Race shoe

mr.wiggle

Hi all,
Some advice needed please.
I'm currently training for the DCM in a pair of pegasus 29's, but would like to try a lighter shoe for the race itself.
A good idea or not?
Anyone got an idea about what type of runner I should be looking at?

Thanks, Mr.W

Krusty_Clown

What weight are you, and what's your marathon target? Generally speaking, you shouldn't be carrying much excess weight, and be a pretty efficient runner, before you consider racing flats for a full marathon. Running in racing flats for the duration of a marathon will exert a lot of stress on the legs, particularly if you are not used to them (which I'm guessing you're not). I'd consider wearing them for a season of 5k, 10k, and longer distance races first.

Maybe find a compromise shoe? I've always favoured the Mizuno Precision as a light long distance shoe suitable for a marathon, but it's in the course of being discontinued.

Itziger

Can I jump in here and maybe get a bit of feedback. Earlier this year got my first racing shoe - Ronin 3 or 4, can't remember!! -. Did a 10k in em and then a Half. Both felt fine. I'm hoping to wear them in a full soon. First I'll try em on a long run. One of my only worries is I'm a bit of a cramper ......

Weight: 69k
Target 3:06 (PB 3:12:5x)

Oh, and a lovely smooth economic style, except for the shuffle from km 34 to finish.

sconhome

mr.wiggle wrote: »

Hi all,
Some advice needed please.
I'm currently training for the DCM in a pair of pegasus 29's, but would like to try a lighter shoe for the race itself.
A good idea or not?
Anyone got an idea about what type of runner I should be looking at?

Thanks, Mr.W

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What weight are you, and what's your marathon target? Generally speaking, you shouldn't be carrying much excess weight, and be a pretty efficient runner, before you consider racing flats for a full marathon. Running in racing flats for the duration of a marathon will exert a lot of stress on the legs, particularly if you are not used to them (which I'm guessing you're not). I'd consider wearing them for a season of 5k, 10k, and longer distance races first.

Maybe find a compromise shoe? I've always favoured the Mizuno Precision as a light long distance shoe suitable for a marathon, but it's in the course of being discontinued.

Having seen Mr Wiggle in action in Portumna this year, disappearing off into the distance I can with surety recommend the Saucony Fastwitch as a shoe that would work for you definitely over half marthon and with a little bit of extra work suit for the full marathon.

KC - the Precision will be gone very shortly and replaced by the Sayonara which also doubles as the replacement for the Elixir.

Krusty_Clown

Pfitzinger and Douglas recommends that those who are:

Male:
Sub 2:40
Weight less than 160 pounds (73kgs)
History of being relatively injury free
Good biomechanics

Female:
Sub 2:55
Weight less than 140 pounds (63kgs)
History of being relatively injury free
Good biomechanics

There are are number of runners on this forum who wouldn't tick those boxes, but still wear flats comfortably for the marathon, so it's not an absolute set of rules. I tick off the first two boxes, but would be hesitant to wear flats for a marathon. I do wear Saucony Kinvaras for marathons though and find 'em a good marathon distance shoe.

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Can I jump in here and maybe get a bit of feedback. Earlier this year got my first racing shoe - Ronin 3 or 4, can't remember!! -. Did a 10k in em and then a Half. Both felt fine. I'm hoping to wear them in a full soon. First I'll try em on a long run. One of my only worries is I'm a bit of a cramper ......

Weight: 69k
Target 3:06 (PB 3:12:5x)

Oh, and a lovely smooth economic style, except for the shuffle from km 34 to finish.

Well, if you can run with them comfortably in a half-marathon, that's half the battle (if you'll pardon the pun). Wear em for a few 15 mile runs and you'll get an idea Also, keep an eye on whether it takes you longer to recover from a recovery run.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Pfitzinger and Douglas recommends that those who are:

Male:
Sub 2:40
Weight less than 160 pounds (73kgs)
History of being relatively injury free
Good biomechanics

Female:
Sub 2:55
Weight less than 140 pounds (63kgs)
History of being relatively injury free
Good biomechanics

There are are number of runners on this forum who wouldn't tick those boxes, but still wear flats comfortably for the marathon, so it's not an absolute set of rules. I tick off the first two boxes, but would be hesitant to wear flats for a marathon. I do wear Saucony Kinvaras for marathons though and find 'em a good marathon distance shoe.

Yeah, I fail on the first one for sure! Touch wood, I'm very rarely off with an injury and my gait ain't bad. I suppose it's a gamble and I'll find out on the day. Will try a 34k run with them first in any case.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Well, if you can run with them comfortably in a half-marathon, that's half the battle (if you'll pardon the pun). Wear em for a few 15 mile runs and you'll get an idea Also, keep an eye on whether it takes you longer to recover from a recovery run.

Thanks for the advice. I had NO problem at all in the Half, posting a pb of 1.24.58. In fact it was a 3 minute course best.

ecoli

Use the Fast twitch myself for sessions and would agree with AK they are a great shoe and I love them. I normally wear very light racers (The likes of the Brooks T7s up as far as half marathon)

The Fast twich would be a tiny step up but still very light

sconhome

ecoli wrote: »

Use the Fast twitch myself for sessions and would agree with AK they are a great shoe and I love them. I normally wear very light racers (The likes of the Brooks T7s up as far as half marathon)

The Fast twich would be a tiny step up but still very light

The interesting thing is the T7 is a 9mm drop while the Fastwitch is 4mm. The Fastwitch is more in the vein of a traditional 'flat' than the T7.

Krusty I'm curious, is it the cushioning comfort of the Kinvara you prefer over the marathon distance to say the Precision? Again the Kinvara is a lower heel / minimalist shoe but is more comfortable relative to the firmer midsole of the 'flat' Precision.

I did a piece a while ago 'What's in a name?' trying to pick apart the definitions of barefoot / minimal / flat and look at the differences in them.

All in the spirit of 'the best hurler being in the ditch' cos I'm nowhere near 2:40 or 73kg or any other of those boxes

Krusty_Clown

I read your previous article (and we had some discourse on the subject at the time). I know you see the Kinvara as a transitional shoe, but for me, it hits the right notes for a marathon shoe. Like a racing flat, it's light and has a very low heel to toe drop, but unlike a racing flat it's got some support/cushioning (or at least gives that impression).

The Precision used to be my marathon shoe of choice until they had a bad revision (the 14?).I was also looking for something lighter and the Kinvara fit the bill. In racing flats, I've worn Mushas and Saucony Type A5, which I've found grand for 5k - 10 mile, but anything longer and I'd be in a heap.

BeepBeep67

I've been transitioning to lower profile shoes over the last few years, have run about half (900mls or so) of my mileage in 6mm or less this year; mainly in the Inov8 RoadX series, I enjoy them for training and I'm using the X178 (3mm) for 5k races, but you have zero support and little surface protection.
I have a pair of Kinvara 3's and have done 20 mls in them without issue, but do find them a little spongy and the ST5 (12mm) is my main mileage shoe (just picked up another few pairs), I'd be keen to know if there's an upgrade here.
I do need a fast 10k shoe, I don't have the confidence to go there with the X178 yet, maybe the Fast Twitch or A5 would be worth a punt.

BTW Sean, nice article I'd probably use up a few more pages

sconhome

Have to be careful not to declare too many shoes or they will start disappearing

Mind you, I was thinking of that photo of yours to create a diversion

mr.wiggle

amphkingwest wrote: »

The interesting thing is the T7 is a 9mm drop while the Fastwitch is 4mm. The Fastwitch is more in the vein of a traditional 'flat' than the T7.

Krusty I'm curious, is it the cushioning comfort of the Kinvara you prefer over the marathon distance to say the Precision? Again the Kinvara is a lower heel / minimalist shoe but is more comfortable relative to the firmer midsole of the 'flat' Precision.

I did a piece a while ago 'What's in a name?' trying to pick apart the definitions of barefoot / minimal / flat and look at the differences in them.

All in the spirit of 'the best hurler being in the ditch' cos I'm nowhere near 2:40 or 73kg or any other of those boxes

Thx for the advice S, I'm still looking for a bit of cushioning, don't want a racing 'flat' - so would the T7 be more my style. Did I hear you are in Limerick these days? If so I might drop in during the week?

sconhome

mr.wiggle wrote: »

Thx for the advice S, I'm still looking for a bit of cushioning, don't want a racing 'flat' - so would the T7 be more my style. Did I hear you are in Limerick these days? If so I might drop in during the week?

Indeed I am sir, exiled to purgatory .

Pop in any time & you can have a play in some new shoes.

spurscormac

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I've been transitioning to lower profile shoes over the last few years, have run about half (900mls or so) of my mileage in 6mm or less this year; mainly in the Inov8 RoadX series, I enjoy them for training and I'm using the X178 (3mm) for 5k races, but you have zero support and little surface protection.
I have a pair of Kinvara 3's and have done 20 mls in them without issue, but do find them a little spongy and the ST5 (12mm) is my main mileage shoe (just picked up another few pairs), I'd be keen to know if there's an upgrade here.
I do need a fast 10k shoe, I don't have the confidence to go there with the X178 yet, maybe the Fast Twitch or A5 would be worth a punt.

BTW Sean, nice article I'd probably use up a few more pages

Interesting point on the 178s. I like the 233s as a great training shoe (but its 6mm), and the 178s as a 5k shoe. I wish they'd make a 3mm shoe with more support, similar to the 233 that I could train lots in & safely do 10k races in, maybe even up to 10 mile or HM.
I'm afraid I'd wear through the 178s too quick if I did any big training in them.

BeepBeep67

spurscormac wrote: »

Interesting point on the 178s. I like the 233s as a great training shoe (but its 6mm), and the 178s as a 5k shoe. I wish they'd make a 3mm shoe with more support, similar to the 233 that I could train lots in & safely do 10k races in, maybe even up to 10 mile or HM.
I'm afraid I'd wear through the 178s too quick if I did any big training in them.

The 233's are bullet proof, I've 544 mls on one pair and still going strong.

BeepBeep67

Bit the bullet on the way home and called into AK Bray, with the intention of picking up the Fastwitch......but the A5's were waaaaaay tooooo shiny and light........I'll give them a spin at the F4L 5k on Thurs and report back if I'm left with any permanent muscular and skeletal injuries!!

sconhome

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Bit the bullet on the way home and called into AK Bray, with the intention of picking up the Fastwitch......but the A5's were waaaaaay tooooo shiny and light........I'll give them a spin at the F4L 5k on Thurs and report back if I'm left with any permanent muscular and skeletal injuries!!

You have the same afliction as a certain Racoon around these parts!

Can't separate the 'needs' from the 'wants'

(Thankfully!!)

BeepBeep67

amphkingwest wrote: »

You have the same afliction as a certain Racoon around these parts!

Can't separate the 'needs' from the 'wants'

(Thankfully!!)

:P

4 mls in them on the treadie this morning - nice!
Actual weight for the size 10 is 185gms, this compares vs:
Pro 4 - 182gms
X178 - 218gms
Kinvara - 232grms
ST5 - 278gms
Very similar design and weight as the Pro4, though seems like there's a little less sole and little more upper. Not sure the drop on the Pro4's but it feels more than 4mm.
Definitely a slightly wider fit, which I prefer, even though I have narrow feet.
I always found the Pro4's a little too narrow, so we were never going to have a lasting relationship and we were never going beyond 5k.
Looking forward to giving the A5's a proper rattle tomorrow night

mr.wiggle

Very impressed with the new store in Limerick. Was encouraged to try on different model runners and have a jog around the store. Did my best Bolt impersonation , probably looked more like Rob Heffernan though! Settled on a lovely pair of Brooks pure flow 2, Cant believe how comfortable the fit is. Taking them out for a tempo session tonight. Thanks for the time Sean, delighted to have a goto store close to home!

ThePiedPiper

Amphibiankingwest, you've ruined my day. Can't believe the Elixir will be no more! And the poxy colour scheme on the 8 is the last of the line. I suppose I'll have to content myself with picking up a couple pairs of them anyway. Every shoe I've transitioned into this year has been discontinued. First the Green Silence, not the Elixir, don't know what I should jinx next.

BeepBeep67

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

:P

4 mls in them on the treadie this morning - nice!
Actual weight for the size 10 is 185gms, this compares vs:
Pro 4 - 182gms
X178 - 218gms
Kinvara - 232grms
ST5 - 278gms
Very similar design and weight as the Pro4, though seems like there's a little less sole and little more upper. Not sure the drop on the Pro4's but it feels more than 4mm.
Definitely a slightly wider fit, which I prefer, even though I have narrow feet.
I always found the Pro4's a little too narrow, so we were never going to have a lasting relationship and we were never going beyond 5k.
Looking forward to giving the A5's a proper rattle tomorrow night

1 race, 1 master's 5k PB - no complaints from me

ThePiedPiper

I take it all back amphibiankingwest, the reviews for the Sayonara are very very positive... Embrace change and all of that.

sconhome

RunForestRun wrote: »

Amphibiankingwest, you've ruined my day. Can't believe the Elixir will be no more! And the poxy colour scheme on the 8 is the last of the line. I suppose I'll have to content myself with picking up a couple pairs of them anyway. Every shoe I've transitioned into this year has been discontinued. First the Green Silence, not the Elixir, don't know what I should jinx next.

RunForestRun wrote: »

I take it all back amphibiankingwest, the reviews for the Sayonara are very very positive... Embrace change and all of that.

Oh the ebb and flow of mixed emotions

Yeah its a pity the 8 was the swansong of the line, though by the time I realised the 7 was such a cracking shoe for me it was too late to pick up extra pairs.

I'm really saving my 7's for special occasions now, though I am warming to the Sayonara more and more (necessity? )

sconhome

mr.wiggle wrote: »

Very impressed with the new store in Limerick. Was encouraged to try on different model runners and have a jog around the store. Did my best Bolt impersonation , probably looked more like Rob Heffernan though! Settled on a lovely pair of Brooks pure flow 2, Cant believe how comfortable the fit is. Taking them out for a tempo session tonight. Thanks for the time Sean, delighted to have a goto store close to home!

Hope they went as well as expected Mr. Wiggle.

Great to catch up again after the dusting you gave me in Portumna

mr.wiggle

amphkingwest wrote: »

Hope they went as well as expected Mr. Wiggle.

Great to catch up again after the dusting you gave me in Portumna

Ran a quick 6k in them last night, and when i say quick, I mean too quick! :eek:
Very light feel and they really were pushing me forward onto the balls of my feet. i think they are going to take a bit of getting used to, but looking forward to doing more miles in them. The split toe is a nice idea, my big toe feels more involved now !:pac:

Best of luck with your training for Amsterdam, let us know how things go ?

sconhome

mr.wiggle wrote: »

Ran a quick 6k in them last night, and when i say quick, I mean too quick! :eek:
Very light feel and they really were pushing me forward onto the balls of my feet. i think they are going to take a bit of getting used to, but looking forward to doing more miles in them. The split toe is a nice idea, my big toe feels more involved now !:pac:

You've unleashed the beast within!!