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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [planning decision pending]

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Comments



  • What is the timeframe for a decision on this?




  • pajoguy wrote: »
    What is the timeframe for a decision on this?
    I'd optimistically say 4-6 months for a decision on it.




  • It appears as if the Inspector has yet to conclude her report so unlikely there will be any decision from ABP until 2022. Will this project be completed in time for the Ryder Cup if there is a Judicial Review taken (assuming the project is approved)?





  • I don't think there's any realistic way this road will be built by the time of the Ryder Cup. Even if ABP approved it, the inevitable judicial reviews will last for years.

    Compare the timescale to the M28 - submitted to ABP in May 2017, approved in July 2018, and the (vexatious) judicial reviews only ended two months ago. Construction on the M28 won't start until 2024 (6 years after ABP approval) because of all the delays. It won't be open until 2027 (9 years after ABP approval).

    The M21 hasn't even gotten to the judicial review stage, and there's less than five years to the Adare Ryder Cup. It's not looking particularly likely to be open by then.





  • What inevitable JR? They're actually very rare when it comes to road construction. The M28 is not representative of what normally happens. And from what I remember of the submissions there's no organised resistance to the scheme and the objections were mainly from homeowners along the route.

    The M21 BTW won't need three years of preparatory works. That's another reason that the M28 is different to other schemes.

    Oh and the Ryder Cup starts today, so it's exactly 6 years until Adare 2027, not less than 5.



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  • To take a JR, do you already have to have raised objections earlier in the project, like with standard planning permission only those who made a submission during the relevant period can appeal to ABP? Can someone come from nowhere later to take a JR? If not, it would seem unlikely here as there is no organised group of objectors

    Also, in terms of the Ryder Cup, all that needs to be completed is the Adare Bypass element, not the entire way to Foynes. Even Adare Bypass as far as the Croagh junction and then back to existing N21 would do. That much could be frontloaded and be done in less than 18 months. I'm sure that much will be comfortably done before the Ryder Cup, even if works are still ongoing on the spur to Foynes.





  • Yes, I had forgotten that it was in 2027 now, not 2026.

    I hope you are right and I am wrong, and that this road will sail through the planning process unlike the M28, and I will be pleasantly surprised if it does (especially given the current anti-road zeitgeist).

    Pete_Cavan: My understanding is that under current planning rules, one disgruntled homeowner (or one environmental campaigner who opposes new road construction, no matter where they live in the country) is all it takes to secure a judicial review, and from there it is easy appeals all the way to the Supreme Court. Anyone anywhere in the country can launch a judicial review process after permission is granted, even if they have no link whatsoever to the project.

    Post edited by Aontachtoir on




  • Are you sure that "anyone anywhere" can seek a JR or just those who participated in the process already?





  • Yes, that is my understanding. "Anyone anywhere" can jump in without needing to demonstrate a prior objection. I am not an expert though and would be glad to hear from someone who knows more.





  • You need to have submitted an observation / objection on the planning application in order to take a judicial review. You have 8 weeks from the planning decision to submit the necessary documents with the High Court. There is no restriction on who can submit an observation / objection on the planning application though. It does mean that you must have engaged in the planning application before approval, which somewhat limits who can take a judicial review, but it's a small scale restriction.



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  • Helpful clarification, thank you. You're right that it's a small restriction at best for committed, organised environmental campaigners. There was an interesting article in the Times today about how alarming investors are finding the recent surge in environmentally-based judicial reviews in Ireland, and how it erodes our ability to do business compared to other EU states with efficient planning systems. Intel was the case study, but it applies to others too.

    I think momentum is building for a serious overhaul of the system. If judicial reviews are seriously reined in, we can hope to be driving on the M21 at the time of the Ryder Cup. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised if this project escapes judicial review.





  • Again, stop using the M28 as your point of reference for what happens with road schemes. Judicial reviews are extremely rare on road schemes and are pretty much unheard of on rural schemes.

    The swathe of recent JRs are from NIMBYs in urban areas not wanting SHD apartment developments overlooking their properties

    There is no organised resistance to the M21 scheme and there are no anti M21 FB pages or M21 steering groups.





  • If no "committed, organised environmental campaigners" have engaged in the M21 process, then none can challenge it now. The restriction in that case would not be small, it would actually be enormous. Also, not only do the environmental campaigners have to be committed and organised to mount a JR, they also have to be very well funded. That is unlikely to be the case in rural Limerick, particularly in this case as the vast majority of locals can't wait until the day Adare is bypassed.

    There is not going to be any reining in of the planning system which will effect the process currently ongoing. The M21 will be determined entirely under the existing system, which is probably a good thing for the project. Again, the actual Adare Bypass is short with few major structures, there is still plenty of time to have it built before the Ryder Cup, even with a couple of years delay. If it only started in mid 2025, I'm sure the Adare Bypass element would be well open by summer 2027.





  • Technically someone not involved in the process to date can take a JR if they have a good reason for having not been involved to date, but it’s a high bar to be allowed to do so, so unlikely.

    Where there are CPOs, I’d never rule one out.





  • I can't see who would want to take a JR here unless environmental law has been breached and CSI Rossport are on the case. There has been no organised movement against this scheme unlike the M28. Much of the objection was to the CPO which isn't grounds for a judicial review.





  • Very rarely are the grounds of JR the actual grounds.

    environmental reasons always feature as then the person seeking the JR has cost protection.

    Im not saying there will be a JR, just clarifying a few points. Personally I would love to see it delivered





  • Both An Tasice and Friends of the Irish Environment NGOs raised major objections to the project at the Oral Hearing. Not afraid of taking a judicial review.





  • The M28 debacle happened, and the M21 is subject to the exact same planning system. You don't need a steering group to launch a spurious appeal, just a single individual who stands to gain if the road is stopped, such as a farmer who doesn't want his land or house CPO'd. This happened before - why would it not happen again?

    The M28 had plenty of local support (my home is close to it, and I never met anyone opposed to it) but it still languished in the courts for years. All it takes is one single person to do the same to the M21. You can be sure they will find support from some environmental group somewhere if they do so (such as An Taisce or Friends of the Irish Environment, who raised major objections to the project according to Limerick74).

    Marno, there was no breach of environmental law in the M28 application, but it still spent years in the courts. All that matters is someone standing to gain if the road is delayed or cancelled. If they're angry about the CPOs, then making up environmental claims is the best shot to overturn the permission the CPOs rest on - like in the M28 case, when the Steering Group only discovered how important the flora of Raffeen Quarry was when it was time to launch a judicial review.

    Like I said before, I will be pleasantly surprised if there are no JRs. I very much hope there are none and that it is all in place by 2027. But I think it's brave to so confidently rule out the possibility of a JR when some people will be losing land if this road goes ahead and when a JR on environmental grounds is so easy to secure.

    Edited to fix spelling and reference posters.





  • A JR costs a hell of a lot of money. It is extremely unlikely that any disgruntled farmer will have the money to launch one. The M28 group were able to appeal to a large number of middle class suburban dwellers for funding. The M21 will impact on a much smaller number of people, and most of them will see the benefitsof the road compared to the current traffic jams in Adare. A M21 JR is unlikely to be able to attract significant contributions to fund it.

    Of course a JR is a possibility but the M28 is not a good comparison.





  • We are all assuming ABP grant it. That will be the first hurdle!!



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  • They most likely will





  • Has decision been delayed? Thought a decision was scheduled for this week? Decision now in mid november

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/306146





  • Latest:


    This scheme was published in December 2019. An Bord Pleanala requested additional information which was submitted in September 2020 and also placed on public display. ABP held the Oral Hearing for the scheme over 11 days in February 2021. A decision on planning is expected in Q4 2021. Work is progressing on the Phase 5 (Enabling and Procurement) documents to facilitate early construction of the Adare Bypass in advance of the 2027 European Ryder Cup, assuming statutory approval is achieved.





  • "Early construction of the Adare Bypass" sounds like it could progress as a standalone project. That wouldn't be a good thing, the link to Foynes could be forgotten about. It would be better to have one project with the Adare Bypass phased first.





  • I highly doubt the link to Foynes would be forgotten about, seeing as that is the primary purpose of the scheme. It routes via Adare and the N21 to kill two birds with one stone. The current N69 is already not fit for traffic from the port, never mind when it expands.





  • Both will be done as one project, but I imagine the phasing of that project will allow the Adare Bypass to open while the Foynes access roads are still under construction.





  • I didnt view the Oral Hearing. I assume nothing major came up in that which would put this project in jeoprady. Once the consultants have done their job it should get through planning surely.



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