M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [approved by An Bord Pleanala]

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585325#Comment_119585325

High Court Judicial Review period is 8 weeks from the ABP decision or advertisement of same (whatever is later).

specialbyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585378#Comment_119585378

You're dead right. Don't know why I said it was 4 weeks. I'm certainly praying for a quiet an uneventful few weeks with no trips to the High Court.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585422#Comment_119585422

Well there has been nothing negative in the local media since the decision was announced, so fingers crossed.

DumbBrunette

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/907552/advance-works-on-450-limerick-road-project-to-begin-next-year.html

..

Limerick74

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/judicial-reviews-lodged-relating-to-foynes-road-project/

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119801242#Comment_119801242

Very frustrating. It will be very interesting to see who is behind this and what the grounds are.

marno21

I’ve been waiting for this ever since the Galway Ring Road debacle a few weeks back.

Either disgruntled landowners or the greenies is my bet. Planning reform cannot come quick enough

prunudo

Ireland is grinding to a halt, there needs to be a major change in how everything is done here because red tape, snail pace administration and clerical work is crippling buisness and day to day life.

And its not just roads, every government department (probably bar revenue :) ) is hugely inefficient and needlessly drags out even the simplest of interactions.

I understand the right of people to object but after a glaical abp review we now have the prospect of a much needed infrastructure project being tied up for years in the courts. Its not right and very frustrating.

MICKEYG

There must be some bar a claimant has to meet to get a judicial review. Hopefully it is not just filling out a form.

Seeing as the project is approved, maybe progress can continue on tendering etc. While this is underway?

Aontachtoir

This news is unsurprising, and I have predicted multiple times in this thread that it would occur. I don’t understand why some people thought it wouldn’t. There doesn’t need to be a sustained loud public campaign against a road when anyone, anywhere in the country, can torpedo it with a judicial review.

Because they have become so easy to access, JRs are now de facto a part of the planning process. This has coincided with the rise of an extreme strand of environmentalism, which views construction of almost any new road infrastructure as heresy (or even illegal, as was claimed in Donnchadh Woulfe’s article yesterday in the Irish Times), and a Climate Act which grants them even more tools to stop development. Even the most ragtag group of activists can effortlessly stall a road for years, against the wishes of the local community.

We have known about this problem for a long time and nobody has done anything about it. The solutions are the same: slashing access to JRs and introducing mandatory decision deadlines. A new step will be to amend the Climate Act to specifically exclude designated key national infrastructure from its provisions.

Until that point, no new significant infrastructure will be delivered in this country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802973#Comment_119802973

My understanding is that the only bar is that you need to have been involved in some way earlier in the process, even tangentially. Of course, there is no bar to that, so, for all intents and purposes, anyone anywhere in the country is able to launch a judicial review.

Edit: As the JR process typically grinds on for years, with appeal after appeal after appeal, I doubt they will make much headway on tendering. Open to correction on that.

Chris_5339762

Look to the M28 for the timeline of judicial reviews. High court, appeal to Supreme Court, Supreme Court generally won't be going near it. I don't think it'll stop the road, but it will delay it.

corm500

This country is a joke.

hans aus dtschl

I think some of what you suggest is slightly dangerous because some undeserving things seem to slip into the "strategic infrastructure" bracket since they brought it in. I've seen some wholly private power generation projects getting put through as "strategic" for instance. I'm definitely in favour of the decision deadlines though, I think that's badly needed. And reduced access to JR's too seems to make sense to me.

Despite all the "tools" etc at the disposal of environmentalists to completely stop or delay projects, there still aren't a lot of good tools to enforce good roads design. Things like the current iteration of Shannonpark Roundabout in Carrigaline, or the Tivoli dual carriageway realignment etc: these projects shouldn't be getting approved and I have no idea how they're passing safety audits. So I definitely don't like the idea of allowing roads to progress through planning as "strategic" as there's just too many basic mistakes as it is.

KrisW1001

Have you ever filed an objection to a project? Sometimes, the reason can simply be that nobody raised the issue...

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805053#Comment_119805053

Absolutely. I've had them ignore my submissions (in writing) before being slapped down by the regulator, NTA or politicians. They'll also hilariously often try and "ghost" you, if you point to the relevant standards: they'll communicate plenty if they think you know nothing, fobbing you off about how designs meet all the standards, and they go silent if you point out the relevant standards!

The process is really bad. Like surprisingly bad. You would think that professionals would appreciate you flagging basic mistakes, but it's like they consider it an insult to their profession or something. I can only assume there's a bad culture in Irish road engineering: it wouldn't fly in the industries I work in - people get rewarded for pointing out mistakes.

And as a recent example in terms of approvals, no matter what side of the Galway ring road you're on, most people will agree that it's actually astounding that it was approved, but that they didn't subsequently attempt to defend it's approval. Whatever you think of the grounds for the objection (whether you think it's right or wrong) it was really well known at the time ABP were "reviewing" it and approving it. It wasn't some vague fine-print text clause on a document, it was something that was regularly being discussed and debated in public. And the project was approved without even attempting to deal with the issue.

So yes, I would have fears about putting roads through as strategic infrastructure for that reason. We need to improve the process definitely so that projects progress way faster, but I think pushing roads through planning with the good old ABP as our expert eyes and ears would possibly be a step in the wrong direction!

Limerick91

How long will this delay the project by, months/years??

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833424#Comment_119833424

Depends. If it reaches the High Court then likely two years, maybe more or even indefinitely if those takingtheJR are successful. They could be thrown out or withdrawn before getting there, it which case it would be months.

spacetweek

This project isn't due to commence until 2025, which is ample time for JRs to be dealt with.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835295#Comment_119835295

But advanced works need to be completed first, not sure if they can proceed with a JR is progress.

nearlybroke

What’s the latest on this road it seems a certain hotel has lodged an objection

Limerick91

Which hotel

annfield1978

Whats the latest on the judicial reviews?

spacetweek

Don't hold your breath, could take ages.

marno21

3 separate judicial reviews according to TII in the Oireachtas last week.

annfield1978

https://www.csol.ie/ccms/web/high-court-search/case-details/2022/901/JR

This is one of them

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962699#Comment_119962699

That would be this guy.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-motorway-will-destroy-us-says-stud-farm-owner-who-sells-racehorses-to-british-royal-family-40306539.html

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962699#Comment_119962699

The vetocracy rolls on, and the people of Adare and Limerick have to sit and suffer. Embarrassing stuff.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962828#Comment_119962828

i had a look for them in the project CPO schedule;

https://www.foyneslimerick.ie/_files/ugd/1cba1b_171443d62374436aaa8fea1bf946ae0c.pdf

Most of the land listed as them owning is stated as part of public road and/or part of river, with LCC or OPW list as Occupier. Basically, they may own the land but its not usable. Looks to be about 0.5Ha from them listed as "Land" and them as the Occupier.

Looking on Google Maps, the motorway passes through an agricultural field north of their stud farm. Their land seems to extend south east from there, away from the proposed motorway. There is a house with a gate into the Equestrian Centre right beside that field. I wonder is there real concern that a motorway on embankment will be right next to this house?

marno21

Is it a case of racket from the motorway disturbing the horses? Sounds like that’s a job for noise barriers rather than stopping the project altogether.

On the plus side anyone arriving into Shannon or from anywhere north of Munster doesn’t have to go through Adare coming to visit the stud. A massive plus in my opinion.

annfield1978

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41050505.html