Irish Tap Water - What's in it?

Hatfry

Hey there, anyone and web resources on Irish tap water and the chemicals used in it? Finding it hard to research online. I'm in swords btw if that helps. Cheers.

ninebeanrows

It tastes rank whatever's in it.

Hatfry

Weathercheck wrote: »

It tastes rank whatever's in it.

Indeed it does! Can't find info on whether fluorine or chlorine are still in the water supply, any ideas?

elperello

Definitely fluoride.
www.fluoridefreewater.ie/‎

Hatfry

elperello wrote: »

Definitely fluoride.
www.fluoridefreewater.ie/‎;

Link won't work man, cheers though!

elperello

Sorry

Try this -

http://www.irelandagainstfluoridation.org/

Esel

Hatfry wrote: »

Link won't work man, cheers though!

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/

Don't buy it, though.

Chancer3001

Treated with uv rays as well as far as I know. To kill bacteria.

There's probably some poo in the water. Varying levels depending on where in the country you are.

RidleyRider

Is a purifier realistic to have? I feel they're going to keep adding ****e to our water.

cormie

My friend feels really strongly against them putting fluoride in our water. To be honest from what I've heard from him, it does sound like there's more reason for them not to put it in. I still drink tap water as I always have, mine doesn't taste so rank where I am thankfully, but to play it safe, would it be a good idea to invest in some kind of filtration/purifcation system I wonder? They have a Reverse Osmosis thing in a cafe up the road from me and say it pretty much gets rid of everything. I think they are around €600, could be worth it for a life long source of cleaner water?

conzy

Its funny how people are so upset about fluoride in the water when it is added in much smaller quantities than:

chlorine (kills bacteria)
sulphuric acid (reduces PH)
soda ash / lime (increases PH)
alum (coagulation)

Irish drinking water is perfectly safe to drink, many lab rats around the country are constantly monitoring it and adjusting the chemical dosing to produce the safest cleanest water possible.

Go to LIDL and fill the boot if you don't like the taste of your local water, but there are absolutely no risks associated with drinking your local tap water.

Whey Protein on the other hand, thats steroids

/rant

cormie

Surely it would be better to just have pure water without all the added ****e. They say pesticides are harmless to humans too and there's no need for organic fruit and veg but given the choice, I'm going organic even if it's costing more. These things haven't really been around long enough to be certain of the long term implications so I might invest a bit just for peace of mind with the water too?

Chancer3001

You can't "just have the water"

Not feasible to collect enough rainwater.

So they take water from lots of sources.

Obviously untreated river water etc isn't always safe.

corkgsxr

Whats in it. Everything basically.

Fluoride and chlorine are used.

You know every few weeks you get a strong chlorine smell off the water? Thats the bacteria count gone too high so they send high levels of chlorine to kill off some.



Used to work for a water filter company

cormie

Oh yeah it makes sense they'd have to do something to the water in a treatment system, but once it comes from my tap and if I'll be drinking it, would surely better to have the pure schtuff

Chancer3001

Yeah absolutely. Filtration is the way t go. Expensive though

cormie

Does reverse osmosis remove everything yeah or is there any better/cheaper methods that would give purified water as a result?

corkgsxr

cormie wrote: »

Does reverse osmosis remove everything yeah or is there any better/cheaper methods that would give purified water as a result?

Osmosis strips everything.

Theres nothing better but is dear to maintain. Up to 160 a year


How filtered you want to go is up to you

cabb8ge

conzy wrote: »

,,,,,,
Whey Protein on the other hand, thats steroids

/rant

Steroid? whey?

Is that factual truth or opinion?

RO water taste terrible by the way.
and RO not remove everything, if it did RO water could be used for injection purposes

corkgsxr

cabb8ge wrote: »

Steroid? whey?

Is that factual truth or opinion?

RO water taste terrible by the way.
and RO not remove everything, if it did RO water could be used for injection purposes

What doesn't it remove



For domestic purposes its as close as you can get

conzy

cabb8ge wrote: »

Steroid? whey?

Is that factual truth or opinion?

RO water taste terrible by the way.
and RO not remove everything, if it did RO water could be used for injection purposes

I was just being sarcastic mentioning another sensationalist opinion

eviltimeban

Could the same question be asked of bottled water? Like, if you are buying a cheap brand, 2L bottle of water for 55c, is that going to be totally pure water? It tastes better for sure... but that doesn't mean there's nothing in it.

doccy

Coca Cola sold glorified tap water a few years ago. I've always been suspicious of cheap bottled water anyway ... filtered through Volcanic what now.

Esel

Perrier ftw.

JJayoo

conzy wrote: »

Its funny how people are so upset about fluoride in the water when it is added in much smaller quantities than:

chlorine (kills bacteria)
sulphuric acid (reduces PH)
soda ash / lime (increases PH)
alum (coagulation)

Can you clue me in on the benefits of ingesting fluoride?

Chancer3001

Good for your teeth apparently

http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4058



The United States Public Health Service estimates that every dollar spent fluoridating water saves fifty dollars in dental expenses.

JJayoo

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Good for your teeth apparently

http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4058



The United States Public Health Service estimates that every dollar spent fluoridating water saves fifty dollars in dental expenses.

Fluoride is good for your teeth in the same way that mouthwash is good for your teeth i.e when it is in contact. As soon as you swallow the water, the fluoride has zero benefit for your teeth. This is a fact.

The republic of Ireland is the only country in Europe that adds Fluoride to its drinking water. In Spain and the UK Fluoride is added to 10% of the drinking water.

It costs 4-5 million to add fluoride to Irish water.

There was a study in 2001 (Luke 2001,Fluoride Deposition in the Aged Human Pineal Gland ) which showed that fluoride accumulates in the Pineal Gland. This was the first time that fluoride was proven to accumulate in the pineal gland.

The pineal gland is located in the brain but it is outside the Blood Brain Barrier. The study didn't show that there was any negative effect from the fluoride accumulation as that wasn't its function but it was strongly recommended that fluorides affect on Pineal Gland function should be studies and it never was. Not a single study into any possible issues with Fluoride accumulating in huge amounts in your fecking brain.

cormie

That sounds dodgy! So suggestions on water purifications anyone? Reverse osmosis or what?

JCabot

I looked into this some years ago loosing both parents. I felt there may be a link between drinking chemical substances in water even in small doses which is a poison and illness. I found the links between hexafluorosilicic acid and illness to be conviencing enough for me to want it removed. I don't believe the effects on the body to me immediate but more accumulative and not really evident for years.

There is an environmental scientist in cork call Declan Waugh who compiled recent comprehensive report on this, and from I have seen of this if even a small percentage of what he is saying is true it certaintly is enough to question this pratice of adding fluoride to our water.

The only way to remove it is with a distiller or a Ro unit costing about 200/300 euros

Peregrinus

You can buy distilled water in any supermarket. That's as pure as you're going to get without setting up your own still. It tastes . . . bland.

Water from any other source you can think of has stuff in it. Even rainwater. What's in your tap water is monitored and controlled - maybe more effectively, maybe less effectively, but at least an effort is made, and a responsibility is accepted, for ensuring that it is safe to drink.

Yes, you can spend considerable amounts of money to filter the water that comes out of your tap before you drink it. Or you could set up system to distill the water that comes out of your tap before you drink it, which is probably more effective than filtration. And of course you can steam-clean all the containers in which you propose to store water, or from which you propose to drink it. Mostly, though, the help benefits of doing so are marginal, if not neglible. For that expenditure of money and effort you can probably do other things that will have greater health benefits

Corkbah

Peregrinus wrote: »

You can buy distilled water in any supermarket. That's as pure as you're going to get without setting up your own still. It tastes . . . bland.

Water from any other source you can think of has stuff in it. Even rainwater. What's in your tap water is monitored and controlled - maybe more effectively, maybe less effectively, but at least an effort is made, and a responsibility is accepted, for ensuring that it is safe to drink.

Yes, you can spend considerable amounts of money to filter the water that comes out of your tap before you drink it. Or you could set up system to distill the water that comes out of your tap before you drink it, which is probably more effective than filtration. And of course you can steam-clean all the containers in which you propose to store water, or from which you propose to drink it. Mostly, though, the help benefits of doing so are marginal, if not neglible. For that expenditure of money and effort you can probably do other things that will have greater health benefits

but is it a case of that the effects are not noticed until a number of years - in which case the costs involved may be prohibitive or they may very well be worth it - the problem is there are too many other variables in our lives to say whether this would be worth doing ?

you could argue that we currently have people living in their 80/90's and some actually reach the 100+ mark, and they've all drank Irish Water ...but then you could also say that over the last 20+ years technology has advanced so much that what is in the water now (or simply our lifestyles now) ...will contribute to a lesser lifespan - so many unnatural chemicals in our bodies combined with increased stresses of work etc etc.

Peregrinus

Corkbah wrote: »

but is it a case of that the effects are not noticed until a number of years - in which case the costs involved may be prohibitive or they may very well be worth it - the problem is there are too many other variables in our lives to say whether this would be worth doing?

Hm. I'm not convinced. After all, there have been plenty of long-term studies of the effects of, e.g, water fluoridation. It's not beyond the bounds of possiblity for researchers to look at a group of long-term filter-users and compare health outcomes for them with outcomes for a control group who drink unfiltered water.

Not to prejudge the outcome of such a study, but I do see one problem with the idea that filtration delivers health benefits by excluding toxins or other harmful impurities, and it's this; only a proportion of the water you ingest comes from your own tap.

Ever have a pint? It was mostly water, and not from your tap. Ever buy a tea or a coffee? Same deal. Ever eat out? Much of that food was cooked in water not from your tap, or water not from your tap was an ingredient. Ever eat or drink at a friend's house? Ever buy, and use in your own home, sauces, liquid stocks, beer, milk . . . ?

You see where I'm going with this? If whatever is in your tap water is harmful, it's harmful whether you get it from your own tap or from some other source. So if you want to exclude it from your diet, it's not enough to filter your own tap water; you'll need to live a near hermit-like existence.

Now, obviously you can reduce your exposure to the stuff by filtering your own tap water, but I suspect not by merely as much as most of us might assume.

Chancer3001

Jjayoo did you even read the link?


Finally, in 1931, it was determined that naturally occurring fluoride in the local drinking water was responsible for both the discoloration and the lack of decay. Texas and Colorado had extremely high levels of natural fluoride, causing the discoloration, a condition now known as dental fluorosis, which is harmless if a tad unattractive. Years of research and testing in different cities and states, conducted by the National Health Service, determined that one part per million was the ideal proportion, giving the same protection from decay, and avoiding the dental fluorosis. Ever since then, it has been the standard practice to regulate fluoride levels in municipal water supplies to one part per million. There has been broad scientific and medical consensus for decades that one part per million of fluoride is best for health, and exactly zero rigorously conducted scientific trials that have indicated any sign of danger. For all practical purposes, it is an over-and-done-with issue.

circadian

corkgsxr wrote: »

Osmosis strips everything.

Theres nothing better but is dear to maintain. Up to 160 a year


How filtered you want to go is up to you

Stripping everything out of water is no good thing. Removing essential minerals and salts will inhibit the bodys ability to hydrate.

cormie

circadian wrote: »

Stripping everything out of water is no good thing. Removing essential minerals and salts will inhibit the bodys ability to hydrate.

I did hear it removes all the good minerals too. What would you suggest so for the most convenient source of clean water? Tap water to me is the leading in convenience and convenience is the leading option for me at the moment but it'd be nice to know it didn't have a lot of chemicals added to it.

I drink a lot of tap water. I don't drink pints or milk or buy in things like ice cream etc, in fact I make a lot of that kind of thing myself, with tap water so some kind of filtration would be worth it for me I think. 2/300 is definitely affordable in this case.

circadian

I'd use a Britta filter but im short on space and not massively concerned with what's in the water supply.

Solid block carbon filters are probably your best bet and would be within that price range.

cormie

Thanks for that, would they get rid of the flouride and that too? I'm renting so not willing to do any structural work but again convenience is king so I wouldn't want to have to wait for ages before I can take a drink/make a smoothie if I haven't pre filtered and put some in the fridge for later and stuff.

darjeeling

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ever have a pint? It was mostly water, and not from your tap. Ever buy a tea or a coffee? Same deal.

And, what's more, anyone who drinks tea is getting an extra dose of fluoride in that, with much higher doses from cheaper tea blends that are made from more mature leaves, according to a very recent UK study (link). Levels of fluoride in brewed tea from teabags were up to ten times the permitted level in Irish tap water, which puts things into perspective.

JJayoo

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Jjayoo did you even read the link?


Finally, in 1931, it was determined that naturally occurring fluoride in the local drinking water was responsible for both the discoloration and the lack of decay. Texas and Colorado had extremely high levels of natural fluoride, causing the discoloration, a condition now known as dental fluorosis, which is harmless if a tad unattractive. Years of research and testing in different cities and states, conducted by the National Health Service, determined that one part per million was the ideal proportion, giving the same protection from decay, and avoiding the dental fluorosis. Ever since then, it has been the standard practice to regulate fluoride levels in municipal water supplies to one part per million. There has been broad scientific and medical consensus for decades that one part per million of fluoride is best for health, and exactly zero rigorously conducted scientific trials that have indicated any sign of danger. For all practical purposes, it is an over-and-done-with issue.

Chancer did you read my posts? as I have already said fluoride in water works only when it is in physical contact with your teeth. Once you swallow it the fluoride has zero benefit. Once it enters your blood stream it offers zero benefit.

If people are going to talk about Fluoride in water can we please talk about the situation in Europe instead of the American model. the reason i say this is because in the states the addition of Fluoride to drinking water is a 500million dollar industry (cost of actually adding it to the water) and it also offers the fertilizer companies an easy day to dump Fluoride. So like everything money talks and the fertilizer companies would be strongly opposed to stopping the addition of Fluoride to drinking water.

Fluoride is not added to drinking water in Northern Ireland so you would imagine there would be a stark difference in dental health between the republic and the north but there is no evidence to support this, the only documented difference is that fluorosis is 3-4 times higher in Children under 12 down south.

Most other countries stopped adding fluoride to drinking water in the 60's/70's and now we are the only country that adds Fluoride to all drinking water.

Will this stop me from drinking tap water? nope the alternative is too expensive.

JJayoo

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4058

"You'll also hear the claim that fluoridation has been banned in Europe. This is also completely untrue. In Europe it's more common to fluoridate salt instead of water, thus bringing the same benefits via a different delivery method. As long as you don't look at that fact, the anti-fluoridation people can truthfully say that "Europe rejects fluoridation of water.""

So lets look at this statement. The argument by pro -fluoride is that Europeans don't drink tap water so adding fluoride to tap water is not an efficient way to deliver Fluoride to the public. Now this statement is kinda true if you look at large modern cities but the important thing to remember is that The European countries in question stopped adding Fluoride to drinking water in the 60's/70's. So to suggest that in the 60's/70's people in European countries had access to alternatives to tap water is just a fabrication.

In Europe Fluoride is added to some milk and salt but this is done by the manufactures and not by any government. Manufactures can add fluoride to their products and list the product as containing Fluoride. No government in Europe supports the addition of fluoride to salt and milk like the article suggests.

I would have no problem with following the European model by letting some companies add fluroide to their products giving people a choice. It would also save 4-5 million a year.

JCabot

People talk about some filtration methods removing the good minerals from water but this is totally wrong. Mainly because many people do not understand that minerals in food are different to minerals in water. Water contains what is known as inorganic minerals which can not be absorbed by the body and in fact often stored because of this thus causing other issues. Foods contain organic minerals which are carbon based and can be absorbed. Anther fact is minerals absorbed from soil into water differ from location to location so the water in cork has different inorganic minerals to Dublin minerals.

Fluoridated water is medicated water and to be medicated by a state is certainly questionable especially since other products also contain fluoride so you can be getting it from water,toothpaste, milk in fact most processed food stuff so what exactly is the amount we are consuming daily.

The sad thing about this is that the Irish state have an expert body to advise them on fluoridation and this body is made mainly of dentist. Why is there no toxicologist or environment scientist on this body. Also ths body gives there time apparently free however they submit a hefty bill to the goverment and if they were to rule fluoridation is no longer required would lose out themselves because one would longer be required.

Hatfry

Watched a documentary the other night on Netflix called "Dying to Know" and in it they claim fluorine is the most chemically active element known to man and therefore reacts in so many chemical reactions in the body studies would take generations before they know exactly what impact it has on humans.

They also claim it was used by the nazis in WW2, they were using it in the concentration camps as it was know by scientists at the time that people who ingest fluorine compounds are easily "controlled". Obviously we should take anything in a documentary with a pinch of salt but it was so fitting I made a few quick googles on the subject and the internet seems to confirm there is some truth to this. Since Sweden outlawed fluorine c. 2000 for these and many other reasons along with many other EU countries I really wonder why it is still fed to us here in Ireland.

Another point they made was that chlorine was used in WW1 as a poison but yet we feed it in small doses to the masses.

Hatfry

JCabot wrote: »

Fluoridated water is medicated water and to be medicated by a state is certainly questionable especially since other products also contain fluoride so you can be getting it from water,toothpaste, milk in fact most processed food stuff so what exactly is the amount we are consuming daily.

I'd love to know exactly how much fluorine someone who drinks unfiltered tap water, brushes their teeth with fluoridated toothpaste and eats stuff containing it regularly, is taking in each day. I'd also love to know what levels we start to see poisoning.

JCabot

For about 60 years we have added 100s of millions of gallons of fluoride to our water supply. Then you must also consider what effects this is having on our marine life because eventually all water returns to the sea. If you were to consider the effect of releasing 100s of millions of gallons of a toxin into the sea it would be a major environmental issue but apparently it is ok over a long peroid of time. Madness.

cowzerp

Flouride is Poison and studies show it doesn't even improve Dental health, This is well known and the Government just accept that we should use it without any studies into it

It's a disgrace and not necessary, Actually studies show that it causes more fluoridation in people

http://www.naturalnews.com/035753_fluoride_chemistry_health_effects.html

There is tons of science showing this but the Government just turn a blind eye

I'm pretty sure there is a lady taking them to court over this issue

JJayoo

It really surprises me that Ireland continues to spend 4-5 million a year on adding fluoride. I wonder if you followed that 4-5 million euros would you find the real reason that it is still being added. Someone has a nice contract to supply this crap.

cormie

Any links to a good product to buy to clean the tap water so?

cowzerp

http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com/

sea_monkey

JCabot wrote: »

People talk about some filtration methods removing the good minerals from water but this is totally wrong. Mainly because many people do not understand that minerals in food are different to minerals in water. Water contains what is known as inorganic minerals which can not be absorbed by the body and in fact often stored because of this thus causing other issues. Foods contain organic minerals which are carbon based and can be absorbed. Anther fact is minerals absorbed from soil into water differ from location to location so the water in cork has different inorganic minerals to Dublin minerals.

Fluoridated water is medicated water and to be medicated by a state is certainly questionable especially since other products also contain fluoride so you can be getting it from water,toothpaste, milk in fact most processed food stuff so what exactly is the amount we are consuming daily.

The sad thing about this is that the Irish state have an expert body to advise them on fluoridation and this body is made mainly of dentist. Why is there no toxicologist or environment scientist on this body. Also ths body gives there time apparently free however they submit a hefty bill to the goverment and if they were to rule fluoridation is no longer required would lose out themselves because one would longer be required.

this is just.....all sorts of wrong. minerals that are composed of carbon??
How can a mineral be composed of carbon? do you know what a mineral is?

can i have a link to this expert body that doesnt get paid?

JJayoo

There was a recent report on dental health in children in the Republic (fluoride added to water) and in the North( fluoride not added). It found zero difference between the two groups except for a much higher amount of fluorosis in the south.

Although there was no benefit shown in the actual stats there was a small section addressing the addition of Fluoride to water and it was praised for being of huge benefit to dental health. I found it very strange.

the world wonders

The anti-fluoride cranks are out in full force in this thread I see.

For everyone else who doesn't want to take their scientific information from youtube, the Wikipedia article is a good starting point with plenty of links to actual peer-reviewed scientific papers.