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When did indifference to child abuse become ok?

  • 17-09-2013 07:04PM
    #1
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    My fiancée just read an article describing how a 4 year old was starved, beaten and murdered by an alcoholic mother and abusive step father. When the fúck did turning a blind eye to this shít become ok?
    A four-year-old boy murdered by his 'callous and wretched' mother and step-father was 'invisible' to the authorities who missed dozens of chances to save him, an official report revealed today.
    Daniel Pelka was starved, tortured and then beaten to death in an ‘incomprehensible’ campaign of cruelty by Magdalena Luczak, 27, and Mariusz Krezolek, 34.
    It has emerged police were called to his home 27 times in his short life as his drunk mother got into violent rows with various lovers, often with the schoolboy watching.
    Before his death Daniel resembled a ‘concentration camp victim’, weighed just 11kg and was so hungry teachers saw him eating food from bins and the school sandpit.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2423264/Four-year-old-Daniel-Pelka-beaten-starved-death-invisible-authorities-missed-chance-chance-save-report-finds.html


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    It didnt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    idiots all over sky news today trying to deflect the blame for this. im not even sure any of them cared about the child as long as their asses were covered.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Millions of years ago. Romans and Greeks threw their babies on the rubbish heap to die of exposure if they didn't want them.

    It's only recently enough we've put real value on human life. It's only in the last generation we've stopped beating our kids into submission.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    idiots all over sky news today trying to deflect the blame for this. im not even sure any of them cared about the child as long as their asses were covered.

    Someone needs to grow some balls and step up to plate to take responsibility.


  • Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Anytime I see the faces of those 2 b******* on the TV, I want to punch the screen.

    SKY interviewed some woman today, head of some authority. Her first words before the interviewer started "it wasn't my fault" show some respect and professionalism goddammit!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!

    You're completely going off on a tangent. How does tossing a term around compare to murdering a child?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!


    Ye don't call beating, torturing then killing a child child abuse?

    If you're joking, it's not funny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,443 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!

    Well the second one- in fairness, there is a real possibility...

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!

    On another note, when does a child choose second hand smoke? When does a child make a conscious decision to go to mass?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Millions of years ago.
    Romans and Greeks

    I think you mean thousands. :P


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,555 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    Itzy wrote: »
    On another note, when does a child choose second hand smoke? When does a child make a conscious decision to go to mass?

    hrm... poe's law or not poe's law


  • Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That child suffered, really suffered for all of his short little life. He wasn't dropped and died instantly. He was tortured, starved, fed ****ing salt!

    Why do some of you have to make stupid unfunny comments about everything? There's a time and a place,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    So many missed opportunities to have saved the poor childs life.

    Headmaster sees a dangerously underweight four year old eating food out of a bin and carries on irregardless?

    Tragic.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    hrm... poe's law or not poe's law

    Yeah I know of Poe's law, but how does relate to the murder of a child or forcing undesirable decisions on them, i.e. passive smoking.


  • Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The term "child abuse" is thrown around too freely now.

    Light up a fag inside a car with a child in the back .. child abuse!

    Bring em to mass on sunday.. child abuse!

    Mod

    That's not what this thread is about and well you know it.

    Quit trolling if you want up keep posting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    ''Despite a series of appalling blunders by police, social workers, teachers and NHS staff in Coventry, no-one has been sacked or even disciplined for their failure to protect him''

    The reason no one will be sacked is because no one will accept responsibility it's all about passing the book, same here, his teachers should have done something about it and those who turned a bind eye should be ashamed of themselves.
    His mother was/is an evil bitch, how could she hate her own child so much, to see how he suffered is heartbreaking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Another case like the baby P case that was supposed to be the catalyst for change. :(

    A couple of things probably contributed to this - shortage of social workers, time and resourced wasted on an overload of paperwork, lazy investigation etc.

    However, a battered, emaciated child can slip through the cracks in the system is mind boggling. It really is a poor reflection on child protection policies in the UK.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    HondaSami wrote: »
    The reason no one will be sacked is because no one will accept responsibility it's all about passing the book, same here, his teachers should have done something about it and those who turned a bind eye should be ashamed of themselves.
    His mother was/is an evil bitch, how could she hate her own child so much, to see how he suffered is heartbreaking.
    Another case like the baby P case that was supposed to be the catalyst for change. :(

    A couple of things probably contributed to this - shortage of social workers, time and resourced wasted on an overload of paperwork, lazy investigation etc.

    However, a battered, emaciated child can slip through the cracks in the system is mind boggling. It really is a poor reflection on child protection policies in the UK.

    Both Ireland and the UK seriously need to look at child protection law. An investigation in to the failing of departments in protecting the child needs to take place. No one should get off the hook.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    I don't understand this at all - if one social worker had even asked to see his room there would have been no doubt of abuse.....why are there so many obstacles to saving a child??

    Surely it's better for a social worker to take a child out of a situation and be proven wrong in abuse than to leave them there and be proven right??

    If there's any small bit of doubt, a child should be taken out of the situation straight away until there is no doubt that the child is in safe hands. Forget hurt feelings and all this political correctness ****e.

    I don't understand all this keeping a child in a bad situation no matter what until there's solid evidence or the child is killed. It's obviously not working!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Jernal wrote: »
    I think you mean thousands. :P
    No I meant millions and used an ancient culture as a reference to how bad people where in the past. I wasn't stating ancient times were a million years ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    If there's any small bit of doubt, a child should be taken out of the situation straight away until there is no doubt that the child is in safe hands. Forget hurt feelings and all this political correctness ****e.
    I doubt it's to do with hurt feelings/political correctness - it's easy to say how it should be done, and no doubt that's how social workers would hope to do it, but you can't know unless you're actually dealing with such cases and all they entail.
    I don't understand either though how there are such obstacles to saving a child.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    I don't care if she's an alcoholic, she's abused and murdered a child and she should be called an abuser.
    I doubt it's to do with hurt feelings/political correctness - it's easy to say how it should be done, and no doubt that's how social workers would hope to do it, but you can't know unless you're actually dealing with such cases and all they entail.
    I don't understand either though how there are such obstacles to saving a child.

    I'd say it's because the childcare system is only a step above a moderately abusive home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    He was dead, locked in a room for 36 hours before his mother even noticed. The police were called to their house 26 times in the months leading up to that poor baby's death and nobody removed him from the house.

    His teachers saw him eating apple and pear cores from the compost bin in school and when they questioned his mother, she told them to reprimand him if they caught him doing it again because he was a greedy boy and was already overeating at home.

    This keeps happening. I thought a hard lesson was learned with Baby P but obviously not. I can't emphasise enough how sad and emotional this little boy's story makes me feel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    The pictures of him in that article are unbearable... :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    I doubt it's to do with hurt feelings/political correctness - it's easy to say how it should be done, and no doubt that's how social workers would hope to do it, but you can't know unless you're actually dealing with such cases and all they entail.
    I don't understand either though how there are such obstacles to saving a child.

    That's it though - it shouldn't matter the circumstances or what it entails, it should be a case of: Child could be abused, we're not sure but there's some question about it - child is removed from home, everyone questioned, environment sussed out, garda records looked at and then, situation assessed and a decision about the childs safety made.

    How it seems to be done now is: Child abuse suspected, child left in situation for months or years on end while parents are half questioned, no follow up done properly, no real assessment, child only removed when situation is absolutely dire.

    It's all backwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I'd definitely support more rigorous monitoring of all parents in Ireland/UK by social services. Yearly checks, maybe, or random call outs. Reports from teachers and schools. Any decent parent with nothing to hide will have nothing to worry about, and scum like those 2 will have more chance of getting caught.

    That poor baby must have been so scared, not one person in his life to love him or protect him, he lived his short life in pain and fear. Its so upsetting to even think about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    I'd definitely support more rigorous monitoring of all parents in Ireland/UK by social services. Yearly checks, maybe, or random call outs. Reports from teachers and schools. Any decent parent with nothing to hide will have nothing to worry about, and scum like those 2 will have more chance of getting caught.

    That poor baby must have been so scared, not one person in his life to love him or protect him, he lived his short life in pain and fear. Its so upsetting to even think about.


    Social care services are vastly underfunded as it is, and because of this lack of resources and all sorts of bureaucracy and then privacy laws, family law... I could go on all night, but suffice to say it basically comes down to numbers- too many children and families in need of support, but the support just isn't there, because the funding isn't there, and even then, they're expected to work with their hands tied behind their backs and a ball gag in their mouths, while walking a tightrope policy that contradicts itself - protect the child, but try to keep the family together.

    This individual case is only one that made the papers because of the fact the child eventually died, but this is just one case among many thousands where the abuse continues for years, and nobody wants to say anything because people would rather turn a blind eye as it's not really any of their business and they'd rather not be involved.

    I don't think it's right to play the blame game just because it's so easy to peg the blame on underfunded, understaffed and over-worked authorities, when how many members of the public would've seen that child on a daily basis and thought "Poor child", yet done nothing, not even made as much as a phone call to notify the authorities of their concerns, but kept it to themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭emmabrighton


    I was awake thinking about that poor little boy last night. I was so sad when I saw the class photos where he was smiling. He looked happy but was masking all that pain. My heart breaks for him. His parents are supposed to be the people who are guaranteed to love and protect him no matter what.

    I don't think the alcoholic reference in the story has any relevance, to be honest. Its like saying that his mother was a smoker or a gambler. Alcoholic or not, smoker or not, gambler or not, everyone knows child abuse is wrong. She is just an evil sadist. I hope that b*tch dies roaring - though it would be too good for her.

    I think too that it is wrong to scape goat and that it is our fault as a society that this goes on. I remember only a few weeks ago seeing a young girl - definitely in her teens - with a new born baby in her arms - and the baby was small, definitely not an eight pounder. She was hanging around the local spar showing off her new baby to her other teenager friends. It was freezing. I had the heating turned on in my car. I watched her for about 3 or 4 minutes before my partner came out of the shop and was thinking she should go home with her tiny little baby. I didn't say anything. Cos, like the poster above said, i certainly didn't want to get involved. The thought of a group of teens hurling abuse at me for criticizing one of their friends? No thanks.

    Obviously not the same thing, but the point is that we probably see things that are not right every day and do and say nothing because we dont want to get involved.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Itzy wrote: »
    Both Ireland and the UK seriously need to look at child protection law. An investigation in to the failing of departments in protecting the child needs to take place. No one should get off the hook.

    The reason things like this happen, at least in part, is because of the reaction when things like this happen and the pendelum effect it creates. Most folks over the age of 30 will remember the tabloid led abuse social services got in the UK many years ago for operating an overzealous approach to abuse. Children were taken from their families on the slightest suspicion and families were actively ruined. Now the pendelum has swing to the other extreme and social services are terrified to intervene and zealously guard the human rights of the parents.

    The sad reality is if boards was posting back then many the posters now acting outraged at the failures here would be equally outraged at the other extreme. Unfortunately people are very slow to argue for a suitably proportionate system where those charged with protecting children don't have to spend time actively covering their asses in case they're scapegoated by one or another lobby group.

    As another poster said, the people responsible for Daniel Pelka's death were the two animals he was unfortunate enough to call his parents. No one else intentionally let him be harmed so the most constructive question is where did the system that's in place fail.


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