Convictions?

jamesr123

I was wondering what type of convictions would affect employment in a public sector job like say the Gardai. Say I was caught for no nct, brought to court and fined would that be considered a conviction? and would it be enough to rule you out of joining the gardai completely?

and Is it true as long as you recieve a fine in court you have a conviction?

Ken.

Most companies in Ireland don't count traffic offences against a person unless the job is driving and you need a full clean licence.

hullaballoo

jamesr123 wrote: »

and Is it true as long as you recieve a fine in court you have a conviction?

Yes, a court fine is as a result of a conviction. There is also a poor box donation, which may or may not be on foot of a conviction but if the word "fine" is in there anywhere, that's a conviction.

jamesr123

hullaballoo wrote: »

Yes, a court fine is as a result of a conviction. There is also a poor box donation, which may or may not be on foot of a conviction but if the word "fine" is in there anywhere, that's a conviction.

and if fined for anything that would disregard a person from being recruited to gardai, army?? ect......

Bepolite

jamesr123 wrote: »

and if fined for anything that would disregard a person from being recruited to gardai, army?? ect......

Traffic convictions are unlikely to count against you. The issue is there is so much competition for places it may come down to the recruitment officer looking at you in a poor light vs many others, or it may not. If the hypothetical person in this scenario hasn't already got the fine, get a solicitor on to this.

V.W.L 11

i was convicted of a section 52(careless driving) in early 2008 i have 5 previous in total,the odds of me getting a bus driving job are??????? nil perhaps?????

hullaballoo

jamesr123 wrote: »

and if fined for anything that would disregard a person from being recruited to gardai, army?? ect......

I don't know what the criteria are for recruitment for those jobs. Google would probable tell you but there is an Emergency Services forum that might be the best place to get your answers. There are also the Garda Recruitment and Other Emergency Services Recruitment sub-forums there.

V.W.L 11

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know what the criteria are for recruitment for those jobs. Google would probable tell you but there is an Emergency Services forum that might be the best place to get your answers. There are also the Garda Recruitment and Other Emergency Services Recruitment sub-forums there.

a garda sgt once told me non fatal traffic convictions wouldnt be an issue for the garda reserve so i assume the full time force would have the same procedures,I AM OPEN TO CORRECTION ON THIS

pk82

As an aside:

Lets say you are convicted and receive a fine and decide to go to jail instead of paying the fine.

Do you get a 'second' conviction for not paying the fine/going to jail?

V.W.L 11

pk82 wrote: »

As an aside:

Lets say you are convicted and receive a fine and decide to go to jail instead of paying the fine.

Do you get a 'second' conviction for not paying the fine/going to jail?

AFAIK no but it'll be noted as served a sentence in default i imagine

jamesr123

pk82 wrote: »

As an aside:

Lets say you are convicted and receive a fine and decide to go to jail instead of paying the fine.

Do you get a 'second' conviction for not paying the fine/going to jail?

I'm not sure but, I do know one of the lads on here is trying to join the garda reserves and is getting a lot of hassle because he didn't pay a fine and spend a night in prison:(

KwackerJack

jamesr123 wrote: »

I'm not sure but, I do know one of the lads on here is trying to join the garda reserves and is getting a lot of hassle because he didn't pay a fine and spend a night in prison:(

That would be me :mad:

Wasn't even a night it was 4/5 hours....Provided social welfare receipts, rent etc all to show that I simply could not pay the fine!

It annoys me that it could rule me/anyone out for the Gardai. I didn't kill or injure anyone and it does not mean that I wont make a good Guard!

pk82

in fact it may mean you would make a better Guard because you now know what it is like to be detained.

You will be conscious of this before you arrest someone and will make sure the arrest is correct and lawful.

You will also be conscious of people's situations - as your own e.g could not pay

By the way, was the time in jail in default recorded as a second conviction or 'time spent in default of payment' or similar??

KwackerJack

pk82 wrote: »

in fact it may mean you would make a better Guard because you now know what it is like to be detained.

You will be conscious of this before you arrest someone and will make sure the arrest is correct and lawful.

You will also be conscious of people's situations - as your own e.g could not pay

By the way, was the time in jail in default recorded as a second conviction or 'time spent in default of payment' or similar??

Was thinking the same myself...A guard from a wealthy/well to do etc background may not have any 'Street sense'!!

Iv'e learnt after years in different types of security that to be able to do that job properly you must understand the person you are dealing with and be able to come down to there level to gain there respect and for you to gain their's, Unless you can do that policing is extremely hard to accomplish!

No it was for non payment of a court fine fine for a traffic offence, I was told the traffic offence would not make any difference but the few hours in Prison would be up to HQ to decide

pk82

KwackerJack wrote: »

No it was for non payment of a court fine fine for a traffic offence, I was told the traffic offence would not make any difference but the few hours in Prison would be up to HQ to decide

Yes, but I was trying to ascertain if the time in jail was recorded on your record as an actual further conviction (in addition to the traffic offence) or 'just' as 'time served'

You do know that you can obtain your record under data protection from AGS Racecourse Rd Thurles?


It may be that they view the non payment as insolence towards the Court or 'making a stand' when in fact you could not pay.

Maybe they think you will think too much for yourself or be insubordinate if on the force???

Perhaps you could make it clear that you could not pay rather than would not??

KwackerJack

pk82 wrote: »

Yes, but I was trying to ascertain if the time in jail was recorded on your record as an actual further conviction (in addition to the traffic offence) or 'just' as 'time served'

You do know that you can obtain your record under data protection from AGS Racecourse Rd Thurles?


It may be that they view the non payment as insolence towards the Court or 'making a stand' when in fact you could not pay.

Maybe they think you will think too much for yourself or be insubordinate if on the force???

Perhaps you could make it clear that you could not pay rather than would not??

I must apply and see what is on record. I wrote a letter to HQ explaining the reasons so its out of my hands now I'm afraid!

Marquis de carabas

pk82 wrote: »

Yes, but I was trying to ascertain if the time in jail was recorded on your record as an actual further conviction (in addition to the traffic offence) or 'just' as 'time served'

You do know that you can obtain your record under data protection from AGS Racecourse Rd Thurles?


It may be that they view the non payment as insolence towards the Court or 'making a stand' when in fact you could not pay.

Maybe they think you will think too much for yourself or be insubordinate if on the force???

Perhaps you could make it clear that you could not pay rather than would not??

To be clear a traffic conviction is not considered a criminal conviction and imprisonment instead of payment of a fine will not be viewed as a prison sentence.

The courts in providing a choice do so to accommodate people in circumstances where they cannot pay. Whatever about it being a good approach or not it doesn't effect the original conviction.

To be honest I'm surprised anyone is having difficulty in applying as a reserve Garda because of it. The only thing I can think of is if it was left so long that a warrant was issued and this was viewed as an attempt to avoid responsibility for the matter.

pk82

How is time spent in jail in default of payment for a criminal offence (i.e not traffic) recorded?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Marquis de carabas

pk82 wrote: »

How is time spent in jail in default of payment for a criminal offence (i.e not traffic) recorded?

Exactly the same. The conviction is a fine or imprisonment for a length of time specified. The courts do not record how that conviction is dealt with.

It will make no difference in other words to say a background check. A conviction is what it is. It doesn't change

pk82

Marquis de carabas wrote: »

Exactly the same. The conviction is a fine or imprisonment for a length of time specified. The courts do not record how that conviction is dealt with.

It will make no difference in other words to say a background check. A conviction is what it is. It doesn't change

If that is the case, how did AGS find out about the time spent by Kwackerjack?

Or did he tell them? Not clear from the posts

Marquis de carabas

pk82 wrote: »

If that is the case, how did AGS find out about the time spent by Kwackerjack?

Or did he tell them? Not clear from the posts

Can't say but as I said if it was left past the specified date a warrant will be issued and it's up to the Gardai to execute that warrant

KwackerJack

pk82 wrote: »

If that is the case, how did AGS find out about the time spent by Kwackerjack?

Or did he tell them? Not clear from the posts

The super said it to me at my interview!!

pk82

KwackerJack wrote: »

The super said it to me at my interview!!

so the question is how did he know?

Was it recorded - contrary to what was said here

Or was it the Super from the same station that obtained the warrant for detention and he happened to know this or the arresting Gaurd?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

KwackerJack

pk82 wrote: »

so the question is how did he know?

Was it recorded - contrary to what was said here

Or was it the Super from the same station that obtained the warrant for detention and he happened to know this or the arresting Gaurd?

Recorded yea but recorded as what? Non payment or just jail is unknown to me

Obviously the Gardai have all my information, its how they use it is another thing!

pk82

KwackerJack wrote: »

Recorded yea but recorded as what? Non payment or just jail is unknown to me

Obviously the Gardai have all my information, its how they use it is another thing!

Could it have been local knowledge as suggested i.e. the Super knew the background?

You may obtain the records from Thurles to know definitively if it is recorded or not.

peterb23

sorry to hijack this thread...

i have a similar question, i was given the probation act for careless driving, left without a conviction and was also summonsed for possession of explosives (fireworks) at halloween about 10 years ago, this case was thrown out and no conviction given..

in terms of garda vetting, can i be refused a job in the emergency services even though i have NO criminal convictions, i have already passed all other requirements, physical , medical etc.. just waiting on garda vetting to come back from Tipperary but am anxious about the two incidents above even though i was never convicted, fined, arrested etc!!!!!! any info would be much appreciated

KwackerJack

A few friends know but who else's is anyone's guess!

I would say it was down on my file but even a fine for no tax ect is listed on your file so it may not stop me form being a Guard but when the super seen it he may have thought different

pk82

KwackerJack wrote: »

A few friends know but who else's is anyone's guess!

I would say it was down on my file but even a fine for no tax ect is listed on your file so it may not stop me form being a Guard but when the super seen it he may have thought different

Hmmm!

Did he question just the the offence OR did he specifically know abut the time served?

KwackerJack

peterb23 wrote: »

sorry to hijack this thread...

i have a similar question, i was given the probation act for careless driving, left without a conviction and was also summonsed for possession of explosives (fireworks) at halloween about 10 years ago, this case was thrown out and no conviction given..

in terms of garda vetting, can i be refused a job in the emergency services even though i have NO criminal convictions, i have already passed all other requirements, physical , medical etc.. just waiting on garda vetting to come back from Tipperary but am anxious about the two incidents above even though i was never convicted, fined, arrested etc!!!!!! any info would be much appreciated

No....Probation is sometimes given to people who are looking for work in the emergency services or high paying jobs etc. Its there to give you a chance to redeem yourself. My brother was in the Army and was in court for no NCT or tax and was given probation due to being in the defense forces + the fact he had paid his tax online and had the NCT booked, Guard was having a bad day maybe!

But even tax fine etc should not stop you from applying.

KwackerJack

pk82 wrote: »

Hmmm!

Did he question just the the offence OR did he specifically know abut the time served?

Nope he asked why so I explained. Maybe it was down as time instead of payment!

pk82

KwackerJack wrote: »

Nope he asked why so I explained. Maybe it was down as time instead of payment!

You mean he asked why you were in jail?

The point being he knew before you told him?

You may obtain the records and see what is on them.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

KwackerJack

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yea but it's not going to make any difference now if I have the records or not!

V.W.L 11

what does an adult caution show up as?!?

pk82

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

what does an adult caution show up as?!?

open to correction but it *possibly* could show up as an 'incident'

The records received show 'incidents' and 'court outcomes'

carzony

Lads, I have case coming up in about 3 weeks. Long-story short I bought a car off my mate, left it in his name and recieved a summons. I was wondering if fined how it would affect me?

I'm thinking of joining the reserve garda but i'm kinda waiting to see what happens with this case

KwackerJack

carzony wrote: »

Lads, I have case coming up in about 3 weeks. Long-story short I bought a car off my mate, left it in his name and recieved a summons. I was wondering if fined how it would affect me?

I'm thinking of joining the reserve garda but i'm kinda waiting to see what happens with this case

Summons for what exctly?

carzony

KwackerJack wrote: »

Summons for what exctly?

the exact wording is ''failure to report change of ownership (buyer)''

KwackerJack

carzony wrote: »

the exact wording is ''failure to report change of ownership (buyer)''

okay so and how long did you have said car :P

Can't see it being an issue unless you used it for illegal means :eek:

carzony

KwackerJack wrote: »

okay so and how long did you have said car :P

Can't see it being an issue unless you used it for illegal means :eek:

No, I just drove it about lol Came to a checkpoint one night and a few months later they were knocking at my door with a summons I had it for about 8 months i'd say.

Last thing I need is to get in trouble for somthing so stupid :mad::mad:

KwackerJack

carzony wrote: »

No, I just drove it about lol Came to a checkpoint one night and a few months later they were knocking at my door with a summons I had it for about 8 months i'd say.

Last thing I need is to get in trouble for somthing so stupid :mad::mad:

Cant see that being any trouble..although I didn't think mine would either lol

carzony

KwackerJack wrote: »

Cant see that being any trouble..although I didn't think mine would either lol

I'll just get the solicitor to have a look for me. I'v started a police studies course this week so i'd hate to have done all the work and be without a chance because of this shi.t. :rolleyes:

pk82

why did ownership not transfer?

carzony

pk82 wrote: »

why did ownership not transfer?

I bought it off a mate, He handed me the book and I just simply forgot to send it off.. Only thing I can think of is the guard must have checked the reg and wondered why it wasnt in my name..

V.W.L 11

pk82 wrote: »

open to correction but it *possibly* could show up as an 'incident'

The records received show 'incidents' and 'court outcomes'

AFAIK if you ever got a caution and ended up in court later on down the line it would be mentioned to the judge,in any event (i think) you cant get a caution then the probation act,correct me if i'm wrong

Jumboman

Anyone know if you have been arrested a few times but not convicted of anything would that go against your chances of joing the gardai ?

Santa Cruz

jamesr123 wrote: »

I was wondering what type of convictions would affect employment in a public sector job like say the Gardai. Say I was caught for no nct, brought to court and fined would that be considered a conviction? and would it be enough to rule you out of joining the gardai completely?

and Is it true as long as you recieve a fine in court you have a conviction?

The traffic conviction in itself may not be a stumbling block. Where problems may arise is that they will seek a report from the Garda in charge of the case in which they will enquire in to the background of the case, your demeanour on the date etc.
Telling the Garda that he would be better off catching drug pushers than poor motorists breaking the speed limit wouldn't help.

dpp v mcgee

Jumboman wrote: »

Anyone know if you have been arrested a few times but not convicted of anything would that go against your chances of joing the gardai ?

You bet it would. The Gardaí carry out a thorough independent investigation into every candidates background and stuff that wouldn't show up on say a police cert or general background check will show up on their investigation.

This was the case with a guy I new who hit a rough patch after he left school. He had been arrested one night after fighting off scumbags who attacked him but never testified against them for fear of retaliation. He declared this in his Garda application but never declared the time he was kicked out from his home by his parents who called the guards on him. Since he never declared this part, he was refused admission.

The best thing you can do is declare everything you've done. By doing so, they might refuse entry on the first recruitment drive but may admit you on the second. But that could process of 10 years so don't get your hopes up if I were you.

jamesr123

dpp v mcgee wrote: »

You bet it would. The Gardaí carry out a thorough independent investigation into every candidates background and stuff that wouldn't show up on say a police cert or general background check will show up on their investigation.

This was the case with a guy I new who hit a rough patch after he left school. He had been arrested one night after fighting off scumbags who attacked him but never testified against them for fear of retaliation. He declared this in his Garda application but never declared the time he was kicked out from his home by his parents who called the guards on him. Since he never declared this part, he was refused admission.

The best thing you can do is declare everything you've done. By doing so, they might refuse entry on the first recruitment drive but may admit you on the second. But that could process of 10 years so don't get your hopes up if I were you.

In fairness, I'd imagine getting arrested 1 times for a very minor thing might not hold you back to much if you were honest and it happened a very long time ago. I'd say having been arrested a few times like 'jumboman' has then it's probably gonna be next to impossible to get in. Especially the way competition will be these days