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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [planning decision pending]

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Comments



  • 270WIN wrote: »
    was in south court tonight...dual carriage way from adare to rathkeale...single road from rathkeale to foynes...how in the name of god is this of benefit to foynes!!!
    The existing N69 & R518 are narrow, windy and undulate and in the case of the N69 have villages and a dangerous bridge between Foynes and the motorway network.

    I hope by dual carraigeway the Adare bypass element is a 120km/h motorway and none of this 'HQDC' nonsenese




  • Hopefully the 'grannies' stay off the single carriage bit. Otherwise no time will be saved.




  • this new road should be re labelled the adare bypass and stop calling it the foynes to limerick road...

    the adare element will be a 100km dual carriageway

    a lot of people there tonight saying that this is a con job...foynes part of road is being downgraded already..its all about adare




  • 270WIN wrote: »
    this new road should be re labelled the adare bypass and stop calling it the foynes to limerick road...

    the adare element will be a 100km dual carriageway

    a lot of people there tonight saying that this is a con job...foynes part of road is being downgraded already..its all about adare

    Don't you mean the N21 from Adare to Rathkeale will be dual carriageway? Which is a bit more than just the Adare bypass.
    It's called the Foynes to Limerick road because it's taking port traffic off the N69 and putting it on the new road. If the N21 wasn't included then it would all have been single carriageway. The N21 justifies dual carriageway due to traffic volumes, the rest doesn't. Therefore the Foynes part isn't being downgraded.




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    Wonder how this'll be numbered. Will the existing N69 be downgraded? I'm thinking not as it's a tourist route, no?

    In which case the new Rathkeale-Foynes road will need a new number.

    I reckon it'll be a motorway from Adare to the Rathkeale bypass.

    I would imagine the new N69 will begin at the future junction on the Rathkeale bypass before linking up with the existing N69 in the vicinity of Foynes. The current route from its junction with the N18 near the Irish Cement facility at Castlemungret would be downgraded to a Regional road in line with the established policy in relation to superseded national routes.

    I think it'll be M21 as far as Rathkeale too.


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  • 270WIN wrote: »
    this new road should be re labelled the adare bypass and stop calling it the foynes to limerick road...

    the adare element will be a 100km dual carriageway

    a lot of people there tonight saying that this is a con job...foynes part of road is being downgraded already..its all about adare

    A con job? Really?

    I think it's the most sensible, rational route option as it utilises existing infrastructure which has the capacity to accommodate extra traffic volumes i.e. the M20.

    It will provide a new high quality route for both N21 traffic and Foynes bound traffic. The new N69 element will more than likely comprise of a 100kph single carriageway spur providing fast, safe, direct access to the port and village.

    Building two new large scale, greenfield National road projects in relatively close proximity would have been an obscene waste of money!




  • This could be numbered the N34

    The present N69 isn't the N69 because of Foynes but rather it's a tourist route/scenic route and also the Tralee/Listowel/Tarbert route

    Will be interesting to see alright.




  • Ha, some shambles. The whole point of this was meant to be an upgrading of the Foynes Limerick route. Paid for entirely by Europe. What we have gotten is an Adare bypass with a small spur route for Foynes. The government appear to have pulled the wool over the Eyes of the lads in Europe.

    The bottleneck in Newcastle West will be far worse than Adare now as well.




  • As long as the spur road off the Adare bypass is future proofed that it could be expanded to a dual carriageway if the traffic numbers between Foynes and Limerick increased. Other than that it seems like a sensible approach.




  • YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    Ha, some shambles. The whole point of this was meant to be an upgrading of the Foynes Limerick route. Paid for entirely by Europe. What we have gotten is an Adare bypass with a small spur route for Foynes. The government appear to have pulled the wool over the Eyes of the lads in Europe.

    The bottleneck in Newcastle West will be far worse than Adare now as well.

    All of the above are steps in the right direction. NCW is a bottleneck as it is. Those commuting to Limerick will thank the gov if they did indeed pull the wool!


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  • guylikeme wrote: »
    YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    Ha, some shambles. The whole point of this was meant to be an upgrading of the Foynes Limerick route. Paid for entirely by Europe. What we have gotten is an Adare bypass with a small spur route for Foynes. The government appear to have pulled the wool over the Eyes of the lads in Europe.

    The bottleneck in Newcastle West will be far worse than Adare now as well.

    All of the above are steps in the right direction. NCW is a bottleneck as it is. Those commuting to Limerick will thank the gov if they did indeed pull the wool!

    Any commuters through Adare yes . It really won't benefit N69 users too much and now I'm sure the road will get less funding for a road that is already in very poor repair.




  • guylikeme wrote: »
    All of the above are steps in the right direction. NCW is a bottleneck as it is. Those commuting to Limerick will thank the gov if they did indeed pull the wool!

    Not those who commute on the N69 I'd say though.

    Trucks won't use the new road if they are heading up the west coast or into the city. The idiocy of not having a direct access point to the city from the N21 will also be magnified now as well.




  • YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    Ha, some shambles. The whole point of this was meant to be an upgrading of the Foynes Limerick route. Paid for entirely by Europe. What we have gotten is an Adare bypass with a small spur route for Foynes. The government appear to have pulled the wool over the Eyes of the lads in Europe.
    YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    Any commuters through Adare yes . It really won't benefit N69 users too much and now I'm sure the road will get less funding for a road that is already in very poor repair.

    It was never meant to improve the N69 for commuters. It's purpose is and always has been to take HGVs off the N69 and get them to the motorway network on a better road.
    Treepole wrote: »
    Not those who commute on the N69 I'd say though.

    Trucks won't use the new road if they are heading up the west coast or into the city. The idiocy of not having a direct access point to the city from the N21 will also be magnified now as well.

    Why won't trucks use the new road? Wide straight single lane 100Km/h road and dual carriage way which has junctions with the N20, N18 and M7 versus a narrow winding road with some dodgy bridges which goes through the center of 3 villages. The M7/N18 junction is also only 2km from the N18 dock road junction.

    Also many more HGVs will be going East and South than those crossing the river.




  • If it was never meant to help n69 commuters why have they gone out of their way to help commuters bypass adare I wonder.




  • YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    If it was never meant to help n69 commuters why have they gone out of their way to help commuters bypass adare I wonder.

    The N21 was far more worthy of relief and also removing haulage traffic from the N69 should improve travel times for commuters on this road.




  • YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    If it was never meant to help n69 commuters why have they gone out of their way to help commuters bypass adare I wonder.

    Adare is being bypassed because the road is inadequate, is carrying traffic levels well over it's design capacity and is a major bottleneck on a strategic national route!

    You can also factor in the pathetic situation where circa 15,000 vehicles per day trundle through the streets of a picturesque heritage village!




  • That looks like a very good route choice.

    Economical in that it achieves a heck of a lot of badly lacking infrastructure in a very well thought out way :

    HGV traffic from Foynes to the rest of the road network.

    Adare bypass : arguably Ireland's worst current bottleneck and hard to comprehend that it has been in such a state of chaos for so long without getting addressed.

    Big improvement to the N21 making it a quick drive now as far as Rathkeale. This is the main route between Dublin and Kerry and, among other benefits, improving journey times here is going to help the Kerry tourism industry.

    A route from Foynes to the motorway around Limerick which follows the old route (Askeaton, Clarina, Mungret) would only achieve one of the above, leaving the others still as outstanding and badly needed.

    Its good to see a bit of logical thinking going on here.

    Imagine if the northerly route was chosen and we eventually did the badly needed improvements to the N21. Just think how easy it would be to look back in 20 years time and say how stupid the lack of planning was back in those bad old days of 2015.

    Celebrate getting this decision right.




  • Absolutely beyond belief that anyone can be complaining about this scheme.

    It's win win in almost all aspects.




  • The strangest thing about the people complaining about a con job is that none of the 4 options followed the N69 into the Dock Road and three of them bypassed Adare.
    Is the fact that they made the decision to go with the route that benefitted the most people a surprise to anyone else?




  • Vanquished wrote: »
    Adare is being bypassed because the road is inadequate, is carrying traffic levels well over it's design capacity and is a major bottleneck on a strategic national route!

    You can also factor in the pathetic situation where circa 15,000 vehicles per day trundle through the streets of a picturesque heritage village!

    Your point would be valid if that was the aim of the project.
    If you look at the title of the thread you might have a clue as to what it was supposed to be about.


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  • Treepole wrote: »
    Your point would be valid if that was the aim of the project.
    If you look at the title of the thread you might have a clue as to what it was supposed to be about.

    The aim of the project is to create a route between the port of Foynes and the motorway network which has the capacity to take extra HGV traffic to allow the port to expand and to remove this traffic from the N69.
    This route does all of this while also bypassing Adare and upgrading a large section of the N21.

    And while the thread might have N69 in the title, the project doesn't. It's the 'Foynes to Limerick Road Improvement Scheme'.




  • Look the Government have quiet cleverly (and blatantly) used Foynes as an excuse to get the EU to pay for a different project which has been promised for many years.

    This project is obviously far more about bypassing Adare than it is about providing a link to Foynes. It actually suits me much better that it wasn't the red route that was chosen as it would have affected my family farm, but as a solution for Foynes it was the best route.




  • Treepole wrote: »
    Your point would be valid if that was the aim of the project.
    If you look at the title of the thread you might have a clue as to what it was supposed to be about.

    I think you will find that the thread title was decided upon by a poster and not anyone with any influence on the selection of the route for an infrastructural project! :rolleyes:




  • Delighted with the preferred route option too. The fact there will be continuous DC to Rathkeale is great and hopefully will shave an average 15 mins off my regular Tralee/Dublin journeys.

    It will be interesting to see if traffic flows through NCW will deteriorate upon the opening of the improved stretch as has been the case with other bottlenecks once new motorway/DC sections ended prior to those towns/villages. (eg I don't think Adare was ever that bad when you had the relatively slower moving traffic coming from Patrickswell prior to the opening of the M20 but now traffic often has to suddenly go from 120kph to a halt sometimes before the motorway even ends.)




  • Treepole wrote: »
    Look the Government have quiet cleverly (and blatantly) used Foynes as an excuse to get the EU to pay for a different project which has been promised for many years.

    This project is obviously far more about bypassing Adare than it is about providing a link to Foynes. It actually suits me much better that it wasn't the red route that was chosen as it would have affected my family farm, but as a solution for Foynes it was the best route.

    I hate those clever governments...




  • YeaYeaSure wrote: »
    If it was never meant to help n69 commuters why have they gone out of their way to help commuters bypass adare I wonder.

    Because using the TEN-T network funded by Europe to bypass Adare primarily and give a decent enough link to Foynes is one of the cleverest things the government/NRA have done in recent times.




  • My brother and his family got notice today that the proposed road will be going right through their home. To say they are devastated is an understatement. Has been the family home for over 70 years, 8 years ago they completely renovated the house. Thousands has been spent landscaping and building stone walls around it. Eldest just started school in Croagh, they are at a loss now as to where they can buy and build again. I know some one has to disturbed but it's such a shame for them.




  • My brother and his family got notice today that the proposed road will be going right through their home. To say they are devastated is an understatement. Has been the family home for over 70 years, 8 years ago they completely renovated the house. Thousands has been spent landscaping and building stone walls around it. Eldest just started school in Croagh, they are at a loss now as to where they can buy and build again. I know some one has to disturbed but it's such a shame for them.

    That's rough, it's a shame when people who are so settled in an area have to be moved for these projects. I hope they are well compensated anyway and they find an even better location to build.




  • New route is going through my place of work.....uncertainty of what will happen next is scary!!


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  • Aren't we were still at the stage that the corridor is still 300m wide. I'm pretty sure that the final alignment, which will only be 30-40m wide, hasn't been decided yet and these properties may still be up to 250m away from the new road.

    EDIT

    Indeed it still is 300m wide.

    The preferred route corridor is indicative and 300m wide, within which the road alignment is likely to be developed. Junction locations and types will be developed during the route development process. The purpose of the public display is to inform the public of the preferred route corridor and to afford the opportunity for the public to engage in the process and to raise queries, concerns and comments for consideration as part of the detailed design of the road alignment within the preferred route corridor.

    People may have been told that they are in the corridor, but they've taken it up incorrectly if they think that definitely means that their property is to be demolished.


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