EU committee to investigate lack of infrastructure in the west.

The EU are sending its regional development committee to Ireland to investigate why the government are unwilling to spend or apply for available infrastructural funds for the west and North west of Ireland(Not Limerick, Cork etc).

This appears to be getting unusually low attention in the media, its obviously embarrassing for them that the EU has to point this out. It also appears to be a continuation of the last governments policy during the boom. The bigger question is why do the politicians from Donegal to Galway allow this to happen so freely ?

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1193-eu-has-to-beg-government-to-seek-funds-for-the-west

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1193-eu-has-to-beg-government-to-seek-funds-for-the-west

Oh great, there is money available for the Western Rail Corridor. The taxpayer will just have to fork out the tens of millions to run it.

SpaceTime

They need to finish the M20 to connect Limerick to Cork and finish the motorway between Galway and Limerick and improve the road from Galway to Sligo even if not to motorway spec and from Sligo to Letterkenny and Derry ultimately.

For 99.999% of people in the West the rail corridor is basically irrelevant.

A proper road linking Cork-Limerick-Shannon-Ennis-Galway-Sligo would really improve business and tourism possibilities in a big way.

worded

We do love roads and cars.

SpaceTime

worded wrote: »

We do love roads and cars.

Well, yeah because we also love low density housing and scattered development making rail completely useless other than for a few commuter towns in and out of Galway and Limerick as is evidenced by the passenger numbers on the WRC.

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well, yeah because we also love low density housing and scattered development making rail completely useless other than for a few commuter towns in and out of Galway and Limerick as is evidenced by the passenger numbers on the WRC.

WRC would be a waste of any funding, it would be down the list of necessities
A)Completing the motorway network between Sligo and Galway would be a start.
B)Or Funding necessary Knock Airport Expansion
C)Or even a broadband network that works
D)Or sewage systems for towns like Belmullett that pump raw sewage into the sea.
E)A Better road link to Donegal
F)Bypass of Sligo, improvements to its I.T.


I believe the EU concern on this matter is with the West, North West Border region, Not the Southern region i.e. Limerick, Cork, Kerry.

With EU funding available and the government been embarrassed into this situation, why is this allowed to get to this stage by the department of Transport ?

This same situation happened in the last decade with structural funds meant for the west been transferred for use on Eastern and Southern motorways by Bertie and Co, and again there was no complaint from Western politicians.

Petition 836/2012 by Martin Cunniffe (Irish), on behalf of West On Track, on the
lack of transparency and fairness in transport policy in Ireland
Speakers: the Chair, Martin Cunniffee (petitioner), Helen Rochford-Brennan
(petitioner), Paul O'Connor (petitioner), Peter Declan Bowen-Walsh (petitioner),
Stephen Langley (Commission), Martina Anderson, Marian Harkin, and Jim Higgins.
Decision: keep open; consider in light of the forthcoming fact-finding visit to Ireland in the
second half of 2013; request a written opinion from the Committee on Transport and Tourism
(TRAN); ask the Commission to provide figures on the breakdown of funds disbursed; send a
letter to the Irish Minister of Transport

I think this is the petition - I posted it elsewhere too.
This isn't the EU deciding off its own bat to investigate, it is responding to a petition from a lobby group.

skafish

Deleted User wrote: »

WRC would be a waste of any funding, it would be down the list of necessities

B)Or Funding necessary Knock Airport Expansion



WTF?
In the name of all thats holy why do we need anything other than a regional airport (or any airport, for that matter) in Mayo?
The cold war is over, so the CIA will not be channeling funds to Knock to provide an emergency landing strip for their B2 bombers any more.
Or did I miss something? Is there any other logical reason for its existence?
Having said that, I agree with most of the rest of your post

Scofflaw

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well, yeah because we also love low density housing and scattered development making rail completely useless other than for a few commuter towns in and out of Galway and Limerick as is evidenced by the passenger numbers on the WRC.

Which unfortunately becomes something of a self-sustaining cycle - no point in building rail because of the low-density development -> build roads -> encourage low-density development.

cordially,
Scofflaw

murphaph

Scofflaw wrote: »

Which unfortunately becomes something of a self-sustaining cycle - no point in building rail because of the low-density development -> build roads -> encourage low-density development.

cordially,
Scofflaw

But the wrc used to exist all the way up to Sligo. People didn't build houses adjacent to stations like kiltimagh, they built one offs, away from existing villages. You can bring a horse to water and all that.

skafish

skafish wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

WRC would be a waste of any funding, it would be down the list of necessities

B)Or Funding necessary Knock Airport Expansion



WTF?
In the name of all thats holy why do we need anything other than a regional airport (or any airport, for that matter) in Mayo?
The cold war is over, so the CIA will not be channeling funds to Knock to provide an emergency landing strip for their B2 bombers any more.
Or did I miss something? Is there any other logical reason for its existence?
Having said that, I agree with most of the rest of your post

Sounds like the kind of attitude that some members of government have, hence the fact-finding mission by the EU.

700 Thousand people in the West and North West(Donegal to Galway, including some of the midlands) of Ireland use it as there main transport link in and out of the country. Most people that use the airport do so due to there distance from Dublin and the goat-track type road to Dublin, where the motorway only starts after Mullingar. It is a very important piece of infrastructure for the development of the region. As a prime example of infrastructural neglect if it was up to the governments of the day it would never have been built. Knock sees itself as nothing more than a regional airport and is not trying to be anything else.

With expansion i simply mean 1) bigger paved carpark (currently full), 2)bigger Arrivals and departure lounges (too small for existing footfall), 3 bigger apron for planes to land (gets tight when there is three or more planes there).
This is tiny money(a fraction of the money it generates for the region) and would be items that would be taken for granted anywhere else in the country. I would expect less that 10% of the money recently(and so easily) given to Shannon would cover it.

Maybe the EU committee will decide to enter the country via Knock.

notharrypotter

It looks like the visitors is the railway grants section not the roads.

I drove to Donegal last month and I think that the road would be more useful.

Rightwing

I was on the train from Limk to Galway a while back, a nightmare journey, about 2 hrs. I'd say there wasn't 10 people on the train. The car takes a little over an hour. No point spending money for the sake of it.

I agree the government is neglecting the West, the main road between Limk and Waterford is an embarrassment & a death trap, and the one to Cork is a little better.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

It looks like the visitors is the railway grants section not the roads.

I drove to Donegal last month and I think that the road would be more useful.

I can not see the point of spending money on rail in the region until it is more populated. It won't be more populated until it has more facilities and access roads and jobs.

We cannot even get certain industry into the region due to the lack of high voltage electricity supply lines. I'm told this might be rectified with construction of new lines beginning 2016:eek:, disturbingly this is not because they want to bring high phase power to North connaught but because the government want to use electricity that will be generated in Belmullet from that date :rolleyes:

Boston Scientific apparently chose to expand in Galway city over Castlebar simply due to the lack of High phase power available at that time.

Enda Kenny should be ashamed that an EU committee has to investigate why he has not spent money that they are willing to fund for a region he comes from, especially when he knows whats lacking.

SpaceTime

I go to Sligo a lot and the road would be vastly more useful.

I think we have to be realistic here Ireland is not a collection of neatly defined cities and towns. Rail would really struggle to connect people.

I would rather see money in the west go into development of rural bus services rather than to lash more cash into a slow railway line that hardly anybody uses other than commuters a few km from Galway or Limerick ...

There are loads of small towns that would benefit from improved bus connections to their local big town / city that would absolutely not benefit from a railway.

The government probably hasn't applied for these funds because they're normally for % cofunding and because they're not willing to spend more on white elephant projects.

It's really not the EU's place to start dictating to the Irish government that it should spend money on projects it cannot justify!

There are also on going costs with maintaining and running unused rail lines as can be seen from the current WRC.

I think a lot of continental Europeans especially from countries with dense populations like Belgium and the Netherlands would probably by default think a railway is a great idea because they have no experience of life in a very low density car-focused rural area. Even the most rural areas of some countries are densely developed into towns and villages where as in Ireland it is just not the case.

I would suspect that's why the petition has been somewhat successful in getting an audience.

I think some people are over focused on rail. Bear in mind that the type of trains we use are not much different to a bus - diesel engine under the floor. So I really struggle to see the environmental argument in favour of them vs a bus when you've low passenger numbers and scattered populations.

SpaceTime

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can not see the point of spending money on rail in the region until it is more populated. It won't be more populated until it has more facilities and access roads and jobs.

We cannot even get certain industry into the region due to the lack of high voltage electricity supply lines. I'm told this might be rectified with construction of new lines beginning 2016:eek:, disturbingly this is not because they want to bring high phase power to North connaught but because the government want to use electricity that will be generated in Belmullet from that date :rolleyes:

Boston Scientific apparently chose to expand in Galway city over Castlebar simply due to the lack of High phase power available at that time.

Enda Kenny should be ashamed that an EU committee has to investigate why he has not spent money that they are willing to fund for a region he comes from, especially when he knows whats lacking.

That's not unusual anywhere in the world to be honest. You don't tend to bring in huge power lines to small towns for the craic. That's why major industry is usually found in clusters near big centres of population.

The scale of power infrastructure around say Cork City and Harbour or Dublin's industrial areas simply can't be put into every town and village. Countries need big urban hubs to function and I really think Ireland gets bogged down trying to do everything everywhere.

You just can't build that kind of infrastructure to every town and village. Even from a visual and environment point of view it wouldn't be desirable and it isn't done anywhere else either.

They would also need a pool of me people to recruit from with certain skills etc

Big urban centres and rural areas are always going to be different in focus!

Getting appropriate infrastructure into western small / medium towns like access to very fast broadband and natural gas would be more useful and ensuring that there were technology / light industry sites ready to go with adequate infrastructure would make more sense that trying to replicate massive industrial power infrastructure.

View

murphaph wrote: »

People didn't build houses adjacent to stations like kiltimagh, they built one offs, away from existing villages.

As a result of a default "decision" to allow such one-off house building. Make another decision and you get a different housing growth pattern.

notharrypotter

As a result of a default "decision" to allow such one-off house building

Make another decision and you get a different housing growth pattern

In rural Ireland the "Default" decision has to be to permit regular one off houses.

Its now too late to change this.

Our political system actively encourages this as it promotes client ism "ah sure didn't he get the planning for ..."

Our resources are then spread too thinly to be effective.

But the system continues because no one has any interest in fixing it.

sydneybound

SpaceTime wrote: »

improve the road from Galway to Sligo even if not to motorway spec and from Sligo

Really need to improve parts of the Sligo to Galway road, in particular the stretch 20k north of Tubbercurry and to south of it. Bad and dangerous pieces of road, also it would link up well with Knock airport.

In fairness Knock gets badly needed tourists into the West and is standing on its own two feet. I don't see why the government shouldn't support it to a greater extent. Even last month when we had great weather it recorded very high numbers.

http://galwayindependent.com/20130818/business/major-increase-in-passengers-using-knock-S23034.html

Regardless of people's views on why it was built etc I believe we should all get behind the airport for the benefit of the West.

skafish

Deleted User wrote: »

Enda Kenny should be ashamed

We agree on this much at least:P

murphaph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boston Scientific apparently chose to expand in Galway city over Castlebar simply due to the lack of High phase power available at that time.

Enda Kenny should be ashamed that an EU committee has to investigate why he has not spent money that they are willing to fund for a region he comes from, especially when he knows whats lacking.

Since when is Galway not in the west? Your problem seems to be that you feel your little corner of Ireland has been hard done by, not that the entire west of Ireland has been somehow neglected (which it hasn't really).

Kenny is a twat on many levels but I would respect the fact, if it were true, that he hasn't sought to prioritise his fiefdom over another.

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

Since when is Galway not in the west?

Probably went over your head but i never said Galway was not in the West.
Point been that lots of industry cannot setup in the west of Ireland(in reasonably populated areas) even if it wanted to, the infrastructure simply is not there.

opiniated

Deleted User wrote: »

The EU are sending its regional development committee to Ireland to investigate why the government are unwilling to spend or apply for available infrastructural funds for the west and North west of Ireland(Not Limerick, Cork etc).

This appears to be getting unusually low attention in the media, its obviously embarrassing for them that the EU has to point this out. It also appears to be a continuation of the last governments policy during the boom. The bigger question is why do the politicians from Donegal to Galway allow this to happen so freely ?

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1193-eu-has-to-beg-government-to-seek-funds-for-the-west

I can't answer for Galway, but in Donegal, I suspect that the fact that both both of the main parties had X number of "safe" seats, with the same politicians elected because of "loyalty to the party", rather than the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the TDs!.

In Donegal, at least, there's been a sea-change in Politics.
How effective any TD can be, given the economic problems in the Country right now, is another question, though!

The next election will be interesting! Will the electorate become disenchanted with their new TDs? Time will tell, I suppose.

SpaceTime

The thing is that people on this thread are assuming that Castlebar etc have "reasonable population sizes"


Castlebar is a small town by EU standards. It has about 12,000 at a push including hinterland which for example is basically the population of say one of Galway's suburbs.

I don't see massive power infrastructure in similarity sized remote towns in western France or Scotland either.

Also the EU hasn't sent anyone. The European parliament has responded to a petition raised online by locals.

The decision making on money spending really doesn't happen in the European Parliament it happens at the Commission which is the body insisting we cut spending. The parliament has some "codecision" powers but it is not an executive body. The main powers it has are of oversight, investigation and suggesting legislation. Its a fairly underpowered parliament in most respects.

There is a lot of media misunderstanding of what the difference between the EU Parliament raising an issue and an EU policy decision is.

There are very very few EU funds that do not require the government to cough up a large % of co-funding too. They typically would need to find 10 to 50% of the project so I can't see that happening given that there is no cash in the exchequer and spending is being cut.

If the EU wants to pay 100% apply away!

SpaceTime they are all valid points, .... First of all im not talking about "massive power infrastructure" im talking about enough electricity to keep more than one factory supplied at the same time, not unreasonable.

We either keep our larger towns viable or else forget about them.

If you take a town like Castlebar(or several other Irish towns, LetterKenny, Carrick, Longford, Sligo etc) which during the boom had a population 50% higher. Its population is now down to 11- 12K

1) It now has hundreds of large semi D houses available at less than 100K. A third of there cost in Dublin.
2)An Institute of Technology
3)Two empty Serviced Industrial Parks
4)An airport with several international flights per day just 20 minutes away.
5)A large hospital
6)Small classroom sizes etc

It has many advantages you would think, but A town like this is at a balancing point, Any further job losses each of the above will dwindle and eventually close causing further job losses having a further knock on effect to the others viability. If a hospital or Airport or I.T. close down they do not open up again.

A small investment in infrastructure to improve broadband and electrical connectivity can at least mean that if a company decides to setup in a town like Castlebar they can. At the moment with current infrastructure not all companies can. For a company a smaller town means they can employ people on less wages as living costs are less, with less distances to travel to work, and workers having better quality of living.

Or we can decide to forget about regional development leave infrastructure in the west and North west as it is let the provincial towns get smaller and smaller as they become less and less viable. This will create a further move to Dublin, pushing the property bubble that has again started in Dublin. Which means higher wage demands, which makes the country less and less viable as a manufacturing base.

I know for sure some of you would hate to see another 140K Mayo people descend on the capital. , never mind the Rossies...

ardmacha

They typically would need to find 10 to 50% of the project so I can't see that happening given that there is no cash in the exchequer and spending is being cut.

I don't see why not, 40% of an expenditure comes straight back to the government in the form of income taxes, VAT, PRSI etc. Anything of any use for which the EU pays half should be proceeded with.

woodoo

Letterkenny now has a larger population than Sligo. I'm not from Donegal but i visit quite often, it is part of this country and deserves to be connected well to the rest of it. Vast improvements are needed to the main roads from Letterkenny to Dublin and Letterkenny to Galway via Sligo. The road between Sligo and Galway is awful too.

notharrypotter

An Institute of Technology

Like the Tipperary institute?

Its an annex of GMIT not a full IT.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

Like the Tipperary institute?

Its an annex of GMIT not a full IT.

:eek: Yes we know, GMIT stands for Galway Mayo Institute of Technology !!. The clue is in the name:D

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If you take a town like Castlebar(or several other Irish towns, LetterKenny, Carrick, Longford, Sligo etc) which during the boom had a population 50% higher. Its population is now down to 11- 12K

1) It now has hundreds of large semi D houses available at less than 100K. A third of there cost in Dublin.
2)An Institute of Technology
3)Two empty Serviced Industrial Parks
4)An airport with several international flights per day just 20 minutes away.
5)A large hospital
6)Small classroom sizes etc

It has many advantages you would think, but A town like this is at a balancing point, Any further job losses each of the above will dwindle and eventually close causing further job losses having a further knock on effect to the others viability. If a hospital or Airport or I.T. close down they do not open up again.

A small investment in infrastructure to improve broadband and electrical connectivity can at least mean that if a company decides to setup in a town like Castlebar they can. At the moment with current infrastructure not all companies can. For a company a smaller town means they can employ people on less wages as living costs are less, with less distances to travel to work, and workers having better quality of living.

Or we can decide to forget about regional development leave infrastructure in the west and North west as it is let the provincial towns get smaller and smaller as they become less and less viable. This will create a further move to Dublin, pushing the property bubble that has again started in Dublin. Which means higher wage demands, which makes the country less and less viable as a manufacturing base.

I know for sure some of you would hate to see another 140K Mayo people descend on the capital. , never mind the Rossies...

mayomaffia - the CSO suggests there were 10,287 people living in Castlebar in 2002 and 10,655 in 2006 and 12,318 in 2011

Much of what you are suggesting is a build it using borrowed money and they will come attitude - it is a big part of what got us in the trouble we are in now and one of the reasons you can pick up a semi d for 100k.

Infrastructural improvements are going ahead in the west such as the M17/M18 which will hopefully go ahead next year.

The news articles are spin from a lobby group that want to throw good money after bad.

SpaceTime

woodoo wrote: »

Letterkenny now has a larger population than Sligo. I'm not from Donegal but i visit quite often, it is part of this country and deserves to be connected well to the rest of it. Vast improvements are needed to the main roads from Letterkenny to Dublin and Letterkenny to Galway via Sligo. The road between Sligo and Galway is awful too.

On the "Atlantic Corridor"
They need to complete the M20 from Cork to Limerick and M18 from Limerick to Galway

The N17 from Galway to Sligo should be upgraded to at least decent single carriageway and the same with the N15(N13 branch) that takes you to Letterkenny from Sligo.

One option that could be used is to do what's done in rural parts of Spain.

They build a good quality single carriageway but put in double-wide bridges so that all of it or sections of it can be upgraded to dual-carriageway / motorway with relatively minimal disruption and far less investment at a later stage.

All you have to do is lay a second carriageway and and make a few tweaks to junctions.

Cork-Limerick and Galway-Shannon-Ennis-Limerick probably need the motorway capacity but the Northwest really needs a good, safe road with possibly DC around Sligo and between Ballybofey and Letterkenny with the options of upgrading more of it as money becomes available / capacity is required.

Something like decent quality single-carriageway N roads with passing lanes that alternate to either side every say 10km would make a lot of sense.
Not the 1+2 stuff they built say on the Mallow Road in Cork, but just regular open single carriageway with passing lanes.


At the very least, if the money for major upgrades is not available, I think the NRA needs to target investment into the dangerous stretches of that route.

There are quite a few between Sligo and Galway and between Cork and Limerick in particular. I'm not 100% familiar with the state of the roads through Donegal, but I am sure there are probably a few tight stretches.

Adding passing lanes where possible would be very useful too!

notharrypotter

Yes we know, GMIT stands for Galway Mayo Institute of Technology !!.

Yes we have one too.

TLIT,
or
LITT

Its an annex not a full IT.

K-9

SpaceTime wrote: »

On the "Atlantic Corridor"
They need to complete the M20 from Cork to Limerick and M18 from Limerick to Galway

The N17 from Galway to Sligo should be upgraded to at least decent single carriageway and the same with the N15(N13 branch) that takes you to Letterkenny from Sligo.

One option that could be used is to do what's done in rural parts of Spain.

They build a good quality single carriageway but put in double-wide bridges so that all of it or sections of it can be upgraded to dual-carriageway / motorway with relatively minimal disruption and far less investment at a later stage.

All you have to do is lay a second carriageway and and make a few tweaks to junctions.

Cork-Limerick and Galway-Shannon-Ennis-Limerick probably need the motorway capacity but the Northwest really needs a good, safe road with possibly DC around Sligo and between Ballybofey and Letterkenny with the options of upgrading more of it as money becomes available / capacity is required.

Something like decent quality single-carriageway N roads with passing lanes that alternate to either side every say 10km would make a lot of sense.
Not the 1+2 stuff they built say on the Mallow Road in Cork, but just regular open single carriageway with passing lanes.


At the very least, if the money for major upgrades is not available, I think the NRA needs to target investment into the dangerous stretches of that route.

There are quite a few between Sligo and Galway and between Cork and Limerick in particular. I'm not 100% familiar with the state of the roads through Donegal, but I am sure there are probably a few tight stretches.

Adding passing lanes where possible would be very useful too!

I remember my teacher talking about the Atlantic Corridor 30 years ago and while parts of it improved I'd wonder why it hasn't been all been upgraded at this stage. In fairness to Donegal it has put money in over that period and it tends to be the No.1 priority, even to the detriment of the Letterkenny to Dublin road. Sligo seemed to put the emphasis on Dublin with the Atlantic corridor looking like an afterthought.

woodoo

SpaceTime wrote: »

On the "Atlantic Corridor"
They need to complete the M20 from Cork to Limerick and M18 from Limerick to Galway

The N17 from Galway to Sligo should be upgraded to at least decent single carriageway and the same with the N15(N13 branch) that takes you to Letterkenny from Sligo.

One option that could be used is to do what's done in rural parts of Spain.

They build a good quality single carriageway but put in double-wide bridges so that all of it or sections of it can be upgraded to dual-carriageway / motorway with relatively minimal disruption and far less investment at a later stage.

All you have to do is lay a second carriageway and and make a few tweaks to junctions.

Cork-Limerick and Galway-Shannon-Ennis-Limerick probably need the motorway capacity but the Northwest really needs a good, safe road with possibly DC around Sligo and between Ballybofey and Letterkenny with the options of upgrading more of it as money becomes available / capacity is required.

Something like decent quality single-carriageway N roads with passing lanes that alternate to either side every say 10km would make a lot of sense.
Not the 1+2 stuff they built say on the Mallow Road in Cork, but just regular open single carriageway with passing lanes.


At the very least, if the money for major upgrades is not available, I think the NRA needs to target investment into the dangerous stretches of that route.

There are quite a few between Sligo and Galway and between Cork and Limerick in particular. I'm not 100% familiar with the state of the roads through Donegal, but I am sure there are probably a few tight stretches.

Adding passing lanes where possible would be very useful too!

Alot of good points there.

The roads through donegal from sligo to letterkenny are good in parts but really bad in others. There was plans for a bypass of ballybofey and stranorlar with the bypass starting at the bottom of that steep hill after barnes gap and then joining the letterkenny road at kilross. That would be an excellent developments as it would bypass a bottle neck in ballybofey and at the same time cut out some horrible bendy narrow roads.

K-9

woodoo wrote: »

Alot of good points there.

The roads through donegal from sligo to letterkenny are good in parts but really bad in others. There was plans for a bypass of ballybofey and stranorlar with the bypass starting at the bottom of that steep hill after barnes gap and then joining the letterkenny road at kilross. That would be an excellent developments as it would bypass a bottle neck in ballybofey and at the same time cut out some horrible bendy narrow roads.

That is next up and IIRC land was bought to facilitate it, and the route decided, then the money dried up. The only work left on the Atlantic corridor through Donegal would be upgrading the Letterkenny Derry road after the Dual Carriageway, a lot of that was done 30 years ago at this stage.

antoobrien

SpaceTime wrote: »

On the "Atlantic Corridor"
They need to complete the M20 from Cork to Limerick

Hasn't made it to (final) route selection, so we're 3-5 years from starting.

SpaceTime wrote: »

M18 from Limerick to Galway

This is due to start either this year or next year, depending on when the companies involved can get the ducks lined up.

SpaceTime wrote: »

The N17 from Galway to Sligo should be upgraded to at least decent single carriageway

Galway to Sligo will be done in several stages. There are two parts of this already done, the Claremorris bypass & Knock to Claremorris. The next phase is to link the M17/Tuam bypass to the current Claremorris bypass (at emerging route stage), then go from Knock to Sligo via Charlestown & Tobbercurry

I believe Tuam - Claremorris is supposed to be DC (but don't hold me to that), with the rest of the road to be the same standard as the Claremorris - Knock Rd.

SpaceTime wrote: »

One option that could be used is to do what's done in rural parts of Spain.

They build a good quality single carriageway but put in double-wide bridges so that all of it or sections of it can be upgraded to dual-carriageway / motorway with relatively minimal disruption and far less investment at a later stage.

All you have to do is lay a second carriageway and and make a few tweaks to junctions.

Don't say that, we're not allowed forward plan for traffic in this country because it "induces" car use (the rather idiotic argument against the Galway bypass, which totally ignores the fact that employment in Galway is now centred on the city, where 20 years ago it wasn't).

opiniated

K-9 wrote: »

That is next up and IIRC land was bought to facilitate it, and the route decided, then the money dried up. The only work left on the Atlantic corridor through Donegal would be upgrading the Letterkenny Derry road after the Dual Carriageway, a lot of that was done 30 years ago at this stage.

Aye, and at the rate they're going, it could be thirty before before it's finished!

rumour

Rail

Motorway


It does look rather vacant in the north west.

rumour

rumour wrote: »

It does look rather vacant in the north west.

Draw a line from Dundalk to Galway and It looks like another country, reminds me of that picture showing the difference of North and South Korea at night:D. Cromwells attitude of "To hell or to Connaught" appears as alive to today as it was in 1652.

You can take Sligo and Galway airports out of that as well they are closed, Donegal may as well be closed also for all it does.

skafish

Deleted User wrote: »

You can take Sligo and Galway airports out of that as well they are closed, Donegal may as well be closed also for all it does.

I agree. But who thought the North West of the country would need 4 airports? What kind of thinking gave rise to the opinion that Galway, Mayo, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal and Roscommon would need as many airports as London?

skafish

skafish wrote: »

I agree. But who thought the North West of the country would need 4 airports? What kind of thinking gave rise to the opinion that Galway, Mayo, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal and Roscommon would need as many airports as London?

some idiot in power obviously(Castlebar even had there own small airport once, small plane drove into town one evening and parked outside the pub ). Everybody in the region can be in Knock at a max of 2 hours(majority within an hour). They just need some government backing now akin to the other airports.

Icepick

rumour wrote: »

Rail

Motorway


It does look rather vacant in the north west.

Yes, it does.

notharrypotter

Lovely map.

Just wondering however how current is it?

hint: look at Laois/Offaly

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

Draw a line from Dundalk to Galway and It looks like another country

...most of it is

I firmly believe that Galway and indeed Sligo should receive string infrastructural investment, but you want more....you want investment in every 2 horse town with 10,000 people. It's not justifiable and not at all sustainable. The NSS should have stopped at Gateways and those should have been prioritised.

People simply CANNOT expect the state to bring jobs to them. Even RICH nations like Germany have huge regions where people generally leave and migrate to the cities to find work. A German born in such a region doesn't expect industry to come to him, he expects that he will have to go to the industrial centres. What is so wrong with this?

It happens in Germany which has a very decentralised set of demographics...lots of cities of 100k and not many over 1m, yet the population is 80 million or so. I imagine in more centralised countries the effects are even more pronounced (the likes of France and Spain certainly). I know for a fact that rural Denmark (similar population and size to Ireland) is exactly the same...folks move to Copenhagen or wherever to find work as there is typically none where they come from.

View

rumour wrote: »

Rail

Motorway


It does look rather vacant in the north west.

What do you expect?

The amount of infrastructure built depends on the population base it serves.

There is no point in building motorways all over Leitrim if the existing roads are - comparatively speaking - fairly lightly trafficced.

Galway & Limerick are the main population centres in the west. They and possibly Sligo (for geographic reasons) are the only places that it makes sense to put serious infrastructural investment into unless something dramatically changes (e.g. Some firm decides it is going to make, let's say, Westport the centre of a multi-billion Euro investment which results in a "Silicon valley" style overnight expansion of the town).

woodoo

murphaph wrote: »

...most of it is

I firmly believe that Galway and indeed Sligo should receive string infrastructural investment, but you want more....you want investment in every 2 horse town with 10,000 people. It's not justifiable and not at all sustainable. The NSS should have stopped at Gateways and those should have been prioritised.

People simply CANNOT expect the state to bring jobs to them. Even RICH nations like Germany have huge regions where people generally leave and migrate to the cities to find work. A German born in such a region doesn't expect industry to come to him, he expects that he will have to go to the industrial centres. What is so wrong with this?

It happens in Germany which has a very decentralised set of demographics...lots of cities of 100k and not many over 1m, yet the population is 80 million or so. I imagine in more centralised countries the effects are even more pronounced (the likes of France and Spain certainly). I know for a fact that rural Denmark (similar population and size to Ireland) is exactly the same...folks move to Copenhagen or wherever to find work as there is typically none where they come from.

I'm sure they at least have a motorway or dual carriageway bringing you to each of the regions. Nobody is asking for motorways at every turn but there should be a decent road connecting the regions.

One decent road going from Cork to Limerick to Galway and on up to Sligo and through letterkenny to Derry. There was talk of improving the road from Dublin to Derry too. That is all that would be needed and the rest can remain national roads. That would connect the entire country. At least giving places like Sligo, Donegal and the North West a chance.

longhalloween

You have to remember that the population of Ireland is half the size of London. It's entirely unsustainable to have services running to every corner of the country.

Ireland is never going to be a world leader in infrastructure if the current planning system remains. You'd often see a house built half way up a mountain and wonder what idiot allowed that to happen.

markpb

woodoo wrote: »

One decent road going from Cork to Limerick to Galway and on up to Sligo and through letterkenny to Derry. There was talk of improving the road from Dublin to Derry too. That is all that would be needed and the rest can remain national roads. That would connect the entire country. At least giving places like Sligo, Donegal and the North West a chance.

The thing about this is that it sounds entirely plausible and maybe it is but the logic is backwards. You don't build infrastructure because there it links points on a map, because other parts of the country has some or because you feel hard done by. You build it because there's a proven demand for it. If the number of people are using the existing road exceed the design capacity, you build a dual carriageway. If the number if people using the dual carriageway exceeds its design capacity, you build a motorway. You don't build a motorway because you want more blue lines on the map.

The other problem I have is that people blindly think its a good idea to link big towns / cities but it's not that simple. People travel en masse from towns to bigger towns, not between towns of roughly equal size. Yes some people will but not necessarily enough to warrant the standard of road you'd think.

View

woodoo wrote: »

I'm sure they at least have a motorway or dual carriageway bringing you to each of the regions. Nobody is asking for motorways at every turn but there should be a decent road connecting the regions.

Maybe there should be but they all cost money to build which we don't have.

Look at the map of the motorways above. All the roads are basically "Dublin Roads", nowhere else, not even Cork has any.

Go back twenty years and even Dublin didn't have that level of infrastructure - we were broke in a way today's "being broke" seems decadent.

murphaph

woodoo wrote: »

I'm sure they at least have a motorway or dual carriageway bringing you to each of the regions. Nobody is asking for motorways at every turn but there should be a decent road connecting the regions.

One decent road going from Cork to Limerick to Galway and on up to Sligo and through letterkenny to Derry. There was talk of improving the road from Dublin to Derry too. That is all that would be needed and the rest can remain national roads. That would connect the entire country. At least giving places like Sligo, Donegal and the North West a chance.

I have no problem with any of that. I clearly stated that the Gateways should have been prioritised but many people want funding spread much more thinly than that so "their" town gets something. The N4 is actually a decent road by the way, but I would like to see it dualled all the way to Sligo personally.

The priority in your list of course would be the M20 between Cork and Limerick, given the traffic volumes and poor state of the current road, right?

Godge

rumour wrote: »

Rail


It does look rather vacant in the north west.

You haven't included the motorways in the North which would give the map a different complexion. Donegal wouldn't look much different to Kerry or Wexford then.