help bad owner trying to get dog back

malgbi

On Tuesday, week ago near my partner’s garage was found 8month old puppy. Dog was without a leash and had only a collar with contact details.
Company from next door tried to contact the owner plenty of times during the day (no answer). I did call the same day and left voice mail message providing my phone number and location where dog was found and where it could be collected from. No interest from owner’s side, no calls back.
We took the pup do the vet next day to check his health condition and check if he has a chip.
Vet advised that there is no chip and advised that the dog is underweight but found good people that will look after him well.
Now, we have him for a week, during all that time there was no interest from his owner.
However we have noticed that apart from the fact that dog was underweight (feeling every single bone), he is afraid of squeaking toys, had to be beaten and abused. This is what you can notice from his reactions on daily basis with contact with other people or even during play time.

We didn’t put him on dog pound found dog list as we were not aware of that step. We did ask our vet to put dog’s photo on their web profile with a small description (but she didn't and now we know why).

Yesterday we were informed by vet that the owner rang them asking if they know anyone who might have the dog, trying to scare the clinic with GARDA.
At the same time we found out that the dog was already running away from his owner number of times, and every time he did not have an interest in getting him back asap.
We did speak to GARDA that advised that they will not get involved in that situation and to contact ISPCA in order to record the dog’s bad history for future purpose.
Vet believes that now Guiness found a good home to live in.

I do know that there is a dogs act 1986 telling to give the dog back to the owner, however we do not want to give him back to someone who will again abuse him, from who the dog will run away again.

Please, do you know what we can do to keep the dog? He is so happy now, took him few days to trust us and still is very carefull.

We got him microchipped yday and registered on our name.

Viper_JB

If the owner doesn't know specifically who you are I would just keep him, he's going to do so much better in your hands op, good job for taking him in, hopefully you won't run into the old owner .

Kristopherus

You should also ask the vet to contact the the ISPCA and inform them that the dog has been badly treated. They could then tell the "owner" that they had reported him to ISPCA. That might soften his cough.

malgbi

it wouldn't be so difficult if he wouldnt live 20 mins walk from us (different estate in my town). I wrote to DSPCA and they told me that if I will not register that dog as found, I will get in big trouble from law point of vie as this dog won't be mine for a year and one day. It looks all more complicated. We are in love with him, he is great with our 2 year old retriever. It would be heartbreaking seeing him going back to home where he is not wanted.

thegreatiam

Viper_JB wrote: »

If the owner doesn't know specifically who you are I would just keep him, he's going to do so much better in your hands op, good job for taking him in, hopefully you won't run into the old owner .

owner has her name and phone number from the voicemail.
Change your number, keep the dog. everyone has a better life.

malgbi

thanks Krostopherus I wroet to ISPCA as well, but will mention that to the vet.

Iano_128

Slightly off topic here but it really does take some horrible bàstard to beat a dog!! I feel absolutely terrible if i step on a dogs tail by accident or anything like that. How anyone has that sort of disgusting behaviour in them is beyond me...

/Rant.

malgbi

hi thegreatiam, he never rang me so I wonder if he ever listened to that voice message.

thegreatiam

malgbi wrote: »

hi thegreatiam, he never rang me so I wonder if he ever listened to that voice message.

probably correct, but from your assumptions he may not be a pleasant person. if you can, change the number. Did you give an address?

From what you say there is a lot of assumption that the owners are abusing the dog, do you know this for a fact? It could be that the dog was abused before they got him.

are they known to the vet as being abusive?

There could be multiple reasons that the dog has ran away, and that they didn't look for him, you should be sure what they are before you take ownership of the animal.

Once you get proof, go through the correct channels and have the dog taken from them into your care.

malgbi

The fact that the vet did not want to post dog's picture on the FB profile to look for that owner. Also the nurse from that clinic found that dog before and rang the owner, however he told her to keep the dog for few days as he didn't have time to collect him. Pup is pissing himself when he see's stranger (I would say that he is excited and happy but it is not) he then lies down on the floor and doesn't move. Runs away when you are spanking other dog (you know as a cuddle). I don't need more proofs that he was badly treated.
He was told only where the dog was found, I did not provide my home address. If the vet doesn's want to provide the owner my phone no that means to me that she must know dog's history.

thegreatiam

malgbi wrote: »

The fact that the vet did not want to post dog's picture on the FB profile to look for that owner. Also the nurse from that clinic found that dog before and rang the owner, however he told her to keep the dog for few days as he didn't have time to collect him. Pup is pissing himself when he see's stranger (I would say that he is excited and happy but it is not) he then lies down on the floor and doesn't move. Runs away when you are spanking other dog (you know as a cuddle). I don't need more proofs that he was badly treated.
He was told only where the dog was found, I did not provide my home address. If the vet doesn's want to provide the owner my phone no that means to me that she must know dog's history.

Im all for you keeping the dog, you dont need to justify it to me.

Im just pointing out that without proof its all just guesswork, you think the dog is abused, but you do not know.

Like I said there could be a million reasons, and explanations why they didnt come collect it, why the vet wont give the contact number, and why the dog is scared of people.
Just get proof.

You said it your self, maybe they didnt hear your voicemail, that's why they didnt come to get the dog.

Im not defending them, I think the dog is better off with you as you obviously care for it.
Just be sure that it is them that are abusing the dog and you are not making a decision based on hearsay.

Tranceypoo

I don't know the ins and outs of the laws regarding this sort of situation (and to be honest I don't think many guards would know either) but one thing I would do is go and buy a dog licence for him, registered to you, if this owner is the sort of person you say he is I doubt he would have a licence and by law you have to have one.

If what you suspect is true I really hope you manage to keep this pup. Good luck with it all.

anniehoo

Ok, legally you have no ownership rights to this dog for a year and a day as mentioned above. By Law, if this dog goes to the pound it has 5 days to be reclaimed, if not, then it can be rehomed and the owner has no legal rights from then on. Some pounds will allow the 5 days to be done in your own home. It depends.

I know you're trying to do the right thing OP, but if the owner can prove this dog is his unless it goes through the legal pound system, you have no claim to him for 366 days. Are you willing to lay low with him until then (or chance the 5 day Pound stray rule)?

wrote:

We didn’t put him on dog pound found dog list as we were not aware of that step.

It's the first place everyone rings if they lose/find a dog.

wrote:

Yesterday we were informed by vet that the owner rang them asking if they know anyone who might have the dog, trying to scare the clinic with GARDA.

What did the vet tell the owner? Did they deny any knowledge of having the dog there or told them they did examine him but refused to give anymore info?

wrote:

We got him microchipped yday and registered on our name.

He still will not legally be yours though even after doing this.

DBB

Sorry OP, whilst I really do appreciate that you have the very best intentions at heart, you are breaking the law. You have essentially stolen somebody else's property, and in the absence of any hard evidence against the owners, in the eyes of the law, you are the one in the wrong here.
Not only did you not go through the correct channels as required by law, you have now involved the vets and the microchip company in your illegal act.
And then, you post about it on one of the country's busiest animal forums? Do you not think you're opening a huge can of worms for yourself?
If I was going to do what you're doing, I certainly would not be advertising the fact, I would involve nobody else other than alerting the pound. The owners seem to be actively looking for their pup now, and although you mean well, they could bring the guards to your door with them when they inevitably find out where their pup is.
Either bring the pup to the pound and let it serve its 5 days, with the appeal to the wardens that you will adopt the pup if/when it completes the 5 days, or go to the owners and try to do a deal with them that you'll keep the pup. Or, as has been suggested, see if the ISPCA will attempt to bring the legal owners to their senses with the cruelty issue (which they'll need to satisfy themselves is an issue) in the hope that the legal owner will surrender the dog to them.
Just to clarify, it is very rare for a pound to allow a person to hold a dog for the 5 days on their behalf. I've taken a hundred or more dogs out of pounds and this happened once, with a dog that was very ill. If you inform the pound or guards that you have the dog, but are not prepared to impound it, the 366 day rule still applies.

Edited to add: the 366 day rule does NOT apply if the proper authorities were not notified at the start. So, stealing a dog and hiding him for 366 days does not make the dog yours. If the authorities are not informed, the dog will always remain stolen property, and the legal owners can claim him back any time they want to, even if that's years from now.

malgbi

I was told that the dog's owner was very rude over the phone and that the nurse was reluctant to provide any info. They said that they will not provide him any contact details.
I would know what to do if I would have an experience of loosing my other dog, but she never runs away.You see, we did try to contact the owner directly and there was no reply from him and no answer. Even vet did not mention dog pound institution and for sure she knows that we should register him as missing.

FoxyVixen

You mention it's a pup and regard its fear of strangers as it being abused? Jumping to conclusions there, pups go through a stage of development/socialisation where EVERYTHING in th world is suddenly something to be afraid of. I had a hard time with my dog during this transition, leaves rolling across the road had her jumping on top of me or in the ditch. She also peed out of excitement every morning during the "meet and greet". To some her behaviour appeared submissive, it was more in fact some members of the family greeting her incorrectly. How old is the puppy?

Who cares if someone was rude across the phone? I might be too if a receptionist/vet nurse wouldn't give information on my lost dog.

Perhaps the number you called was an old number and they never received your messages?

Fact is what you're doing is illegal, plenty of posters have guided you in what you should do from a legal aspect. The owner has every right to get their dog back regardless of how bad an owner you consider them.

malgbi

the puppy is 8 - 9 months old. The number I called his wife's number.
There is no need to keep pointing that I am doing something illegaly, I have done this post to find out what I can do and to get an advice, not to be criticized. I am trying to do the right thing. Few people gave me advices and I am greatful for that. I am not Irish so I am still learning your law and dont know procedures in this country that should be followed. And I can do that by asking you guys.

DBB

So, are you happy now then that you know what you're legally required to do, based on what you've read here?

Any criticism you're getting, you have to admit, is justified. You have broken the law. You have also jumped to a whole lot of conclusions which may be right. But they may be wrong too.
It's clear you're trying to do the right thing by the dog, but the fact that these owners are actively looking for their dog puts you in a very precarious position, as you haven't a leg to stand on as you have not followed the correct procedure, nor indeed protected yourself by not posting on a busy internet forum what you've done. The dog belongs to the original owners, not you.
As for the vets, they're opening a can of worms for themselves too, the owner would now be perfectly justified to get the guards to question the vets, because they are withholding information about what they know to be stolen property. It might not come to it mind you, but it is a potential consequence.

FoxyVixen

I'm not criticising you and don't know why you picked it up that way? I was merely pointing out fact.

Both mods of the forum have given you adequate advice, I won't add to it other than giving you a link to laws regarding dogs in Ireland.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/.

kylith

The only thing you can do, OP, is to offer to buy the dog from its owners. If they really don't care about the dog €50 might be enough to convince them to leave it with you.

percy212

kylith wrote: »

The only thing you can do, OP, is to offer to buy the dog from its owners. If they really don't care about the dog €50 might be enough to convince them to leave it with you.

I would try this approach but from a new phone number. Get a free chip from some network and use it to make contact via text. If he doesn't reply or doesn't agree, just keep the dog. Its not chipped so he can't prove its his. It just looks like his.....Get it chipped somewhere else under your name. Get a license. Legal schmegal. The dog needs a new home.

meoklmrk91

My dog is terrified of sweeping brushes, if you saw him you would think I had beaten him with one, I did not when he was a pup he went over sniffing around one and it fell on him now anytime I pick up a sweeping brush he makes himself small and looks at me as if I'm going to kill him.

I understand that you think that this pup has been abused but you can't just take someone else's dog, the only way I would do what you are doing is if I had definitive proof, as in I saw it with my own eyes, the dog had scars, wounds or bruises indicating abuse. I understand that you are only trying to protect the dog but the truth is you don't know for sure that the dog is being abused, you suspect it.

If you want to keep him I would try resolving this quickly, No amount of microchipping or getting a license is going to make the dog yours. I would as above offer him a few bob for the dog and see if he bites. If he doesn't then I think you are just going to have to give the dog back.

muddypaws

How did the owners know to ring the vet? I find that very odd.

OK, edited as I see the OP has closed their account. Steal a dog, ask for advice, get told something you don't want to hear and spit your dummy, sounds about right.

When my osky ran off I rang the local vet too, as well as everywhere else
Seems reasonable enough
Turned out someone had brought him to a vet, to have the chip read

muddypaws

bluewolf wrote: »

When my osky ran off I rang the local vet too, as well as everywhere else
Seems reasonable enough
Turned out someone had brought him to a vet, to have the chip read

Sounds reasonable if someone is looking for a lost dog, the OP paints a picture of owners who don't give a damn. Yet knew that the number they phoned was the owner's wife's number? A lot more to this story than has been posted I think.

anniehoo

OP has closed their account so that's the end of that.

Thread closed.