Offered a certain salary - then told I'm being put on minimum wage!!!

Boofle

I started a new job 2 weeks ago. When I was offered the job I was told the starting salary was 21,000 Euro. I have been waiting for my contract; last Thursday my manager told me it had been drawn up and I could sign it shortly.

Earlier this afternoon one of the owners of the company called me into her office and informed me that they cannot pay me 21,000 per year and I am being put on minimum wage - 8.65 an hour. I am completely shocked and baffled.

My manager (The head of Finance) then called me into his office later on in the afternoon and he was all red and flustered and very angry. He said he didn't want to draw me into a spat but that he had had words with the company owner earlier about what she about to do (inform me of the 8.65 an hour wage) and that he felt bad as he feels he has offered me the job on false pretences. Which, in essence, is what has transpired. I feel it was all done very covertly - as I have signed no contract so I felt I didn't have a leg to stand on.

Anyone have any thoughts?!

keano2012

been honest i would get out while you can. If they are acting like this at the start of the relationship...who knows whats in store for you.

_Kaiser_

+1 to Keano's advice..

It would also not inspire me that the Head of Finance can't manage a simple hiring on (let's face it) not a massive wage without a war of words with the owner?

Get out now and when the next job offer comes, get the contract before you start with them.

Boofle

Thanks for the replies guys - my sentiments exactly. I will have to stay there while I search for another job but I will have to get out of the place ASAP

road_high

Boofle wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys - my sentiments exactly. I will have to stay there while I search for another job but I will have to get out of the place ASAP

Can I ask what the job is? Like is it a graduate professional type or more manual? 22k Is not mega money, but there's quite a drop to 8.65 per hour...got many other potential jobs in the offing before you took this one?

Boofle

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

+1 to Keano's advice..

It would also not inspire me that the Head of Finance can't manage a simple hiring on (let's face it) not a massive wage without a war of words with the owner?

Get out now and when the next job offer comes, get the contract before you start with them.

Ha ha I thought the 21,000 wage was poor enough, never mind minimum wage! I would earn more per hour on the starting wage in Penneys.........

I am fed up with how employers feel they can treat their employees - I mean I know we are in the midst of a recession blah blah blah but honestly some of them are taking the Michael!!

_Kaiser_

Boofle wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys - my sentiments exactly. I will have to stay there while I search for another job but I will have to get out of the place ASAP

Actually that's where I'd be torn..

If you applied for and accepted the job based on x wage, I'd be very hesitant myself to give them my services for a lot less now.

But depending on your circumstances, quitting outright may not be possible. I don't think I'd be signing a contract though under those terms.. messy one really.

Boofle

road_high wrote: »

Can I ask what the job is? Like is it a graduate professional type or more manual? 22k Is not mega money, but there's quite a drop to 8.65 per hour...got many other potential jobs in the offing before you took this one?

Sale Administrator/Receptionist. I am a qualified legal secretary but cannot find work in that field in Galway. Realistically I will have to move to find a more favourable role and salary. Crazy situation I have got myself into.......I earned more per hour in Dunnes Stores while I was in uni :eek:

Can you insist on getting the originally agreed pay for the 2 weeks and look for another job asap
Nevermind this good cop bad cop sh!te to lure you in - that's what it sounds like :mad:

Boofle

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Actually that's where I'd be torn..

If you applied for and accepted the job based on x wage, I'd be very hesitant myself to give them my services for a lot less now.

But depending on your circumstances, quitting outright may not be possible. I don't think I'd be signing a contract though under those terms.. messy one really.

Yes, the few people I spoke to about this have said don't even bother going back in tomorrow morning!!! But I don't think I could do that - I will try get something else asap but definitely not signing a contract agreeing to work for minimum wage. I would be lucky to come out with 250 a week....

road_high

bluewolf wrote: »

Can you insist on getting the originally agreed pay for the 2 weeks and look for another job asap
Nevermind this good cop bad cop sh!te to lure you in - that's what it sounds like :mad:

Totally agree..unprofessional non sense and not your fault they can't communicate with each other.

Boofle

bluewolf wrote: »

Can you insist on getting the originally agreed pay for the 2 weeks and look for another job asap
Nevermind this good cop bad cop sh!te to lure you in - that's what it sounds like :mad:

Yes... I totally agree- the 21,000 was the carrot in front of the donkey - me being the idiot donkey!!

It was just to lure me in.

_Kaiser_

Boofle wrote: »

Yes... I totally - the 21,000 was the carrot in front of the donkey - me being the idiot donkey!!

It was just to lure me in.

Not your fault they seem so unprofessional and incompetent. You accepted the job in good faith.. they're the ones who've messed that up

Boofle

Boofle wrote: »

Yes... I totally - the 21,000 was the carrot in front of the donkey - me being the idiot donkey!!

It was just to lure me in.

You're not an idiot at all, don't worry

Boofle

bluewolf wrote: »

You're not an idiot at all, don't worry

thanks

Boofle

In hindsight, I should have said "Can I expect my contract in the post?" before I even commenced work - as I have done with previous roles. . . I was just so happy to have been offered a job. As they are so scarce.

gabbytheking

If you are leaving make sure to get the original salary paid up to date and tell them that you are making a complaint to NERA with regard to breach of an oral contract of employment and constructive dismissal. See extract: "3.1 CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL
An employee who resigns will be deemed to have been constructively dismissed in one
of two circumstances:
– as a result of a breach of contract of the employer, eg failure to pay wages
or a reduction in wages;"

See if their bark is as good as their bite! This is in my eyes unfair dismissal and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.

2 Links
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

http://imca.ie/assets/files/Management%20Themes/Employment%20Law%20issues%20in%20Leading%20Change.pdf

tatli_lokma

Ok, don't shoot me, but can I just suggest that you go onto one of the tax calculator websites. In my experience, the difference in take home pay for €8.65 p/hr and €10.20 p/hr can sometimes be very little. Especially at this time in the year when you would have a lot of tax credits built up if you haven't been working for the previous few months. Based on the lower salary you might be eligible for benefits such as a medical card or family income support.

Bearing this in mind you might find that it's not so bleak to be on the lower salary. Now, don't get me wrong, what they did is out of order and I think you should look elsewhere. But in the meantime you might find some consolation in knowing that you are not that much worse of financially

Another option you could look into could be to work less hours but on the higher rate. That way it costs the employer the same money, but you get a shorter work week (which would leave you extra time for job seeking elsewhere).

gabbytheking

gabbytheking wrote: »

If you are leaving make sure to get the original salary paid up to date and tell them that you are making a complaint to NERA with regard to breach of an oral contract of employment and constructive dismissal. See extract: "3.1 CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL
An employee who resigns will be deemed to have been constructively dismissed in one
of two circumstances:
– as a result of a breach of contract of the employer, eg failure to pay wages
or a reduction in wages;"

See if their bark is as good as their bite! This is in my eyes unfair dismissal and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.

2 Links
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

http://imca.ie/assets/files/Management%20Themes/Employment%20Law%20issues%20in%20Leading%20Change.pdf

If you can get both the first 2 weeks pay and then the contract to "read over" you can in effect prove that they breached their contract! By showing that this was the wage that the paid and this was the wage that they then put in writing.

road_high

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Ok, don't shoot me, but can I just suggest that you go onto one of the tax calculator websites. In my experience, the difference in take home pay for €8.65 p/hr and €10.20 p/hr can sometimes be very little. Especially at this time in the year when you would have a lot of tax credits built up if you haven't been working for the previous few months. Based on the lower salary you might be eligible for benefits such as a medical card or family income support.

Bearing this in mind you might find that it's not so bleak to be on the lower salary. Now, don't get me wrong, what they did is out of order and I think you should look elsewhere. But in the meantime you might find some consolation in knowing that you are not that much worse of financially

Another option you could look into could be to work less hours but on the higher rate. That way it costs the employer the same money, but you get a shorter work week (which would leave you extra time for job seeking elsewhere).

Really good advice here op. plus the old adage of easier get a job when you have one is so bet true plus the experience you may gain. So perhaps hold fire for now.

hfallada

I just got a job in retail and was told in the interview by the manager you will be in minimum wage and we will increase it in the future. The manager was open about the pay. If a manager tells you lies to get you to take the job and changes his word. I would leave ASAP

Boofle

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Ok, don't shoot me, but can I just suggest that you go onto one of the tax calculator websites. In my experience, the difference in take home pay for €8.65 p/hr and €10.20 p/hr can sometimes be very little. Especially at this time in the year when you would have a lot of tax credits built up if you haven't been working for the previous few months. Based on the lower salary you might be eligible for benefits such as a medical card or family income support.

Bearing this in mind you might find that it's not so bleak to be on the lower salary. Now, don't get me wrong, what they did is out of order and I think you should look elsewhere. But in the meantime you might find some consolation in knowing that you are not that much worse of financially

Another option you could look into could be to work less hours but on the higher rate. That way it costs the employer the same money, but you get a shorter work week (which would leave you extra time for job seeking elsewhere).

I work 35 hours per week and on the last pay slip I received the gross pay was 403.85. If I work 35 hours at 8.65 an hour that's only 302.75.....I reckon that is quite a significant drop in pay, overall , both gross and net.

Boofle

I think I will definitely try and stick at the job until something better comes along - because it really is easier to find a job when you're in a job!

gabbytheking

Boofle wrote: »

I work 35 hours per week and on the last pay slip I received the gross pay was 403.85. If I work 35 hours at 8.65 an hour that's only 302.75.....I reckon that is quite a significant drop in pay, overall , both gross and net.

You have the payslip showing your gross pay of 21k now get a copy of the contract and seek legal advice or even just give a solicitor a general phone call and see if anybody thinks you have a case. Teach these chancers a lesson they won't soon forget. The reason tax doesn't matter is you obviously have a full years tax credits and only 4 months to use them up.

tatli_lokma

Boofle wrote: »

I work 35 hours per week and on the last pay slip I received the gross pay was 403.85. If I work 35 hours at 8.65 an hour that's only 302.75.....I reckon that is quite a significant drop in pay, overall , both gross and net.

Yes but you don't have tax credits accumulated. Someone starting work in September who hasn't worked so far this year or who only worked part of it would have tax credits. Plus depending on if you were unemployed previously you may qualify for the job assist from revenue. Those factors added to possible benefits you could claim mean that for some people less hours/lower salary actually works out very similar in take home pay. In the past I've had staff turn down extra hours or pay increases because they would end up worse off.

Boofle

gabbytheking wrote: »

You have the payslip showing your gross pay of 21k now get a copy of the contract and seek legal advice or even just give a solicitor a general phone call and see if anybody thinks you have a case. Teach these chancers a lesson they won't soon forget. The reason tax doesn't matter is you obviously have a full years tax credits and only 4 months to use them up.

Unfortunately I never got to sign the contract they kept promising me.... I guess all I can do now is resolve to move on and get another job as soon as I can and get the heck out of the place!

gabbytheking

Boofle wrote: »

Unfortunately I never got to sign the contract they kept promising me.... I guess all I can do now is resolve to move on and get another job as soon as I can and get the heck out of the place!

Well I think the payslip should be substantial evidence of the original terms/oral contract. The contract I refereed to is the new minimum wage contract to show the sudden shift in terms/pay and show the sudden change of terms between the oral contract and the written contract.

I can completely understand that you may not want to go down that route as it could rune your reputation within the area and most likely the compensation would be very little. On the other hand if you could get a solicitors letter referring to unfair dismissal and constructive dismissal they may very well rethink their actions.

imitation

Sounds like small companyitis to me, manager oks something, thinks about it and renages. Evaluate your position, can you get another job that actually pays 21k or was it a lucky bonus ? Do you need the money badly or can you afford to wait ? If you sign the contract, its generally worth staying for 6 months to a year, quitting after a month or two looks dodgy, although its less applicable to some types of jobs. Either way keep it in mind if they seem like arseholes, you'll be in a worse position if you jack it in shortly after signing.

donegal11

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Yes but you don't have tax credits accumulated. Someone starting work in September who hasn't worked so far this year or who only worked part of it would have tax credits. Plus depending on if you were unemployed previously you may qualify for the job assist from revenue. Those factors added to possible benefits you could claim mean that for some people less hours/lower salary actually works out very similar in take home pay. In the past I've had staff turn down extra hours or pay increases because they would end up worse off.

With tax credits the situation is worse, any extra money would be in your hand. You will never be in be in a worse positions financial by taking more hour/ better pay(no dole).

Boofle

imitation wrote: »

Sounds like small companyitis to me, manager oks something, thinks about it and renages. Evaluate your position, can you get another job that actually pays 21k or was it a lucky bonus ? Do you need the money badly or can you afford to wait ? If you sign the contract, its generally worth staying for 6 months to a year, quitting after a month or two looks dodgy, although its less applicable to some types of jobs. Either way keep it in mind if they seem like arseholes, you'll be in a worse position if you jack it in shortly after signing.

I would be hopeful that I could secure something definitely in the region of the original agreed salary of 21,000. My last full time job was 24,000, the one before that was 22,500. But obviously things have changed a lot on the job market in recent times.

If I refuse to sign the contract which is going to bind me to earning 8.65 an hour do you reckon they would let me go?

Boofle

gabbytheking wrote: »

Well I think the payslip should be substantial evidence of the original terms/oral contract. The contract I refereed to is the new minimum wage contract to show the sudden shift in terms/pay and show the sudden change of terms between the oral contract and the written contract.

I can completely understand that you may not want to go down that route as it could rune your reputation within the area and most likely the compensation would be very little. On the other hand if you could get a solicitors letter referring to unfair dismissal and constructive dismissal they may very well rethink their actions.

Well I could always ring up my previous employer - a solicitor

tatli_lokma

donegal11 wrote: »

With tax credits the situation is worse, any extra money would be in your hand. You will never be in be in a worse positions financial by taking more hour/ better pay(no dole).

I think you'll find you're wrong there. How can having extra money in your hand be worse? I have worked payroll in several companies, small (tiny) to large. I have seen where people's take home pay has been negatively affected by increased hours or hourly rate. It happened to me personally in a previous job where I was eligible for a medical card and class A0 PRSI on my starting salary. The medical card alone was worth a lot to me as I have an ongoing illness. When my 1st year was completed I received a €2k pay rise. I lost my medical card, and therefore lost my A0 PRSI class. The €2k made me worse off by €50 per month take home, not to mention additional medical costs as I usually have to attend to doctor every 4-6 weeks.

allibastor

Boofle wrote: »

I started a new job 2 weeks ago. When I was offered the job I was told the starting salary was 21,000 Euro. I have been waiting for my contract; last Thursday my manager told me it had been drawn up and I could sign it shortly.

Earlier this afternoon one of the owners of the company called me into her office and informed me that they cannot pay me 21,000 per year and I am being put on minimum wage - 8.65 an hour. I am completely shocked and baffled.

My manager (The head of Finance) then called me into his office later on in the afternoon and he was all red and flustered and very angry. He said he didn't want to draw me into a spat but that he had had words with the company owner earlier about what she about to do (inform me of the 8.65 an hour wage) and that he felt bad as he feels he has offered me the job on false pretences. Which, in essence, is what has transpired. I feel it was all done very covertly - as I have signed no contract so I felt I didn't have a leg to stand on.

Anyone have any thoughts?!

I would simply state to the finance manager, and the head of the company, that you had an agreement for your original salary and that in light of the sudden and unexpected change in the terms and conditions of the implied contract you feel that you will now not be able to take the role.

I also dont think they can advertise a role with a certain salary and then drop it dramatically.

Sunny Dayz

I worked out that if you are on €8.65 ph and work say 40 hour week, that's 17,992 annual salary, round to say €18K, €3k less than what you were initially offered. Could you not negotiate with them to meet you half way, say €19.5K? Or agree with them a salary review in say 3 months depending on your preformance?

ABajaninCork

It's better you found out early what a bunch of unprofessional shysters you're working for now, rather than later. If they did go ahead and pay you the 21k, what's the betting they would soon look for an excuse to cut the money? They sound like the sort of people who would pay you less than Minimum Wage if they could get away with it...

Boofle

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I worked out that if you are on €8.65 ph and work say 40 hour week, that's 17,992 annual salary, round to say €18K, €3k less than what you were initially offered. Could you not negotiate with them to meet you half way, say €19.5K? Or agree with them a salary review in say 3 months depending on your preformance?

I only work a 35 hour week.

Found out this morning that the company is on the verge of going under and that they are seeking an investor...

I had an inkling that things weren't right with the sheer abundance of angry people calling from companies looking for accounts payable due to non-payment of outstanding invoices dating back to last April/May etc.

Talk about a bad decision to take the job. . . . :cool:

tatli_lokma

Sorry to hear OP - but perhaps worth sticking it out til you find something else. At least the company going under is a valid reason to give to a prospective employer for leaving so soon into a contract. The writing is on the wall a bit when the finance 'manager' doesn't know how much money is available in the budget for a salary. Possibly why the company is in trouble.

The only risk with staying put is that you might find you have problems getting paid on time. Only you can decide if its worth the risk. 35 hrs at €8.65 is still better than the dole and as mentioned already it is often much easier to find a job when in a job. And the fact that the finance manager is feeling sheepish about how you were treated could work in your favour when a reference is needed.

Boofle

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Sorry to hear OP - but perhaps worth sticking it out til you find something else. At least the company going under is a valid reason to give to a prospective employer for leaving so soon into a contract. The writing is on the wall a bit when the finance 'manager' doesn't know how much money is available in the budget for a salary. Possibly why the company is in trouble.

The only risk with staying put is that you might find you have problems getting paid on time. Only you can decide if its worth the risk. 35 hrs at €8.65 is still better than the dole and as mentioned already it is often much easier to find a job when in a job. And the fact that the finance manager is feeling sheepish about how you were treated could work in your favour when a reference is needed.

Thanks for that. . .I think it's best if I stick it out until I can get another job. As you quite rightly pointed out - even as bad as it is - it's still better than the dole :eek:. . . . And I don't want to mess up my chances of getting a decent reference.

Phantasos

If they are under financial pressure, make sure you get your (reduced) wages on time every week (or whatever the norm is). If they'd cut your wages like that, they'd have no qualms about putting off your wage payments either.

Hope you get work soon, and good luck. Looking for work in Galway myself and definitely don't want to end my job drought with a company like this...

Eoin

gabbytheking wrote: »

If you are leaving make sure to get the original salary paid up to date and tell them that you are making a complaint to NERA with regard to breach of an oral contract of employment and constructive dismissal. See extract: "3.1 CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL
An employee who resigns will be deemed to have been constructively dismissed in one
of two circumstances:
– as a result of a breach of contract of the employer, eg failure to pay wages
or a reduction in wages;"

See if their bark is as good as their bite! This is in my eyes unfair dismissal and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.

2 Links
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

http://imca.ie/assets/files/Management%20Themes/Employment%20Law%20issues%20in%20Leading%20Change.pdf

Constructive dismissal requires 12 months' continuous service with some exceptions that do not seem to apply in this case

I appreciate you're trying to be helpful, but nobody here should be advising on whether someone has a strong case or not. By all means point out the legislation that people can look up etc.

boarsboard

a trip to solicitor
keep emails for proof

verbal contracts are binding,

September2013

I'm very surprised by the poor advice that you have received in this forum. My suggestion would be that you take and continue in the job until something better comes along. It is far easier to get a job when you have one.

When I was staring out 21k was considered very good.

tayto lover

September2013 wrote: »

I'm very surprised by the poor advice that you have received in this forum. My suggestion would be that you take and continue in the job until something better comes along. It is far easier to get a job when you have one.

When I was staring out 21k was considered very good.

You sound like an employer with similar scruples.

ABajaninCork

You've missed the point. The OP was offered 21k, but was never given a contract. She subsequently discovered she was being paid far less (circa 18k). Neither is she 'starting out'. The OP has some experience in her field.

The consensus seems to be to take the job, and try for something else. Just as you've said.

September2013

Partly my bad - I skim read the thread

The consensus sounds good to me

April O Neill

Boofle wrote: »

Talk about a bad decision to take the job. . . . :cool:

Or not. This way, you likely won't be in the job for long through no fault of your own, which won't look bad on your CV as it's not your fault. You can search for jobs while there and hopefully will get something else before your current workplace goes under.

Boofle

OP here...update:

In a bit of a fix... the day after I was told about being put on minimum wage I went to my manager, the head of finance, lets call him 'John'..... I explained to John that I was baffled by what had transpired the previous day and that I was not prepared to work for 8.65 an hour - when I was offered €21,000 initially. He totally agreed with me and said he was embarrassed and that it's not how he likes to conduct business. But that as I had no contract I had nowhere to go with this whole debacle.

He then started saying that he didn't care about the place or his job anymore as he is just over six months there and therefore his mortgage protection kicks in should anything happen with his job!!!!! I was shocked at all he was saying and to be honest I didn't really want to hear it... To cut a long story short he said he would speak to the owner and see if he could work out a little more money for me per hour.

The following day he came in and said the owner may be able to give me €100 in 'mileage' - on the proviso that I stay until the end of September. I actually started laughing at this stage!! He started saying he didn't want me to leave them stuck (there is another girl in the office out on sick leave - stress).

The issue now is that I have two job interviews next week and obviously they are during my working hours....should I say I am going to the dentist?! I highly doubt that that excuse will be believed. I am determined to try and stick the job out until I secure other employment but am just afraid that they won't pay me etc if they cop on that I am going to interviews!!

I feel physically ill at the thoughts of going in there, not sleeping etc. What a shambles!! :eek:

dharma200

If you feel physically sick at the thought of going in there my advise would be to not.

You don't have to be treated like this. You are under o obligation to not leave them stuck, infact quite the opposite, they have left you stuck. Sounds like a horrible employer and I for one would walk x either way good luck with the interviews

Boofle

dharma200 wrote: »

If you feel physically sick at the thought of going in there my advise would be to not.

You don't have to be treated like this. You are under o obligation to not leave them stuck, infact quite the opposite, they have left you stuck. Sounds like a horrible employer and I for one would walk x either way good luck with the interviews

I totally agree with you but I feel I have no choice but to go in as I need the money unfortunately

dharma200

Ok, totally understand.... I wouldn't say you are going to the dentist as they could well ask for appointment card. I would just simply phone in sick... Are the interview on two consecutive days.. That would be handier... I wouldn't usually be one for lying but in this scenario you were really employed under false pretences, so wouldn't give a flying feck what they think etc. just get to your interviews by hook or by crook and do not worry about the other shower of....
I thnk you have to look objectively at how you were treated and treat your current employer with as much respect as they treated you, call in sick.

Boofle

dharma200 wrote: »

Ok, totally understand.... I wouldn't say you are going to the dentist as they could well ask for appointment card. I would just simply phone in sick... Are the interview on two consecutive days.. That would be handier... I wouldn't usually be one for lying but in this scenario you were really employed under false pretences, so wouldn't give a flying feck what they think etc. just get to your interviews by hook or by crook and do not worry about the other shower of....
I thnk you have to look objectively at how you were treated and treat your current employer with as much respect as they treated you, call in sick.

Thanks for that - ringing in sick it is then...... And although it's not my usual style - yes I am going to treat them with as much respect as they have treated me - zero!!!