of A4 racing when making the initial post (largely based on what I had read in various posts on this site) is that there is a crash of some form or another in just about every open race. If that is not the case, I would be much more likely to get involved.

I'm not a member of any club, and really have no idea of what goes on in these races other than what I have heard second hand. I probably should give it a try before judging I guess

cantalach

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Cheers cantalach. The impression I had of A4 racing when making the initial post (largely based on what I had read in various posts on this site) is that there is a crash of some form or another in just about every open race.

Oh just to clarify, there have been crashes in every open race I did...but they only affected 1-3 riders. I didn't experience any finish line mass pile-ups.

Chips Lovell

I used to play rugby before I took up cycling.

My injury to participation rate was vastly, vastly higher in rugby than with cycling. Yes, there is a good chance you'll go down in a race at some point, but there are few sports that are risk free.

on_the_nickel

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

My injury to participation rate was vastly, vastly higher in rugby than with cycling.

Isn't that mostly due to the "crazy banter" the goys get up to post-match? :P

Chips Lovell

daragh_

This was my first year racing. I did A4 and Club League.

Crashed once in the Club League. Was on my own having been dropped and took a corner way too fast in an effort to catch up. Soft landing in a ditch. My fault for being an eejit. I don't think we had any major crashes in the league and the whole thing felt very safe.

I saw 2 crashes in A4. One from 3 bikes back which was easy enough to avoid. The second was two weeks ago. Near the finish someone decided to sprint past me for 40th place, knocked me with a shoulder or bar and threw me off balance.

Nothing I could do to avoid that one TBH. You can do everything by the book but still be at the mercy of someone else's impulsive decision. I think that's the risk you take.

I'm down the cost of the bike (waiting to see what I can salvage) and recovering from the usual roadrash plus a fractured collarbone and finger.

Things you can to mitigate the pain - as noted above, ride at the front as much as you can or are able.

Don't take part in big bunch sprints unless you are well positioned, strong enough to be able to maintain your position and don't feckin' move from the line you have chosen.

Or avoid the races where they are likely - that's my plan for next year.

Insure your bike (this is the big one for me - should have got the finger out and done it ages ago). Bulk buy Tegaderm.

For what its worth my first thought after crashing was 'that wasn't so bad, wonder if I can get the bike across the line'. I really didn't feel any pain at that stage.

Having an understanding other half who doesn't mind picking bits of tarmac out of your back also helps.

That said I had a blast this year and crashing hasn't put me off racing at all.

joey100

Thanks for all the replies lads. Some good advice there, will keep an eye out for some of the races mentioned and try get involved in the club league too.

inc21

Going to do few races next year myself. I promise I'll do my best not to die or kill anybody!

bogmanfan

Like a few others on here, it's the crashes that put me off racing. I train with our club's 'racing' group and this season has seen several of our members involved in crashes during open races. The injury toll includes 1 broken finger, 1 broken thumb, 1 broken collarbone, 2 broken femurs (different incidents) as well as several crashes that didn't result in breaks, but plenty of bruising/road rash. While crashes can happen in sportives or training spins, they do seem to be far more common in racing. For me, I like riding my bike, and a crash could mean being off my bike for a few weeks or months. So it's not worth the risk.

smurphy29

bogmanfan wrote: »

Like a few others on here, it's the crashes that put me off racing. I train with our club's 'racing' group and this season has seen several of our members involved in crashes during open races. The injury toll includes 1 broken finger, 1 broken thumb, 1 broken collarbone, 2 broken femurs (different incidents) as well as several crashes that didn't result in breaks, but plenty of bruising/road rash. While crashes can happen in sportives or training spins, they do seem to be far more common in racing. For me, I like riding my bike, and a crash could mean being off my bike for a few weeks or months. So it's not worth the risk.

I guess it's just question of different people's risk aversion levels, but I will say that racing is hugely addictive (even A4 with all its flaws!) and if you do give it a go I'd say you'd struggle to go back to non-competitive riding.

inc21

Like a few others on here, it's the crashes that put me off racing.

No offence here but that seems to be a part of any sport. F1, rally, GAA, soccer crashes and injuries everywhere.

You can ride your bike leisurely down the road and some idiot will crash in to you.

U can play chess and get a stroke...

What i'm saying is that there is no safe sport out there and if you are not able to take the risk maybe it is better to not participate at all.

bogmanfan

While crashes and injuries are part and parcel of any sport, it seems strange to compare a leisurely cycle down the road to a bunch sprint at the end of a race. Or would you suggest that each carries an equal level of risk?
I come from a rugby background, and know all about injuries including broken bones. However, for me, road racing carries an unacceptable level of risk. Training spins and sportives, in my experience, rarely involve collisions or crashes. As such, they are where I prefer to do my cycling. Your experience may differ.

inc21 wrote: »

No offence here but that seems to be a part of any sport. F1, rally, GAA, soccer crashes and injuries everywhere.

You can ride your bike leisurely down the road and some idiot will crash in to you.

U can play chess and get a stroke...

What i'm saying is that there is no safe sport out there and if you are not able to take the risk maybe it is better to not participate at all.

inc21

bogmanfan wrote: »

While crashes and injuries are part and parcel of any sport, it seems strange to compare a leisurely cycle down the road to a bunch sprint at the end of a race. Or would you suggest that each carries an equal level of risk?
I come from a rugby background, and know all about injuries including broken bones. However, for me, road racing carries an unacceptable level of risk. Training spins and sportives, in my experience, rarely involve collisions or crashes. As such, they are where I prefer to do my cycling. Your experience may differ.

Sorry my bad.
Should have mentioned that there is a risk of injuries in most activities.

Not have raced myself yet but will def. do it next year. Would have tried few but no point to buy the CI licence at the end of the season. Only back on the bike since July.

Reading stories like Daragh_ at C2D or yours in the above post have not but me off at all.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger or something similar....

maloner

Wrapped up my first season racing in Charleville a few weeks back and loved it all. Had thought about racing last year but didn't for the same reasons as above - fear of crashing. I joined a club (Tiernans) and got over that fear and took the plunge. Most of my racing this year was the inter club league as well as a few open races and a few stage races. To be honest, if all I was able to do was the club league, I'd probably be happy. The numbers in each group in our league were rarely over 25 I think. They'd swell in a handicap and everyone came together, but in general this year I don't think there were any serious crashes but I could be wrong.

TT's are probably safer but shouldn't be thought of totally safe.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/de-weert-seriously-injured-in-vuelta-time-trial-crash

Any time on a bike that you push yourself to your limits you or others around you are more likely make mistakes.

So, first season and no spills to speak of while racing. Only fall (so far...) this calendar year was a fall on ice in January that I guess I got away likely on.

Few physio trips and a new frame (free replacement thankfully...) and there wasn't another bike in sight.

Harrybelafonte

Your risk aversion is stronger than your desire to race. In other words, you're really not interested enough in racing. Just don't do it.