Coming over here taking our jobs

Zambia

Look out for today tonight this evening on backpackers.

The Aussie

Coming over here taking our jobs

Sound like a standard conversation between two Irishmen talking about Eastern Europeans.....

Oh yeh, they send all their money out of the country, don't integrate, are rude, don't smile but their "wimen ar hot"

Hear it all before

catbear

The Aussie wrote: »

Coming over here taking our jobs

Sound like a standard conversation between two Irishmen talking about Eastern Europeans.....

Oh yeh, they send all their money out of the country, don't integrate, are rude, don't smile but their "wimen ar hot"

Hear it all before

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Zambia

catbear wrote: »

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Did anyone watch it?

Batgurl

Zambia wrote: »

Did anyone watch it?

Caught bits of it.

All you could expect from the high quality programme really.

Lots of stats about how there are a quarter of a million backpackers here, 1 for every school leaver. Taking jobs etc.

Then they had a tiny blurb at the end about how backpackers are being taken advantage of and interviewed some Irish guy.

Nothing Pulitzer-worthy.

sin_city

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/latest/article/-/18881420/backpacker-jobs-battle/

ifeelill

Don't forget your women we're also taking your women :pac:

The Aussie

ifeelill wrote: »

Don't forget your women we're also taking your women :pac:

That my friend, is our gift to you....

Slideways

The Aussie wrote: »

That my friend, is our gift to you....

Gift...

ifeelill

The Aussie wrote: »

That my friend, is our gift to you....

That comment is so Tony Abbott, that's right I've turned your leader into an adjective what ya going to do about it :pac:

catbear

ifeelill wrote: »

Don't forget your women we're also taking your women :pac:

They can keep them!

The Aussie

ifeelill wrote: »

That comment is so Tony Abbott, that's right I've turned your leader into an adjective what ya going to do about it :pac:

Meh, another Backpacker (£10 Pom) who took an Australians Job.....:pac:
And some Welsh Ginger took his job before that.


So the Programme has been proved correct.
Who would have thought that. :eek:

danotroy

The Aussie wrote: »

Meh, another Backpacker (£10 Pom) who took an Australians Job.....:pac:
And some Welsh Ginger took his job before that.


So the Programme has been proved correct.
Who would have thought that. :eek:

Interesting to see that the brits make up the most backpackers. 19,000 irish whv people every year is a very large number in proportion to our population qnd considering that many people have already used their whv.

ifeelill

catbear wrote: »

They can keep them!

Forget pictures Julie Bishop I got video of Pauline Hansen hahahahahah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1-p0BzWa0

danotroy wrote: »

Interesting to see that the brits make up the most backpackers. 19,000 irish whv people every year is a very large number in proportion to our population qnd considering that many people have already used their whv.

I think we come in 2nd when i comes to 457 visa behind the UK, which is no mean feat. According to the RTE news there are 75,000 Irish people in Australia (total), 55,000 of which are in some form of employment.

skippy2

Maybe somebody better tell them they are actually giving out the Visas. Its like the Irish giving out about Foreign workers here, we cant be bothered doing the work they want to do but we constantly give out about them and if they left, the economy would probably collapse even more.....................

2Mad2BeMad

skippy2 wrote: »

Maybe somebody better tell them they are actually giving out the Visas. Its like the Irish giving out about Foreign workers here, we cant be bothered doing the work they want to do but we constantly give out about them and if they left, the economy would probably collapse even more.....................

i disagree , at this point i would do any job , fact is i cant because their are foreigners who are taking up employment, now it aint their fault, they want a job like anyone else, but these companys who are actually only hiring foreign people.

i dont mind foreigners getting jobs though, but i went into dublin city center, as i live quite close to it and every single shop i went into had nothing but foreigners working their, and they talk about equal opportunities, i've been busting my arse trying to get a job since been unemployed. So don't be saying "we" as implying all irish dont want jobs, because infact alot of irish unemployed would jump at the chance, the ones who wouldnt, are wasters.


i went into spar yesterday, my local spar. only foreigners working their, but of course the management are irish, and me trying to tell the young girl i want a packet of john player blue was unreal, you'd swear i was talking chinese to the young one.
i mean ya sure employ all the foreigners you want but at least make sure they can speak english first....

catbear

Last time i checked my passport was EU, these foreigners aren't foreign within the EU if they've got EU passports.

mandrake04

It's an employers market, the number of 417 holders many who arrived on the minimum funds using it as some sort of pseudo work visa instead of what it actually is... a holiday visa. Unscrupulous employers taking advantage of people offering to work an unpaid 'trial' just to try and get a job. Being on a WHV is a hindrance at the best of times, their only advantage is offering to work for buttons.

It all sounds very 457ish from earlier this year and that where the whole hype and 457 reforms stemed from, people willing to work for a lot less money to get the holy grail. Plenty of sabre rattling then did do damage to the 457 scheme with many employers shying away from them now. Maybe this is the start of a bit of sabre rattling over 417 which could be viewed as a training camp for 457 rorts, not sure what they could do about it. Prehaps a return to the 3 months max with an employer it's hard to say, but pre 2006 it seem to work well so don't know why they changed it.

catbear

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

i mean ya sure employ all the foreigners you want but at least make sure they can speak english first....

Do you have a strong accent? I've surprised many aussies and other nationalities when they discover i'm irish, "but i can understand what you're saying" is a common response.

I admit i struggle with some irish accents.

danotroy

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

i went into spar yesterday, my local spar. only foreigners working their, but of course the management are irish, and me trying to tell the young girl i want a packet of john player blue was unreal, you'd swear i was talking chinese to the young one.
.

you cant be doing too bad for your self if you can afford the luxury of smokes. Have you applied for a job at spar?

ifeelill

This is getting good

danotroy

not really a dig at 2mad2bemad more of a reference to this irish times article.

If people want a job there are jobs available even in Ireland. There are always minimum wage jobs to be filled.

The Aussie

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

i dont mind foreigners getting jobs though, but....

:pac:


Does that include me, I'm a foreigner working in Ireland?







* this is going to end well

ifeelill

The Aussie wrote: »

:pac:


Does that include me, I'm a foreigner working in Ireland?







* this is going to end well

So you're telling us you didn't like the Facebook page ?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Like-if-your-a-proud-Aussie-If-you-dont-like-then-****-of-WERE-FULL/224766147535021

jackbhoy

ifeelill wrote: »

So you're telling us you didn't like the Facebook page ?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Like-if-your-a-proud-Aussie-If-you-dont-like-then-****-of-WERE-FULL/224766147535021

Wow, that's some pretty impressive abuse of grammar, spelling and punctuation!!

"Like if your a proud Aussie, If you don't like(,)then **** of (,) WERE FULL"

The Aussie

ifeelill wrote: »

So you're telling us you didn't like the Facebook page ?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Like-if-your-a-proud-Aussie-If-you-dont-like-then-****-of-WERE-FULL/224766147535021

No, I prefer my Red Necks using quaint dated sayings...


"Stormfront Ireland White Nationalist issues in Ireland"

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/f41/

Besides, Facebook pages are ao amateurish.
Red Neck Forums allow for more abuse.

Zambia

Folks the point is well accepted that every nation has their red neck bogan knacker racist element.

Move on

catbear

I was once called a "tan" by a cetlic jersey wearing patriot simply because i said i enjoyed working with a polish crew.

Edit: sorry zambia, just saw your post.

markymark21

Taking all the jobs my eye! Trying to find good Aussies in hospitality is nigh impossible. This is coming from the owners I work for as well (both aussie)

danotroy

markymark21 wrote: »

Taking all the jobs my eye! Trying to find good Aussies in hospitality is nigh impossible. This is coming from the owners I work for as well (both aussie)

Marky. I know you are enthusiastic about your job and fair play to you, you got sponsored in hospitality great stuff. However filling hospitality roles is not that hard. Impossible... no. If your owners are struggling to find staff then they should improve their conditions.

mandrake04

Aussies and Permanent Residents are free to work in other jobs like mining, Police, Civil service etc, they don't need to be visa-tied to a job washing ashtrays and toilets to keep them in country.

I honestly wouldn't work in hospitality unless I was stuck and really had to, even then as soon as I found something more suitable I would be gone. It just doesnt appeal to me.

Was the same in Ireland when the Polish/Portuguese were gutting and plucking chickens Paddy opted to work in a comfy call centre. Some jobs people with choice are not intrested, for others there is very little choice.

As the old saying goes beggars can't be choosers.

danotroy

mandrake04 wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't work in hospitality unless I was stuck and really had to, even then as soon as I found something more suitable I would be gone. It just doesnt appeal to me.

I only work in hospitality as I have to. I am not under any illusion that it is a glamorous profession. Sponsorship was offered to me but I do not wish to make a career out of inebriation just yet.

However in hospitality here, melbourne, at least is different from home. Whilst I am in the opinion that being a barista or bartender should be a job you do whilst in college and not a career there is great money and lifestyle to be had here. Personally I work a 32-34 hour week and I take home at a minimum 700 a week. It allows me to intern 2 days a week and I also get about 20 dollars tips on the nights I work. However the real benefits come in the huge social circle that hospitality opens up and the free booze, coffee and food that come with the "click".

hussey

danotroy wrote: »

Marky. I know you are enthusiastic about your job and fair play to you, you got sponsored in hospitality great stuff. However filling hospitality roles is not that hard. Impossible... no. If your owners are struggling to find staff then they should improve their conditions.

Actually no, there is a huge staff shortage (skilled staff that is)
if the owner of over 6 multi-hatted restaurants says he cannot find skilled staff, then I would believe him
http://www.hospitalitymagazine.com.au/accommodation/380-steak-top-chefs-stew-on-labour-shortage-insect and \
http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news/18-09-2012/celebrity-chefs-look-to-australia-visa-to-solve-staff-shortages.aspx
(I know that is 2012, but he had a recent article in goodfood too, I just can't find it)
The entire hospitality industry here is under staffed and under skilled

danotroy

hussey wrote: »

Actually no, there is a huge staff shortage (skilled staff that is)
if the owner of over 6 multi-hatted restaurants says he cannot find skilled staff, then I would believe him
http://www.hospitalitymagazine.com.au/accommodation/380-steak-top-chefs-stew-on-labour-shortage-insect and \
http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news/18-09-2012/celebrity-chefs-look-to-australia-visa-to-solve-staff-shortages.aspx
(I know that is 2012, but he had a recent article in goodfood too, I just can't find it)
The entire hospitality industry here is under staffed and under skilled

My experience is in regular hospitality i.e bars and cafes. I have little hands on knowledge of the high end eateries. But I do know many chefs/wait staff/bartenders who would not touch a job in Crown or high end waiting. Sure you get paid a premium, which is not all that much more than is on offer in regular hospitality gigs, but you sacrifice so much more in creativity/personal dress code and work attitude.

All of which do not matter in the real world but for those working in hospitality these things begin to matter.

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

sin_city

danotroy wrote: »

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

And anyone working in the shops that sell scented candles?


Come on, each individual case is different.

mandrake04

danotroy wrote: »

I only work in hospitality as I have to. I am not under any illusion that it is a glamorous profession. Sponsorship was offered to me but I do not wish to make a career out of inebriation just yet.

Well you have to do what you have to do, it not rocket science go to London or New York and most hospitality staff outside of Management tend to be migrants.
In Australia it tends to suit foreign students, backpackers and unskilled dependants of skilled PRs.

must say I am in Ireland at the moment and have noticed a big change since 2007, a lot less foreigners and more Irish in hospitality these days.

Zambia

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well you have to do what you have to do, it not rocket science go to London or New York and most hospitality staff outside of Management tend to be migrants.
In Australia it tends to suit foreign students, backpackers and unskilled dependants of skilled PRs.

must say I am in Ireland at the moment and have noticed a big change since 2007, a lot less foreigners and more Irish in hospitality these days.

The old Irish bar staff were a wonder of the western world.

Remember it used to be a 4 year apprenticeship?

ifeelill

Zambia wrote: »

The old Irish bar staff were a wonder of the western world.

Remember it used to be a 4 year apprenticeship?

4 years at least ..... Longer if you're on the other side of the bar

markymark21

danotroy wrote: »

My experience is in regular hospitality i.e bars and cafes. I have little hands on knowledge of the high end eateries. But I do know many chefs/wait staff/bartenders who would not touch a job in Crown or high end waiting. Sure you get paid a premium, which is not all that much more than is on offer in regular hospitality gigs, but you sacrifice so much more in creativity/personal dress code and work attitude.

All of which do not matter in the real world but for those working in hospitality these things begin to matter.

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

Nah Hussey is right, It is hard to get 'good' staff! Its taken me months to put together a good team in work. Finding people with a mix of work ethic, attitude, personalty and looks is tricky. I was giving people trials every week but most were duds. I get five or six CV's a day - doesn't mean they are any good though.

Anyway I didn't see that Today Tonight program but there is always going to be some resentment if 'foreigners' are getting jobs and Aussies are out of work. Bound to get worse if the un-employment rate keeps creeping up as well.

catbear

danotroy wrote: »

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

When you're constantly receiving CVs it becomes very apparent that most 457s are head and shoulders above the locals in both drive and experience and that's what ultimately decides recruitment.
As the saying goes, those with get and go, get up and go!

ifeelill

markymark21 wrote: »

Anyway I didn't see that Today Tonight program but there is always going to be some resentment if 'foreigners' are getting jobs and Aussies are out of work.

I only seen the five minute clip someone linked in this thread, and it seemed like an unbiased clip, young people out of work not able to give the employer the flexibility a backpacker can, not willing to work in the conditions provided etc etc.

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

I only seen the five minute clip someone linked in this thread, and it seemed like an unbiased clip, young people out of work not able to give the employer the flexibility a backpacker can, not willing to work in the conditions provided etc etc.

Farmer said that backpackers were essential to his business because harvest work is too inconsistent for young local workers, I imagine same for those in hospitality in small summers towns. Work is only seasonal and not really there during low season so unattractive to people looking full time career.

People can't really complain about it to much, the government encourages farm work and fruit picking to get the second year visa. But maybe a return to max 3 months per employer would be better as its a good compromise.

ifeelill

mandrake04 wrote: »

maybe a return to max 3 months per employer would be better as its a good compromise.

Compromise to who ? You said it yourself the conditions don't suit people looking for a career that wont change by returning to the 3 month rule

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

Compromise to who ? You said it yourself the conditions don't suit people looking for a career that wont change by returning to the 3 month rule

That's right, a return to the 3 months suits better helps move backpackers on and share the work around it worked well for 30 years until they changed it and it would keep the locals from whinging. Think I might mention it to my local MP as I had a good chat to him about visas and immigration when he was asking for my vote a few weeks ago.

The Aussie

I still think it's yet to sink in for some people that it's called a Working Holiday Visa, not a "I'm here trying to get sponsored in 6 months" visa

ifeelill

mandrake04 wrote: »

That's right, a return to the 3 months suits better helps move backpackers on and share the work around

I assume you mean among other backpackers, as it has been established that these jobs dont suit locals

mandrake04 wrote: »

it would keep the locals from whinging.

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.

"Our people aren't getting a fair go" will be played to death by Labour and the unions while the other party will bang on about black people i mean boat people coming over swelling up the welfare ranks.

My point here is that a small change to the WHV isn't going to change how the electorate feels about immigration, and with both political parties using both forms of immigration legal and illegal to bash their political opponents its a situation thats not going to change anytime soon.

catbear

ifeelill wrote: »

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.
.

Which is why they need more immigrants, they're too many dumbed down local applicants.

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

Which is why they need more immigrants, they're too many dumbed down local applicants.

Is that because the immigrants are unemployable in their own country :rolleyes:

Batgurl

The Aussie wrote: »

Is that because the immigrants are unemployable in their own country :rolleyes:

Nah its cause all the highly skilled ones like you Aussie emigrated to better countries like Ireland!!! :P there's a skills shortage since you left!

The Aussie

Batgurl wrote: »

Nah its cause all the highly skilled ones like you Aussie emigrated to better countries like Ireland!!! :P there's a skills shortage since you left!

I'm actually the reason why the construction industry collapsed, I turned up on a Monday morning, by Thursday all the work was done.



There is a good Chuck Norris joke in there somewhere :pac:

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

I assume you mean among other backpackers, as it has been established that these jobs dont suit locals

Yes too many backpackers (even on here) complain about not being able to find work, if they went back to 3 month rule then it would prevent 1 backpacker from 'camping' in the same job for 6 months and let another have a better shot of getting 3 months work. WHV by its nature and small print is a holiday visa with casual work entitlements, 3 months is even more casual than 6 months.

Looking at it from the outside I think 3 months max is far fairer.

ifeelill wrote: »

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.

"Our people aren't getting a fair go" will be played to death by Labour and the unions while the other party will bang on about black people i mean boat people coming over swelling up the welfare ranks.

My point here is that a small change to the WHV isn't going to change how the electorate feels about immigration, and with both political parties using both forms of immigration legal and illegal to bash their political opponents its a situation thats not going to change anytime soon.

Well you are right it's all politics, but doesnt have to be negative there was problems with the 457 which most people didn't know about even the government but a bit of a shove in the right direction and they caught on to the rorts and at least tried to fix it even though it still needs tightening a bit more. Like I said the WHV worked well for 30 years on 3 months max per employer they should have left it alone for the above reasons, the 2nd year for 3 months regional work was a good idea. Government sometimes needs a bit of a shove to see these things.