DSL Prequal speeds wrong - Can I get profile checked when active?

SpaceTime

We ordered DSL for an address in Co. Leitrim and when I called eircom (and also Vodafone) the prequal speeds quoted were ridiculously bad (less than 2Mbit/s)

Other neighbours seem to get quite good speeds, so I decided to do a little bit of investigating.
I plugged in a phone, picked up and dialled 199000 to get the number associated with the line. There were loud crackles and hisses across the line.

I did a little checking around the house to see if I could isolate the internal wiring and discovered that the master socket was cracked. Someone had moved a piece of furniture tight to the wall and smashed the face plate of the socket (it had a large double-adaptor plugged into it).

I removed the faceplate, isolated the line from the extension wiring and plugged the phone into the test socket and there was a perfect, crackle-free dial tone and the audio sounded completely normal.

I then plugged our old ADSL2+ modem in and it synced to the exchange. (there's no account obviously, but the DSLAM was clearly responding).

The line stats are exceptionally good now!

ADSL Link		Downstream	Upstream
Connection Speed	1024 kbps	256 kbps
Line Attenuation	8 db		3.5 db
Noise Margin		31 db		23 db

From what I can gather, the person who lived here previously was just using the DSL connection over that horrendous internal wiring and it seems to have affected the prequal tests for the line.

The eircom saleswoman we were speaking to seemed to think the line would only support 3mbit/s absolute max and might be unstable. That does not now seem to be the case.

What I am concerned about is that the line will be profiled to a very slow speed.
Can we get that checked out and ensure that the service is set to the max speed the line will take?

From the above stats, it actually looks like an exceptionally good line.

8db would indicate a line of about 600 meters long and noise margin of 31dB is considered 'outstanding' so I should be able to get the full 8mbit/s or close enough to 20 to 21mbit/s if ADSL2+ is available here.

Can you please look into this?

I can PM the assigned phone number.

SpaceTime

Hi guys, any chance of an update on this ?
I'm PMing you the phone number.

eircom: Alan

SpaceTime wrote: »

We ordered DSL for an address in Co. Leitrim and when I called eircom (and also Vodafone) the prequal speeds quoted were ridiculously bad (less than 2Mbit/s)

Other neighbours seem to get quite good speeds, so I decided to do a little bit of investigating.
I plugged in a phone, picked up and dialled 199000 to get the number associated with the line. There were loud crackles and hisses across the line.

I did a little checking around the house to see if I could isolate the internal wiring and discovered that the master socket was cracked. Someone had moved a piece of furniture tight to the wall and smashed the face plate of the socket (it had a large double-adaptor plugged into it).

I removed the faceplate, isolated the line from the extension wiring and plugged the phone into the test socket and there was a perfect, crackle-free dial tone and the audio sounded completely normal.

I then plugged our old ADSL2+ modem in and it synced to the exchange. (there's no account obviously, but the DSLAM was clearly responding).

The line stats are exceptionally good now!

ADSL Link		Downstream	Upstream
Connection Speed	1024 kbps	256 kbps
Line Attenuation	8 db		3.5 db
Noise Margin		31 db		23 db

From what I can gather, the person who lived here previously was just using the DSL connection over that horrendous internal wiring and it seems to have affected the prequal tests for the line.

The eircom saleswoman we were speaking to seemed to think the line would only support 3mbit/s absolute max and might be unstable. That does not now seem to be the case.

What I am concerned about is that the line will be profiled to a very slow speed.
Can we get that checked out and ensure that the service is set to the max speed the line will take?

From the above stats, it actually looks like an exceptionally good line.

8db would indicate a line of about 600 meters long and noise margin of 31dB is considered 'outstanding' so I should be able to get the full 8mbit/s or close enough to 20 to 21mbit/s if ADSL2+ is available here.

Can you please look into this?

I can PM the assigned phone number.

Hi Spacetime

I have just replied to your PM now.

Hope this helps

Al

SpaceTime

Hi sent you a reply too
Thanks

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

Hi sent you a reply too
Thanks

Hi SpaceTime,

Not sure if you have seen my PM

I checked your exchange and a number of neighbouring address' with eircom broadband.

- Next Generation is not available at the exchange as yet and there is no indication as to when it may be I'm afraid.

- The DROMAHAIR exchange has a max capability of 8MB - No indication as to when ADSL2+ may be available so the max speed / package is the 7MB Home Advanced.

* "up to"

Upload

Synced at: 384kbps
Provisioned: 128-384kbps


Download:

Synced at: 7168kbps
Provisioned: 512-7168kbps


- Our sales team on 1800 503 303 (option 2) they can go through the packages available.


Mark

SpaceTime

Hi Mark,

There's an order gone through although no order reference number or account number arrived to my email.

Dial tone's there and a DSL signal, but no service as yet. I would assume it's just an electronic activation so hopefully we should see it up and running before long.

Surprising there's no NGB as it's listed as a NGN Node Reach location on http://nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

Perhaps it might get fully hooked up to the NGN at some stage soon.

BTW : We have our own modem and there were several eircom DSL modems in the house already. Can we possibly just not get a modem sent out ? It's a bit of a waste of resources.

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

Hi Mark,

There's an order gone through although no order reference number or account number arrived to my email.

Dial tone's there and a DSL signal, but no service as yet. I would assume it's just an electronic activation so hopefully we should see it up and running before long.

Surprising there's no NGB as it's listed as a NGN Node Reach location on http://nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

Perhaps it might get fully hooked up to the NGN at some stage soon.

BTW : We have our own modem and there were several eircom DSL modems in the house already. Can we possibly just not get a modem sent out ? It's a bit of a waste of resources.

Hi,

Can you confirm the full name the order was placed under and I can PM the order address. I can arrange to send the account number through the post as well.

Mark

SpaceTime

eircom: Mark wrote: »

SpaceTime wrote: »

Hi Mark,

There's an order gone through although no order reference number or account number arrived to my email.

Dial tone's there and a DSL signal, but no service as yet. I would assume it's just an electronic activation so hopefully we should see it up and running before long.

Surprising there's no NGB as it's listed as a NGN Node Reach location on http://nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

Perhaps it might get fully hooked up to the NGN at some stage soon.

BTW : We have our own modem and there were several eircom DSL modems in the house already. Can we possibly just not get a modem sent out ? It's a bit of a waste of resources.

Hi,

Can you confirm the full name the order was placed under and I can PM the order address. I can arrange to send the account number through the post as well.

Mark

Hi sent you a PM there with the text from the email I got from eircom.

Also PMing the line number.

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

eircom: Mark wrote: »

SpaceTime wrote: »

Hi Mark,

There's an order gone through although no order reference number or account number arrived to my email.

Dial tone's there and a DSL signal, but no service as yet. I would assume it's just an electronic activation so hopefully we should see it up and running before long.

Surprising there's no NGB as it's listed as a NGN Node Reach location on http://nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

Perhaps it might get fully hooked up to the NGN at some stage soon.

BTW : We have our own modem and there were several eircom DSL modems in the house already. Can we possibly just not get a modem sent out ? It's a bit of a waste of resources.

Hi,

Can you confirm the full name the order was placed under and I can PM the order address. I can arrange to send the account number through the post as well.

Mark

Hi sent you a PM there with the text from the email I got from eircom.

Also PMing the line number.

Got it thanks,

I sent on the details and issued the account number to the address.

Mark

SpaceTime

Hi Mark,

That DSL service is now active, but the speed seems really low for the line quality.

ADSL Link		Downstream	Upstream
Connection Speed	3072 kbps	384 kbps
Line Attenuation	  8 db	3.5 db
Noise Margin	  22 db	17 db

Given the attenuation and noise margin, it should be able to handle much closer to full speed on that wiring from the exchange. It's literally about 600m from the exchange itself which is just at the end of the street.

Could you check if it's on some strange profile as the internal wiring was REALLY bad before I tidied it up. I mean you could barely hear the dial tone over the crackles!

Can you please get someone to look at the setup on the network side to see if the DSLAM port is on some weird profile?

Or is this some kind of a cap due to lack of backhaul capacity?



That really is pretty abysmal for 600 meters from the exchange!

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

Hi Mark,

That DSL service is now active, but the speed seems really low for the line quality.

ADSL Link		Downstream	Upstream
Connection Speed	3072 kbps	384 kbps
Line Attenuation	  8 db	3.5 db
Noise Margin	  22 db	17 db

Given the attenuation and noise margin, it should be able to handle much closer to full speed on that wiring from the exchange. It's literally about 600m from the exchange itself which is just at the end of the street.

Could you check if it's on some strange profile as the internal wiring was REALLY bad before I tidied it up. I mean you could barely hear the dial tone over the crackles!

Can you please get someone to look at the setup on the network side to see if the DSLAM port is on some weird profile?

Or is this some kind of a cap due to lack of backhaul capacity?



That really is pretty abysmal for 600 meters from the exchange!

Hi SpaceTime


As I advised the exchange is not Next Generation broadband enabled. So you were put on the corresponding "Up to 3mb" was applied.

So the download speeds are set at:
If you contact the broadband


If you contact broadband sales on 1800 503 303 (option 2) they can go through the 7MB package / bundle I advised you of.

Thanks, Mark

SpaceTime

I'm completely baffled by this on the phone to the sales line.

I had one guy tell me that there was no difference in the price at all if I 'upgraded' to up to 7Mbit/s

The next lady told me it'd be an extra €10 per month because I wasn't in an NGB area and that I'd only get 3 Mbit/s month for €50 and that up to 7mbit/s is €60 !?!

I wouldn't have signed up for eircom at all at this rate as that was not what I was told on the first call when I signed up and on your website it seems to show up to 24 Mbit/s for €50

Can you please send me a pricing table as I don't know what I'm being sold tbh.

I'm reluctant to agree to anything over the phone now as I have been given multiple prices for the same thing.

I feel like I've been completely mislead by your website and your sales lines now as I genuinely thought that I could get whatever the line would take for €50 i.e. up to 24mbit/s or whatever slower speed the line might have available here.

I didn't think I needed to know what type of backhaul your local exchange was on or that I'd be paying extra because I was in a rural area for a much inferior service to NGB.

I should have gone with Vodafone or Sky.

At the very least you should have a clear, easily findable table of all your broadband products on your website.

The whole site's now only giving information about e-Fibre and NGB (if you can even find that) it hardly mentions anything about non-NGB.

Can you please point me towards a non-NGB DSL pricing table?

hazchem

Try this 

https://secure.eircom.net/talktime/talktime-evolution-flow?execution=e1s3

SpaceTime

Thanks, but none of those are the packages I'm being told about.

I've been presented with an option of 1, 3 or 7 Mbit/s !

From what I gather, although I'm still totally unclear on this :

3Mbit/s is €50
and 7Mbit/s is €60 !!

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm completely baffled by this on the phone to the sales line.

I had one guy tell me that there was no difference in the price at all if I 'upgraded' to up to 7Mbit/s

The next lady told me it'd be an extra €10 per month because I wasn't in an NGB area and that I'd only get 3 Mbit/s month for €50 and that up to 7mbit/s is €60 !?!

I wouldn't have signed up for eircom at all at this rate as that was not what I was told on the first call when I signed up and on your website it seems to show up to 24 Mbit/s for €50

Can you please send me a pricing table as I don't know what I'm being sold tbh.

I'm reluctant to agree to anything over the phone now as I have been given multiple prices for the same thing.

I feel like I've been completely mislead by your website and your sales lines now as I genuinely thought that I could get whatever the line would take for €50 i.e. up to 24mbit/s or whatever slower speed the line might have available here.

I didn't think I needed to know what type of backhaul your local exchange was on or that I'd be paying extra because I was in a rural area for a much inferior service to NGB.

I should have gone with Vodafone or Sky.

At the very least you should have a clear, easily findable table of all your broadband products on your website.

The whole site's now only giving information about e-Fibre and NGB (if you can even find that) it hardly mentions anything about non-NGB.

Can you please point me towards a non-NGB DSL pricing table?

Hi SpaceTime

The "up to 7MB" home advanced is €55 for the first six months and then €60 thereafter as part of the bundle with free evening and weekend calls.

The "up to 3MB" home plus is €45 for the first six months then €50 thereafter
as part of the bundle with free evening and weekend calls.

There is no online information for the standard broadband bundles I'm afraid.

Mark

SpaceTime

Thanks for the reply and I am not annoyed with the online support, rather with the pricing structure and transparency of how things are being advertised.

As I see it, I'm being asked to pay considerably more for a much slower product in the same product family just because I'm on a non-NGB exchange.

It's a bit like a surcharge for living in a rural area and still getting a much inferior product.

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and I am not annoyed with the online support, rather with the pricing structure and transparency of how things are being advertised.

As I see it, I'm being asked to pay considerably more for a much slower product in the same product family just because I'm on a non-NGB exchange.

It's a bit like a surcharge for living in a rural area and still getting a much inferior product.

Hi,

We have answered this query a few times I appreciate it may seem unfair to customers who are on the standard broadband packages and can not avail of the Next Generation Broadband as their exchanges may not have been enabled as yet.

However the the NGB is classed as a different broadband product / service. eircom are trying to enable as many exchanges nation-wide for NGB, as it is the best way to improve the broadband service at a national level.

However in some cases it may not be possible to provide NGB to an exchange, so that is why the standard bitstream broadband service is still provided in an effort to give some measure of broadband service to an area.

The standard broadband packages (In terms of price and speed parameters) were set when the product was rolled out through all proper channels.

NGB had to be offered as a different product, as such the price and speed parameters did not have to match the existing standard packages, in turn it was regulations meant that we could not lower the standard broadband packages to match the NGB (as it is a separate product).


The same would apply to efibre packages / bundles compared to NGB.

Mark

SpaceTime

Hi Mark,

I appreciate your position as a customer services rep. and you're doing all you can however, can you please feed this back to the marketing department.

1) Eircom should be much more up-front about the fact that there are two ADSL networks running side-by-side with completely different speeds and pricing. The website and all marketing material that I've seen only makes reference to NGB (in fact most of it only makes reference to e-fibre). If you are still selling ADSL on the old core network in some areas, you should still have it listed on the website so that people can make a comparison with other providers.

2) Your sales staff need to make it more abundantly clear that this is a different product. I called sales today and asked about the up to 7mbit/s package and was told that it was a free upgrade and was then put through to technical support who had no idea why I was on to them. They then transferred me back to sales and I got a different price again. That's what really annoyed me as I had no idea what I was signing up to or what price it was.

Everything was being talked about by headline speed, and not by product name so as far as I was aware, the pricing for non-NGB was just the same as NGB without the higher speed availability and then I was rather stunned to discover, that no in fact it was significantly pricier.

Had I been given clear information about what I was subscribing to at all times, I would not have been annoyed with eircom today.

I don't remember any of the agents I spoke to saying "You are in a non-NGB area, the prices and packages are different" They just kept saying you wouldn't be able to get the same speed.

To most consumers the logical conclusion would also be that an inferior product is going to be at most the same price, and probably cheaper than the better product. So it's totally counter-intuitive that it should suddenly cost more to get a slower speed product.

I appreciate that one is a ADSL product over an old ATM-based backhaul network and the other is ADSL over an all-IP network so there are big differences in capacity, but for end users, all we really care about is what speed we're getting.

Being clear with customers would prevent a lot of friction and a lot of frustration for both the customers and I'm sure for the staff too.

SpaceTime

One more question:


I was told that this product was unlimited by the sales person.

Is that true? or am I subject to some kind of cap?

... just double checked this on the phone.

Seems it is

hazchem

Quote

"There is no online information for the standard broadband bundles I'm afraid.

Mark"

Forgive me Mark but I was on this page on your website earlier today is this a website error do these bundle options no longer apply?

SpaceTime

I looked all over the site in the last few days and couldn't find that. It's well buried!

eircom: Mark

SpaceTime wrote: »

One more question:


I was told that this product was unlimited by the sales person.

Is that true? or am I subject to some kind of cap?

... just double checked this on the phone.

Seems it is

Hi SpaceTime

I can assure you there are no excess broadband usage charges applied on the standard broadband packages.

Thanks, Mark

eircom: Mark

hazchem wrote: »

Quote

"There is no online information for the standard broadband bundles I'm afraid.

Mark"

Forgive me Mark but I was on this page on your website earlier today is this a website error do these bundle options no longer apply?

Hi hazchem

The NGB (next generation broadband) and efibre bundles are available online. The information / pricing is similar to the standard broadband bundles. However there is no information available online at present for the specific 1MB, 3MB & 7MB broadband packages & bundles.

Which is why we advise customers to call sales on (free phone 1800 503 303)

Mark

hazchem

eircom: Mark wrote: »

hazchem wrote: »

Quote

"There is no online information for the standard broadband bundles I'm afraid.

Mark"

Forgive me Mark but I was on this page on your website earlier today is this a website error do these bundle options no longer apply?

Hi hazchem

The NGB (next generation broadband) and efibre bundles are available online. The information / pricing is similar to the standard broadband bundles. However there is no information available online at present for the specific 1MB, 3MB & 7MB broadband packages & bundles.

Which is why we advise customers to call sales on (free phone 1800 503 303)

Mark

There was until this morning I see you now have removed the Create your own package page, well at least that will avoid confusion on prices!

SpaceTime

Or bury the slow packages away from sight

Maybe I'm a total cynic but I guess that one wouldn't want to be seen to be still offering 1Mbit/s ADSL in 2013.

hazchem

Surely Comreg will force them into advertising pricing for1MB, 3MB & 7MB broadband packages & bundles, given that 35pc of Eircom's customers are not within NGB areas.

Just found this document with package prices Effective from 03/06/13

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Pt4.1.8.pdf

Create your own package page back working again today

https://secure.eircom.net/talktime/talktime-evolution-flow?execution=e1s3