Focus won't start

rugbyman

I have a focus,1.4 petrol. it lies up for most of each year ut always staarts first turn. last time I started it ,smoke camefrom under the bonnet. the aternator had seixed and burned the belt.
i have a secondhand alternator , not yet fitted.
the car will not start. turns over merrily but not afire .

has just occured to me that the seized alternator could be shorting something and stopping my sparks/. i have not checked the sparks, i googled this problem and got no conclusive answers, other than to let me know there is a fuelpump.

i realise this seems like a wally question, not having checked the sparks,but the car is 50 miles away, ....just asking..... can the siezed alternator shortout my sparks??

thanks in advance

Hal1

I'd say it should still turn over even if so. Have you tried to jump start it?

rugbyman

Thanks Hal, yes it turns over good oh.i am wondering if somehow the alternator has shorted internally causing problems elsewhere. Google suggests that there is a fuel pump. But its unlikely to have died while sitting there.

Renegade Mechanic

rugbyman wrote: »

Thanks Hal, yes it turns over good oh.i am wondering if somehow the alternator has shorted internally causing problems elsewhere. Google suggests that there is a fuel pump. But its unlikely to have died while sitting there.

The Alternator managed it!:D The same thing happened to a Punto alternator of mine but still ran fine with the belt off. I would turn on the ignition when you get home and listen for a high pitched whirring around the back seat area. It should last a second or so. If you have that noise, the pump is fine. Another very common starting/running(poorly) fault with those is a three piece "T" shaped pipe set inside the inlet manifold structure (though not actually within the manifold itself). These split, greatly hindering the generation of a vacuum, making starting quite difficult in some cases.

rugbyman

Renegade, thank you, but my belt is non existant now, but the electrical connections to the car are still connected,.I am going to the car later but do not have much time/tools/brains.
Will try listen for pump but if it exists I imagine I wont hear it.

rugbyman

had a wee look at this tonight. I knew there was some reason why I had not checked for sparks, the plugs are covered by a sheet, needing quite a few screws removed to have a look.
switching on the ignition several times did cause a wee noise at the rear,very much a wee click though.

i opened the fuse box and found there is a sort of a relay pertaining to a pic of a fuel pump, could not remove it though.

Hal1

When you turn on the ignition it primes the fuel pump. So once you know it's working there's no point removing the relay for it. Anyway it's a pig of a job to change the fuel pump in the mk1 focus as the tank has to be dropped. I would still try jump starting it to see and hear it.

rugbyman

Thanks again Hal,
I have read many cases on google where the fuel pump fuse , no. 12, blows easily. The battery is low and though it lights the dash lights it will not turn engine. The slight noise from the rear was barely audible , but was there.
Some weeks ago I attempted to start it with a fully charged battery. It churned away for ages but did not attempt to start. It seems fairly straight to me
A NO SPARK , POSSIBLY DUE TO SHORT IN ALTERNATOR
B NO PETROL DUE TO FUEL PUMP

to check sparks means removing a plate, though I thought of pulling out a distributor lead and putting a screwdriver in and turning engine. Usually my ideas end up in some wee bit getting broken.

To check fuel I need to recharge battery and listen out for pump.

Google reports dozens of such problems. Inc changing the pump, complicated job, as you say

Hal1

I wouldn't put a screwdriver in the spark plug terminal. It would be a bit shocking even lethal if unsure of voltages involved. The fuel pump relay is r9 on mine anyway (2003 1.6). Some mator factors might have the fuse or relay needed and would be cheaper than buying off ford.

rugbyman

Spent an hour at it today, sparks ok , though I need not have opened the eight nuts to get the cover off, it fired up on easy start.fuse seems ok , changed the relays about, no joy. Tipped the back seat found the wires, no clicking sound.
I find it hard to believe that the pump died while lying up. Am wondering if it can be invigorated by a tap of a spanner.i have followed an excellent story , with pics, of the chang7ng of a pump, on Google. Serious job.

88manta

If someone near you had professional diagnostic equipment, it might save you a lot of headaches and isolate and identify your problem easier.

You'd want to have your alternator and new belt changed first.

rugbyman

Thank you Manta, my nephew always says to clients, take to a dealer or good indy to get a diagnosis. His ford friends say the immobiliser may havebeen triggered, they want chassis no to check that possibility. The car is abroad and getting to a garage is difficult. Anyway I was happy with my amateur diagnosis yesterday.

rugbyman

I have read that re opening old threads is a hanging offence, but here goes

this car has not been sorted and nneds sorting soon,

if i may i will set out what i know, Manta 88 suggested diagnosis, but with towing costs, language, its on the continent, and etc ,i would like to sort it where it is.

re reading the thread

its not an ignition problem, plugs are sparking and the engine runs on easy start.

A. the alternator seized up, perhaps causing short circuits inside it, perhaps sending an alarm signal to the e.c.u. to cut off fuel

B the fuel pump just died, i have checked to the best of my ability that the fuse and relevant relay are ok( by swithcing).

I brought a n alternator from Ireland ,though regetably i did not get it checked, however my nephew has suggested this, plug the loom into the replacement alternator,fit good battery and try engine. the idea of this is to eliminate any possible bad influence from the seized alternator.
so i asked him if the bad alternator had sent a signal to the ecu to turn off the petrol, would i need a main dealer to cancel that order.?

we dont know.

My own idea , having lifted the back seat and looked through a golf ball sized hole that there are ,I think three wires leading to the pump. If i could identify which are which( in my mind i think.power to pump,earth, and fuel level sender ) .if i identify the power to fuel pump wire and give it power, then the pump should work( if it will)

before i do damage , can i give this wire 12 volts
any help greatly appreciated

Rugbyman

rugbyman

the reason why my suspicions point to fuel pump, rather than ecu is that the last time I started it it took a long time to fire,( normally first turn)
my background is in diesel cars and trucks and such a situation usually meant diesel had run back to the tank, needing churning over.

BohsCeltic

Make sure the fuel cut off switch is not activated.

If it's been lying up that long i'd say you will start finding more problems with the car

rugbyman

thank you Bohs, that one came up with google. it would be a great solution

martinr5232

What year focus is it if its mk1 or 2 its most likely a fuel pump.
You should hear a little whirring noise when the ignition is switched on for a couple of seconds.
If not give the top of the pump a few taps with a screw driver if that doesnt work check for 12v at the pump wire while cranking.

rugbyman

thank you Martin, i have had advise that my alternator theory is bunk.

your suggestion is what i propose to do,
i am not at all sure if the pump can be reached to tap. certainly the changing of the pump is exhaust off and tank dropped.

the car is 98/99/00

when you mention check for power " while cranking". is this because when turning on the ignition(if all was well) the pump only activates for a second or two as the line is full of petrol with nowhere to go?

martinr5232

The pump runs for a couple of seconds to prime the lines with fuel once it has pressure in the lines it wont keep priming.

Try pulling the fuel feed off the fuel rail see does anything come out while cranking.

If not you will still need to check for power and ground at the pump to make sure its not wiring or relay.

Are you sure there is fuel in it aswell those gauges can be a bit suspect at times aswell but as i said i would be almost positive its a pump problem as they do give trouble.