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M50 fine for nordy car

  • 31-08-2013 11:03am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17


    Hi folks. Hoping for a bit of advice. Can't get a clear and up to date answer from other threads.

    My mum lives in belfast and over the summer has made a few trips down to Kerry. A few weeks ago she got an m50 fine letter. All ok payed up and everybody happy!

    Until she phoned up to pay for another trip and was told that she has had outstanding fines that have been transferred to a solicitors.

    My mum is now convinced that she is to be extradited to The Hague for war crimes and is worried sick.

    So..
    Does anyone know if it is epc plc that enforce this in the north?

    Or have any other sensible advice or experience.

    My inclination is that I will be advising her not to pay any extortionate fines to a uk debt collection agency but want to make sure she won't end up in court.

    She is in get 70s and as soon as she twigged she had to pay she did. Solicitors are another matter


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭PeteEd


    What op? are you on about unpaid toll charges? if your mother used the roads, pay the tolls


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    PeteEd wrote: »
    What op? are you on about unpaid toll charges? if your mother used the roads, pay the tolls

    Thanks for that. Very helpful advice. It's not the tolls that's the concern it's the debt collection company who are going to try to take an extortionate amount from a lady who made a genuine mistake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    See the motor forum. The best plan is to call them and agree to register your reg number with an account (which would mean automatic payment in the future) if they cancel the previous fines.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    to be honest I don't know how anyone could not see or ignore the signs. It makes you wonder what other road signs people don't see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    corktina wrote: »
    to be honest I don't know how anyone could not see or ignore the signs. It makes you wonder what other road signs people don't see.

    More helpful advice. Great stuff. Wonderfully constructive contribution


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭RossieMan


    Well what were you expecting from this?

    She made a mistake, so just pay the fines for it.
    no need to get narky.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    RossieMan wrote: »
    Well what were you expecting from this?

    She made a mistake, so just pay the fines for it.
    no need to get narky.

    The fines are not the issue. The issue is being pursued to another jurisdiction by a debt collection company who take a legitimate fine which would approach 100 euro And quadruple it overnight for profit. This has little to do with e flow or the m50 system. I was asking for advice and help not a criticism of my mothers morals or eyesight. Hard not to get narky.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    the advice is to pay up. I for one didn't say anything about her eyesight or morals. She should read road signs though, they are very clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    OP: you said your mother paid the fines but that she rang up and was told she still had outstanding fines.

    How many fines has your mother incurred? One, two, multiple fines?

    If she's only incurred one fine, and has paid it, then she needn't worry.

    She should phone again and establish if the company's records have been updated.

    If not, she can supply them with evidence (bank/card statement) that she's paid the fine.

    If there are other fines outstanding, she should arrange to pay those too.

    In future, I suggest that she pays her M50 tolls within the required time limit, instead of incurring fines.

    If it's too much for her at her age, then you could do it for her.

    I'm sure making a couple of phone calls on behalf of your mother shouldn't be too much of a hassle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    Not entirely sure. When she rang up to pay her journey this time she was told that she had unpaid journeys previously (probably 2-4 maximum over the years) as she usually gets the train down. The guy told her that because she had paid an outstanding fine they now had confirmation of her address, had reviewed their records and forwarded details of these previous journeys to a solicitor/debt collection agent.

    Dont worry about future journeys! - she should stick to the train and im trying to sort her with an eflow account charged to me so that any other transgressions wont be an issue


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    im trying to find the the road traffic act where it deals with the m50 toll but they did a good job of hiding it lol...i read it before and from what i remember it doesn actually say anything in it about them being able to impose a fine. i think it says that once the fee is paid no court action will be taken. so all you would have to do is pop into a shop or pay online for the journeys that were made and i dont think they would have a leg to stand on legally


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    the advice is to pay up. I for one didn't say anything about her eyesight or morals. She should read road signs though, they are very clear.

    Of course one should read road signs. But you cannot pay then, an hour later or whenever you can pay, you will have been watching many other road signs and you could forget to pay.
    When she rang up to pay her journey this time she was told that she had unpaid journeys previously (probably 2-4 maximum over the years) as she usually gets the train down. The guy told her that because she had paid an outstanding fine they now had confirmation of her address, had reviewed their records and forwarded details of these previous journeys to a solicitor/debt collection agent.

    There seems to be a step missing in this process. Person rings up to pay, a sign of good faith, toll people say aha we now have your address and off to the debt collectors with you. If they didn't previously have her address they cannot have sent any sort of bill and presumably it wasn't worthwhile getting her address from the NI DVLA. In this case, the next step would seem to be sending a bill for the fines etc, giving some period to respond before calling in the debt collectors. Say you had paid, but had accidently put in the wrong reg, you could not have known there was a problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    I agree that it doesnt seem to make sense. It seems to be out of our hands at present however, the m50 people say they can no longer accept payment. So I think we are going to wait and see what (if any) threatening letters appear and deal with it from that point.

    Most of the posts from UK forums on this issue suggest that the fine is purchased by a private company called EuroCarParking PLC who may pursue the debt but cannot pursue the case through the courts and can bark loudly but are completely toothless. Im not sure if this is who looks after things in the north.

    Either way we will sort it out and try to convince my ma that shes not going to end up in Mountjoy


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    Fioni wrote: »
    I agree that it doesnt seem to make sense. It seems to be out of our hands at present however, the m50 people say they can no longer accept payment. So I think we are going to wait and see what (if any) threatening letters appear and deal with it from that point.

    Most of the posts from UK forums on this issue suggest that the fine is purchased by a private company called EuroCarParking PLC who may pursue the debt but cannot pursue the case through the courts and can bark loudly but are completely toothless. Im not sure if this is who looks after things in the north.

    Either way we will sort it out and try to convince my ma that shes not going to end up in Mountjoy


    euro car parking do collect the fines in outside of ireland. but if you go into any shop and pay for the amount of journeys you should cover yourself legally. i cant see any judge making a judgment against somebody who has paid the toll


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Place a request under the data protection act for all data relating to the case. That way you get info on dates, letters sent and so on. If they passed on the case to the debt collectors without actually contacting you, then you have a case for appeal.

    Eurocarparking cannot do much, if you are the type of person that doesn't give a damn, but your mother may not be in that category.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    It seems a bit drastic to take such heavy-handed action against an elderly woman.

    I think it could be advisable to contact the M50 toll company with a subject access request under the Data Protection Act (pretty much the same rights in ROI as NI), get complete copies of all the files on her, then send a cheque (in euros!) for the outstanding toll charges and fines, along with a letter stating that this is a full and final offer to pay these outstanding amounts.

    If it does end up in court (which seems unlikely if what you say about EuroCarParking plc is true), then she'll be able to prove to the court that she's made a very reasonable offer which should have been accepted.

    Courts don't give carte blanche for creditors (whether the original company or a debt collection agency) to add excessive charges and penalties onto the original debt.

    In most cases, there is no legal or contractual right for extra charges to be added on to the original debt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭wally1990


    Yes euro parking can enforce the unpaid tolls from Republic of Ireland in any other European country ,
    If pf in Kerry contact euro parking who in turn send your mother unpaid tolls notices in sterling they can bring her to court in Northern Ireland for the unpaid tolls, unfortunately
    Legal Enforcement
    On receipt of the relevant judgment from the local court where the contravention occurred, the relevant authority may seek to enforce that judgment in the contravener's domiciled country. Amongst the acts forming the legal basis for this procedure is the Council Regulation (EC) 44/2001, which states that a judgment given in any signatory's state and enforceable in that state shall be enforced in any other signatory's state when, on application by any interested party, it has been declared enforceable there. Thus, an Order granted by the Parking Enforcement Centre or similar authority in other jurisdictions is a valid judgment under the terms of the Council Regulation. In the UK, the relevant authority may enforce any judgment obtained in a foreign jurisdiction under the Foreign Judgment (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933. This legislation has been incorporated into the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgment Act 1982 and this act will be applied through the courts under RSC Order 71. Furthermore, treaties such as the European Convention on the Punishment of Road Traffic Offences 1964, the European Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters 1959 and the Council Decision on the application of the principle of mutual recognition to financial penalties, may be applicable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Fioni


    thankfully this doesnt seem to be happening in reality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭wally1990


    No I haven’t heard of anyone been taken to court for the m50 that that are residence outside of the republic of Ireland, But if push comes to shove then legally yes they can bring your mother to court (hopefully wont happen). The legal receipt I posted above is directly from euro parking website. They also have more information based on data protection in relation to retrieving the register owner vehicles details from outside of the republic. (I’m personally just been honest and don’t want anyone to get in trouble and never advise them not to pay, like some people on here would). Legally they can peruse the case. I know that journeys that are unpaid with eFlow are just passed over to P F solicitors in Kerry, Usually customer's are made aware when they contact eFlow. Or when a letter comes in the post from euro parking for unpaid tolls.

    Best of luck anyway and I hope your poor mother won’t get in trouble and it’s possibly overlooked or forgotten.
    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    There are people with hundreds of unpaid trips on the M50, they may get brought to court. The OPs mother has a handful of unpaid trips, there is no way she will be involved with a court, whatever threatening language is used in any letters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭BMJD


    Quite a lot of the toll reminder signs are rather stupidly placed behind trees and shrubs, for example this one; and that is a couple of years ago. Easily missed if you are in lane 3 at 100km/h with traffic to your left. I could well understand someone who is not familiar with the route or the toll process not understanding that they have to pay. The overhead gantry sign is there too of course but there are so many of those signs now that you could easily ignore it, assuming that it's just info about the next exit or whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,220 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    This might sound harsh, but I'll risk it because it's true:

    If as some people said above it's "too much for her at her age" - if she's capable of driving the car on that road, she should be able to ring up and pay the toll.

    The above said, the OP makes it sound like she was given the impression she was paid up to date only to be told that other fees were then due. Time to ring eflow and ask for a recording of that call.


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