Judge Laffoy saves Denis O'Brien €57,000,000

Cody Pomeray

(plus costs)

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/court-ruling-saves-denis-o-brien-57-million-in-tax-1.1518621

Billionaire businessman Denis O’Brien today won a battle with Revenue that saves him paying nearly €57 million in Capital Gains Tax.
Ms Justice Mary Laffoy agreed in the High Court with the decision of a Revenue Appeals Commissioner that Mr O’Brien’s permanent home in the tax year 2000/2001 was Quinta de Lago, Almanscil, Portugal, and not Ireland.
“Having regard to the evidence given and the facts found by the appeals commissioner, he was correct in holding that 6 Raglan Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4, was not a permanent home available to the appellant for the tax year 2000/2001 for the purposes of Article 4.2 of the Ireland/Portugal Double Taxation Convention,” the judge said.

Absolutely farcical.

The decision essentially seems to have turned on the fact that O'Brien and his family had turfed the Aga and the kitchen units out of their Ballsbridge home, rendering it 'uninhabitable'.

Uninhabitable... There are low waged people living in that area who sleep, cook, and live in their one roomed bedsits, paying handsomely in tax from their low wages.

O'Brien made a decision to renovate a perfectly habitable house, and for this reason, the justice system scribbles out his €60 million tax bill.

Fr_Dougal

What do you expect? Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Augmerson

1 rule for us, different rules for them. In which I mean no ****ing rules apply.

eug87

Well he did pay his T.V licence.

Cody Pomeray

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

What do you expect? Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.

No it's not, but ridiculous decisions like this (and this is not the woman's first absurd judgement), create that impression and deplete confidence in the justice system.

Laffoy caused a constitutional crisis in 2006 when she let a sex offender out of prison, and said she was unconcerned with the "appalling vista" of other sex offenders being similarly released. Thankfully that decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

But it's OK, Fine Gael have installed her in the Supreme Court now too.

Karl Stein

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Not just ours. Most judicial systems are two tiered.

There's an excellent talk here by former constitutional rights lawyer Glen Greenwald and political activist Noam Chomsky on how the game is rigged in that way.

KyussBishop

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Not just ours. Most judicial systems are two tiered.

There's an excellent talk here by former constitutional rights lawyer Glen Greenwald and political activist Noam Chomsky on how the game is rigged in that way.

A book too, which is a good (important even) read.

I would have taken that Aga off his hands .

bleg

Revenue said he wasn't resident here. Fair enough. Why appeal? Revenue are usually on the ball with issues like this.

Probably due to the possibility of gaining €57 million with a chance of losing comparatively little in legal costs. Risk/benefit ratio and all that. For this high profile case that Revenue lose they probably win 50 others.

There are still plenty of reasons to dislike Denis O'Brien though. He's from Cork and was found to have bribed politicians.

ucd.1985

bleg wrote: »

Revenue said he wasn't resident here. Fair enough. Why appeal? Revenue are usually on the ball with issues like this.

Probably due to the possibility of gaining €57 million with a chance of losing comparatively little in legal costs. Risk/benefit ratio and all that. For this high profile case that Revenue lose they probably win 50 others.

There are still plenty of reasons to dislike Denis O'Brien though. He's from Cork and was found to have bribed politicians.

Incorrect. Revenue argued he was resident here and assessed him to CGT on the gain.

DO'B appealed to the Appeal Commissioners who ruled he wasn't resident here. Revenue appealed to the High Court on a point of law.

DO'B followed the law to the letter and as such Laffoy had no option but to rule in his favour. Blame the legislators.

Fraggle Rock

I may be missing something here but I don't think the fact he renovated the house means he lives there most of the time.

People fix houses all the time even though they may be holiday homes etc.

I don't like O Brien in general but targeting people who you're not a fan of over things that are not questionable can lead to them getting away with other things or the crucial matters not being focussed in on.

thebaz

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Laffoy caused a constitutional crisis in 2006 when she let a sex offender out of prison, and said she was unconcerned with the "appalling vista" of other sex offenders being similarly released. Thankfully that decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

But it's OK, Fine Gael have installed her in the Supreme Court now too.

on what grounds or why, was she promoted (installed) to the Supreme Court ?

can someone explain , I'm baffled

ucd.1985

Fraggle Rock wrote: »

I may be missing something here but I don't think the fact he renovated the house means he lives there most of the time.

People fix houses all the time even though they may be holiday homes etc.

I don't like O Brien in general but targeting people who you're not a fan of over things that are not questionable can lead to them getting away with other things or the crucial matters not being focussed in on.

Exactly. The fact that the house was being refurbished was an additional argument to the fact that the house couldn't have been his permanent home for that tax year.

Even if the house hadn't been refurbished he still would have argued that the property was not his permanent home for the year.

tommy2bad

Jesus this must date back to the days when a chimney brest constituted a habitable residence.

Break80

Wins a licence for 17 million another bidder was willing to pay 50+. Sells the company a few years later for over a billion.
Recently buys a company in a field he has no experience of whatsoever. Pays 50 million with a 100 million debt written off again with another party willing to pay more with no debt writedown. His new company recently awarded one third of the contract for the installation of water meters countrywide.Now walks away from a 57,000,000 tax bill.
IS THIS THE GREATEST BUSINESSMAN THIS COUNTRY EVER HAD?

Weevil

How will the minister for communications feel about this God of All Things Evasive being cosy with his smug bedfellows?

mylesm

what other country would allow a man who made millions from the Irish People by selling the Mobile Phone Licence awarded to him by the Irish People then jumps ship so he avoids paying tax to that country and then we allow him to pay the wages of the National Soccer Team Manager its crazy but these people seem to feel that if they make a donation to a hospital or school they are fulfilling their obligations

Nothing makes me more sick than people who become tax exiles this country made them educated them and of course they should pay tax here

How do they expect the country to have all the services if people dont pay tax

But still if These people walked into a room people would still fawn over them while compliant taxpayers would be ignored or refused entry

See the rats on late late still Banana Republic Septic Isle

Nodin

Weevil wrote: »

How will the minister for communications feel about this God of All Things Evasive being cosy with his smug bedfellows?

....as he seems to be towing the FG line on Dinny, it will doubtless remain between him and Jesus.

emo72

Break80 wrote: »

Wins a licence for 17 million another bidder was willing to pay 50+. Sells the company a few years later for over a billion.
Recently buys a company in a field he has no experience of whatsoever. Pays 50 million with a 100 million debt written off again with another party willing to pay more with no debt writedown. His new company recently awarded one third of the contract for the installation of water meters countrywide.Now walks away from a 57,000,000 tax bill.
IS THIS THE GREATEST BUSINESSMAN THIS COUNTRY EVER HAD?

dont hold back dude!

yea its unbelievable when you see it written down like that. the guy is a ****ing genius :rolleyes:

HansHolzel

My one Denis O’Brien story involves that house. It must have been back in the mid-Noughties when it happened on Raglan Road. A sports car was being hoisted into a big removal truck on the road but I was in a flat with a pal by the time we heard the loud bang.

It was a French lady resident who actually witnessed it, on her way back from a shop. She came back into the flat a minute later.

"O’Brien will not be happy. Zey have made sheet of his car."

Stainless_Steel

Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.

Busted Flat.

It sums up the justice in this country. What a sick sorrowful little $hit house this is.

Gee Bag

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.

If by begrudgery you mean despising a self-righteous, tax dodging, corrupt payment peddling wanker who consistently tries to silence legitamate media investigation by using his wealth to take spurrious legal cases then yea, I'm a begrudger and I'm fvckin' proud of it.

johnmcdnl

So the important question - did he declare and pay his taxes in Portugal and if he was resident there?

Stainless_Steel

Gee Bag wrote: »

If by begrudgery you mean despising a self-righteous, tax dodging, corrupt payment peddling wanker who consistently tries to silence legitamate media investigation by using his wealth to take spurrious legal cases then yea, I'm a begrudger and I'm fvckin' proud of it.

Let it all out man...

Gee Bag

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Let it all out man...

I usually tend to get annoyed when people confuse indignation with begrudgery.

Robbo

mylesm wrote: »

what other country would allow a man who made millions from the Irish People by selling the Mobile Phone Licence awarded to him by the Irish People then jumps ship so he avoids paying tax to that country and then we allow him to pay the wages of the National Soccer Team Manager its crazy but these people seem to feel that if they make a donation to a hospital or school they are fulfilling their obligations

And yet very few call out JP McManus on this. Some bread and circuses in the greater Limerick parish and you're ****ing untouchable.

Nodin

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.

.....aren't we forgetting the corruption? Aren't we forgetting the petty litigious nature of the man?

ucd.1985

johnmcdnl wrote: »

So the important question - did he declare and pay his taxes in Portugal and if he was resident there?

Yes he did, but the way the law is written is that he was only subject to tax on the amount of gain which arose from when he arrived in Portugal which was only a couple of thousand.

Guy:Incognito

Yeah one rule for us.........

All those ****ing millionaires out robbing shops and stealing cars getting let off and racking up 50/60/70 convictions make me sick. Bloody rich people.

ucd.1985

I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people wouldn't do the exact same thing to save €57 million.

What he did, confirmed by both the Appeal Commissioners and the High Court, was 100% legal.

If you're involved in a deal that side of course you're going to take professional tax advice. Its up to the legislators to make sure that there are no loopholes.

Maybe our government weren't too busy spending €15,000 in the Dail bar whilst debating legislation things like this wouldn't happen as much.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

(plus costs)

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/court-ruling-saves-denis-o-brien-57-million-in-tax-1.1518621



Absolutely farcical.

The decision essentially seems to have turned on the fact that O'Brien and his family had turfed the Aga and the kitchen units out of their Ballsbridge home, rendering it 'uninhabitable'.

Uninhabitable... There are low waged people living in that area who sleep, cook, and live in their one roomed bedsits, paying handsomely in tax from their low wages.

O'Brien made a decision to renovate a perfectly habitable house, and for this reason, the justice system scribbles out his €60 million tax bill.

Disgraceful post and highly misrepresentative.
All the judge did was find that the Revenue Appeals Commissioner had made the correct decision in law!
The Inspector of Taxes was appealing the finding of the Revenue Appeals Commissioner and failed in that appeal.
O'Brien did substantially more than rip the aga btw as anyone who had followed the case would know.

Ms Justice Laffoy said that although 6 Raglan Road was owned by a company controlled by Mr O'Brien, he had no personal link with the property.

She added that he had not arranged to have the house available to him, and that construction works were under way from June 2000 to February 2002, which would have made the property unfit to be occupied.

A number of architectural and building experts had considered the property in need of extensive renovation that was not completed until 2002.

donegal__road

ucd.1985 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people wouldn't do the exact same thing to save €57 million.

What he did, confirmed by both the Appeal Commissioners and the High Court, was 100% legal.

If you're involved in a deal that side of course you're going to take professional tax advice. Its up to the legislators to make sure that there are no loopholes.

Maybe our government weren't too busy spending €15,000 in the Dail bar whilst debating legislation things like this wouldn't happen as much.

DOB is FG's biggest financial backer

Sir Humphrey Appleby

donegal__road wrote: »

DOB is FG's biggest financial backer

really, you have evidence of this?
FF were in Government when these decisions were made.

KwackerJack

I think ill become a fraud business man or a drug dealer on the dole.

Seems to be a better and safer way of life.....in Ireland anyhow!

Once your in with the 'In crowd' your grand, but if your a peasant living in a little house paying your taxes and living a normal life your a nobody and if you step out of line they destroy you!

Is it any wonder we've become so selfish, is it any wonder our brightest and best our fleeing our little Island!

Only way to live happy in this country is to be a criminal or a filthy rich business man with our leaders in his pockets!

TommiesTank

Very surprised at the lack of impartiality from Cody here, he clearly has an axe to grind.

Aidric

ucd.1985 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people wouldn't do the exact same thing to save €57 million.

What he did, confirmed by both the Appeal Commissioners and the High Court, was 100% legal.

If you're involved in a deal that side of course you're going to take professional tax advice. Its up to the legislators to make sure that there are no loopholes.

Maybe our government weren't too busy spending €15,000 in the Dail bar whilst debating legislation things like this wouldn't happen as much.

Yep, but that won't appease the rabble rousers. Tax accountants are operating within the legal parameters afforded them and any right thinking businessman is going to use them to his benefit.

Direct your anger towards the legislators.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

TommiesTank wrote: »

Very surprised at the lack of impartiality from Cody here, he clearly has an axe to grind.

With you on that, blaming a judge for upholding the law.

donegal__road

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

really, you have evidence of this?
FF were in Government when these decisions were made.

google it.. too many links to post here

Sir Humphrey Appleby

donegal__road wrote: »

google it.. too many links to post here

I'll take that as a NO then, thought so!

As I said FF were in power when this happened , not FG.

Cody Pomeray

thebaz wrote: »

on what grounds or why, was she promoted (installed) to the Supreme Court ?

There's no doubt but that Laffoy has enough intellectual acuity to hold office as a Judge. But, of course, there are lots of able and intelligent people of whom you could say the same thing, who have not been appointed to the bench. Laffoy, of course, is a FGer and was appointed to both the High Court and the Supreme Court by Fine Gael Governments. That's more of a criticism of Fine Gael's lazy decision making than it is, necessarily, a dismissal of the woman's own abilities.

I'm not trying to suggest she is not competent. I'm just suggesting that she has arrived at some really unfortunate, highly questionable decisions. In some cases... Fyffe, Mr A, we have been saved from those decisions by the Supreme Court. I think her appointment to the Supreme Court is bewildering for a number of reasons.

ucd.1985 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people wouldn't do the exact same thing to save €57 million.

I have no doubt about this either. The difficulty is not with Denis O'Brien's initial appeal, but with the determination of the Revenue Appeal Commissioner and the High Court's emphatic vindication of that decision , including the basis upon which the decision was arrived at.

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

O'Brien did substantially more than rip the aga btw as anyone who had followed the case would know.

The previous occupiers of 6 Raglan Road outlined in their testimony how, when they sold their home (reluctantly, I gather), it was a comfortable, very habitable mansion.

The Double taxation convention applies"

2. ...an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then his status shall be determined as follows:

(a) he shall be deemed to be a resident of the Contracting State in which he has a permanent home available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both Contracting States, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the Contracting State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);

In my opinion, Judge laffoy placed inappropriate emphasis on the discretionary nature of the improvements made to the house in deciding that the house on Raglan Road was not a permanent home "available to" Denis O Brien. It was a house in his possession which by his will he was in the process of making more desirable to his taste. And yes, that includes turfing out the Aga and the kitchen units.

This is an unrealistic and frankly silly interpretation of the law, including when taken in light of the case law opened to the court, by Mr O'Brien's neighbour Judge Laffoy.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

There's no doubt but that Laffoy has enough intellectual acuity to hold office as a Judge. But, of course, there are lots of able and intelligent people of whom you could say the same thing, who have not been appointed to the bench. Laffoy, of course, is a FGer and was appointed to both the High Court and the Supreme Court by Fine Gael Governments. That's more of a criticism of Fine Gael's lazy decision making than it is, necessarily, a dismissal of the woman's own abilities.



This is an unrealistic and frankly silly interpretation of the law, including when taken in light of the case law opened to the court, by Mr O'Brien's neighbour Judge Laffoy.

Those two statements are disgraceful especially the latter which clearly seeks to impugn the integrity of the Judge and clearly infers that she swayed by the fact the she is allegedly Mr O'Brien's neighbour (though since he is a resident of Portugal I fail to see how that can be).

I trust that once Judge Laffoy becomes aware of the nature of these allegations she will take action on them.

Cody Pomeray

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Those two statements are disgraceful especially the latter which clearly seeks to impugn the integrity of the Judge and clearly infers that she swayed by the fact the she is allegedly Mr O'Brien's neighbour (though since he is a resident of Portugal I fail to see how that can be).

O Brien took up residence in Ballsbridge around 2003 or 2004. The fact that Laffoy is his neighbour is incidental; the fact that many judicial appointments are political is not.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

O Brien took up residence in Ballsbridge around 2003 or 2004. The fact that Laffoy is his neighbour is incidental; the fact that many judicial appointments are political is not.

But not so incidental that you needed throw it out there as a poorly veiled inference of Judicial misconduct.
I'm very surprised Cody, usually I welcome your posts, but you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this particular judge and I believe you have crossed a line.

ucd.1985

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

In my opinion, Judge laffoy placed inappropriate emphasis on the discretionary nature of the improvements made to the house in deciding that the house on Raglan Road was not a permanent home "available to" Denis O Brien.

I disagree, and obviously his advisors were comfortable that a house under rennovation could not be classed a habitable home, never mind a permanent home available to DO'B.

If there was a possibility of this they would have ensured that the house was rented out for the period concerned.

SafeSurfer

I'm sure the story will be examined in full in tomorrow's Sunday Independent. And on Today fm and Newstalk during the week.

Hootanany

I wonder what Football team she supports now?

user040913

bleg wrote: »

There are still plenty of reasons to dislike Denis O'Brien though. He's from Cork and was found to have bribed politicians.

This country would be nothing without Cork.

TiGeR KiNgS

Excellent judgement.

Best thing for the economy is to have the individual keep the money he/she earned.

Government will just end up wasting it on some garbage/overpriced public program or put it to that black hole of debt.

Busted Flat.

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Excellent judgement.

Best thing for the economy is to have the individual keep the money he/she earned.

Government will just end up wasting it on some garbage/overpriced public program or put it to that black hole of debt.

Did you ever think of having a reality check.

Busted Flat.

user040913 wrote: »

This country would be nothing without Cork.

That is the problem, we had an idiot from Cork who was elected Tshirt, he and Martin O'Donahue made a complete bolli(k$ out of the country. Look after your own little town. Ye are not capable of leadership.