The Ricin Epiphany

Myrddin

Ok, can anyone clarify this for me, I'm a little confused My first time reading this forum so it may have been discussed before, but I have to avoid spoilers so apologies!

1) Walter makes Ricin to get rid of Tuco, Gus' etc
2) Jesse, later on, is in possession of the ricin hidden in a cigarette.
3) Goodmans security guy, steals the ricin from Jesse without his knowledge.
4) Next thing Jesse hears, Broc has been poisoned. Jesse thinks he is responsible because he lost the ricin for Broc to find.
5) This has the effect of making Jesse think Gus' had a part in it.
6) The doctors then say it wasn't ricin poisoning, but that Broc was poisoned instead by Lilly of the Valley.
7) Walt has such a planet, & as such poisoned the child to turn Jesse against Gus'
8) Walt recovers the ricin from Goodman, & swaps it for a false canister, which he sets up so they 'find' it in Jesse's house, meaning to Jesse, that Gus must have poisoned Broc.
9) Walt keeps the real ricin container hidden behind his wall socket.
10) While waiting for his new identity guy to show up, Jesse somehow realises what had happened, how the ricin was stolen from him by Goodman.

What was the catalyst for Jesse suddenly figuring it all out, & how did he figure it all out?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he had a bag of weed in his pocket when he was leaving sauls office, while getting a cigarette out of his pack while waiting for new-identity-man he couldn't find the weed. he patted himself down and realised huell had pickpocketed it and as he had previously assumed that huell had done the same with the ricin he put 2+2 together and lost his **** all over sauls face

sbsquarepants

Saul pulled the same stunt again to take the weed jessie had stashed in the cigarettes, when he copped the weed was missing he put two and two together - eh, somehow!

Ilik Urgee

How did Walt recover the ricin back from Goodman/Huell? Must've missed that.

Myrddin

Ah, I hadn't realised the

bag of weed had been taken on him

. I see now, cheers folks

Myrddin

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

How did Walt recover the ricin back from Goodman/Huell? Must've missed that.

Goodman gave it back to Walt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/breaking-bad-ricin-mashup_n_3819030.html

briany

The thing is that he still has absolutely no proof that Walt poisoned Brock. He only has a strong suspicion based on the long history of manipulation by Walt. Another perfect reason for Walt to have the ricin taken off Jesse was simply that Walt was afraid it would be used against him by either Gus or Jesse acting under Gus's influence.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

jos28

I think I have my head around it all now apart from one thing. Why did Saul's henchman take Jesse's marijuana ?

briany

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How did Saul know about the plot to poison Brock? Did he have to tell Walt where Brock went to school or something? Unless he had some crucial role in co-ordianating the move I think Walt would have kept what he did quiet because he knows it's not something to be proud, as evil as he might be. The same way Todd knows shooting that boy was not something to be proud of, as evil as he is.

.red.

jos28 wrote: »

I think I have my head around it all now apart from one thing. Why did Saul's henchman take Jesse's marijuana ?

If he was stoned the guy with the new identity for him wouldnt have helped

briany

jos28 wrote: »

I think I have my head around it all now apart from one thing. Why did Saul's henchman take Jesse's marijuana ?

'Cause Saul's guy doesn't pick up the high.

A Primal Nut

briany wrote: »

How did Saul know about the plot to poison Brock? Did he have to tell Walt where Brock went to school or something? Unless he had some crucial role in co-ordianating the move I think Walt would have kept what he did quiet because he knows it's not something to be proud, as evil as he might be. The same way Todd knows shooting that boy was not something to be proud of, as evil as he is.

Walt needed Huell to take the ricin. Walt needed Saul to know in order to tell Huell. Walt had fallen out with Jesse at that point so he couldn't have stole the ricin himself.

A lot of people (including me) think it was Saul who actually poisoned Brock as he was shown having regular contact with Brock, which Walt didn't have; something else Walt needed Saul for.

Saul only cares about his own skin and he needed Gus gone as much as Walt did at that point. He wouldn't have batted an eyelid about poisoning Brock, especially as he knew Brock wouldn't die (something a lot of people miss when they talk about how evil it was).

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

jos28

.red. wrote: »

If he was stoned the guy with the new identity for him wouldnt have helped

briany wrote: »

'Cause Saul's guy doesn't pick up the high.

Cheers !

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

We do get a scene between Saul and Walt, where Saul says something like "If I had known the stuff might have killed the kid, I never would have helped you." Not sure what episode.

banquo

Really? I missed that bit then!

/searches

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Yeah, I definitely remember it. I've spent all of last week watching BB again from start to current episode, so it's hard to pinpoint a particular moment from the flow of episodes. There is definitely a scene between them relating to the poisoning though.

Myrddin

Is it the scene where Walt gets the Ricin back from Goodman? If so, I think it's partly shown in this 'ricin moments' video - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3819030.html

Grimebox

This has been explained to me many times but I still don't think it adds up.

Jesse found the ricin in the roomba. He's mind is at rest.

He can't find his weed and comes to the conclusion that Huell stole the weed. Fair enough.

Now the leap to Huell stealing the ricin cigarette is a stretch for me. He already found it in his house. He misplaced it and it turned up in the roomba. Jesse was even distraught that he could be so careless; that anyone could have been killed by it.

This is what Jesse believed up till now and somehow he remembers Huell patting him down once, so Huell must have stole it. Nope sorry doesn't work for me

UpTheSlashers

Grimebox wrote: »

This has been explained to me many times but I still don't think it adds up.

Jesse found the ricin in the roomba. He's mind is at rest.

He can't find his weed and comes to the conclusion that Huell stole the weed. Fair enough.

Now the leap to Huell stealing the ricin cigarette is a stretch for me. He already found it in his house. He misplaced it and it turned up in the roomba. Jesse was even distraught that he could be so careless; that anyone could have been killed by it.

This is what Jesse believed up till now and somehow he remembers Huell patting him down once, so Huell must have stole it. Nope sorry doesn't work for me

Walt/Huell/Somebody else put it in the roomba so Jesse would be satisfied that nobody had ingested it?

April O Neill

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Walt/Huell/Somebody else put it in the roomba so Jesse would be satisfied that nobody had ingested it?

Yeah, WE know that, but Jesse doesn't.

Dman001

Grimebox wrote: »

This has been explained to me many times but I still don't think it adds up.

Jesse found the ricin in the roomba. He's mind is at rest.

He can't find his weed and comes to the conclusion that Huell stole the weed. Fair enough.

Now the leap to Huell stealing the ricin cigarette is a stretch for me. He already found it in his house. He misplaced it and it turned up in the roomba. Jesse was even distraught that he could be so careless; that anyone could have been killed by it.

This is what Jesse believed up till now and somehow he remembers Huell patting him down once, so Huell must have stole it. Nope sorry doesn't work for me

See, for me, the definitive moment when Jesse questions Walt's motives and honesty, is when they discuss the aftermath of the shooting of the kid on the bike. I think it was in the episode "Buyout", Jesse and Walt are cooking in a house, and while taking a break they watch the news reporting the missing kid. Jesse is torn up by the event, and Walt tells him he is the same, stating he can't sleep at night and thinks about it every night since it happened. Walt then tells Jesse to go home and he will finish the batch. Just as Jesse leaves, he notices Walt whistling to himself while cooking - showing no remorse or in anyway upset as to what happened, even being relatively chirpy. For me, this is the turning point. He realised Walt was full of BS about being upset about the kid, and possibly wonders what else Walt had being blatantly two-faced about - the poisoning of Broc included.

When Jesse is waiting for the "New Identity Man", he frantically searches himself for the dope. He comes across his box of cigarettes (which he had put the Ricin in when Huel had swiped it), staring at it for a few seconds, putting two and two together. I honestly don't think it's a huge stretch that Jesse linked the two so quick. Bare in mind, he had a gun to Walt's head at one point when he initially thought Walt had poisoned Broc. That doubt in Walt never fully left his mind.

batistuta9

Grimebox wrote: »

This has been explained to me many times but I still don't think it adds up.

Jesse found the ricin in the roomba. He's mind is at rest.

He can't find his weed and comes to the conclusion that Huell stole the weed. Fair enough.

Now the leap to Huell stealing the ricin cigarette is a stretch for me. He already found it in his house. He misplaced it and it turned up in the roomba. Jesse was even distraught that he could be so careless; that anyone could have been killed by it.

This is what Jesse believed up till now and somehow he remembers Huell patting him down once, so Huell must have stole it. Nope sorry doesn't work for me

when jesse finds out that the ricin is missing he goes to walt & blames him for it
walt says maybe brock took the cigarette from jesses' pocket, jesse says this couldn't have happened because he had the cigarette this morning & put it in a new pack and he didn't see brock since the night before - he knew brock didn't take it off him
walt then says when could he have taken it if he had it this morning, jesse say he had saul do it when he was called to his office & patted down by huell
walt then manages to talk jesse out of killing him by mentioning who do you know who's ok using children & that he need jesses' approval to kill walt, now he has it & even jesse doing it

walt goes to jesses' to help look for the cigarette, they look in the roomba & find it (planted there by walt)
jesses' upset for nearly killing walt over it, walt reassures him everything was for the best & they start working again

jesse has finally copped on that walt has been playing him all along (in the desert) and agrees to 'disappear'
after he's dropped off & realises the weed is missing - obviously stole by huell - he knew he was right in the first place suspecting walt/huell for taking the cigarette. then saul even admits it to him

i don't think it a leap at all considering jesse has finally figured out walt has been using him & huell stealing the weed triggered it with him - it was a combination of both but if the weed didn't go missing he would've left or if he hadn't figured out walt was using him all the time he would've left
people seem to think that jesse is incapable of thought because of his mental state, if anything i'd say all that is going through his mind is everything that has happened since he met mr.white again