Shane Long - 'Trap took Ireland to the next level'

Rhys Essien

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

Paul Tergat

Its hardly surprising that Long is speaking positively about a manager who has made him first choice for his country

highgiant1985

Rhys Essien wrote: »

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

To be fair... look at what we were doing before Trap took over... Look at Traps first two campaigns...

Yes we've not been good enough this campaign but he got us to a world cup play off and qualified for the Euros. Before that we were losing to the likes of Cyrpus.

I'm happy hes gone as well but he deserves some respect for building Ireland up again after a horrible period.

Hes taken us as far as he can and over stayed yes but he did improve us from when he joined.

Wichita Lineman

He's right, in a way, but unfortunately it was the next level down as 4th seeds for next qualification campaign!

Rhys Essien

highgiant1985 wrote: »

To be fair... look at what we were doing before Trap took over... Look at Traps first two campaigns...

Yes we've not been good enough this campaign but he got us to a world cup play off and qualified for the Euros. Before that we were losing to the likes of Cyrpus.

I'm happy hes gone as well but he deserves some respect for building Ireland up again after a horrible period.

Hes taken us as far as he can and over stayed yes but he did improve us from when he joined.

Trap got us to 1 championship after beating the mighty Estonia in a play-off.Then in Euro 2012,we went on to become the worse team ever to appear in the Euro's.That is all.

highgiant1985

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Trap got us to 1 championship after beating the mighty Estonia in a play-off.Then in Euro 2012,we went on to become the worse team ever to appear in the Euro's.That is all.

and compare that to things just before Trap...

Skylinehead

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Trap got us to 1 championship after beating the mighty Estonia in a play-off.Then in Euro 2012,we went on to become the worse team ever to appear in the Euro's.That is all.

He was also a handball away from getting us to the World Cup, and you call that a level down from Steve Staunton of all people?

Ferris_Bueller

To be fair I think Trap did take us to the next level, just he waited until we fell back down a level before he left. The first two campaigns he took charge of were without question a level above Stauntons 2008 campaign, just since the euros we have fallen again, so Shane Long isn't wrong in saying he took us to the next level - he just didn't leave us there.

LuckyLloyd

Rhys Essien wrote: »

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

Why do the players need to be in touch with the people again?

DEVEREUX

Skylinehead wrote: »

He was also a handball away from getting us to the World Cup, and you call that a level down from Steve Staunton of all people?

A handball away from the scoreline remaining 1-1

eagle eye

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Trap got us to 1 championship after beating the mighty Estonia in a play-off.Then in Euro 2012,we went on to become the worse team ever to appear in the Euro's.That is all.

Ah yeah its just that simple, don't include the fact that the two finalists were in our group and probably three of the top five sides in Europe.

bullpost

Not as bad as it sounds - there's 24 teams to qualify for 2016.

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

He's right, in a way, but unfortunately it was the next level down as 4th seeds for next qualification campaign!

Skylinehead

DEVEREUX wrote: »

A handball away from the scoreline remaining 1-1

True, it wasn't set in stone. But we had every chance of progressing.

Mr.Nice Guy

He's not deluded, he's spot on.

Trap is only the third man in history to get us to a major tournament, and he pushed the team on from one of its lowest ever ebbs when we were behind NI under Stan.

I suppose it doesn't do for some who built Trap into some sort of evil, bogey man to hear players actually giving him the credit he deserves and for describing him in more reasonable, appropriate terms: as a good man who did his best for the country.

premierstone

Rhys Essien wrote: »

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

And this post shows that some of our fans have the memory of a goldfish :rolleyes:

mike65

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why do the players need to be in touch with the people again?

To understand those who help to pay their ****ing huge wages. Take the bus to the training ground, jumpers for goalposts etc.

Dots1982

I dont think he took us to the next level. I think we are still a lot of levels behind countries on continental Europe and Trap has done nothing to bridge that gap.

MD1990

i can't understand Dunphy & Giles saying Traps football isnt the Irish way
its is the Irish way we have always played direct football

weldoninhio

highgiant1985 wrote: »

and compare that to things just before Trap...

When we were secure in pot 3 for seeding and 35th in the world?? Compared to pot 4 now and closer to the 50s in the world?

The_Kew_Tour

MD1990 wrote: »

i can't understand Dunphy & Giles saying Traps football isnt the Irish way
its is the Irish way we have always played direct football

We have not really.

Watched plenty of clips from Eoin Hand and Charlton era and not everything was route one.

A myth if ever there was one.

Trap took the team from not qualifying under Stan to qualifying for a tourno.

Surely that's the next level?

I don't think it's Long that's the deluded one here

Dots1982

rarnes1 wrote: »

Trap took the team from not qualifying under Stan to qualifying for a tourno.

Surely that's the next level?

I don't think it's Long that's the deluded one here

He improved the team by playing a very agricultural style of football.

Saying he took it to the next level would mean he made us play in a superior way than we ever did before which is not the case.

premierstone

Dots1982 wrote: »

He improved the team by playing a very agricultural style of football.

Saying he took it to the next level would mean he made us play in a superior way than we ever did before which is not the case.

That may very well be your definition of the next level, but its a matter of interpretation really, I genuinely believe people forget how god awful we were prior to Trap.

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

He improved the team by playing a very agricultural style of football.

Saying he took it to the next level would mean he made us play in a superior way than we ever did before which is not the case.

You're surly taking the píss? Qualifying for a tournament is most definately stepping up a level.

Qualifying for a tournament >> playing great football.

Dots1982

MD1990 wrote: »

i can't understand Dunphy & Giles saying Traps football isnt the Irish way
its is the Irish way we have always played direct football

Pretty much, Dunphy has a misty eyed view coloured by the great players we have produced like Giles and Brady. For every Giles and Brady there are probably about 10 Tony Cascarinos/Jonathan Walters.

Dots1982

rarnes1 wrote: »

You're surly taking the píss? Qualifying for a tournament is most definately stepping up a level.

Qualifying for a tournament >> playing great football.

"The next level", we qualified for tournaments before Trap came here. Taking Irish football to the next level means taking football in Ireland to a level they never had experienced before. That's why it was called the next level. Trap restored us to a level we had previously experienced or exceeded.

Dempsey

Rhys Essien wrote: »

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

He did take us to the next level but the bar was set very low by the Staunton era

Dots1982

Dempsey wrote: »

He did take us to the next level but the bar was set very low by the Staunton era

That's improving the team in my opinion. Not taking it to the next level.

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

"The next level", we qualified for tournaments before Trap came here. Taking Irish football to the next level means taking football in Ireland to a level they never had experienced before. That's why it was called the next level. Trap restored us to a level we had previously experienced or exceeded.

So what would your example of next level be.

Semi's of the world cup?

Let's stay realistic of course.

Skylinehead

Dots1982 wrote: »

"The next level", we qualified for tournaments before Trap came here. Taking Irish football to the next level means taking football in Ireland to a level they never had experienced before. That's why it was called the next level. Trap restored us to a level we had previously experienced or exceeded.

No we didn't, we hadn't qualified for 3 tournaments before Trap arrived. Might as well start going on about Jack Charlton, 2002 is a long time ago now.

NaiveMelodies

It's his perspective.

How was his international career faring before Trap?
How had the team fared from when Long began playing professionally?
Trap was a step up from the post McCarthy era(who's reign also ended in a similarly poor qualification campaign.)

Long nearly got to a World Cup and got to a Euros.
A definite level up from what Long and his teammates had experienced from 2002-2009, which is what I can only presume Long is basing the statement on.

It's nice to see the players aren't judging Trap on this qualification campaign, all be it a very very poor one, alone.

Dots1982

rarnes1 wrote: »

So what would your example of next level be.

Semi's of the world cup?

Let's stay realistic of course.

Producing an Irish team that goes to the next level is not a results based thing.

Producing teams that play a continental possession game and can qualify for tournaments would be our next level. In 2002 was the only time we came close to this but we still relied on a substitute Beanpole striker (Quinny).

All Trap produced tactics wise was a Stoke type of football that took no brains or technical ability to execute. The Gk put the ball down and kicked it as hard as he could from goalkicks. Neither Centrehalf could bring the ball out of defence. We lost any midfield battle we were in and struggled to string 2 passes together in the opposition half.

Players that would be important in this style would be Ciaran Clark and Hoolahan as they can pass the ball. Mccarthy maybe. Precious few others though.

Come to think of it I'm not blaming Trap for not producing a team capable
of playing to the next level. we don't really have the players able to do it currently.

NaiveMelodies

Dots1982 wrote: »

Producing an Irish team that goes to the next level is not a results based thing.

Producing teams that play a continental possession game and can qualify for tournaments would be our next level. In 2002 was the only time we came close to this but we still relied on a substitute Beanpole striker (Quinny).

All Trap produced tactics wise was a Stoke type of football that took no brains or technical ability to execute. The Gk put the ball down and kicked it as hard as he could from goalkicks. Neither Centrehalf could bring the ball out of defence. We lost any midfield battle we were in and struggled to string 2 passes together in the opposition half.

Players that would be important in this style would be Ciaran Clark and Hoolahan as they can pass the ball. Mccarthy maybe. Precious few others though.

Come to think of it I'm not blaming Trap for not producing a team capable
of playing to the next level. we don't really have the players able to do it currently.

Well if the above is the definition of 'Next level of football' then Long most definitely has used the wrong term.

It's obvious what Long means, completely obvious.

Dots1982

only1stevo wrote: »

Well if the above is the definition of 'Next level of football' then Long most definitely has used the wrong term.

It's obvious what Long means, completely obvious.

He meant that team has improved under Trap. He didn't take Ireland to the next level.

NaiveMelodies

Dots1982 wrote: »

He meant that team has improved under Trap. He didn't take Ireland to the next level.

I know what he mean't.
Next level was a phrase he used to state facts.

You're saying the phrase 'next level' can only be defined in a particular way, bollix.

Next level could mean results, could mean fitness, could mean determination, could be discipline and by all means could mean a style of football, but not JUST football style.

roanoke

I personally rate the "but he got us to a tournament" argument is about a half step away from the "but he fixed the road!" argument for returning the local FF gombeen at election time. I'd wager anyone from Kerr to Eoin Hand could have qualified for Euro 2012 with those players and that opposition.

As for Long, players seem to generally be great fans of any manager who pick them. I wonder how Long's gonna feel about the next manager when he's dropped in favour of some new ringer who can actually kick a ball at something other than the goalies chest or Row Z.

Dots1982

only1stevo wrote: »

I know what he mean't.
Next level was a phrase he used to state facts.

You're saying the phrase 'next level' can only be defined in a particular way, bollix.

I know what he meant, he just overstated what Trap has achieved.

Say Spain have took the possession football to the next level. David Beckham took crossing to the next level (arguably). Arsene Wenger took Arsenal to the next level. The next level has a meaning in Football and it is building on something that hadn't existed before. Trappatoni probably done this in the 80's with catenaccio football taking defensive football to the next level.

You might not have heard of this but this is what Taking something to the next level means in any kind of football books or Journalism pieces

Paul Tergat

roanoke wrote: »

I personally rate the "but he got us to a tournament" argument is about a half step away from the "but he fixed the road!" argument for returning the local FF gombeen at election time. I'd wager anyone from Kerr to Eoin Hand could have qualified for Euro 2012 with those players and that opposition.

This is a load of rubbish

roanoke

Paul Tergat wrote: »

This is a load of rubbish

Ok, thanks for clearing that up then.

Paul Tergat

roanoke wrote: »

Ok, thanks for clearing that up then.

Do you honestly believe what you typed?

roanoke

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Do you honestly believe what you typed?

Absolutely. For clarification I don't literally mean you could take Eoin Hand or Brian Kerr out of retirement in Sep2010 and say "ok, off you go!".

I mean the Euro 2012 qualifying path was almost certainly the easiest any Irish team has ever had to negotiate in its history. Easier than anything either of those two managers were presented with in their time for example.

Dots1982

only1stevo wrote: »

I know what he mean't.
Next level was a phrase he used to state facts.

You're saying the phrase 'next level' can only be defined in a particular way, bollix.

Next level could mean results, could mean fitness, could mean determination, could be discipline and by all means could mean a style of football, but not JUST football style.

His exact quote was that Trap took "Irish Football" to the next level, so not just the Irish team but that Trap has taken the whole of Irish Football to never before scaled heights. I'll let you judge that.

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

His exact quote was that Trap took "Irish Football" to the next level, so not just the Irish team but that Trap has taken the whole of Irish Football to never before scaled heights. I'll let you judge that.

Yeah, that's what he meant I'd say

NaiveMelodies

Dots1982 wrote: »

His exact quote was that Trap took "Irish Football" to the next level, so not just the Irish team but that Trap has taken the whole of Irish Football to never before scaled heights. I'll let you judge that.

Jaysus.. he didn't say that..
It is possible to go down a few levels and then re-advance up a level or two.
Elevators, innit.

Paul Tergat

roanoke wrote: »

Absolutely. For clarification I don't literally mean you could take Eoin Hand or Brian Kerr out of retirement in Sep2010 and say "ok, off you go!".

I mean the Euro 2012 qualifying path was almost certainly the easiest any Irish team has ever had to negotiate in its history. Easier than anything either of those two managers were presented with in their time for example.

I think you are doing a massive disservice to Trap here.

ThunbergsAreGo

Intersting Long and Hunt both who people youd think youd think wouldnt be his biggest fan coming out to speak so positvely about him

smellmepower

He took us to to a level above for his first two qualifying campaigns when the players believed in his system and we had some decent,experienced players available,and accordingly we looked very organised during those two campaigns.

The performance at the Euro's obviously knocked that belief out of the squad,and that alongside our most influential players getting older and some retiring, has resulted in this qualifying campaign being very poor.

So Long is right in what he said,and I'd take his word over some of the Paul Hyland/Eamon Dunphy level ''Trap killed Irish football'' type hyperbole that has been spewed by a fair amount of posters on here,including the OP.

Dots1982

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what he meant I'd say

So trap's management of the senior side has been so great that it has taken the whole of Irish football to a new level.

noodler

Rhys Essien wrote: »

He said this on his Twitter.Deluded or what.

It just goes to show how out of touch that some of these players can be with the rest of the people.

Difficult to disagree with Long.

No play off for 10 years, then two come along consecutively.

NaiveMelodies

smellmepower wrote: »

He took us to to a level above for his first two qualifying campaigns when the players believed in his system and we had some decent,experienced players available,and accordingly we looked very organised during those two campaigns.

The performance at the Euro's obviously knocked that belief out of the squad,and that alongside our most influential players getting older and some retiring, has resulted in this qualifying campaign being very poor.

So Long is right in what he said,and I'd take his word over some of the Paul Hyland/Eamon Dunphy level ''Trap killed Irish football'' type hyperbole that has been spewed by a fair amount of posters on here,including the OP.

Spot on.

The decline of Duff, Dunne, Given and Keane coincided with a really poor Euro's and even poorer WC qualification campaign.

Long doesn't have to sell papers or books, journalists and pundits do.

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

So trap's management of the senior side has been so great that it has taken the whole of Irish football to a new level.

From not qualifying to qualifying = new level. You seem to have a hard time grasping this.