Gas gone up again

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 4:53pm #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0902/471785-bord-gais-price-increase/

what's there excuse oh tariff price going up they wonder why shops are closing. Gas/Electric are all still at Celtic Tiger levels and all have gone up. Great environment to start up a business.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2012/0917/337942-bord-gais-to-increase-electricity-prices-by-4-8/

and that time weak Euro

shopaholic01 · 02-09-2013 4:57pm

Electricity will be next.

AlanS181824 · 02-09-2013 5:00pm

Feck sake Bord Gáis...

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:00pm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Electricity will be next.

it already will be in October. there using any excuse to squeeze money out of everyone. There is no Recession if you supply the energy apparently we need more competition in these sectors.

Driveby Dogboy · 02-09-2013 5:00pm

i run the gas off the electricty, and the electricty off the gas, and save $200 a year!

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:02pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

it already will be in October. there using any excuse to squeeze money out of everyone. There is no Recession if you supply the energy apparently we need more competition in these sectors.

There is loads of competition with at least four separate companies supplying domestic gas.
Truth is Energy prices are on the rise, and we are dependant on gas imports.

shopaholic01 · 02-09-2013 5:03pm

Driveby Dogboy wrote: »

i run the gas off the electricty, and the electricty off the gas, and save $200 a year!

What the euro equivalent?:p

hansfrei · 02-09-2013 5:04pm

Bottle your farts.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:05pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

There is loads of competition with at least four separate companies supplying domestic gas.
Truth is Energy prices are on the rise, and we are dependant on gas imports.

4 is loads ? seems like a pretty handy club to control the price. if only Insurance company's had thought of this oh wait..

Yawns · 02-09-2013 5:05pm

WTF. Last time they wanted a 12% but were given the go ahead for +20% and now another increase.

Banjo String · 02-09-2013 5:06pm

Gas gone up again.

Helium is it?

clairefontaine · 02-09-2013 5:06pm

Wait till Syria gets bombed. You're looking at a rise in petrol too.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:06pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

4 is loads ? seems like a pretty handy club to control the price. if only Insurance company's had thought of this oh wait..

Well whats your suggestion? How would you reduce the cost of gas?
four suppliers is quite a lot in a domestic gas market as small as Irelands.

Annasopra · 02-09-2013 5:06pm

Driveby Dogboy wrote: »

i run the gas off the electricty, and the electricty off the gas, and save $200 a year!

what?

Driveby Dogboy · 02-09-2013 5:06pm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

What the euro equivalent?:p

oh, about three fiddy...

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 5:07pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

4 is loads ? seems like a pretty handy club to control the price. if only Insurance company's had thought of this oh wait..

The energy market here is the same size as Greater Manchester.
More energy companies doesn't automatically mean lower prices, particularly when we're so heavily dependent on importing the vast majority of our energy anyway.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:08pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Well whats your suggestion? How would you reduce the cost of gas?
four suppliers is quite a lot in a domestic gas market as small as Irelands.

more like 4 middle men not suppliers and energy diversity would be my answer but to many people in the country are complaining about the view being ruined with giant turbines. imagine if they wanted them out a sea too.

shopaholic01 · 02-09-2013 5:10pm

Heroditas wrote: »

The energy market here is the same size as Greater Manchester.
More energy companies doesn't automatically mean lower prices, particularly when we're so heavily dependent on importing the vast majority of our energy anyway.

Doesn't Bord Gáis own the network anyway? There's no real independant supplier, so all prices are pretty similar.

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 5:11pm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Doesn't Bord Gáis own the network anyway? There's no real independant supplier, so all prices are pretty similar.

There's an element of network/transportation costs yes but also a lot has to do with booking capacity.

hansfrei · 02-09-2013 5:12pm

Rob your neighbours gas. Stick a magnet on the meter. Sell your sperm online etc......

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:12pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

more like 4 middle men not suppliers and energy diversity would be my answer but to many people in the country are complaining about the view being ruined with giant turbines. imagine if they wanted them out a sea too.

we have some degree of energy diversity including wind turbines , even at sea!
Problem is that wind turbines need a traditional back up for when the wind isn't strong enough.
Secondly wind is no replacement for gas in many instances.
since we have virtually no gas supplies of our own all gas suppliers are "middlemen" however there are substantial differences in what they charge for the product.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:13pm

seems were paying for them loaning money

http://www.bordgais.ie/corporate/cat_press_release_detail.jsp?itemID=562&n=0&p=0

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:14pm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Doesn't Bord Gáis own the network anyway? There's no real independant supplier, so all prices are pretty similar.

Bord Gais networks own the network, they are no longer part of Bord Gais Energy a separate entity.
There are four separate suppliers to the domestic market and their prices vary substantially.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:16pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

we have some degree of energy diversity including wind turbines , even at sea!
Problem is that wind turbines need a traditional back up for when the wind isn't strong enough.
Secondly wind is no replacement for gas in many instances.
since we have virtually no gas supplies of our own all gas suppliers are "middlemen" however there are substantial differences in what they charge for the product.

I gave 1 example .. i did say energy diversity that does not exclude all other energy production but you just seem to jump on the point and try to shoot it down. You have heard of Nuclear power stations right ?

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 5:16pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Bord Gais networks own the network, they are no longer part of Bord Gais Energy a separate entity.
There are four separate suppliers to the domestic market and their prices vary substantially.

Soon to be five with the new entrant!

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:18pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I gave 1 example .. i did say energy diversity that does not exclude all other energy production but you just seem to jump on the point and try to shoot it down. You have heard of Nuclear power stations right ?

My gas cooker wont work of nuclear unfortunately.:D
Any between the cost of building them (you need two) running them, decommissioning them, they are madly expensive.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:19pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

My gas cooker wont work of nuclear unfortunately.:D
Any between the cost of building them (you need two) running them, decommissioning them, they are madly expensive.

so shooting down every suggestion is your solution then ? and get an electric cooker then

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:25pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

so shooting down every suggestion is your solution then ? and get an electric cooker then

I'm not shooting anything down, except the idea that:
a) A secret cartel is ripping off the Irish gas consumer
b) a small almost bankrupt country can afford to build and maintain a nuclear energy industry.

I will stick to cooking with gas, its cleaner and much easier to control, thanks all the same.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:26pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

seems were paying for them loaning money

http://www.bordgais.ie/corporate/cat_press_release_detail.jsp?itemID=562&n=0&p=0

But I don't buy my gas from Bord Gais, so how am I paying for loaning them money?

spurious · 02-09-2013 5:27pm

I thought we were sitting on huge gas fields.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 5:30pm

spurious wrote: »

I thought we were sitting on huge gas fields.

One , the Corrib, but that still hasn't come ashore, and when it does it will be sold on the wholesale market.

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 5:31pm

spurious wrote: »

I thought we were sitting on huge gas fields.

One relatively small field which is being developed by Shell.
Apart from that, plenty of hot air claiming we're sitting on vast reserves yet there's not exactly an army of investors and speculators beating down Ireland's door to extract it. That in itself should tell us something.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:36pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

One , the Corrib, but that still hasn't come ashore, and when it does it will be sold on the wholesale market.

how about instead of creating threads were people can discuss things openly. And peoples opinions are taken into consideration. Everyone can Pm you for the answer as apparently you have the answer for everything? :P Google is a wonderful invention is it not

Hootanany · 02-09-2013 5:37pm

It is to fund the extortionist wages & Pension's

02-09-2013 5:42pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

how about instead of creating threads were people can discuss things openly. And peoples opinions are taken into consideration. Everyone can Pm you for the answer as apparently you have the answer for everything? :P Google is a wonderful invention is it not

Mod

How about you argue your points without resorting to being a dick.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 5:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

How about you argue your points without resorting to being a dick.

why does it have to be an argument ? back to the original point. How can they justify putting up the price again.

vicwatson · 02-09-2013 5:56pm

Has the Energy regulator ever brought the price DOWN ;-(

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 5:56pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

why does it have to be an argument ? back to the original point. How can they justify putting up the price again.

The explanation behind it is in the CER's decision document.

vicwatson · 02-09-2013 5:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

How about you argue your points without resorting to being a dick.

Attack the post not the poster ??

Yellow Card !

02-09-2013 6:00pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

why does it have to be an argument ? back to the original point. How can they justify putting up the price again.

vicwatson wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster ??

Yellow Card !

Both of you should have a read of the charter regarding question mods on thread. If you have an issue with a mod decision, take it to PM.

It's also worth noting that "don't be a dick" is not only part of the AH charter but a sitewide rule.

sabat · 02-09-2013 6:04pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Truth is Energy prices are on the rise, and we are dependant on gas imports.

Sure about that? Natural gas is down 15% since April:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=12

The euro is also up a bit against the dollar over the same period:

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=1Y

pajor · 02-09-2013 6:06pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

Wait till Syria gets bombed. You're looking at a rise in petrol too.

The price of oil has already spiked on Syria, so it will!

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 6:07pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

why does it have to be an argument ? back to the original point. How can they justify putting up the price again.

Because wholesale prices are on the up, the energy index is on the up.
But you can save substantially by changing providers.
Anyway its a very small rise which will add less than 35 a cent a week to the average families gas bill.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 6:11pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Because wholesale prices are on the up, the energy index is on the up.
But you can save substantially by changing providers.
Anyway its a very small rise which will add less than 35 a cent a week to the average families gas bill.

the rise before that they blamed on a weakening Euro the Euro is up now but they did not put the price hike down then did they.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2012/0917/337942-bord-gais-to-increase-electricity-prices-by-4-8/

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 6:16pm

sabat wrote: »

Sure about that? Natural gas is down 15% since April:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=12

The euro is also up a bit against the dollar over the same period:

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=1Y

But it is substantially higher than it was last October when a price rise was last sanctioned.
The regulator sets the price BGE can charge every October, so now look back using your own link , to the change over the last 12 months.
Also we have to forward buy some of the gas we will need and that is being bought at a price higher than it was 12 months ago.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 6:18pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

But it is substantially higher than it was last October when a price rise was last sanctioned.
The regulator sets the price BGE can charge every October, so now look back using your own link , to the change over the last 12 months.
Also we have to forward buy some of the gas we will need and that is being bought at a price higher than it was 12 months ago.

Good point but they are only passing on the costs never the savings they make

Heroditas · 02-09-2013 6:19pm

sabat wrote: »

Sure about that? Natural gas is down 15% since April:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=12

The euro is also up a bit against the dollar over the same period:

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=1Y

Dollar has nothing to do with gas prices here, it's Sterling that counts.
Also there is always a large difference between winter and summer gas prices. You need to look at the price on a year-on-year basis.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 6:22pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Good point but they are only passing on the costs never the savings they make

Ah well that never happens does it!
You also have to bear in mind that there are other costs that gas companies would have, wage inflation etc.
That said all four companies are in business to make a profit.

sabat · 02-09-2013 6:24pm

Heroditas wrote: »

Dollar has nothing to do with gas prices here, it's Sterling that counts.
Also there is always a large difference between winter and summer gas prices. You need to look at the price on a year-on-year basis.

Ok then, it's still significantly cheaper than it was for most of the 'noughties':

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=180

The Euro vs Sterling shows a similiar path the vs the dollar.

darkpagandeath · 02-09-2013 6:28pm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Ah well that never happens does it!
You also have to bear in mind that there are other costs that gas companies would have, wage inflation etc.
That said all four companies are in business to make a profit.

How will they make profits when eventually people will not be able to afford there exorbitant prices. There are already 1000s of people in areas to energy company's. And all they do is pass on the Costs. There will be a tipping point were there will be mass cutting off then what will they do ? less customers less profits

surly making a little profit is better than creaming people and eventually going bankrupt ?

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 02-09-2013 6:31pm

sabat wrote: »

Ok then, it's still significantly cheaper than it was for most of the 'noughties':

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=180

The Euro vs Sterling shows a similiar path the vs the dollar.

those are US prices quoted at the gas Hub in Louisiana.
In the same way as Crude Oil is significantly cheaper in the US V Brent in Europe, so to are the wholesale gas prices different.

Gas gone up again

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