Husband content to not work

LegacyUser

Hi all

Long story really that's been brewing for a few years now. My husband was laid off 4 years ago and remains unemployed. he is not entitled to any form of sw relief/dole etc due to my earnings so we survive just on my wage. My problem is this - I've always kind of know that he wasn't really a 'worker bee', he would always take days off/ring in sick even when he was working. Now, since he has been made unemployed he bemoans the fact to everybody that he cannot find work - no work out there but the truth is he doesn't bother looking for work at all. He is constantly telling me how he wishes he could help out etc as I work 6 sometimes 7 days a week but yet he doesn't even google jobs, although he will google everything else under the sun. He tells all our friends how tough it is trying to look for work and I say nothing but honestly in 4 years he hasn't once applied for a job - I have applied for jobs for him and told him about them but he hasn't actually applied himself. I got him enrolled in a course as I felt that it was unhealthy to be home all the time and he loves this course, it's one day a week and he has a great laugh etc the course was ultimately to help him get a job but he just uses it to socialize with people. Throughout the years he has also had quite a history of 'illness' that doesn't exist. Roughly every six months or so he comes up with some vague illness - heart problems, lung problems, chest issues etc and not once has any doctor found anything. He will ring his family and tell them that he has a 'lung problem' and is waiting on an appointment for doctor, they'll all be worried and then he'll go to doc and get tests done and nothing there - low and behold the pain he has been feeling disappears. He did this even when he was working and used it to take a week or two of work here and there. I can't quite describe it but he doesn't have any problem lets say organizing a night out with friends for us both - knowing that I will have to scramble around to come up with money, he doesn't have any problems taking money all the time for various things. My friends husband is also unemployed and he finds it very hard to not have his own money and own independence but my husband seems to thrive on it. He is happy out and I know some people will come back and ask is he depressed - I have spent years trying to find indications of depression but honest to god I can't ,he's great at home in that he has taken on all chores to do with the house i.e washing etc and he seems to just like this role. Problem is I can't afford to keep a housekeeper - we are up to our necks in debt, when he was made unemployed I had to take on our loan and pay off the two cars as well as keeping an expensive mortgage paid. I am pretty sure at this stage that i'm suffering the effects of stress both physically and mentally - If i'm not working i'm trying to get some sleep somewhere, i'm exhausted and I'm becoming resigned to being his carer/keeper for the rest of my life. I love him but I have to be honest and say that I just don't respect him.

How can I change this situation? will it change

NicoleL88

OP, that is a terrible burden to have been bearing for the past four years.

He's your husband, not your child. You shouldn't have to provide for both of you. I understand times are tough, but four years without a job? And he's not even bothering to look for one either? No way.

Going solely by your post, he needs a good, swift kick up the arse.

Have you sat down and had a serious discussion with him about this?

Merkin

He's behaving more like a dependent. Have you actually brought this up with him and told him how you're at breaking point? I don't even know how he has any self respect having you keep him like this, surely he sees what strain you are under?

Fresh Pots

Tell him to get off his hole and start printing out Cvs

MouseTail

There are no children? This is unacceptable OP, I don't know how you have any respect left for him, it certainly sounds like he has no respect for you.

Time to get tough, cancel sky, cancel broadband, be mean with 'pocket money' for him. Tell him you can no longer afford it. He is a man child. I would be issuing ultimatums and following through on them, but I realise you may not be quite as intolerant as me!

ABajaninCork

Tell him the pocket money stops now. If he wants a night out, then let him earn the money to pay for it! Same thing for anything he wants. See how quick he'll look for a paying job then...

gcypress

unregistered wrote: »

How can I change this situation? will it change

The situation won't change,there are no jobs,it's that simple.There are people topping themselves left,right and center because they are out of work or can't find any.
Your husband was a "worker bee",he worked (like everybody else-we had 4% unemployment before the crash) before the worst depression that has ever been seen struck.The fact that he doesn't even look for work is irrelevant,I know people with 2 degrees who spent the last 2 years looking for work and have given up because there is none,what's the point in looking for something that isn't there?The real unemployment rate is near 25% and 100,00 emigrated last year and you wonder why he doesn't bother looking for work and complains to his family that there is none?I'd like to see how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
Tbh though you seem pissed with him for lots of things so maybe your just looking for reasons to be angry with him?

NicoleL88

gcypress wrote: »

there are no jobs,it's that simple

There are plenty of job advertising sites with pages and pages of listings that prove you wrong. My guess is that the OP's husband doesn't want to work, even if it'd just be part-time or working in a shop.

gcypress wrote: »

The fact that he doesn't even look for work is irrelevant

No, it's actually completely relevant. He should be making an active effort to secure any type of employment for himself. Why should he be able to sit back and have her bust her ass to support him as well as herself?

gcypress wrote: »

The real unemployment rate is near 25% and 100,00 emigrated last year

The "real" unemployment rate is closer to 14% and the emigration number was closer to 80,000.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/unemployment-rate
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/emigration-at-famine-levels-as-200-leave-country-each-day-28952883.html

gcypress wrote: »

maybe your just looking for reasons to be angry with him?

Either you didn't read her post properly or you're the OP's husband, because I'm failing to see how you could be siding with him in any logical way.

campo

Plain and simple your hubby is taking advantage of you , fair enough not a lot of jobs out there but no excuse for not at least looking for work

My better half is basically supporting the household at the moment and I feel awful about it but I make sure everyday to look and apply for work

ted1

as above there is plenty of jobs out there. no one i know is unemployed even though many where made redundant.

either he is lazy or very disheartened. if its the first cut him loose, if its the latter support him and get him out there.

You hear people banging on about putting out 100 CVs when really each CV should be tailored made to the specific job. with a individual cover letter and a follow up phone call.

it may be worth your while getting him to hire a professional servicw who can coach him in interviews and CV building

JustAThought

O.P.

What kind of work was your husband doing ? Was he specialised? Was it just a run-of-the-mill -anyone could go it job? Was he working in an area he had trained in but been moved to a different type of role etc?

Sounds like he wasnt really enjoying the work -( all the sick days etc) so I wonder why? Might be of interest to peruse this? Did he have other jobs he'd preferred -why ( people/responsibility/culture etc). Maybe that might help define why he seems to not be too keen to seek work ?

It can be very difficult to see your CV when tou have sent so many - or got nowhere with it. Can you help with that -or get a colleague maybe to help & update/change. Many eyes etc. perhaps there's something there that could help give him a new edge .

With all the hypercondria it kinda sounds like he is a bit depressed. Or maybe he has a hidden underlying hidden illness. At least he's visiting the doctor & getting it checked out! Many depressed people are experts at hiding their feelings ; how often do we hear that they were in great form/we never knew anything was wrong. Maybe there is nothing wrong -maybe he is enjoying his projects & bumbling about. If he didn't like his work I suppose he would bd enjoying not going in /the drudge/commute /hassle etc.

You say he loved the course -fantastic!you were right on your insights on that. At least he's social & attending it & enjoying it -it will stand to him in the long run.

As others have said, it's important to share how difficult you find it -the bills, the stress, but mostly the worry that he dosn't share the concern or see your stress. But if he really does see this & can't find work , as tens of thousands can't, you don't want him feeling even worse as a consequence. So tread carefully. Remember that if you had kids you would/might probably hope that he could take on that central role sometime too for you -it's rare that any man gets a break from responsibilities these days. He dosn't realise how lucky he is!!

It's easy to get lost in " research" side attractions on the Internet. Start a log - get him to start a spreadsheet or paper -Job application number, date, company, role, applied for, follow up notes . when the list is there for him to refer to its easier to see how the days can pass by with lots researched but less applied for.

Be gentle. Remember you used to love him. He might be illl or depressed , and one a day dies from suicide in this country.

LegacyUser

Hi OP

Yes, there are jobs. I just want to address this issue briefly first because there seems to be some other force at work here.

2 years ago I left my job after I found myself suffering from severe work-related stress and anxiety. I'd been in the same job for 7 years, industry 10 years and just couldn't do it anymore.

I never entertained the idea of not working and within 4 weeks had a new job in a different industry because I was very proactive in applying and working hard to approach positions with specifically tailored cover letters etc.

I took a drop in income and then did a course in cake decorating for a few months. I now sell 2-3 wedding cakes a month for around 5-700 each. Needs must. Where there is a will there is a way.

I also deal a little with recruiting in my job and when we are hiring the calibre of applications is very poor. I think a lot of people apply for jobs to give themselves some form of validation but actually have no intent on working.

Now, your husband.

I don't know what your levels of communication are like because it sounds like you haven't really properly clamped down on him for this. What he is doing is selfish and unfair.

It sounds like you are really resenting him (understandable), resentment is poison to a relationship so I'm sure your relationship dynamic is being affected despite it not being addressed in major way

When I didn't work for 4 weeks I totally lost my sense of purpose, I felt very empty.

He's obviously getting this from you or maybe the tasks he does at home.

Maybe tell him you are physically and mentally drained. You can't do it alone anymore and as someone suggested temporarily cut off his pocket money and extras. If he's happy to behave like a kid then you have little option but to treat him like that.

I don't mean to suggest putting your marriage on dangerous ground (although he's already doing that) but would you be so bold as to tell him directly you find it difficult to respect him as a man with how he's living off you?

Maybe he's oblivious? Give him something to think about.

4 years seems like an excessive amount of time to have laboured this

stupidpiggy

Hi OP

Yes, there are jobs. I just want to address this issue briefly first because there seems to be some other force at work here.

2 years ago I left my job after I found myself suffering from severe work-related stress and anxiety. I'd been in the same job for 7 years, industry 10 years and just couldn't do it anymore.

I never entertained the idea of not working and within 4 weeks had a new job in a different industry because I was very proactive in applying and working hard to approach positions with specifically tailored cover letters etc.

I took a drop in income and then did a course in cake decorating for a few months. I now sell 2-3 wedding cakes a month for around 5-700 each. Needs must. Where there is a will there is a way.


I also deal a little with recruiting in my job and when we are hiring the calibre of applications is very poor. I think a lot of people apply for jobs to give themselves some form of validation but actually have no intent on working.

Now, your husband.

I don't know what your levels of communication are like because it sounds like you haven't really properly clamped down on him for this. What he is doing is selfish and unfair.

It sounds like you are really resenting him (understandable), resentment is poison to a relationship so I'm sure your relationship dynamic is being affected despite it not being addressed in major way

When I didn't work for 4 weeks I totally lost my sense of purpose, I felt very empty.

He's obviously getting this from you or maybe the tasks he does at home.

Maybe tell him you are physically and mentally drained. You can't do it alone anymore and as someone suggested temporarily cut off his pocket money and extras. If he's happy to behave like a kid then you have little option but to treat him like that.

I don't mean to suggest putting your marriage on dangerous ground (although he's already doing that) but would you be so bold as to tell him directly you find it difficult to respect him as a man with how he's living off you?

Maybe he's oblivious? Give him something to think about.

4 years seems like an excessive amount of time to have laboured this.

When he complains to friends and family about there being no jobs would you expose him? Or maybe don't humiliate him but when your both alone maybe ask him why he says these things when he's not looking for work?

Obviously he's not pulling the wool over your eyes so maybe you need to call a spade a spade!!

Best of luck

Oh sorry this came up twice, it said I couldn't post unreg, so logged in but obviously it went through the first time!!

Taltos

gcypress is taking a one months break from PI/RI, we have also removed many off the posts here discussing a topic that is not suitable. gcypress even if this topic was in the correct forum you need to change how you respond, passive agressive insults or just being plain uncivil is against many charters on this site and if you continue to post in this manner it will see you banned from not just PI.

Can I remind everyone that this is not a discussion forum.
Do not get drawn into off topic debates - they result in bans. If you have an issue with a post/poster please just report them and ignore all subsequent posts.

Thanks
Taltos

December2012

I suggest you both go talk to a marriage counsellor together, who will help you understand each others position. Right now you're both speaking different languages to each other.

You need to understand each other to change this.

Otherwise he will just do the same half arsed attempt and you will get more and more annoyed.

LegacyUser

Hi all and thanks for the replies.

In response to some of the issues raised.

I do love my husband and I want to make it clear that i think he is a good man generally speaking - he is and always has been quite self centered in ways. To the Poster justathought, I agree a lot with what you have said and I think it's all gone on so long as I have desperately tried to tread carefully with him -I am all to well aware of the dangers in men of his age being depressed, perhaps this is why it's carried on so long. Re stopping his pocket money etc - that really isn't an option for me and the reason is that I don't want to exert that kind of control over him. I already feel absolutely awful when i'm in a week where there is literally no money I can't even hand him the €20 I have put by for him - I just leave it on the dresser - I don't want him or me to feel like i'm his mammy handing him pocket money for being a good lad!. It's a very thin line at the moment for me - I am incredibly frustrated and stressed out yet I have to be very careful of how I say all of it to him. At the moment I am just not saying anything because i'm afraid if I open my mouth it will all come flooding out. A few weeks ago he got offered a couple of days work he would come out of it with €100 - not much at all. I said I thought it was a good idea as at least it would get him out of the house but I said look it's your decision - he opted not to do it. Ultimately I kind of know that even if he were to get work, he would find some problem with it, either the other workers or the drive etc etc - he has always come up with excuses.

Just to clarify, he is a lovely sweet guy, the only negative really I have is in relation to his 'work ethic' in all other ways I love him it's the respect I have a problem with.

Sleepy

Normally I'd castigate anyone for with-holding sex in a relationship in order to get their own way but I'd have to wonder how you're finding him sexually attractive at the moment anyway? Even if it's not true, telling him that you don't see him as sexually attractive any more since he's emasculated himself to become a stepford wife might get him off his arse? Particularly if you followed through on it...

MagicMarker

OP. You're going to HAVE to say something, because the alternative is you supporting this man for the rest of your life.

He's not making any effort to find work and is even turning it down, if you aren't going to say anything then what are you expecting to achieve by posting about it here?

ABajaninCork

MagicMarker wrote: »

OP. You're going to HAVE to say something, because the alternative is you supporting this man for the rest of your life.

He's not making any effort to find work and is even turning it down, if you aren't going to say anything then what are you expecting to achieve by posting about it here?

He's good turning down E100 for a couple of days work! I wish I could do that...

But MM's right on the money. Like it or not, you're acting as his mother, and not his WIFE!! He's acting like a teenager, not a married man in a PARTNERSHIP. Which this isn't. I don't understand why you're prepared to put up with this.

Merkin

unregistered wrote: »

A few weeks ago he got offered a couple of days work he would come out of it with €100 - not much at all.

No, it's not much at all but it's five week's worth of pocket money isn't it? This all boils down to him being a. sinfully lazy and b. obviously considering himself to be above the working classes. I think him refusing to take the job, even just so he can use that money to treat you to a dinner in gratitude says an awful lot about the man. He is obviously quite comfortable with you supporting him and has a very obvious sense of entitlement. And while you may not want to rock the boat, the only other option is to remain as is and you working yourself to the bone while he sits idly on his arse at home waiting for hand-outs. No, just no. You need to address this head-on if you don't want it to continue.

unregistered

unregistered wrote: »

Re stopping his pocket money etc - that really isn't an option for me and the reason is that I don't want to exert that kind of control over him.

You already have complete financial control over him and you always will as long as you're with him and he's refusing to work and pay his way.

unregistered wrote: »

I already feel absolutely awful when i'm in a week where there is literally no money I can't even hand him the €20 I have put by for him - I just leave it on the dresser

Just re-read that last bit there.

unregistered wrote: »

I don't want him or me to feel like i'm his mammy handing him pocket money for being a good lad!

You seem to be a bit in denial of the arrangment you have with your husband. You ARE handing him pocket money, he appears to be incapable of earning his own money so is your dependant.

unregistered wrote: »

A few weeks ago he got offered a couple of days work he would come out of it with €100 - not much at all

Not much at all? Five weeks "pocket money", no? Are you trying to justify him turning down the work?

unregistered wrote: »

I said I thought it was a good idea as at least it would get him out of the house but I said look it's your decision - he opted not to do it. Ultimately I kind of know that even if he were to get work, he would find some problem with it, either the other workers or the drive etc etc - he has always come up with excuses.

unregistered wrote: »

How can I change this situation? will it change

Your husband can't make it any clearer to you ... he has no intention of working as long as you are putting up with it. So no, it will not change ... not unless you do something about it. He, as you say, is perfectly "content" with this situation, you are not.

Angeles

ABajaninCork wrote: »

He's good turning down E100 for a couple of days work! I wish I could do that...

Lack of info on that.. 2-3 days of 8-10 hours work for 100eur isn't exactly incentive for someone who's in what appears to be a deep comfort zone to then actively work.

This to me screams of other issues with him!
What exactly 'does' he do with his time Op?
Is he playing games all day? does he lift a finger around the house? does he laze about on the couch?
All these are relative in how to approach this.
A strong lack of motivation in doing anything could be a red flag. Does he have a lot of weight? or able to keep healthy? Does he take enjoyment out of anything or just prefers to sit and wait for hand outs?

Calibos

Whats wrong with being a house husband if he is running the household and cooking etc. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, No?

Merkin

Calibos wrote: »

Whats wrong with being a house husband if he is running the household and cooking etc. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, No?

This would be fine if this arrangement had been a bilateral agreement between both parties. This is not the case. The man has been unemployed for years, hasn't bothered his arse looking for work and sits idly by while his poor wife is at breaking point trying to keep the show on the road. A whole different proposition from one partner being a stay-at-home mother or father if it is agreed that it is sustainable and best for all parties concerned. This is clearly not the case in this instance.

MagicMarker

Calibos wrote: »

Whats wrong with being a house husband if he is running the household and cooking etc. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, No?

Nothing wrong with being a house husband if there are kids involved and significant costs are being saved by having one parent at home, that actually makes sense.

But a young couple, heavily in debt, with no kids with the OP working her arse off and her partner not even attempting to find work? Just... no.

DoozerT6

Don't pussy-foot around it any more. Call him out on it in front of his family. Next time someone asks him about work, just say 'X hasn't even looked for a job in the last four years despite what he tells ye. I'm 100% carrying the can financially and he's happy to let me do that and takes pocket money from me every week. I'm begging him to apply for jobs but he won't, he says he's sick but he's not, and my heart is broken with it all, so if you can beg him to look for a job then you're better than me.... Now, would you like gravy with your roast spuds?'

This WILL cause an almighty row but at least it's all out in the open then. If your husband continues to laze around and live off you, then it will also be apparent to his family. This may shame him into actually getting up off his lazy, entitled hole and finding a job, even if it's a few shifts in a Tesco or something.

Others may disagree with this approach. *dons flame-proof suit*

LegacyUser

Thanks to all for the comments.

As I said he isn't lazy at home, he cleans, cooks etc does everything that i would do at home - that's all very much appreciated but the truth is I just can't afford to have a house-keeper. Re the pocket money I am all to well aware that I am giving him pocket money but it makes me cringe - not because I hate handing over money, it's because if the shoe were on the other foot I would hate to be getting pocket money from my spouse - that would kill me. I am fiercely independent and always always made my own money. There is resentment yes on my part, mainly because I earn a fairly okay wage that is more than enough to cover my half of everything and then have money left over to spend on hobbies or clothes etc but now I can't do anything except pay all the bills - that said we are married and I understand that his debts are mine. I never have money for clothes or going out or just normal extras. He's not greedy, he doesn't take money and fritter it away or anything he just doesn't contribute to the household funds in any way shape or form. It's hard to voice all of this to him as I am genuinely afraid that I will say something over the top and cause him to spiral into depression... or worse. It's also hard to stay mad at him as he really is very kind in so many other ways - it's just this lazy attitude that he has always had. His mother has a similar attitude - it's like they think that the world owes them a living. She'll say things about foreigners coming into the country and taking social welfare out of the taxes she's paid all her life - now she's never worked a day in her life, that kind of nonsense! I'm not making excuses for him and i'm not saying he's all wrong either.... it's tough, i'm 32 and I feel like i'm 50 - I want kids at some point but can't afford them at the moment plus with this going on I don't feel that it's a good idea.

ABajaninCork

Angeles wrote: »

Lack of info on that.. 2-3 days of 8-10 hours work for 100eur isn't exactly incentive for someone who's in what appears to be a deep comfort zone to then actively work.

This to me screams of other issues with him!
What exactly 'does' he do with his time Op?
Is he playing games all day? does he lift a finger around the house? does he laze about on the couch?
All these are relative in how to approach this.
A strong lack of motivation in doing anything could be a red flag. Does he have a lot of weight? or able to keep healthy? Does he take enjoyment out of anything or just prefers to sit and wait for hand outs?

Well -the E100 will probably be CIH, that isn't exactly money you can turn down. Especially as things are so tight financially. But from little acorns, big trees grow. What's to say the husband won't be offered further work on the back of that?

Nope! I say cut him off in his prime now. Cease the BB, no Sky, no pocket money for going out and no more scrimping and scraping, just so that his 'manly pride' isn't hurt. If he wants to behave like a child, then I'd treat him as one.

stupidpiggy

Erm, I don't mean to be blunt but I don't understand why you started this thread if you are happy to keep handing over your hard earned cash when you have every reason to stop.

It would seem to me fairly simple that by cutting his pocket money you will be giving him an incentive to go out and work.

It's not the nicest thing to have to do but he's not giving you much choice honestly.

I'm sure he is great and you do love him but he's behaving like a parasite.

Obviously you are getting some form of gratification from him being dependent on you, otherwise surely the pocket money would be the first thing to go?

I'd understand your stance on this if he was out looking for jobs and not having any luck with it but he's not, he's just totally taking advantage

Nothing changes if nothing changes.....

Faith

Have you actually explained all of this to him, OP? It's not clear if you've sat him down and clearly explained just how much this is negatively affecting you.

If you can't bring yourself to do that, then at the very least print out this thread and give it to him to read.

LegacyUser

unregistered wrote: »

It's hard to voice all of this to him as I am genuinely afraid that I will say something over the top and cause him to spiral into depression... or worse.

if you dont say something to him now then you will eventually snap and lose the plot with him and it will come out far worse

LegacyUser

Hi

RE the pocket money, it's really just a couple of quid to put in his car for petrol when going to his class, lunch money for the day he's in the course etc - it's not pocket money to say buy something in a shop. I can cut off pocket money no problem - i'll just have to put petrol in his car etc so it's really the same difference.

Have I talked to him about this we had a blazing row last week because he was coming up with some new illness - that's really what kicked me off again. About six months ago after a lot of visits to the doctor with a phantom illness I sat him down and explained that i can't keep letting him go to the doctor and let people worry when there's nothing wrong - he agreed that he tended to exaggerate symptoms etc & said it would't happen again. Last week he started again and I just lost it. I told him how stressed I was, I explained that I'm not sure how I can keep going like this and then I told him that I was going to act like he did - in other words just not be bothered with things, I told him i'd let the mortgage go - not pay it and see what happens (not true as I can't do something like that) His answer is to agree with me and say he'll change etc then every day he's texting me to see when i'll be home because he has dinner made etc - house is spotless. I am calmer this week and so wanted to get peoples opinions before I sit down with him and try to explain in a rational way that he will understand as I know him well and I know that I didn't get through to him last week - he thinks this is just me overworked and flipping out through tiredness. The purpose of my post I guess was [1] to see if people think I am over reacting to a situation that he finds himself in (unemployment). [2] It's also a format for me to put my thoughts down on paper and face some things that I have been in denial about. I really above all want to feel pride for him, I want to look at him and know that he would do anything to support me/possible family, at the moment no I don't feel anything close to that. Thanks to all for opinions, it seems that yes I am part of the problem and I have to address my own issues there. Realistically I will not leave him, I love him and married him for good and for bad, I simply want to learn a method or something that will help me to help him and ultimately us. Perhaps counseling is a route? who knows - at the moment I can't afford it. Thanks to all posters

LegacyUser

Now ... Imagine down the road ... From the situation being financially tight, your general resentment at your other half just refusing to engage career-wise ... you get more and more stressed and you fall seriously ill, need a substantial time out of work and the pay-cheques stop coming in ... (I certainly don't wish this to happen to you or anyone else but it's just an example - the same could apply if you were to get run over by a bus tomorrow ... ).
What is he going to do ? Nurse you, sit by your bedside, cuddle you, and tell you he loves you ... and what are you going to do .... live purely from love and fresh water ?!?!?!???

As things stand, he is in a cocoon, happy, keeps the house tidy/clean at his own rhythm, doesn't have to go out and work and interface with people, gets his pocket money and all of that thinking you are all happy out ! How childish ...
The longer he waits, the more inept he is becoming to a working life and the more difficult it would be for him re-integrate a system.

This mind-set of his could be caused by a multitude of factors.

- some kind of a depression ? => Being made redundant is not flattering for one's ego as it might give the underlying feeling of being inadequate though it's got nothing to do with competence in a lot of cases (mind you ... I have seen situations where redundancy was also used to eliminate bad elements ...).

- his education ? => you mention in a previous post that his mother has the same type of ethics ... how does he react to her statements ?

- laziness ? => some people are just lazy ...

One thing is sure is that, imo, he is lacking respect to all around. To you for accepting to be carried like that, to the people he would have worked for for taking unjustified sick leave ...., to his family and his friends for telling them lies, to himself for lying and probably convincing himself he is looking for work ...

If I were you, I'd try to talk to him (it's not quite clear whether you have broached the subject and what his reaction was) and give him an ultimatum in order work out this lack of motivation, where it is coming from and 'treat' it if possible with GP, counselling, tablets or whatever.
Of course, if you rock that boat, there is a risk that he gets further depressed (if it is depression) before things get better but as it stands ... but if you don't rock that boat ... you are going to become more and more frustrated ...

stupidpiggy

OP...you sound like a really nice person.

Too nice perhaps!

Maybe you yourself would benefit from exercising your boundaries a bit more.

Fair point about petrol for his car and lunch but what about going out with his friends, does he do that? Does he socialise outside of the house?

I agree with what someone said about cutting the tv stations off and the Internet although I could see him using the latter as a reason he can't find jobs.

Maybe organise a day when your off work to both sit down together and do up a CV and apply for loads of jobs. A whole day of focused applications.

Don't tell him it's something you want make clear as the person who keeps food in his belly and a roof over his head that this is now a complete necessity and him not contributing is no longer acceptable! Sit with him and go through the jobs together, you might be able to get him excited about his prospects and what's open to him.

I wish you all the best with however this plays out

MouseTail

He is workshy. He was workshy even when he had a job, and both the recession and an accommodating partner has allowed him to string this laziness out over 4 long years.

I am struggling to see your reluctance to stop enabling him. Is he signing for credits? If he is he needs to get off his ass and do a decent course. Being out of the workforce for 4 years makes him unemployable unless he gets something on his CV, either upskilling, volunteering or an internship.

Nothing is going to change here unless you start getting assertive. Nothing. You haven't commented on making his life a little less cushy by cutting off sky or Internet. Why are you paying for the tax / insurane / petrol for his car?

LegacyUser

At this stage why whould your husband change his ways when he know you will keep supporting him?
Your letting him away with treating you like a mug so why would he change things.

At this stage I would do the following
1. Cut off sky.
2. Tell your husband that his car is being sold - you can't afford 2 cars on one salary.
3. Ring all his freinds and tell them that your husband will not be going on nights out as you can afford to pay for this. Tell them if he was working he could afford this - his freind will say this to him.
4. Get his parents, brothers and sisters over to your house for a Sunday dinner and say the following
I know your expecting me to tell you I am pregnant but I can't have children as my husband is to ****ing lazy to work. Let them know that he is making no effort to get a job. Tell them all if your husband does not get work within in the next 3 months he can move back in with his mother and father and they can support him.

Your husband will not be happy with this but he needs to know that unless he gets work you are not going to support him for much longer.

December2012

Go to counselling - you should be able to talk to him without having the threat of depression hanging over you.

campo

Can I ask is it the fact he is not working or not attempting to find work that is causing the friction

If its that he is not working then your issues are deeper because even if he does start looking for work ( which he should ) it could be a very long time before he gets a job ,

ABajaninCork

campo wrote: »

Can I ask is it the fact he is not working or not attempting to find work that is causing the friction

If its that he is not working then your issues are deeper because even if he does start looking for work ( which he should ) it could be a very long time before he gets a job ,

Reading over the OP, it would indicate that the husband is refusing to look for work, inventing various excuses as to why he cannot do so.

Not being able to find work is not the issue here. Refusing to find work and turning down work is.

Gooner111

Hey OP

Not 100% but shouldn't your income be benefitting from him not working. As a married couple don't you gain his credits and rateband which means your take home pay is better than what it would if single. If correct then he is contributing in a non-direct way. He cooks and cleans etc so is contributing to the household in a direct way.

As a married couple surely any money after bills etc is between you. I find it strange that you keep referring to it as pocket money. If he was out of work but actively looking would you be calling it pocket money?

Based on your posts he really doesn't want to work. If he doesn't then honestly you will have to decide if you can live with that. And as pointed out you are not satisfied with that. You need to talk to him. And explain that to him. Be direct and honest about your feelings with him.

freshpopcorn

You basically need to talk to your husband and tell him that your finding it hard to cope and that you need him to find work. You got a lot of good advice here
One bit I would advice you to ignore tough(in my opinion) is not to shame him in front of his friends/family, their is a good chance his family will back him up and secondly if he you do this you might make him feel totally useless in front of people he knows and he might do something stupid if he was feeling depressed/down.

The Corinthian

OP, the situation you're facing is extremely commonplace; it's just that normally the genders are replaced.

As someone said, in a marriage, one elects to stay at home and be the homemaker, is a bilateral decision, this is not an issue, but the reality is that very often it's unilateral - I've lost count of how many husbands have moaned about this to me, over a pint, in the past. Their spouses use "the house is spotless" defence too.

Problem is you're married, as as much as you don't want for him to be a dependant, he is. For life. Were this to wreck your marriage and end in divorce, you'll still be obliged to pay him twoards maintaining this lifestyle. For life.

Ultimately, you can't force him to change and any serious attempt to escalate things, such as withholding sex, could simply serve to destroy the marriage and leave you paying him substantial spousal maintenance - this, unfortunately, has been the conclusion reached by every single man who's ever complained, into his pint, to me about this.

So attempting to force him, giving him ultimatums or 'punishing' him are a bad idea. Because of how marriage works, the dependant spouse ultimately holds all the cards.

However, the one thing in your favour, because we still live in a sexist World, is that men are still largely judged in society by our capacity to earn or provide, and no matter how ever much you think he's happy with the current situation, a tiny part of him is likely to be pricked by this.

As such there are two approaches you can take to encourage him. First is that he goes back to education - be it a degree or even just a Fas course - that would lead to a career that he would better enjoy than the one he previously had. Courses are easier to sell to such people than work, and can lead to actual employment, because sometimes the reason that such people have no interest in returning to work is because they hated the work they used to do.

The second approach is that he start his own business from home. This is very dependant on what his skill set is, and may never go beyond the level of him earning his own 'pocket money', but it's better than nothing.

Whatever strategy you suggest to him, you do need to take him aside and explain to him the unfair burden he's placing upon you, as part of the process.

LegacyUser

Hi all

Just taking on some of the queries.

Re the tax credits etc, I had never thought about it like that and it's a fair point. I guess for me the real problem here is not that we are struggling for money, i'll put it this way if he decided say that he wanted to go back to full time education 5 days a week I would be more than happy to support him for as long as it took because I would be content in myself that he had a goal or an aim in life which ultimately would improve both of our lives. It's not the money it really isn't - it's somehow knowing that he is coasting along waiting for me to improve our situation. I get no sense whatsoever that he is keen to improve my or his situation. I do consider my money his and when I say pocket money - I actually kind of dole out pocket money to both of us if you know what i mean - at the start of the week I allot spending money to him and me, i need more as I am driving in and out of work every day but generally speaking I have my own 'pocket money'. I have read some posts that say withold sex,withold money, shame him into doing more etc, tell his family. I will make it absolutely clear that I would never ever ever shame him on front of anybody, he is lazy yes but he does not deserve humiliation under any circumstances. As I said I do love him, he has many many good qualities this is just one issue that I can't seem to move on from. As for sex.... quite frankly that's on the decline at any rate because I am so tired all the time, when i'm home i drag my ass to bed and sleep, unfortunately I also do recognize that I am less attracted to him nowadays, possibly over this i'm not sure. I have tried to explain to him in small doses about what the problems are - he keeps repeating the mantra that there are no jobs out there, and that he is trying. I know he's very much in denial about things. I feel very sorry for him sometimes, even this week when we are barely talking I feel like I want to just hug him and tell him it will be okay - I know he is upset that we are barely talking as generally speaking we don't fight or have many issues and we've been married for over 10 years. If we had children perhaps I could accept that I would have a house husband and it would save on childcare costs etc etc so at that point yes I would be okay with it but at the moment we have no kids. I'm a pretty resilient individual but I do get a bit down about things now and again, at the end of the day I'm still a girl and when my friends husband buy them presents for birthdays or Christmas I get a pang of jealousy. My husband doesn't have a single penny to put to a Christmas present or birthday present -I'm aware that this is a bit of selfish expectation when people are struggling to put food on the table but it's just a little thing that gets me down sometimes.

I know I need to have a long chat with him i just need to wait until he is in a frame of mind where he can understand and not (as he has done in the past) come out of the conversation feeling like a victim. At the moment he considers himself a victim of the recession and I don't want to give him any more excuses to feel sorry for himself.

Thanks again to all - I was not sure about posting the issue here but I really did get some insights that I hadn't quite thought of before.

homemadecider

Hi OP,

Would you consider printing out this thread and giving it to him to read?

LegacyUser

Hi

Yes I am considering it - I know I need to shock him into something alright..... i'll read over it myself in full - i'm really concerned that i'm going to push it too far....at the back of my mind there is a depression concern.

Merkin

unregistered wrote: »

Hi

Yes I am considering it - I know I need to shock him into something alright..... i'll read over it myself in full - i'm really concerned that i'm going to push it too far....at the back of my mind there is a depression concern.

If there is a depression concern this can be addressed.

I do feel you're facilitating him a little bit I'm sorry to say. What motivation has he for things to change while you carry the can without question?

I'm genuinely curious as to why you think you'd "push it too far". Are you afraid of him? Or afraid of his reaction? You need to know that not one single thing you have said or any element of what you expect and wish for is unreasonable. You do know that right?

If you signed up for a mortgage together and are in a marriage together then unless agreed by both parties, you both need to contribute. This isn't about giving him a hard time or victimizing him, it's about you involuntarily taking on the role of foster mother and soul provider while he does nothing. It's totally unreasonable and you need to tell him enough is enough. I don't agree either in humiliating him or being publicly cruel - this is an issue between the two of you. By the same token, pussy-footing around him and taking the softly softly approach isn't going to cut it either.

I personally think there are jobs out there if you look hard enough - probably not a popular view to take but if you really really want to work then the jobs are there, simple as. I also think The Corinthian's idea of him setting up his own business is a wonderful idea. The only thing is, does your husband have sufficient drive and enterprise to get up off his arse and actually put something into it? I'm guessing probably not.....

You really need to grab the bull by the horns here and tell him enough is enough.

LegacyUser

Hi thanks for response. NO absolutely no fear of him or anything he is not someone I would ever be afraid of....... Okay I guess to clarify my position I have two real fears, the latter is one that I swear to god I have been worrying about for weeks. The first is that [1] he is depressed ( I don't really think so but perhaps? ) and perhaps by confronting him with everything he could get sick? [2] Now on reading other peoples posts I see that maybe I am a bit irrational in this... I hope I am. A few weeks ago I heard this statistic on the radio about spousal abuse in the current climate and how women now have more power in the home if they are working. Anyway this whole things was centered on how women abuse partners by controlling their money and giving them spending money etc there were a few other things mentioned about control etc and I realized that I actually seem to have full control in our house of everything..not because I want it but because he doesn't want it. At the back of my mind... have I ruined his confidence am I abusing the situation? . I'm not trying to elicit sympathy here from any posters or anything like that but as this thread has gone on and I have been forced to think about issues I am faced with the possibility that I am somewhat to blame for his situation- perhaps that's why I don;t want to confront him?. I basically saw that the role of 'breadwinner' come 'organiser' in the house needed to be filled and I jumped into the role because nobody else did. I just ploughed on for years in that role & maybe didn't give him an opportunity to redeem himself? I don't know but I know that something is stopping me from just sitting him down and as other posters have said - just hand him this thread? I'm afraid of something I just can't quite put my finger on it?

I'm really sorry to be rambling off on one - it wasn't my intention when I started posting - it's just that i'm trying to be honest and show both sides if I can? (do I even know his side though? )

Merkin

unregistered wrote: »

Now, since he has been made unemployed he bemoans the fact to everybody that he cannot find work - no work out there but the truth is he doesn't bother looking for work at all. He is constantly telling me how he wishes he could help out etc as I work 6 sometimes 7 days a week but yet he doesn't even google jobs, although he will google everything else under the sun. He tells all our friends how tough it is trying to look for work and I say nothing but honestly in 4 years he hasn't once applied for a job - I have applied for jobs for him and told him about them but he hasn't actually applied himself.

If anyone sounds in control here I would say he is. And you unfortunately are allowing him.

You sound like a very kind person, particularly being concerned about spousal abuse etc, but in all honestly he is being the one who is exploitative and manipulative, not you

Honey-ec

The Corinthian wrote: »

OP, the situation you're facing is extremely commonplace; it's just that normally the genders are replaced.

As someone said, in a marriage, one elects to stay at home and be the homemaker, is a bilateral decision, this is not an issue, but the reality is that very often it's unilateral - I've lost count of how many husbands have moaned about this to me, over a pint, in the past. Their spouses use "the house is spotless" defence too.

This isn't a gender issue, and I have no idea why you're trying to make it into one. The OP and her husband don't have any children. I do not know one, literally not a single childless couple where the woman has taken a unilateral decision to be a homemaker. I know if I'd tried it, my husband would have told me to sling my hook.

The OP's issue is that her husband has absolutely no work ethic whatsoever, and is happily leaving her to carry the financial and emotional can as a result. She has tried to explain the stress that this is causing her, and he's blithely ignoring this as well.

I get the impression that there are way more issues involved here than mere finances - if the OP was earning 50k a year more than she is now, her husband would still be a workshy hypochondriac who doesn't listen to her when she's trying to tell him she's upset.

That's the issue. Not this imaginary gender war that you seem to be convinced is lurking under every relationship in the developed world.

strandroad

OP, you mentioned that you want children. What does your husband think? Does he want them too, and how does he expect it to work out?

I understand that you've been working for a while so you're not a teenager and the matter may come to a head shortly due to basic biology. How does he see it at all, with children bringing all the extra expenses and forcing you to take a break from work to give birth? Is he oblivious to these aspects, or perhaps he's not as keen on having children as you are so he doesn't care? You may have more problems than just one here. If you don't speak up, how do you think you'll manage to have kids?

ddrtert

Honey-ec wrote: »

The OP's issue is that her husband has absolutely no work ethic whatsoever, and is happily leaving her to carry the financial and emotional can as a result.

Wow,lot of assumptions here,many I feel are totally incorrect.
Op's husband did work before the crash so saying he has no work ethic whatsoever seems a bit much really.
Also you don't know if he is happy or not,most unemployed are depressed.
Also I would say that the situation is leaving her to carry the can and not him like you say,I doubt he caused the crash.
The issue here isn't some imaginary sudden bout of laziness among Ireland's men but rather a quite significant economic crash which has led to the loss of quite a few jobs,mainly blokes jobs(250,000 in construction alone) which has left many unable to find work.
People saying there are jobs out there if you look hard enough are simply misunderstanding the extent of the problem.
Op you need to stop blaming yourself and your husband,neither of ye asked for this.