No more fire-arms training for armed gardai....

paddy147

....thanks to the budget cuts and lack of money.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-firearms-training-cancelled-due-to-cutbacks-29584501.html


So is Mr Shatter now putting lives at serious risk??

phasers

Could the lads who are already trained not just train the new guys? Or like give them an xbox and a few hours on Halo?

Temptamperu

The police are being hamstrung by budgets while the criminals rake in the money day in day out. Its a joke.

TommiesTank

paddy147 wrote: »

....thanks to the budget cuts and lack of money.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-firearms-training-cancelled-due-to-cutbacks-29584501.html


So is Mr Shatter now putting lives at serious risk??

He has a set budget, what should he do instead? Cut salaries? Chip in the money himself? Make a bunch of them redundant?

paddy147

TommiesTank wrote: »

He has a set budget, what should he do instead? Cut salaries? Chip in the money himself? Make a bunch of them redundant?

Stop taking the pi55 and cutting back on vital things like this.

Funny how Mr Sahtter had the fella who robbed his house up in court so fast and jailed up real quick too....:rolleyes:

28064212

Oh FFS

FIREARMS training for garda anti-terrorist officers

One section of a department in the garda force had their arms training cut for the rest of this year. In case you hadn't noticed, there's less than 4 months left in the year

TommiesTank

paddy147 wrote: »

Stop taking the pi55 and cutting back on vital things like this.

Funny how Mr Sahtter had the fella who robbed his house up in court so fast and jailed up real quick too....:rolleyes:

It's always back to the personal jibes. Anything more constructive to add?

tayto lover

Maybe a few less junkets for St. Patrick's Day could have saved enough money to pay for the training and the cuts to SNA's.

paddy147

28064212 wrote: »

Oh FFS


One section of a department in the garda force had their arms training cut for the rest of this year. In case you hadn't noticed, there's less than 4 months left in the year

Ah sure thats grand so,who needs training then.............hope we dont have any more armed sieges or any more shootings where innocent people are set upon and killed.



Sure it will be grand.......:pac:

Banjo String

Talking of fire arms.

I remember a poor lad spillin a bit of petrol over the sleeves of his jacket one night in a Topaz. Poor sod ended up trying to light a smoke about 5secs later, setting himself on flames.

Next thing I know armed gards surrounded the place, guns drawn.

Turns out the manager called 999 and reported an hysterical man in the forecourt with an armalite.


Be gentle

paddy147

TommiesTank wrote: »

It's always back to the personal jibes. Anything more constructive to add?

Personal jibe???



Its the fcuking cold hard truth......incase you hadnt noticed.


We cant have a justice minister being robbed and the thief left to roam the streets or wait for ages to go before the courts,no can we??:rolleyes:

Frosty McSnowballs

paddy147 wrote: »

Stop taking the pi55 and cutting back on vital things like this.

Funny how Mr Sahtter had the fella who robbed his house up in court so fast and jailed up real quick too....:rolleyes:

The article suggest that the subsistence travel and overtime allowance budget has run out of the SDU's account.

The usually fire on military ranges, so paying for the use of ranges should not be an issue.

The solution is to abolish overtime and sub allowance.

If they want to train people, they CAN train people. They just won't do it because they are not getting paid extra to do it.

Frosty McSnowballs

paddy147 wrote: »

Personal jibe???

Its the fcuking cold hard truth......incase you hadnt noticed.

We cant have a justice minister being robbed and the thief left to roam the streets or wait for ages to go before the courts,no can we??:rolleyes:

What the hell are you talking about now? Derailing your own thread!

TommiesTank

paddy147 wrote: »

Personal jibe???



Its the fcuking cold hard truth......incase you hadnt noticed.


We cant have a justice minister being robbed and the thief left to roam the streets or wait for ages to go before the courts,no can we??:rolleyes:

So are you saying Shatter was involved in it or not? Either way it is irrelevant.

tayto lover

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

The article suggest that the subsistence travel and overtime allowance budget has run out of the SDU's account.

The usually fire on military ranges, so paying for the use of ranges should not be an issue.

The solution is to abolish overtime and sub allowance.

If they want to train people, they CAN train people. They just won't do it because they are not getting paid extra to do it.

That's a fair auld jump there.
Have you any proof of that?
I always said that if people are paid a fair wage i.e. enough for their needs then they should refuse to work overtime. I wonder if the garda refused to work overtime could the force function?

TommiesTank

Usual scaremongering.

token101

paddy147 wrote: »

Ah sure thats grand so,who needs training then.............hope we dont have any more armed sieges or any more shootings where innocent people are set upon and killed.



Sure it will be grand.......:pac:

They are hardly going to forget every single thing they've learned in four months now are they? They only train four times a year anyway? So they've cut one session basically? What a non story!

And ****ing hell, 're-sume'? Christ the Indo's cutting back too I'd say

TommiesTank

They'll be selling the guns to pay the mortgage or put food on the table next, right OP?

Frosty McSnowballs

tayto lover wrote: »

That's a fair auld jump there.
Have you any proof of that?
I always said that if people are paid a fair wage i.e. enough for their needs then they should refuse to work overtime. I wonder if the garda refused to work overtime could the force function?

Yes, from the article itself....did you not read it?

"But sources have revealed that the firearms training unit has no money to run any more courses."

"It is understood garda management cut back on subsistence and overtime allowances paid to training specialists for travelling to military ranges around the country used by gardai for gun practice"

The above quotes mean they have run out of money to pay officers EXTRA for travel sub and overtime allowance to instructors.

paddy147

TommiesTank wrote: »

They'll be selling the guns to pay the mortgage or put food on the table next, right OP?

or even crack open nuts.........who knows???

tayto lover

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yes, from the article itself....did you not read it?

"But sources have revealed that the firearms training unit has no money to run any more courses."

"It is understood garda management cut back on subsistence and overtime allowances paid to training specialists for travelling to military ranges around the country used by gardai for gun practice"

The above quotes mean they have run out of money to pay officers EXTRA for travel sub and overtime allowance to instructors.

And why ???
Because the budget has been cut.
It should not be cut as this type of training is very important.
Very little cuts to ministers or politicians seemingly as they could spend so much keeping the Dail bar going until 5 a.m. not too long ago.

Frosty McSnowballs

tayto lover wrote: »

And why ???
Because the budget has been cut.
It should not be cut as this type of training is very important.
Very little cuts to ministers or politicians seemingly as they could spend so much keeping the Dail bar going until 5 a.m. not too long ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Minister this Minister that. we can argue the comparisons all week long.

The simple fact is. They can still go to the range and train but they won't go because they are not getting overtime allowance.

If it is that important....then they would do it irrespective of overtime allowance.

NuckingFacker

Point, squint, squeeze, bang. FFS, it's not that hard to shoot a gun. How much training do they need? They never get to use the bleedin things anyway.

Grandeeod

token101 wrote: »

They are hardly going to forget every single thing they've learned in four months now are they? They only train four times a year anyway? So they've cut one session basically? What a non story!

And ****ing hell, 're-sume'? Christ the Indo's cutting back too I'd say

Nah! The Indos just firing journos that cross the police line.:D

TommiesTank

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Minister this Minister that. we can argue the comparisons all week long.

The simple fact is. They can still go to the range and train but they won't go because they are not getting overtime allowance.

If it is that important....then they would do it irrespective of overtime allowance.

All the allowances are the real problem. The cost of the St Patrick's day trips and Dail bar are a fraction of the cost of these.

irish bloke

There getting 2 weeks paint balling from what I heard last

Paulzx

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yes, from the article itself....did you not read it?


The above quotes mean they have run out of money to pay officers EXTRA for travel sub and overtime allowance to instructors.

Which is for EXTRA hours worked.............not just a random few quid given for nothing

flutered

paddy147 wrote: »

Stop taking the pi55 and cutting back on vital things like this.

Funny how Mr Sahtter had the fella who robbed his house up in court so fast and jailed up real quick too....:rolleyes:

but would not let a gaurd use his bog when he was stuck.

Samba

TommiesTank wrote: »

Chip in the money himself?

That sounds like a great idea! Imagine every politician in Ireland surrendered 10% of their wages.

I wonder how many vital services could be furnished with such savings.

If they really gave a **** about this country and serving its people, they would have done just that a long time ago.

Political reform? We've seen pseudo reform and very little else. It's high time the issue of unreasonable political pensions and wages was addressed, before any more cuts are introduced.

Obviously some services will have to be cut back, but there has to balance.

NuckingFacker

irish bloke wrote: »

There getting 2 weeks paint balling from what I heard last

due to cutbacks, they just get to point the paintball guns and go "bang" bang" - their ball allowance has been decimated. And there's no gas at all. It used to be all balls and gas, now it's car-pooling and no overtime. Starsky and Hutch would be turning in their graves.

BattleCorp

Paulzx wrote: »

Which is for EXTRA hours worked.............not just a random few quid given for nothing

Why does it have to be extra hours worked? Why don't they go during their normal hours, then it wouldn't be extra money, would it?

Paulzx

TommiesTank wrote: »

All the allowances are the real problem. The cost of the St Patrick's day trips and Dail bar are a fraction of the cost of these.

Gardai receive 235.76 different allowances each....fact. Some of them are so ridiculous it's unbelievable.

Did you know that Gardai that are originally from Dublin get an allowance because they have to speak like culchies during the course of their work?

The sham that told me this in the pub was told by his vet who was told by a Friesien heifer.

Frosty McSnowballs

Paulzx wrote: »

Which is for EXTRA hours worked.............not just a random few quid given for nothing

Oh so thats how overtime works :rolleyes:

Iv seen them turn up at ranges at 11 and be gone by 2.

Paulzx

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Oh so thats how overtime works :rolleyes:

Iv seen them turn up at ranges at 11 and be gone by 2.

Did you ask them were they on overtime?

BattleCorp

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-firearms-training-cancelled-due-to-cutbacks-29584501.html


It says in the above link that range work is being cut down to once a year.

I am a target shooter and I know damn well that once a year shooting isn't worth a crap if you want to be accurate. We shoot every single week and all we are shooting for is fun and maybe the odd competition or twenty. They should be shooting at least once a month, absolute minimum as they are shooting to save lives.



No disrespect meant to the Gardaí, it's just my opinion that one day a year at the range won't make them any more accurate than a farmer that takes an odd shot now and again.

NuckingFacker

BattleCorp wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-firearms-training-cancelled-due-to-cutbacks-29584501.html


It says in the above link that range work is being cut down to once a year.

I am a target shooter and I know damn well that once a year shooting isn't worth a crap if you want to be accurate. We shoot every single week and all we are shooting for is fun and maybe the odd competition or twenty. They should be shooting at least once a month, absolute minimum as they are shooting to save lives.



No disrespect meant to the Gardaí, it's just my opinion that one day a year at the range won't make them any more accurate than a farmer that takes an odd shot now and again.

They never get to shoot anything, it's ireland. If they stopped issuing ammunition, it would make feck all difference.

Frosty McSnowballs

Paulzx wrote: »

Did you ask them were they on overtime?

Oh yeah of course I did, just incase you asked me.

The point is. Just because there is no money in the kitty to pay an allowance. It doesn't mean you HAVE to stop training altogether.

Simple.

BattleCorp

NuckingFacker wrote: »

They never get to shoot anything, it's ireland. If they stopped issuing ammunition, it would make feck all difference.

How often they get to draw their guns in the line of fire is irrelevant. Yes, it's not as often as in other jurisdictions, but I'd still like to know that the guys with the guns are well trained.

If I'm being held hostage, I wouldn't fancy one cop asking another cop how the gun works. One day a year at the range is pants.

Frosty McSnowballs

BattleCorp wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-firearms-training-cancelled-due-to-cutbacks-29584501.html
It says in the above link that range work is being cut down to once a year.

No, it states that they are only required to attend one range day instead of three. Not that they are cutting it down to one.

BattleCorp

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

No, it states that they are only required to attend one range day instead of three. Not that they are cutting it down to one.

I am open to correction but I think 'required to attend one range day' and 'they only attend one range day' are the same thing.


If it's a cost saving exercise, they will hardly be allowed to go more than once seeing as it's being reduced from 'required to attend 3' to 'required to attend 1'.

Simply: The amount of range time required = the amount of times they will shoot.

NuckingFacker

BattleCorp wrote: »

I am open to correction but I think 'required to attend one range day' and 'they only attend one range day' are the same thing.


If it's a cost saving exercise, they will hardly be allowed to go more than once seeing as it's being reduced from 'required to attend 3' to 'required to attend 1'.

Simply: The amount of range time required = the amount of times they will shoot.

which should pretty much be an end to it. They get to shoot feck all, both on active duty and in training. Seems like a good, healthy balance.

Frosty McSnowballs

BattleCorp wrote: »

I am open to correction but I think 'required to attend one range day' and 'they only attend one range day' are the same thing.

If it's a cost saving exercise, they will hardly be allowed to go more than once seeing as it's being reduced from 'required to attend 3' to 'required to attend 1'.

Simply: The amount of range time required = the amount of times they will shoot.

I'm sure there are people that would be happy just to shoot the once and qualify to carry the weapon. I am also sure that if you want to fire again, you could.

It is most definitely a cost saving measure.

BattleCorp

NuckingFacker wrote: »

which should pretty much be an end to it. They get to shoot feck all, both on active duty and in training. Seems like a good, healthy balance.

How often you get to shoot in the line of duty doesn't really matter.

Lots of us do first aid training in the hope that we never have to use it.

BattleCorp

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm sure there are people that would be happy just to shoot the once and qualify to carry the weapon. I am also sure that if you want to fire again, you could.

It is most definitely a cost saving measure.

I've no doubt that some of them might be happy to just shoot once and qualify to carry the firearm.

But that isn't good enough in my opinion. To be accurate with a firearm (and lets face it, what good is a firearm if you aren't accurate), you need to train and train often.

Once a year just doesn't cut it. When they have to draw their firearm in the line of duty, they aren't plinking at a bottle in a quarry, they are going to be involved in a life or death situation, and for that kind of situation, you need to be very very very well trained.

Frosty McSnowballs

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've no doubt that some of them might be happy to just shoot once and qualify to carry the firearm.

But that isn't good enough in my opinion. To be accurate with a firearm (and lets face it, what good is a firearm if you aren't accurate), you need to train and train often.

Once a year just doesn't cut it. When they have to draw their firearm in the line of duty, they aren't plinking at a bottle in a quarry, they are going to be involved in a life or death situation, and for that kind of situation, you need to be very very very well trained.

I agree and I am familiar with the need to shoot regularly. But what is the alternative? There's no money to pay the allowance.

My suggestion is abolish the allowance (s) and use it to fund ammunition procurement. That should provide ammo and extra range days needed to have proficient weapon carriers.

Zebra3

What's the problem?

Enough mongos voted at the last general election for parties to make cutbacks and bailout bondholders.

And here we are....

SimonQuinlank

The Indo and it's editor (coincidentally the former editor of Garda Review magazine) looking out for their mates as usual.

You'd think that rank and file Gardai not having basic resources available to them would be a bigger story than a small number of well paid members of a specialist unit having it's training budget cut for the remaining 4 months of the year.

MadsL

token101 wrote: »

They are hardly going to forget every single thing they've learned in four months now are they? They only train four times a year anyway? So they've cut one session basically? What a non story!

And ****ing hell, 're-sume'? Christ the Indo's cutting back too I'd say

Taking a break from target practice has a huge impact in your accuracy.

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Point, squint, squeeze, bang. FFS, it's not that hard to shoot a gun. How much training do they need? They never get to use the bleedin things anyway.

It is not hard to shoot a gun. It is hard to hit what you are aiming at with a gun, which you would know if you ever fired one.

They never get to use them until the critical moment when they do.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

My suggestion is abolish the allowance (s) and use it to fund ammunition procurement. That should provide ammo and extra range days needed to have proficient weapon carriers.

And maybe let regional firearms gardai train and TOET them, then train up range managers instead of having a dedicated firearms unit with instructors allowances plus sub ~ wait that sounds like 'da army!.

I don't understand why a cop should get paid to be armed, or to go to their annual range practice ~ jeeze I'd love to get a few quid for a few days up in Kilbride

Imagine that with us "Sorry sir there's no sub for the ranges?... I'm not going so"

"Erm Smith, get into the f*cking truck"... "yes sir".

Seaneh

Cassandra Puny Gauge wrote: »

And maybe let regional firearms gardai train and TOET them, then train up range managers instead of having a dedicated firearms unit with instructors allowances plus sub ~ wait that sounds like 'da army!.

I don't understand why a cop should get paid to be armed, or to go to their annual range practice ~ jeeze I'd love to get a few quid for a few days up in Kilbride

Imagine that with us "Sorry sir there's no sub for the ranges?... I'm not going so"

"Erm Smith, get into the f*cking truck"... "yes sir".

Was chatting to my Auld lad about this last night and this was pretty much his reaction too.

knucklehead6

i know that this is a fairly serious subject, but this

Cassandra Puny Gauge wrote: »

Imagine that with us "Sorry sir there's no sub for the ranges?... I'm not going so"

"Erm Smith, get into the f*cking truck"... "yes sir".

made me laugh