Tenant wants to change the rent "due date", after being late with previous month...

Zulu

My tenant, who given the benefit of doubt appears ok. He was sharing with another, but they've moved out and he's now renting alone.
He was late with last months rent (the first month on his own). I didn't notice for a good while as I was lax checking. So when I noticed, I contacted him, and fair enough he promptly paid.

So I contacted him today to remind him the rent is due tomorrow. He's replied saying he wants to talk, that he's a bit broke and is looking to change the rent "due date" to the end of each month.

Should I entertain this? And if so, how should I manage it - charge him 1/2 a months rent now to take him up to the end of this month?
Or (as I'm inclined to think is best), tell him "no" & that he needs to stick to his lease conditions?

Opinions preferably from other LL's please.

Mrs OBumble

I'm a LL .. albeit foreign based and having a PM company to do all the work for me.

I'd entertain it (unless you'd prefer him to move out): If the rent date is very shortly after he's paid, then it's more likely that you'll get paid every time. Insist that it must be by standing order though, no nonsense with having him do a manual deposit each month.

Pawwed Rig

I would tend to be flexible but maintain the payments in advance.
I would be concerned that he did not contact you when he was late though.

The_Conductor

How about come to an arrangement with him- in exchange for moving the due date to the end of the month, he change his payment method to direct debit, and he make good the 2 weeks difference (so he still has a deposit of 1 month's rent alongside paying rent a month in advance) before the end of the year (this can be done in stages- you don't want to crucify the poor guy- just normalise the situation).

Zulu

Well my concern is that he's looking to change the date because he's fallen behind on the rent from the previous month.
In order to do what he's proposing, he's going to have to pay 1/2 of a month now, and another months rent before the end of the month.

With regards to the "direct debit", I understand he had is set up but there wasn't funding to cover it last month so the payment failed. I'm not keen to allow a slippage of two weeks so early in the lease frankly.

ted1

I wouldn't entertain it. The way it is he is paying you once a month. Sounds like he is trying to avoid a month of paying you.

the_syco

ted1 wrote: »

Sounds like he is trying to avoid a month of paying you.

Second this. How long has he been renting from ye? Maybe a sign of things to come, as he's shown that DD's ain't worth the paper they're written on.

Zulu

Her's been there about 6/7 months with another chap, but that lad moved out. He's there on his own one month now. He's due to pay for the second month today.

djimi

I dont really see what difference it makes to be honest. Assuming he wants to pay on a date that is still in this month, you are ultimately going to get the same amount off of him either way. Okay it might mean that this month you had to wait 6 weeks or whatever for the rent, but at the end of the tenancy he is going to be paying you a months rent for 2 remainging weeks of the tenancy, so it evens itself out.

It doesnt sound to me like he is trying to pull a fast one (and if he is he is going the wrong way about it); more that he is just trying to organize his finances to cope with the change in circumstances.

Of course, its up to you whether or not you want to agree to it, and you are within your rights to refuse if you wish, but ultimately its in your interests to make it easier for your tenant to pay the rent, and if this is what he says he needs then so be it; I would work with him if I were you.

techdiver

I'm not a landlord, but I'm a tenant.

I have requested rent to be paid at the beginning of each month to co-inside with when I am paid. It means the first thing I pay every month is my rent. From your tenants point of view it might negate any chance of other direct debits emptying his account mid month leaving him short on rent.

From your point of view, it might mean you have a better chance of receiving rent in a timely manner. I would ask for a standing order to be set up though, which means you are first to be paid at the same time every month without fail.

beauf

If they pay extra IN ADVANCE to move their payment date. I'd facilitate that.

I suspect if hes broke, thats not what they want to do. I wouldn't accept anything other than paid in advance though.

I'd also have a discussion, that if they can't afford the rent, to consider moving out now before they get into difficulty, and arrears. Rent somewhere cheaper, or get someone else in.

gaius c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would tend to be flexible but maintain the payments in advance.
I would be concerned that he did not contact you when he was late though.

That's the red warning flag for me too.
Find out when his payday is and see if that justifies the changed rent due date. It could be that current rent due date falls just before his payday.
With the previous late payment, I'd be wary though.

Zulu

So as I feared, he's looking to pay for 6 weeks at the end of the month. He says he's broke, but once he's paid between the 23rd and the 27th he'll be able make up the difference, and will pay me the arrears and the upcoming month.
I've told him I'll get back to him by tomorrow, but I reckon at this point I'll ask him to leave. To be honest I've got him a few additional thing he's asked for and I'm concerned he's taking advantage. Eitherway, I'm no longer comfortable which is all sorts of red flags for me.

Can anyone advise the best course of action from here? (In getting him out?)

djimi

The only course of action that you can take is to issue a 14 day notice of arrears and if he doesnt sort the arrears in that time then you can issue a 28 day notice of termintion. If he pays up in the 14 days then you cannot take the matter further.

You cannot just ask him to leave because you dont want him there any more.

If the rent is due now and he is looking to pay it in 6 weeks time then he is taking the piss. If he is looking to pay in 2 weeks time and adjust the date accordingly then Id be inclined to facilitate and see what happens.

beauf

Thinking about it again. Hes not changing the due date.

He telling you he going to miss his rent.

sunnysoutheast

Zulu wrote: »

So as I feared, he's looking to pay for 6 weeks at the end of the month. He says he's broke, but once he's paid between the 23rd and the 27th he'll be able make up the difference, and will pay me the arrears and the upcoming month.
I've told him I'll get back to him by tomorrow, but I reckon at this point I'll ask him to leave. To be honest I've got him a few additional thing he's asked for and I'm concerned he's taking advantage. Eitherway, I'm no longer comfortable which is all sorts of red flags for me.

Can anyone advise the best course of action from here? (In getting him out?)

Well unless he plans to get somebody else in to share with him it's only going to get worse isn't it?

Zulu

I hope I don't regret this; I've given him the benefit of doubt. He's swore he'll pay at the end of the month. I don't know, lets hope he's not taking the piss.

...should I issue him a rent arrears letter regardless, just in case?

odds_on

You rented a property and two names were on the lease?
One person has left, so is the remaining tenant is having to pay the full amount or just his portion?

If he can't afford the rent, what will happen when the next utility bills arrive?

D3PO

Zulu wrote: »

I hope I don't regret this; I've given him the benefit of doubt. He's swore he'll pay at the end of the month. I don't know, lets hope he's not taking the piss.

...should I issue him a rent arrears letter regardless, just in case?

I would issue the rent arrears letter yes. Contact him and telling him your doing it to protect yourself should there be an issue at the end of the month with the due rent.

You don't need to explain it to him but in trying to keep good LL / tenant relations its probably a good idea.

also means if no 6 weeks rent as promised you can then start the eviction process rather than waiting another 14 days.

pwurple

LL, I'd be wary, it rings warning bells. What arrangement did he come to with the other tenant for deposit I wonder? He may have paid that tenant their portion of that already as well... Given his buddy the money he owes you maybe?

If you do allow him to pay 2 weeks late, make sure he pays 6 weeks remt rather than 4.

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

I would issue the rent arrears letter yes. Contact him and telling him your doing it to protect yourself should there be an issue at the end of the month with the due rent.

You don't need to explain it to him but in trying to keep good LL / tenant relations its probably a good idea.

also means if no 6 weeks rent as promised you can then start the eviction process rather than waiting another 14 days.

To be honest, if the OP has agreed to allow the extension of the rent then it would be a right prick of a thing to do to then turn around and issue a 14 day notice of arrears. Either agree to it or dont. If the tenant is genuine then its only creating a hostile situation where there does not need to be one, and if he is inclined to cause hassle then this could push him over the edge.

Its in the OPs interest as landlord not to cause conflict where one does not exist; when a tenancy turns bad the only real loser is going to be the landlord.

Pawwed Rig

Agree with that there is no point issuing the 14 day notice. Should he not pay on the allocated day in 2 weeks then you are still not at a loss if you then go down the termination of tenancy route. Better to keep things sweet imho

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

To be honest, if the OP has agreed to allow the extension of the rent then it would be a right prick of a thing to do to then turn around and issue a 14 day notice of arrears. Either agree to it or dont. If the tenant is genuine then its only creating a hostile situation where there does not need to be one, and if he is inclined to cause hassle then this could push him over the edge.

Its in the OPs interest as landlord not to cause conflict where one does not exist; when a tenancy turns bad the only real loser is going to be the landlord.

ive no doubt the tenant is being genuine but hes messing the OP around a bit right now, whos to say he wont mess him round at the end of the month, not purposely but who knows what will happen the tenant is obviously struggling right now.

Better to have your ducks in order. I don't see how it would cause conflict if the OP outlines to the tenant their reasoning is to protect themselves. By agreeing to change the due date etc a level of understanding has been given by the OP to the tenant who will recognize this.

They should also recognize that the LL has to look after themselves aswell. If the tenant is genuine and knows they will be paying the 6 weeks at the months end and understands why the OP has issues the letter then there should be no hostility.

Zulu

Frankly I don't care if I come across as a "prick". I've been far too sound already. All he needs to do is pay his rent, which right now, he isn't doing.
I'm issuing an arrears letter. I'll tell him it's just a precaution to cover myself and he can ignore it as he's going to pay by the end of the month.

Ultimately we aren't friends, this is a business arrangement. I don 't see why I should continue to give; why I should continue to further expose myself. Fair is fair, and currently I'm the only one playing fair here.

Zulu

Can anyone tell me if a scanned and emailed copy of an arrears notice is sufficient (if the tenant acknowledges receipt of same)?

fl4pj4ck

make sure you send it by registered post

keeponhurling

You want to make sure that he is looking for somebody else to move in with him, seems he can make the payments sharing but on his own is a struggle so not sustainable?

For the tenant his options are either find a housemate, or find a cheaper place to stay.

Zulu

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

make sure you send it by registered post

...doesn't really answer my question.

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

Frankly I don't care if I come across as a "prick". I've been far too sound already. All he needs to do is pay his rent, which right now, he isn't doing.
I'm issuing an arrears letter. I'll tell him it's just a precaution to cover myself and he can ignore it as he's going to pay by the end of the month.

Ultimately we aren't friends, this is a business arrangement. I don 't see why I should continue to give; why I should continue to further expose myself. Fair is fair, and currently I'm the only one playing fair here.

The way I see it, if your actions upset the relationship with the tenant then you are ultimately going to be only person who loses out. If he decides to go full on wanker and not pay, its going to cost you in the long run, not him. It will take months to sort, and in that time you may not get any money, and even at the end of it there is no guarantee you will get anything more than an empty property. I know thats worst case scenario, and it may not be as bad as that, but if you are unsure about this guy then why take the chance? You dont really have a lot to gain in the grand scheme of things (14 days hardly matters that much), and a lot to lose if it all goes pear shaped for you.

I know this sounds a very wishy washy approach to it, but such is the reality. Tenancy laws favour tenants, and the process to get issues sorted is long and tedious. Its up to you, but its in your interest to keep the relationship on good terms. Agreeing to an extension to the rent to help the tenant, and then turning around and issuing notice of arrears is not a good way to do that; to me it just has the potential to breed a hostile situation and that is not something that you want. If, in two weeks time, no rent is forthcoming, then issue your notices and start to move for termination, but until then stick to your end of the agreement.

Pawwed Rig

Zulu wrote: »

...doesn't really answer my question.

A notice required or authorised to be served or given by or under this Act shall, subject to subsection (2), be addressed to the person concerned by name and may be served on or given to the person in one of the following ways:

(a) by delivering it to the person;

(b) by leaving it at the address at which the person ordinarily resides or, in a case in which an address for service has been furnished, at that address;

(c) by sending it by post in a prepaid letter to the address at which the person ordinarily resides or, in a case in which an address for service has been furnished, to that address;

(d) where the notice relates to a dwelling and it appears that no person is in actual occupation of the dwelling, by affixing it in a conspicuous position on the outside of the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling.
So the answer to your question is No

whippet

Zulu wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if a scanned and emailed copy of an arrears notice is sufficient (if the tenant acknowledges receipt of same)?

I don't think you are going to get a definitive answer anywhere unfortunately as the only acid test is if you go to the PRTB and they rule that the notice wasn't served correctly.

The only way to deal with this is by the letter of the law.

- Serve 14 day notice in writing by registered post
- Do not make contact with tenant in that time frame
- If tenant makes contact respond by email and request that he communicate by email
- If payment does not arrive - issue the 28 day notice of termination

What ever you do make sure you get proper templates for these letters from the PRTB website or the likes as even not dotting your 'i's and crossing the T's can end up in a PRTB ruling against you.

I have been down this road and its a pain in the ass but you are kicking against the wind being a landlord.

For what it is worth; once a tenant starts acting like this the chances are they will be forever looking for inches that turn in to miles

WIZE

I think you should send it via registered Post.

This should confirm that he has received it. As you want to cover yourself you will need proof that he has received it. The are too many excuses with email. Didnt get it , Spam folder , No longer use the email address, accidently deleted it an so on

Zulu

@djimi 14 days mightn't seem like a whole pile, but its 14 days is too long to risk.

sbsquarepants

ted1 wrote: »

I wouldn't entertain it. The way it is he is paying you once a month. Sounds like he is trying to avoid a month of paying you.

No he's not. Sounds like a simple cash flow/budgeting issue to me.
I've had to change several loan repayments etc over the years to suit when I got paid. I wasn't great at putting money by for this and for that so the easiest solution for me was get paid, pay all bills straight away and what's left is mine to do with as I see fit. It's still the way I do things.
Once you get a months rent every month, what does it matter what day you get it on?

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

@djimi 14 days mightn't seem like a whole pile, but its 14 days is too long to risk.

Its your call at the end of the day, but as a tenant I can say that if I asked my landlord for help as your tenant has done and they agreed and then turned around and started issuing notices of arrears etc, then I would not be in the slightest bit impressed. If I was the kind of tenant who was inclined to exploit the situation and stop paying rent, knowing that I can remain in the property virtually rent free until the PRTB sort themselves out a year down the line, then such a thing might be enough to tip me over the edge. Like I said, worst case scenario, but thats the risk that you take for souring the relationship, and all for very little gain in the grand scheme of things.

Each to their own, but its not how I would look to do things. If I make an agreement then I will stick to it to see it out.

Zulu

djimi wrote: »

Its your call at the end of the day, but as a tenant I can say that if I asked my landlord for help as your tenant has done and they agreed and then turned around and started issuing notices of arrears etc, then I would not be in the slightest bit impressed. If I was the kind of tenant
...

To be fair IF you were to be a prick, you'd be a prick. And I'd be best moving the whole thing along by 14 days where I can. I'm not going to pander to the potential of my tenant being a prick.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Once you get a months rent every month, what does it matter what day you get it on?

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

H3llR4iser

There is one thing that is not clear through the thread: If I got it correctly, the tenant was halving the rent with his housemate and paying it roughly by the middle of the month. Now he says he can't pay the full rent, but could he pay the half he was paying before? That would effectively cover the remaining two weeks of the month and then on the 27th or 28th, after getting his salary, he can pay the full rent for the next month and start a new cycle from there.

If he can't pay "his half" now, then the issue is much deeper, would have happened even if his housemate was still there, and you'd be better off asking him to go.

sbsquarepants

Zulu wrote: »

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Calm down there!
It was a simple question. I assume you are being paid a month in advance, plus a security deposit? That's fairly standard. If so you already have 2 months or so rent in advance, so is a once off two week delay really the end of the world? You still get the same amount of rent for the same amount of renting. That is all I meant.
At the end of the day, if it doesn't suit you tell him no. But if you come on a discussion board and ask peoples opinions, you shouldn't really get all high and mighty when they give them to you!

whippet

in the landlord - tenant relationship in ireland the odds are almost always stacked in the favour of the tenant. The tenant is protected by both the PRTB and the horrendous amount of time that it takes for anything to get sorted.

In most decent areas there are plenty of willing tenants for decent properties; why waste your time or risk with one who is unable / unwilling to play by the rules.

After getting stung by rogue tenants I will not tolerate anything that isn't in the lease and so far so good for me. As a landlord there is far too much at risk to even entertain the possibility of being played for a fool.

In today's Ireland the typical landlord isn't the brandy swirling cigar smoking west-brit lording it over his subjects anymore - many are just ordinary folk trying to pay the bills to cover costs ..

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Then why did you agree to it? If it doesnt suit you you could have just said no, issued the 14 day notice of arrears and then 28 days notice of termination and be done with it.

Zulu

djimi wrote: »

Then why did you agree to it? If it doesnt suit you you could have just said no, issued the 14 day notice of arrears and then 28 days notice of termination and be done with it.

What choice do i have?

As it stands, I've agreed to it, & I've issued the 14 day notice. If he comes good, then ok I'll manage. If he doesn't I'll issue eviction notice. However, if I didn't agree to it, I'd be no different at this point (in that I'd be issuing notice and if he pays I wouldn't be able to evict).

seanie27

Does anyone have tenants who pay their rent over a period of weeks? My one is a head wreck. She's a single mother and always has some excuse and pays in dribs and drabs over the month period. one week the boyfriend and father of the child is gone and she has to reclaim some allowance the next he's moved back in and she has to correct something. One month she's not getting some allowance any more the next month she has to reapply for something else. She's always a sob story or some such crap. She even hasn't been organising the bins properly. She's been there nearly two years and recently only got the bins sorted as she'd been getting a skip to dump the domestic waste into. She claims to have no money yet you wouldn't believe the amount of takeaway cartons I see from Eddie Rockets, Dominos and chinese takeaways in her bins as they lay strewn around the back. She's also got a sky connection and recently take on a pet (without consulting me). I assume the pet is going to stink up the place though all the furniture is hers.
Any advice?

djimi

seanie27 wrote: »

Does anyone have tenants who pay their rent over a period of weeks? My one is a head wreck. She's a single mother and always has some excuse and pays in dribs and drabs over the month period. one week the boyfriend and father of the child is gone and she has to reclaim some allowance the next he's moved back in and she has to correct something. One month she's not getting some allowance any more the next month she has to reapply for something else. She's always a sob story or some such crap. She even hasn't been organising the bins properly. She's been there nearly two years and recently only got the bins sorted as she'd been getting a skip to dump the domestic waste into. She claims to have no money yet you wouldn't believe the amount of takeaway cartons I see from Eddie Rockets, Dominos and chinese takeaways in her bins as they lay strewn around the back. She's also got a sky connection and recently take on a pet (without consulting me). I assume the pet is going to stink up the place though all the furniture is hers.
Any advice?

If having the pet means that she is in breach of the lease then you could use that as a reason to move to terminate the lease.

Other than that all you can really do is continue to issue 14 day written notices of arrears whenever he rent is not paid in full and on time, and if she exceeds the 14 days then you can issue a 28 day notice of termination and evict her.

seanie27

djimi wrote: »

If having the pet means that she is in breach of the lease then you could use that as a reason to move to terminate the lease.

Other than that all you can really do is continue to issue 14 day written notices of arrears whenever he rent is not paid in full and on time, and if she exceeds the 14 days then you can issue a 28 day notice of termination and evict her.

Apologies just realised I put that question into this thread. Thought it was general and apologies to the OP.
Thanks for the advice.

beauf

What he said, go by the rules. And issue proper notice. Dribs and drabs means late to me.

beauf

Zulu wrote: »

...it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Tenants overstaying or, leaving the LL out of pocket isn't uncommon. But I'm probably telling you something you already know.

Artful_Badger

Zulu wrote: »

Frankly I don't care if I come across as a "prick". I've been far too sound already. All he needs to do is pay his rent, which right now, he isn't doing.
I'm issuing an arrears letter. I'll tell him it's just a precaution to cover myself and he can ignore it as he's going to pay by the end of the month.

Ultimately we aren't friends, this is a business arrangement. I don 't see why I should continue to give; why I should continue to further expose myself. Fair is fair, and currently I'm the only one playing fair here.

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

D3PO

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

That's not correct. If he pays before the end of the month like he has agreed to then he will have NO RIGHT to evict him nor does he have any intention to.

The OP is a landlord not a close personal friend of the tenants. I expect landlords to be professional.

That means knowing the rules and regulations about being a landlord, ensuring that the tenants rights are obeyed , that things are fixed in a timely manner when required to etc, but equally being professional means they should follow the appropriate steps to ensure there business interest in being managed in the appropriate fashion. Issuing a letter of arrears for late rent is just that.

I cant understand why tenants would get upset at the receipt of a letter of arrears. It simply states you have 14 days to clear them or eviction proceedings will begin.

If you intend to pay in the 14 days you should see if for what it is. The LL covering their back to ensure their goodwill isn't abused.

Artful_Badger

D3PO wrote: »

That's not correct. If he pays before the end of the month like he has agreed to then he will have NO RIGHT to evict him nor does he have any intention to.

The OP is a landlord not a close personal friend of the tenants. I expect landlords to be professional.

That means knowing the rules and regulations about being a landlord, ensuring that the tenants rights are obeyed , that things are fixed in a timely manner when required to etc, but equally being professional means they should follow the appropriate steps to ensure there business interest in being managed in the appropriate fashion. Issuing a letter of arrears for late rent is just that.

I cant understand why tenants would get upset at the receipt of a letter of arrears. It simply states you have 14 days to clear them or eviction proceedings will begin.

If you intend to pay in the 14 days you should see if for what it is. The LL covering their back to ensure their goodwill isn't abused.

I picked it up from statements from the LL about (protecting himself) as the tenant not paying due rent for another number of weeks. In that case the 14 days would be over before the arrears were cleared meaning that even though the LL had agreed about the late payment the tenant would have ignored the 14 days to clear the arrears. Putting the LL in the position to evict him if he was so inclined (which they have already mentioned because the tenant asked to change the due date of the rent).

There is no issue about receiving a letter about arrears, the issue is about a letter being issued to clear arrears a day after agreeing the date of payment putting the LL in a position to evict the tenant at his discretion.

If I have picked it up wrong though I apologise.

D3PO

the LL says tenant asked to pay 6 weeks towards the end of the month when they get paid which would be less than 14 days.

I don't think the OP has any intention to use this to evict unless the 6 weeks rent doesn't materialize.

brownej

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

I was wondering this too.
It appears that the OP has agreed to a change in the terms of the lease with regard to the date of paying the rent. As part of this change in the agreement the OP has agreed to accept 6 weeks rent at the end of the month to cover the areers.
Issusing a 14 day late payment letter in this case appears to be vindictive and deceitful on behalf of the Landlord as they have already agreed to accept the change to the lease agreement. If I was the tenant I would be very annoyed.