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Judge Laffoy saves Denis O'Brien €57,000,000

  • 06-09-2013 07:52PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭


    (plus costs)

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/court-ruling-saves-denis-o-brien-57-million-in-tax-1.1518621
    Billionaire businessman Denis O’Brien today won a battle with Revenue that saves him paying nearly €57 million in Capital Gains Tax.
    Ms Justice Mary Laffoy agreed in the High Court with the decision of a Revenue Appeals Commissioner that Mr O’Brien’s permanent home in the tax year 2000/2001 was Quinta de Lago, Almanscil, Portugal, and not Ireland.
    “Having regard to the evidence given and the facts found by the appeals commissioner, he was correct in holding that 6 Raglan Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4, was not a permanent home available to the appellant for the tax year 2000/2001 for the purposes of Article 4.2 of the Ireland/Portugal Double Taxation Convention,” the judge said.

    Absolutely farcical.

    The decision essentially seems to have turned on the fact that O'Brien and his family had turfed the Aga and the kitchen units out of their Ballsbridge home, rendering it 'uninhabitable'.

    Uninhabitable... There are low waged people living in that area who sleep, cook, and live in their one roomed bedsits, paying handsomely in tax from their low wages.

    O'Brien made a decision to renovate a perfectly habitable house, and for this reason, the justice system scribbles out his €60 million tax bill.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    What do you expect? Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    1 rule for us, different rules for them. In which I mean no ****ing rules apply.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 134 ✭✭eug87


    Well he did pay his T.V licence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    What do you expect? Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.

    No it's not, but ridiculous decisions like this (and this is not the woman's first absurd judgement), create that impression and deplete confidence in the justice system.

    Laffoy caused a constitutional crisis in 2006 when she let a sex offender out of prison, and said she was unconcerned with the "appalling vista" of other sex offenders being similarly released. Thankfully that decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

    But it's OK, Fine Gael have installed her in the Supreme Court now too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Our legal system is an old boys club, rotten to the core when it comes to this sort of stuff.

    Not just ours. Most judicial systems are two tiered.

    There's an excellent talk here by former constitutional rights lawyer Glen Greenwald and political activist Noam Chomsky on how the game is rigged in that way.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Not just ours. Most judicial systems are two tiered.

    There's an excellent talk here by former constitutional rights lawyer Glen Greenwald and political activist Noam Chomsky on how the game is rigged in that way.
    A book too, which is a good (important even) read.


  • Posts: 6,321 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    :( I would have taken that Aga off his hands .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Revenue said he wasn't resident here. Fair enough. Why appeal? Revenue are usually on the ball with issues like this.

    Probably due to the possibility of gaining €57 million with a chance of losing comparatively little in legal costs. Risk/benefit ratio and all that. For this high profile case that Revenue lose they probably win 50 others.

    There are still plenty of reasons to dislike Denis O'Brien though. He's from Cork and was found to have bribed politicians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭ucd.1985


    bleg wrote: »
    Revenue said he wasn't resident here. Fair enough. Why appeal? Revenue are usually on the ball with issues like this.

    Probably due to the possibility of gaining €57 million with a chance of losing comparatively little in legal costs. Risk/benefit ratio and all that. For this high profile case that Revenue lose they probably win 50 others.

    There are still plenty of reasons to dislike Denis O'Brien though. He's from Cork and was found to have bribed politicians.

    Incorrect. Revenue argued he was resident here and assessed him to CGT on the gain.

    DO'B appealed to the Appeal Commissioners who ruled he wasn't resident here. Revenue appealed to the High Court on a point of law.

    DO'B followed the law to the letter and as such Laffoy had no option but to rule in his favour. Blame the legislators.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 Fraggle Rock


    I may be missing something here but I don't think the fact he renovated the house means he lives there most of the time.

    People fix houses all the time even though they may be holiday homes etc.

    I don't like O Brien in general but targeting people who you're not a fan of over things that are not questionable can lead to them getting away with other things or the crucial matters not being focussed in on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,933 ✭✭✭✭thebaz



    Laffoy caused a constitutional crisis in 2006 when she let a sex offender out of prison, and said she was unconcerned with the "appalling vista" of other sex offenders being similarly released. Thankfully that decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

    But it's OK, Fine Gael have installed her in the Supreme Court now too.

    on what grounds or why, was she promoted (installed) to the Supreme Court ?

    can someone explain , I'm baffled :confused::confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭ucd.1985


    I may be missing something here but I don't think the fact he renovated the house means he lives there most of the time.

    People fix houses all the time even though they may be holiday homes etc.

    I don't like O Brien in general but targeting people who you're not a fan of over things that are not questionable can lead to them getting away with other things or the crucial matters not being focussed in on.

    Exactly. The fact that the house was being refurbished was an additional argument to the fact that the house couldn't have been his permanent home for that tax year.

    Even if the house hadn't been refurbished he still would have argued that the property was not his permanent home for the year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Jesus this must date back to the days when a chimney brest constituted a habitable residence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭Break80


    Wins a licence for 17 million another bidder was willing to pay 50+. Sells the company a few years later for over a billion.
    Recently buys a company in a field he has no experience of whatsoever. Pays 50 million with a 100 million debt written off again with another party willing to pay more with no debt writedown. His new company recently awarded one third of the contract for the installation of water meters countrywide.Now walks away from a 57,000,000 tax bill.
    IS THIS THE GREATEST BUSINESSMAN THIS COUNTRY EVER HAD?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    How will the minister for communications feel about this God of All Things Evasive being cosy with his smug bedfellows?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭mylesm


    what other country would allow a man who made millions from the Irish People by selling the Mobile Phone Licence awarded to him by the Irish People then jumps ship so he avoids paying tax to that country and then we allow him to pay the wages of the National Soccer Team Manager its crazy but these people seem to feel that if they make a donation to a hospital or school they are fulfilling their obligations

    Nothing makes me more sick than people who become tax exiles this country made them educated them and of course they should pay tax here

    How do they expect the country to have all the services if people dont pay tax

    But still if These people walked into a room people would still fawn over them while compliant taxpayers would be ignored or refused entry

    See the rats on late late still Banana Republic Septic Isle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Weevil wrote: »
    How will the minister for communications feel about this God of All Things Evasive being cosy with his smug bedfellows?


    ....as he seems to be towing the FG line on Dinny, it will doubtless remain between him and Jesus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭emo72


    Break80 wrote: »
    Wins a licence for 17 million another bidder was willing to pay 50+. Sells the company a few years later for over a billion.
    Recently buys a company in a field he has no experience of whatsoever. Pays 50 million with a 100 million debt written off again with another party willing to pay more with no debt writedown. His new company recently awarded one third of the contract for the installation of water meters countrywide.Now walks away from a 57,000,000 tax bill.
    IS THIS THE GREATEST BUSINESSMAN THIS COUNTRY EVER HAD?

    dont hold back dude!

    yea its unbelievable when you see it written down like that. the guy is a ****ing genius :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    My one Denis O’Brien story involves that house. It must have been back in the mid-Noughties when it happened on Raglan Road. A sports car was being hoisted into a big removal truck on the road but I was in a flat with a pal by the time we heard the loud bang.

    It was a French lady resident who actually witnessed it, on her way back from a shop. She came back into the flat a minute later.

    "O’Brien will not be happy. Zey have made sheet of his car."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Stainless_Steel


    Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    It sums up the justice in this country. What a sick sorrowful little $hit house this is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.

    If by begrudgery you mean despising a self-righteous, tax dodging, corrupt payment peddling wanker who consistently tries to silence legitamate media investigation by using his wealth to take spurrious legal cases then yea, I'm a begrudger and I'm fvckin' proud of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    So the important question - did he declare and pay his taxes in Portugal and if he was resident there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Stainless_Steel


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    If by begrudgery you mean despising a self-righteous, tax dodging, corrupt payment peddling wanker who consistently tries to silence legitamate media investigation by using his wealth to take spurrious legal cases then yea, I'm a begrudger and I'm fvckin' proud of it.

    Let it all out man...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Let it all out man...

    I usually tend to get annoyed when people confuse indignation with begrudgery.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    mylesm wrote: »
    what other country would allow a man who made millions from the Irish People by selling the Mobile Phone Licence awarded to him by the Irish People then jumps ship so he avoids paying tax to that country and then we allow him to pay the wages of the National Soccer Team Manager its crazy but these people seem to feel that if they make a donation to a hospital or school they are fulfilling their obligations
    And yet very few call out JP McManus on this. Some bread and circuses in the greater Limerick parish and you're ****ing untouchable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Usual Irish begrudgery in this thread. Cute hoor O'Brien has made a few pound. Because of his smarts he will always be a rich fooker. And yee are all jealous. Pathetic.


    .....aren't we forgetting the corruption? Aren't we forgetting the petty litigious nature of the man?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭ucd.1985


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    So the important question - did he declare and pay his taxes in Portugal and if he was resident there?

    Yes he did, but the way the law is written is that he was only subject to tax on the amount of gain which arose from when he arrived in Portugal which was only a couple of thousand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Yeah one rule for us.........

    All those ****ing millionaires out robbing shops and stealing cars getting let off and racking up 50/60/70 convictions make me sick. Bloody rich people.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭ucd.1985


    I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people wouldn't do the exact same thing to save €57 million.

    What he did, confirmed by both the Appeal Commissioners and the High Court, was 100% legal.

    If you're involved in a deal that side of course you're going to take professional tax advice. Its up to the legislators to make sure that there are no loopholes.

    Maybe our government weren't too busy spending €15,000 in the Dail bar whilst debating legislation things like this wouldn't happen as much.


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