Ryanair to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet

andersat2

WOW!

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-clips-wings-of-online-critics-1.1524279



Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair chief executive Michael O’Leary: Ryanair had sued over articles based on a television documentary programme that claimed to reveal safety and fuel issues at the airline. Photograph: Bertil Enevag Ericson/Scanpix/Reuters
Libel settlement ‘vindicates’ Ryanair safety, says O’Leary
The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content or availability of other websites.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline’s reputation and business.
The posting read: “I don’t care if it’s wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn’t be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!”
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.

‘Always flying’
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the ‘always flying’ tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair’s excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.

Jhcx

Wow! their really going to town on this. It's right though the people need to be named and shamed if your going to say false information about any company. It's grand if there's proof but some just want to watch the world burn.

Still say bit of a shocker in privacy concern though. But I guess you lose that right when you make false accusations on the company. Imo

Locker10a

I find this shocking and worrying, its actually like something Hitler or Stalin would have done and did do!! I mean defamation is one thing but silencing people and making others afraid to speak up is too far in my opinion

tayto lover

A real "shoot the whistle-blower" tactic. Just O'Leary's style. Bully-boy.

Storm 10

Well the Daily Mail paid up today in the court after calling Ryanair unsafe, they are right to go after these faceless people who spread these rumours and could impact on Ryanair

FloatingVoter

Can't resist.

Should I now be penalised for calling O'Leary a twat and his airline a piece of junk. See you in court, Mike.
Whoops, thats right...its Ireland...I too can have a free opinion. Happy days.

andy_g

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Can't resist.

Should I now be penalised for calling O'Leary a twat and his airline a piece of junk. See you in court, Mike.
Whoops, thats right...its Ireland...I too can have a free opinion. Happy days.

Not really true as boards.ie Ltd Community Manager last year had to delete a thread from this forum due to legal action taken by Ryanair.

Watch what you say on the forum's and remember if you cannot stand by your posts will not be removed even when requested.

Lustrum

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Can't resist.

Should I now be penalised for calling O'Leary a twat and his airline a piece of junk. See you in court, Mike.
Whoops, thats right...its Ireland...I too can have a free opinion. Happy days.

In fairness there's a difference between an opinion and making claims that an airline is routinely breaking the law by eating into final reserve fuel.

They may be rubbish to fly with, but I would have absolutely no questions about the abilities or professionalism of the flight crew.

Also, alternate and final reserve is exactly for when there are issues with weather/delays etc that are unforseen. If the guy in the article would rather try land in a thunderstorm than "eat into" his alternate by diverting, I'd take a Ryanair pilot any day

Suasdaguna1

If someone says lies about you that are gross untruths, well one is entitled to defend oneself. Deep pockets make the task easier re legals fees.

Eponymous

Locker10a wrote: »

I find this shocking and worrying, its actually like something Hitler or Stalin would have done and did do!! I mean defamation is one thing but silencing people and making others afraid to speak up is too far in my opinion

Yeah, because using legal avenues to prevent/remove "anonymous" posts spreading lies is exactly like what a dictator would do.

Dogwatch

Eponymous wrote: »

Yeah, because using legal avenues to prevent/remove "anonymous" posts spreading lies is exactly like what a dictator would do.

A dictator would not bother with the legal system..........

Fabio

Eponymous wrote: »

Yeah, because using legal avenues to prevent/remove "anonymous" posts spreading lies is exactly like what a dictator would do.

Yeah they did use the legal system. They made sure to make up a legal system to facilitate that of course.

Anyway what O'Leary is doing is over the top, a waste of resources, and is essentially, bad publicity too. It makes it look like their might b something to hide. Perceptions matter.

Eponymous

No. It makes it look like they're attempting to set the record straight.

I get the hate, if you don't like them, fine. But any business (or individual for that matter) who is happy to let internet users hide behind pseudonyms and post unfounded allegations or plain old lies, will not be in business for long. Everyone and every firm has a right to its good name.

They may skimp on customer service, but they would never dare skimp on safety.

Didn't Stelios once say "if you think safety is expensive, wait til you have an accident"?

BuffyBot

Fabio wrote: »

Yeah they did use the legal system. They made sure to make up a legal system to facilitate that of course.

Anyway what O'Leary is doing is over the top, a waste of resources, and is essentially, bad publicity too. It makes it look like their might b something to hide. Perceptions matter.

As powerful as his may be in your eyes, O'Leary can't "make up" a legal system. Ryanair is far from alone in taking such cases, I can assure you. There are many folks who think "shure it's just the Internet" and think they can say what they like. It's not the case. In the modern world, damage done to a reputation online can be just as dangerous as on TV or in print.

ISP's and websites have very little interest in fighting court orders of this kind. Having seen some of the things folks think they can get away with on boards.ie, and on other communities I've run, I can tell you that in the most part the companies and organisations are taking these actions legitimately in a large majority of the cases.

pclancy

For far too long people have thought that what they post on forums such as ours and PPRUNE was anonymous and that being behind a keyboard gave them the right to flame people and companies. Complaining and moaning about stuff is one thing, but abusing people or flaming an airline's safety record is another. Why shouldnt they take people to court for posting lies? If I had the money I would do it if anyone flamed my own business.

Also this perception that an Internet forum must adhere to principles of free speech is also a bit silly, someone or something owns every bit of virtual real estate on the Internet so its up to them how much free speech they are prepared to allow before they risk letting themselves be taken to court.

LXFlyer

It boils down to the maxim - don't post it unless you are prepared to put your name to it in public.

Otherwise, you risk incurring legal difficulties for yourself and the board's host.

People often tend to forget that what they write on the internet can be read by everyone, and not just specific people as in a bar stool chat.

bumper234

Try bad mouthing Google, facebook or microsoft online by making accusations against them that are false and see how long it takes to end up in court. Ryanair are no different and have every right to prosecute people who lie to damage their business.

zenno

bumper234 wrote: »

Try bad mouthing Google, facebook or microsoft online by making accusations against them that are false and see how long it takes to end up in court. Ryanair are no different and have every right to prosecute people who lie to damage their business.

Prove that they are lies ?.

Are ryanairs pilots telling lies ?

I don't think so, in my opinion.

bumper234

zenno wrote: »

Prove that they are lies ?.

Are ryanairs pilots telling lies ?

I don't think so, in my opinion.

Are the people on the forum pilots or just angry ex employees? If they are telling the truth about Ryanair safety then they have nothing to worry about right? So why post on a forum why not report to the safety regulation division?

zenno

bumper234 wrote: »

Are the people on the forum pilots or just angry ex employees? If they are telling the truth about Ryanair safety then they have nothing to worry about right? So why post on a forum why not report to the safety regulation division?

Some of them are pilots of ryanair, and still are, but were anonymous in relation to documentaries they were involved in.

Some have reported to the safety regulation division.

funt cucker

zenno wrote: »

Some of them are pilots of ryanair, and still are, but were anonymous in relation to documentaries they were involved in.

Some have reported to the safety regulation division.

And I would agree, that there probably is the unwritten rule that if you're at the bottom of that fuel league, you better watch your back, the P45 could be on it's way.

bumper234

zenno wrote: »

Some of them are pilots of ryanair, and still are, but were anonymous in relation to documentaries they were involved in.

Some have reported to the safety regulation division.

And the SRD have found Ryanair innocent of all claims right? So do you not think they now have the right to go after the people who have tried to damage their business or do you think it should be ok for people to make whatever claims they like online with no risk?

funt cucker

bumper234 wrote: »

And the SRD have found Ryanair innocent of all claims right? So do you not think they now have the right to go after the people who have tried to damage their business or do you think it should be ok for people to make whatever claims they like online with no risk?

Innocent, just barely i'd say, personal opinion. They are probably just above legal limit on everything, so technically yes they're innocent. So yes they can go after people who slander them.

But too many pilots current and former, chief pilot himself and they many anonymous pilots airing their views on the net tells me personally there is something wrong in that airline. You don't see it about any other ones.

bumper234

funt cucker wrote: »

Innocent, just barely i'd say, personal opinion. They are probably just above legal limit on everything, so technically yes they're innocent. So yes they can go after people who slander them.

But too many pilots current and former, chief pilot himself and they many anonymous pilots airing their views on the net tells me personally there is something wrong in that airline. You don't see it about any other ones.

So no smoke without fire right? What if i created 10 different accounts here on boards and started accusing you of being a child molester would that be ok? Would you not want boards to remove these scurrilous accusations and maybe even gee the authorities involved to clear your name?

funt cucker

bumper234 wrote: »

So no smoke without fire right? What if i created 10 different accounts here on boards and started accusing you of being a child molester would that be ok? Would you not want boards to remove these scurrilous accusations and maybe even gee the authorities involved to clear your name?

Ahh C'mon now, the chief pilot himself said it on television, there is definitely something wrong there.

Growler!!!

Is the Chief Pilot not a Postholder? Is he not in a position of Authority in the airline?

If "something" was up, would he not be in a position to change procedures

funt cucker

Growler!!! wrote: »

Is the Chief Pilot not a Postholder? Is he not in a position of Authority in the airline?

If "something" was up, would he not be in a position to change procedures

Not if O'Leary tells him to feck off, probably why he did it.

bumper234

funt cucker wrote: »

Ahh C'mon now, the chief pilot himself said it on television, there is definitely something wrong there.

Maybe you should read up on the history of him and Ryanair before taking everything he says as gospel. I personally know most of the people working in the SRD in Ireland (including my brother) and i know for a fact if there was the slightest chance any laws or regulations were broken they would shut Ryanair down.

IngazZagni

funt cucker wrote: »

Ahh C'mon now, the chief pilot himself said it on television, there is definitely something wrong there.

John Goss wasn't the chief pilot. He was one of the longest serving pilots in Ryanair and a former flight safety officer but was not part of management.

His gripe was mainly aimed towards the IAA and his perceived perception that they are not adequately regulating safety and other issues.

It's no secret that there are former Ryanair employees that now work with the IAA. It also shouldn't come as a surprise that people question the regulators in Ireland. After all the regulators in the financial sector told us the banks were fine in the months leading up to their collapse.

Del2005

funt cucker wrote: »

Innocent, just barely i'd say, personal opinion. They are probably just above legal limit on everything, so technically yes they're innocent. So yes they can go after people who slander them.

If the legal limits are as dangerous as you're making out then it'd be easy for the regulators to increase them. All companies are out to make as much money as possible for their shareholders, that's why we have government regulators to control them.

funt cucker wrote: »

But too many pilots current and former, chief pilot himself and they many anonymous pilots airing their views on the net tells me personally there is something wrong in that airline. You don't see it about any other ones.

Could it not just be that like most things on the internet it's usually the complainers who post most?

funt cucker

Del2005 wrote: »

If the legal limits are as dangerous as you're making out then it'd be easy for the regulators to increase them. All companies are out to make as much money as possible for their shareholders, that's why we have government regulators to control them.




Could it not just be that like most things on the internet it's usually the complainers who post most?

Nahh, I doubt it