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Boards.ie Seanad Referendum

  • 12-09-2013 10:33PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭


    Do you think Seanad Eireann should be abolished in the upcoming referendum? I decided not to give an option for reform because its not on the ballot paper.

    I personally am against abolition and would like to see it kept as it is a worthwhile institution. It gave reformers, such as Norris and Robinson an initial platform for real change in the past. Ideally would like to see a reformed house, with a much wider franchise.

    Should the Seanad be abolished? 422 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 422 votes


«13456716

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭Miss Mayhem


    I don't think it should be abolished. I just think they should replace the eijets that are on it that don't have a clue what they're doing with intelligent qualified people that do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Probably a lot of NUI graduates here!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    A world with less politicians has got to be a better one!

    The fact that they're increasing the number of Dublin City Councillors by 50 seems to have slipped peoples' attention unfortunately!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Only 3% of the population can vote in it. Its a joke house filled with elitism. The carry on during the abortion shows how ridiculous and pointless it is. Abolish it. I don't care if it costs money to get rid of it. Our politicians cant wipe their own backsides without receiving expenses, nevermind reform a political system filled with their friends and failed wannabe TDs. If a senator is any good at amending legislation like they claim, they can run in front of all the people for a Dail seat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭BRYAN Is Ainm Dom


    Abolish. Useless muppets, everyone of them, had plenty of time to reform and they didnt do it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I think there was far more important things to vote on than abolishing the Senad. Such as bringing Irish divorce law into the 21st century or allowing same sex marriage. Something that will benefit tens of thousands people lives greatly. But imagine its policatial sensitive atm. As politics in ireland is like most countries, which is about doing what will get you reelected and not what is right. I imagine the turnout of it will be ****.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Definitely should go, no need for the privileged to have their own ineffective house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Reform it, don't abolish it.

    We need a radical reform of the entire political system. As it is, we have 2 of the 3 parts of the Oireachtas who in effect, do nothing. We need to make them relevant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Days 298 wrote: »
    Only 3% of the population can vote in it. Its a joke house filled with elitism. The carry on during the abortion shows how ridiculous and pointless it is. Abolish it. I don't care if it costs money to get rid of it. Our politicians cant wipe their own backsides without receiving expenses, nevermind a political system filled with their friends and failed wannabe TDs. If a senator is any good at amending legislation like they claim, they can run in front of all the people for a Dail seat.

    You make a good argument for reform, rather than abolition. I thing running to get rid of it is a mistake. If we had meaningful Seanad reform of the kind that was recommended in countless ignored reports then perhaps it would be more useful. If meaningful reform failed to make it more relevant, then there would be a strong argument for abolition.

    The Seanad needs to be changed not abolished.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    I wouldn't like to see it abolished, it has a reasonable amount of potential.

    However, there is an unfortunate tendency for the Yes side to over-egg the pudding, which weakens the validity of their points during a debate.

    I am going to vote No, but not because I think the Seanad is a fantastic, saviour institution. It's because I think non-elected dissenting voices aid the legislative process, and there is at least a chance that better progress might be made in that direction.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    I say get rid of it. We don't need it. Reform the Dail and strengthen local government instead.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Definitely should go, no need for the privileged to have their own ineffective house.

    No point in throwing the baby out with the kitchen sink.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    A world with less politicians has got to be a better one!

    The fact that they're increasing the number of Dublin City Councillors by 50 seems to have slipped peoples' attention unfortunately!

    Not true, there are 52 people on Dublin City Council and it is going up to 63 for the next election.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    keith16 wrote: »
    No point in throwing the baby out with the kitchen sink.
    Its the most undemocratic part of our political system... no need for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    In 1979 a referendum was passed by the people to give other third level graduates a vote in Seanad Elections. Successive governments failed to implement this. I don't see how it can be legal to vote to abolish it now, having disregarded that referendum for 34 years!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I wouldn't like to see it abolished, it has a reasonable amount of potential.

    However, there is an unfortunate tendency for the Yes side to over-egg the pudding, which weakens the validity of their points during a debate.

    I am going to vote Yes, but not because I think the Seanad is a fantastic, saviour institution. It's because I think non-elected dissenting voices aid the legislative process, and there is at least a chance that better progress might be made in that direction.

    Voting yes is voting to abolish it though?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    I will be voting no, it has always been there since the foundation of the state and its part of tradition plus it doesn't cost that much money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Its the most undemocratic part of our political system... no need for it.

    I know, babies can't even vote!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    hfallada wrote: »
    I think there was far more important things to vote on than abolishing the Senad. Such as bringing Irish divorce law into the 21st century or allowing same sex marriage. Something that will benefit tens of thousands people lives greatly. But imagine its policatial sensitive atm. As politics in ireland is like most countries, which is about doing what will get you reelected and not what is right. I imagine the turnout of it will be ****.

    That's pretty much how I'm looking at it right now too. Just seems like too much of a power play at this point in time.

    I don't understand why strong reforms are not being presented as an option before abolition. Numbers in both houses should be reduced, imo, and appointment to the Seanad should be either through a rotating / lottery system or direct public vote.

    I don't particularly need an undersheet on my bed, but it's a good idea to have one nonetheless.. if it gets too hot I'll have an option besides laying there and taking it, and exposing myself to the elements =p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Voting yes is voting to abolish it though?
    woops. i can see I'm going to need to rehearse this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Out of the 60 current senators, at least 34 have previously failed in a bid to get elected to the Dail.

    So over half of the Seanad is made up of folk that the public deemed not up to the mark to be TDs

    Think about the quality of the those who managed to get elected to the Dail ;

    Now think about those who were held in less esteem by the public ;

    and now think about these folk who were rejected by the public picking up a basic salary of €65,621 plus allowances (for sitting on various committees) plus extremely generous expenses plus pension plus perks like a parking space in city centre Dublin.

    Then balance that against what we lose if we get rid of the Seanad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    Out of the 60 current senators, at least 34 have previously failed in a bid to get elected to the Dail.

    So over half of the Seanad is made up of folk that the public deemed not up to the mark to be TDs

    Think about the quality of the those who managed to get elected to the Dail ;

    Now think about those who were held in less esteem by the public ;


    and now think about these folk who were rejected by the public picking up a basic salary of €65,621 plus allowances (for sitting on various committees) plus extremely generous expenses plus pension plus perks like a parking space in city centre Dublin.

    Then balance that against what we lose if we get rid of the Seanad.


    Some of those who failed to get elected as TDs failed because they were not part of the party system. We will never have a taoiseach who is anything but Fianna Fail or Fine Gael and this referendum smells like a naked grab for power by Enda Kenny. The Seanad didnt get us into the mess we are in at the moment it was our duly elected TDs who did that to us and then promised they would burn the bondholders and instead stuck more debt on us.

    Lets have a reform of our whole political system with term limits and no Nepotism allowed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Some of those who failed to get elected as TDs failed because they were not part of the party system. We will never have a taoiseach who is anything but Fianna Fail or Fine Gael and this referendum smells like a naked grab for power by Enda Kenny. The Seanad didnt get us into the mess we are in at the moment it was our duly elected TDs who did that to us and then promised they would burn the bondholders and instead stuck more debt on us.

    Lets have a reform of our whole political system with term limits and no Nepotism allowed

    How can you grab power from an ultimately powerless entity?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Lets have a reform of our whole political system with term limits and no Nepotism allowed

    I actually think family members following into politics has an unfair bad rep. I have a friend who wants to do just that. He knows his Dad was never around, he knows that people call to the house day and night, that your time is never your own. But he still wants to go into politics to help people and to make a difference. To me that's better than someone with a huge ego and ambition who has no idea what political life entails and how it impacts others in your life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,033 ✭✭✭uch


    athtrasna wrote: »
    In 1979 a referendum was passed by the people to give other third level graduates a vote in Seanad Elections. Successive governments failed to implement this. I don't see how it can be legal to vote to abolish it now, having disregarded that referendum for 34 years!

    Not true

    21/25



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Mickey H


    Abolish it I think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss



    Its not really.
    The initial poster gave a very loose interpretation of what the referendum entailed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Some of those who failed to get elected as TDs failed because they were not part of the party system.

    Nope. Every one of the 34 is a member of a political party.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    We will never have a taoiseach who is anything but Fianna Fail or Fine Gael and this referendum smells like a naked grab for power by Enda Kenny. The Seanad didnt get us into the mess we are in at the moment it was our duly elected TDs who did that to us and then promised they would burn the bondholders and instead stuck more debt on us.

    Lets have a reform of our whole political system with term limits and no Nepotism allowed

    Voting No will do nothing to achieve the reforms you are looking for - term limits and no nepotism.

    Reform of the Seanad isn't going to happen if there is a NO vote because in order to have any sort of meaningful reform there would need to be another referendum and there is no way that is going to happen in the next 10 years if this referendum is defeated. Personally I would be surprised if anything actually happened in the next 20 years at best.

    If the referendum is defeated we simply remain with the status quo, there will be no serious reform. (There might be some minor tiny adjustments but without a further referendum those will be window-dressing, so that the issue can be put to bed) The vote is one between getting rid of the Seanad or keeping it as is. Reform isn't an option.

    You're right in that the Seanad didnt get us into this mess but it also did nothing to stop it. It is a powerless body so I really don't see how getting rid of it is a power grab. Basically we shut down a talking shop for failed TDs who don't really contribute anything very significant in terms of running the country and save some money.

    It won't achieve anything massive but it would send a message to Irish politicians that the public doesn't want them spending/wasting money on politicians who add little or nothing to the running of the country.

    Consider the situation if the referendum is defeated; the message that Irish politicians will take is that the public is fine with a system where failed TDs who are well connected/in favour with the various political parties will have the backup of the joining in the Seanad if/when they fail to get enough votes to get elected to the Dail on a generous salary.

    Overall getting rid of the Seanad would be a more positive step than keeping it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,033 ✭✭✭uch





    No It's not, I'm talking about the successive Governments failure to Implement it. I worked on Norris' behalf in the Seanad elections in the 00's

    21/25



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