DIY Rain Water Harvesting pump question

azul

I'd love to set up a cheap rain water harvesting system using a 1000L IBC tank (€60) I'll run the gutter down pipe straight into the IBC tank with an overflow pipe going into the existing gully. The plan is to pump the water up to the water tank in the attic with 1/2 Hydrodare (the house is a bungalow)

My question is this: Can I use a standard inline Grundfos circulation pump, €60 approx. reduced down to 1/2" with an inline pressure sensor (no idea how much) to do this instead of one of those expensive submersible pumps with an inbuilt pressure sensor, approx. €500
If this is feasible then what pressure sensor should I use and where should it be placed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

scudo2

azul wrote: »

I'd love to set up a cheap rain water harvesting system using a 1000L IBC tank (€60) I'll run the gutter down pipe straight into the IBC tank with an overflow pipe going into the existing gully. The plan is to pump the water up to the water tank in the attic with 1/2 Hydrodare (the house is a bungalow)

My question is this: Can I use a standard inline Grundfos circulation pump, €60 approx. reduced down to 1/2" with an inline pressure sensor (no idea how much) to do this instead of one of those expensive submersible pumps with an inbuilt pressure sensor, approx. €500
If this is feasible then what pressure sensor should I use and where should it be placed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I done the same thing when we had flooding in Cork city a few years ago resulting in no water for three weeks. Gutters into water tanks. B&Q submersible pump for €60-00 connected to my garden tap out the back pumping back up to my storage tanks. Plenty of showers, baths and washing machine once it rained once and again, plenty of water even from drissel.
Not for drinking though without UV filter protection.
Great job while everybody else qued up in car park at water tanker with there buckets for three weeks.




Bet you'll get some negative replys to this but I couldn't care less. It worked for me and my family at the time.
None of us died or got skin cancer !

paddy147

scudo2 wrote: »

I done the same thing when we had flooding in Cork city a few years ago resulting in no water for three weeks. Gutters into water tanks. B&Q submersible pump for €60-00 connected to my garden tap out the back pumping back up to my storage tanks. Plenty of showers, baths and washing machine once it rained once and again, plenty of water even from drissel.
Not for drinking though without UV filter protection.
Great job while everybody else qued up in car park at water tanker with there buckets for three weeks.




Bet you'll get some negative replys to this but I couldn't care less. It worked for me and my family.

The water still needs filtration and also UV sterilization for showering/bathing purposes.

oikster

shane0007 wrote: »

Scudo, you really need to have a look at yourself. I thought you are a professional person. Nobody is out to get you. It is more like you are out to get yourself. So can we please go back to your normal self & desist from these childish "woe is me" replies.

I don't think Scudo is the one with the problem here. This is the second thread where he has related a story,be it right or wrong that is all he has done and you have slated him for it.God forbid if you ever become a moderator.;)

Billy Bunting

oikster wrote: »

This is the second thread where he has related a story,be it right or wrong that is all he has done and you have slated him for it.

And on an Public Forum incorrect, dangerous or misleading information should be corrected for obvious reasons, If i am wrong i'm open to correction and thankful for it, there is no shame in learning.

dathi

i have ibc connected to one of those garden pumps lydl sell that come complete with hose and pressure switch for about 80 euro use it for watering garden havent had a problem with it

oikster

Billy Bunting wrote: »

And on an Public Forum incorrect, dangerous or misleading information should be corrected for obvious reasons, If i am wrong i'm open to correction and thankful for it, there is no shame in learning.

The poster in question is being slated not corrected.

oikster

If that's what you think then everything's just fine then.:rolleyes:

corkgsxr

OP does need to know that showering with suspect water is highly dangerous as the fine mist you get when showering is perfect for absorbing bacteria into your lungs

corkgsxr

Would a ibc sitting outside be a risk of legionella. Easy to see it above 20 degrees on a sunny day

paddy147

I dont know how in gods holy name my post slates anyone.

All I did was post some simple yet very important info....thats all.

paddy147

corkgsxr wrote: »

Would a ibc sitting outside be a risk of legionella. Easy to see it above 20 degrees on a sunny day

It would need to be covered in heavy duty black polythene sheeting/membrane or else burried underground.


I still wouldnt put one underground,,,as they aint meant for that.

corkgsxr

paddy147 wrote: »

It would need to be covered in heavy duty black polythene sheeting/membrane or else burried underground.


I still wouldnt put one underground,,,as they aint meant for that.

Underground would be the one alright. French drain underneath. Concrete the sides.

Id still only use the water for toilets myself

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

Apologies Paddy. You have not slated anybody. I just meant exactly as I said, you have done research with many suppliers/specialists in RWH. I was just asking for your input as to what you were told by the professionals in this field with regard to health & safety & uses. This was to assist the OP, nothing more.
In other words, would it be advisable to take the advice of Scudo's post as he has done in his own home or to take the advise of the other posts or neither?

Ah no worries......Thanks Shane.........you certainly know your stuff swell.:)

I will be visiting another rainwater harvesting company next week and will be having a "chat" with them.;):)

azul

Thanks everyone for your informative replies. I hadn't thought about UV filtering and potential problems with bacteria. Duh!! I'm sure it's not that difficult to overcome. I think when the new water charges come in you'll see a lot more interest in this subject. Farmers are already setting up their own very basic systems as they will be paying huge bills when the inevitable happens.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

Apologies Paddy. You have not slated anybody. I just meant exactly as I said, you have done research with many suppliers/specialists in RWH. I was just asking for your input as to what you were told by the professionals in this field with regard to health & safety & uses. This was to assist the OP, nothing more.
In other words, would it be advisable to take the advice of Scudo's post as he has done in his own home or to take the advise of the other posts or neither?

My reply like others I've made reciently was to tell my own persional experence.

We had no water for three weeks, we had no idea when it would be back on.
What I did was a tempory measure. Air temp was 7-10 degrees MAX that Nov-Dec.
We didn't know how long we would have no water. Everyday the local radio station said two more days !

As far as I'm concerned my home made fix worked and was a good idea for my house. Were still alive and well but thanks for asking.

It was a lot safer and cleaner than all those wells with untested water that has all kinds of sewarage leaking into them + small furry animals falling into them from badly covered tops.

Again I only told my story.
And to OP + recomended UV system.

ps. Where is the rule and proof that its only professional plumbers are giving advice here.?
Jack The Ripper could be giving advice for all we know !

oikster

Jack The Ripper could be giving advice for all we know ![/QUOTE]


Naw! He was a plasterer.:D

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

The point that you are missing here is that not everybody is waiting for some issue to be resolved, water to be turned back on, no fuel to burn, in some land that is under siege or whatever. The OP just asked a simple question about using rainwater to supply his cwst.
Based on that simple information, we must as proclaimed professionals offering advice, must assume that the OP is not near death's door with their last drop of H2O about to run out. We must also assume that they may potentially be looking to hook up said system without proven professional on-site advice in that particular field.

So my point is, from an advisory point of view, we must act & air on the side of caution & safety. We must include within that advice what are the particular safety precautions to concentrate on & if they are omitted, what are the potential risks attached to that omition.

It's easy to say that it will be grand as I have done it before with no apparent issues, but what if you are wrong? What if you gave that scenario to a different family & God forbid, a serious illness developed? Would you feel the same again about giving advice so easily?
Why is such a big deal, without being hard done by, to sensible safe advice? It's very similar to "hanging a boiler on the wall & if the light comes on it's a good 'un as I've always done them that way & never had an issue before". Sorry but those days are gone, thankfully.

Op asked about cheap options and advice which he took on and he also replied to and also said thanks about the UV and filter advice.
I just told him my story.

This is boards. Its free and informal advice. As I've said, Jack The Ripper could be giving advice for all we know.

Its not like paying a barrester €5000-00 a day for advice.



As you have already used these letters today I'll reuse them FFS

Billy Bunting

oikster wrote: »

The poster in question is being slated not corrected.

You obviously have problems with perception.

scudo2 wrote: »

Where is the rule and proof that its only professional plumbers are giving advice here.?
Jack The Ripper could be giving advice for all we know !

If Jack gives his advice and it stands up then fine but if its incorrect or lacking substance then there is always a Professional or someone here in the know to add to the content, that's what happens here.

scudo2 wrote: »

Op asked about cheap options and advice which he took on and he also replied to and also said thanks about the UV and filter advice.

Your UV filter advice was for the drinking water only, that was corrected.

Are you honestly saying that if you read a post that you know to be dangerous you would not correct it ? get real!

oikster

Billy Bunting wrote: »

You obviously have problems with perception.


Thought that I had run away did you.I never run away from a post. When I see a problem I tackle the problem to the best of my ability. I don't ask for photographs and then ignore the OP. I don't sit back and let a fellow professional struggle when I know I can help out and above all I do not cross examine an OP or a fellow poster like he is something I stepped in in the street. If you call how you treated Scudo proper conduct among professionals then I think the perception problems lie elsewhere.

Billy Bunting

oikster wrote: »

Thought that I had run away did you.I never run away from a post. When I see a problem I tackle the problem to the best of my ability. I don't ask for photographs and then ignore the OP. I don't sit back and let a fellow professional struggle when I know I can help out and above all I do not cross examine an OP or a fellow poster like he is something I stepped in in the street. If you call how you treated Scudo proper conduct among professionals then I think the perception problems lie elsewhere.

Nope!! you defo have a problem there.

Tell me! when you "help out", would that include correcting, adding information and fact, or just slating.

I've had enough of this tosh, i'm running. :eek:

oikster

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Nope!! you defo have a problem there.

Tell me! when you "help out", would that include correcting, adding information and fact, or just slating.

I've had enough of this tosh, i'm running. :eek:

A few more bits of "tosh" for you to mull over. Why did the poster feel that he had to explain that he was relating a tale? Nobody else seemed to think that he was offering hard facts advice.Why did an unknown number of posters PM the poster later with the reason given that they felt that they could not post openly? Answers on a postcard from wherever you've run off to.

oikster

shane0007 wrote: »

Oikster, you have made an accusation which I have repeatedly asked you to quote such posts that slate Scudo. You now say that you do not run from posts. So perhaps you could now post the quotes.

If advice is given, it should be professional from a professional advice & not amateur advice. Scudo has always been seen as a professional here & treated accordingly. If said professional comes out with utter amateur advice, he will then be treated so, but still with respect.
So for the final time, can you please back up your accusation?

Plumbing & Heating Forum in Boards, I would like to think, has become a valuable centre for excellent advice for the general public given by experienced professionals. It has become this because it has earned this reputation. If Scudo or anybody else gives advice that could be potentially harmful safety wise, health wise or otherwise, there are enough people here to correct that advise. Perhaps if you feel the advice should be more lax or DIY based, there is a designated DIY forum for that content. The OP sought professional advice by asking here I'm afraid.

What exactly do you mean by "the final time". Whats next .

oikster

Bye:)

scudo2

Your UV filter advice was for the drinking water only, that was corrected.

Are you honestly saying that if you read a post that you know to be dangerous you would not correct it ? get real![/quote]




I'm delighted that my reply on UV was improved on and the orignal poster took it up and thanked us for.and I also thank for better friendly input from others.

Rather than the usual reply of OMG

Now I can see why some of the lads prefer to stay in the backround and only use PMs

Again I believe I have done nothing wrong.

If Jack The Ripper poesing as "Best Plumber in the World" on Boards.ie said light a fire under a gas tank do you really think somebody would?

Again this is not a barrester on €5k a day giving advice. It a discussion board.
Where people do not even go by there real name for Peets sake.

In my first ever post I gave out my website and contact details. That was before I found out nobody has to do that. It was just to let you know I was above board.

I never started out thinking that my simple DIY job/story would lead to all this crap. There is something badly wrong here where people cannot have a polite debate and feel intimidated if they freely voice there opinion.

(Not my words by the way.)



Back to PMs now. By by.

azul

From what I'm gathering, some of you guys are professionals? am I right? If so could you please stop arguing about silly stuff and get back to my original question. Is it possible to pump the rain water up into the attic without splashing out on an expensive pump set up. I think the whole area of sterilization and UV should be kept to a separate topic. Thanks in advance.

scudo2

azul wrote: »

From what I'm gathering, some of you guys are professionals? am I right? If so could you please stop arguing about silly stuff and get back to my original question. Is it possible to pump the rain water up into the attic without splashing out on an expensive pump set up. I think the whole area of sterilization and UV should be kept to a separate topic. Thanks in advance.

Sorry for all the crap Azul.

Answer is a simple YES

But you have to treat / clean UV the water before it enters the house.
Look up local water filtration Co. in the golden pages, or ask local plumber.

A lot of good ideas between all this nonsence if you look.

Sorry again about all the crap just because I told you my story.

All the best.
PM me if you need to.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Sorry for all the crap Azul.

Answer is a simple YES

But you have to treat / clean UV the water before it enters the house.
Look up local water filtration Co. in the golden pages, or ask local plumber.

A lot of good ideas between all this nonsence if you look.

Sorry again about all the crap just because I told you my story.

All the best.
PM me if you need to.

As for the word
PROFESSIONAL
That's open to debate................. !!
Lets not start all that again.





Hope nobody replys please.

Banbh

Sailing boats use rain or dodgy supplies in different ports for all their needs. You can buy sterilising tablets in chemists or ships chandlers and pop a couple into the IBC tank (which should be protected from sunlight). This will make the water suitable for showering etc. The kitchen tap would require UV or other purification method but you could get by with boiling it and keeping a large jug of boiled water on the sink for drinking. It would be wise to put a jug of the boiled stuff in the bathroom for brushing teeth as well.

With occasional droughts of up to five weeks in Ireland, it would be very difficult to have sufficient storage to turn off the mains supply completely.

paddy147

Banbh wrote: »

Sailing boats use rain or dodgy supplies in different ports for all their needs. You can buy sterilising tablets in chemists or ships chandlers and pop a couple into the IBC tank (which should be protected from sunlight). This will make the water suitable for showering etc. The kitchen tap would require UV or other purification method but you could get by with boiling it and keeping a large jug of boiled water on the sink for drinking. It would be wise to put a jug of the boiled stuff in the bathroom for brushing teeth as well.

With occasional droughts of up to five weeks in Ireland, it would be very difficult to have sufficient storage to turn off the mains supply completely.

You would need one of these bad boys installed undereground or a similar sized plastic tank above ground to do it...9000 litre tank....and you probably would still be relying on some mains water use too.

Banbh

I think the figure from Uisce Eireann is 150 liters per person per day. If so, a family of four would use 4,200 liters a week.

We have dry periods of four weeks in Ireland (I had five weeks last spring) so a family of four would need a tank of 16,800 if they wanted to keep using at the same rate.

Unless my figures are way off, I can't see it being possible to off-mains, though you could certainly make sure that you don't give a cent to rip-off Ireland's latest scheme.

paddy147

Banbh wrote: »

I think the figure from Uisce Eireann is 150 liters per person per day. If so, a family of four would use 4,200 liters a week.

We have dry periods of four weeks in Ireland (I had five weeks last spring) so a family of four would need a tank of 16,800 if they wanted to keep using at the same rate.

Unless my figures are way off, I can't see it being possible to off-mains, though you could certainly make sure that you don't give a cent to rip-off Ireland's latest scheme.

Yep,you would be right.....so my famly would get around 2.5-3 weeks max out of that 9000 litre tank.....by using it carefully and being responsible about water usage.

paddy147

Anyway...............Im kinda taking away from the OPs post.....


Appoligies


Best Regards.

Dtp1979

OP i had the exact same idea as yourself only I was gonna use 2 ibc tanks. Leave the mains to the kitchen sink and bathroom where i brush my teeth. Everything else would be pumped to the attic from ibc tanks ( with a mains filler in the attic for back up of course ). I was gonna treat the water with filters and uv but the one main concern I have, as was pointed out to me in another thread, is that rain water is acidic. I asked myself would I bathe a baby in this water..... And the answer is no I wouldn't. So With regret i scrapped the idea.

gifted

Dtp1979 wrote: »

OP i had the exact same idea as yourself only I was gonna use 2 ibc tanks. Leave the mains to the kitchen sink and bathroom where i brush my teeth. Everything else would be pumped to the attic from ibc tanks ( with a mains filler in the attic for back up of course ). I was gonna treat the water with filters and uv but the one main concern I have, as was pointed out to me in another thread, is that rain water is acidic. I asked myself would I bathe a baby in this water..... And the answer is no I wouldn't. So With regret i scrapped the idea.

I have the same idea myself but i'm gonna get the water tested first before I start, i presume if it's low level then it can be treated?

Dtp1979

gifted wrote: »

I have the same idea myself but i'm gonna get the water tested first before I start, i presume if it's low level then it can be treated?

That's the thing I don't think it can. Plus rain water will change acidity

dathi

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That's the thing I don't think it can. Plus rain water will change acidity

how about adding crushed oyster shells to your water storage tank? this is what koi fish keepers do for there ponds to reduce acidity . the shells buffer the water by dissolving in acid water but once the ph is neutral they stop dissolving

Banbh

I'd like to see some evidence that we have acid rain in Ireland before it would bother me.
Our prevailing wind is from the west and nearly all our rain comes in from the Atlantic. I suspect, unless someone has evidence to the contrary, that it is pretty pure. Any problem with rain-water comes in its harvesting and storage.

Dtp1979

Banbh wrote: »

I'd like to see some evidence that we have acid rain in Ireland before it would bother me.
Our prevailing wind is from the west and nearly all our rain comes in from the Atlantic. I suspect, unless someone has evidence to the contrary, that it is pretty pure. Any problem with rain-water comes in its harvesting and storage.

Buy a ph tester like I did. I got varying results. As in one week the water is 7.0 the next week is 6.0 then 6.5.

scudo2

Banbh wrote: »

I'd like to see some evidence that we have acid rain in Ireland before it would bother me.
Our prevailing wind is from the west and nearly all our rain comes in from the Atlantic. I suspect, unless someone has evidence to the contrary, that it is pretty pure. Any problem with rain-water comes in its harvesting and storage.

I was always curious about that one too. I was told in school that 99% of our rain comes from the Azores, mid Atlantic and tropical storms causing convection producing our rain clouds which do not cross industrialised air space or mix with contamineted clouds that have travled over Europe.
Told that the rain is the cleanest and purest type of water avaible. ?

azul

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Buy a ph tester like I did. I got varying results. As in one week the water is 7.0 the next week is 6.0 then 6.5.

Can you elaborate on this please. One point difference seems like a small amount. What is a safe ph level?

Billy Bunting

Just to add further discussion to this i think you need to remember that the use of rain water in a IBC tank above ground will also inevitably bring with it the problem of Algae and the problems that come with that.

azul

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Just to add further discussion to this i think you need to remember that the use of rain water in a IBC tank above ground will also inevitably bring with it the problem of Algae and the problems that come with that.

I don't think that's a big problem. Just black out the tanks with a coat of dark paint or silage wrap.

paddy147

azul wrote: »

I don't think that's a big problem. Just black out the tanks with a coat of dark paint or silage wrap.

Might be of some use to you......

Dtp1979

azul wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this please. One point difference seems like a small amount. What is a safe ph level?

7.0 the water is neutral. I wouldn't go below 6.5. I'm a plumber by trade. A few weeks ago I was at a house. The well water had made the copper so soft you could literally squeeze 1/2 with your hand. I tested the water and it was 6.0. Image showering in that for a few year....

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

7.0 the water is neutral. I wouldn't go below 6.5. I'm a plumber by trade. A few weeks ago I was at a house. The well water had made the copper so soft you could literally squeeze 1/2 with your hand. I tested the water and it was 6.0. Image showering in that for a few year....

Try testing pure rain water in a plastic container and let us know how you got on and what the results were over time, thanks MD

gifted

Might try that in y own house, any idea where I can get a PH tester kit?

scudo2

gifted wrote: »

Might try that in y own house, any idea where I can get a PH tester kit?

Pet shop that does fish has them.




I'm sure there are other suppliers and test gear that costs thousands out there!

Banbh

Rain is not neutral on the acid/alkaline scale as it naturally contains CO2 gas which is acidic. It is probably a couple of points below 7 but this is perfectly okay. An apple, for example is a 3.

Rainwater would want to be down to an acid reading of 5 or below to be classified as acid rain.

That's why those of us who use our pure rainwater instead of the bleached stuff from the council always have shining hair.

gifted

scudo2 wrote: »

Pet shop that does fish.

Good man, you do realise that I'm looking at me goldfish now and checking him for strange growths (just ****ed him into the bowl a year ago without a water test )

scudo2

gifted wrote: »

Good man, you do realise that I'm looking at me goldfish now and checking him for strange growths (just ****ed him into the bowl a year ago without a water test )

Not recomendind it for humans but the stitter the water the better for my fish !
Hate changeing it as once they all died over night after a change. Cork county council you murderers !!!



Haven't a clue what the ph. was.