putting tillage into grass??

jersey101

After getting 75ac on a long term lease and it was all in barley this year, im paying a good bit of money for this land so i want to put it into grass as cheaply as possible. I normally sow all the grass seed with the spinner. The p and k is index 3 and it had chicken manure on it last year. Any ideas??

yellow50HX

jersey101 wrote: »

After getting 75ac on a long term lease and it was all in barley this year, im paying a good bit of money for this land so i want to put it into grass as cheaply as possible. I normally sow all the grass seed with the spinner. The p and k is index 3 and it had chicken manure on it last year. Any ideas??

i'm assuming it is in stubble right now so the land should be ok for min till (no heavy roller). i would put in grass asap. you proably dont need to plough in the stubble once ploughing and tilling was even and there wasnt any major rutting, give it a couple of runs of a power harrow or rotaovator to prepare your seed bed, spread your hay seed with you spreader, harrow to cover then roll (you may need 2 runs). pick off any big stones then spray for post emergence(docks checkweed etc). you should have grass ready for spring but might be best to leave it until it is good an dry to graze as the soil will still be settling over the winter. we did it a few yers ago but cut silage off it before letting the cattle in in mid summer.

jersey101

yellow50HX wrote: »

i'm assuming it is in stubble right now so the land should be ok for min till (no heavy roller). i would put in grass asap. you proably dont need to plough in the stubble once ploughing and tilling was even and there wasnt any major rutting, give it a couple of runs of a power harrow or rotaovator to prepare your seed bed, spread your hay seed with you spreader, harrow to cover then roll (you may need 2 runs). pick off any big stones then spray for post emergence(docks checkweed etc). you should have grass ready for spring but might be best to leave it until it is good an dry to graze as the soil will still be settling over the winter. we did it a few yers ago but cut silage off it before letting the cattle in in mid summer.

the field is very level now i have to say, theres very few ruts in it, i was toying with the idea of getting it direct drilled with the stubble still there. Would it work?

yellow50HX

jersey101 wrote: »

the field is very level now i have to say, theres very few ruts in it, i was toying with the idea of getting it direct drilled with the stubble still there. Would it work?

it would would work arlight but you will need to roll it with a land roller, stubble tends to be soft and it could get very messy with cattle in it when wet. have often under sown barly with hay seed and there would be a nice crop of grass under the stubble. the one problem is that the cows can soemtime pull up teh stubble and pull the grass with it. if your planning on cuttign silage off it 1st then this wont really be much of an issue as the stubble would be cut right to the ground. if you have access to a power harrow i would harrow it 1st then spread and roll. if you dotn then maybe direct seed might suit you

freedominacup

jersey101 wrote: »

After getting 75ac on a long term lease and it was all in barley this year, im paying a good bit of money for this land so i want to put it into grass as cheaply as possible. I normally sow all the grass seed with the spinner. The p and k is index 3 and it had chicken manure on it last year. Any ideas??

Seeing as you're paying top dollar for this land surely your target should be to get the best establishment possible? You have it long term you'll get all the benefit of the extra establishment costs. If the ground isn't level enough you're the guy whose literally goning to have a pain in his hole dealing with it over the term.

If you can graze it then direct drill rape might be an option and then either put in wholecrop next spring and lay the ground out as if re-seeding with in tention to direct drill as soon as wholecrop is gone late next July. Another option is to lay it out properly and put in arable next spring, drill grass seeds at normal rate and put 25kgs barley through whatever compound you're using and broadcast it just before final pass with one-pass. The second worked very well for me this year and the first is looking good with seeds in 3 weeks now after wholecrop. Wholecrop yielded around 4t/DM acre with grass now established. Arable second cut just waiting for nitrates to drop.

jersey101

freedominacup wrote: »

Seeing as you're paying top dollar for this land surely your target should be to get the best establishment possible? You have it long term you'll get all the benefit of the extra establishment costs. If the ground isn't level enough you're the guy whose literally goning to have a pain in his hole dealing with it over the term.

If you can graze it then direct drill rape might be an option and then either put in wholecrop next spring and lay the ground out as if re-seeding with in tention to direct drill as soon as wholecrop is gone late next July. Another option is to lay it out properly and put in arable next spring, drill grass seeds at normal rate and put 25kgs barley through whatever compound you're using and broadcast it just before final pass with one-pass. The second worked very well for me this year and the first is looking good with seeds in 3 weeks now after wholecrop. Wholecrop yielded around 4t/DM acre with grass now established. Arable second cut just waiting for nitrates to drop.

i have enough rape sown at home and im not really interested in cereals, im after letting other land go because it was further away and thus is only 2 mile over the road, the plan for this is to put all the calves and maiden heifers on it and take silage off ir so i need it all in grass

yellow50HX

How long has the place been in tillage? If you need to add organic matter if you have to spread dung then you ll have plough that in.

I would get the grass in as soon as you can, with the weather good as it is the sooner it's in the better, it ll give it a good start enforce the winter frost and it will be ready to go next spring.

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

im paying a good bit of money for this land so i want to put it into grass as cheaply as possible.

:rolleyes:

whats good money to a dairy man??

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

:rolleyes:

whats good money to a dairy man??

say not too far off 300 an acre. Was at a farm walk down in cork this year id consider this man a top notch dairy farmer and the one he said that stuck with me was dont worry about the price you rent or buy land at if you can get it right beside you and this lad was milking 400+ cows and owned 100ac of it. He gave very good advice

jersey101

yellow50HX wrote: »

How long has the place been in tillage? If you need to add organic matter if you have to spread dung then you ll have plough that in.

I would get the grass in as soon as you can, with the weather good as it is the sooner it's in the better, it ll give it a good start enforce the winter frost and it will be ready to go next spring.

im not to sure but it was in spuds last year and grain the year before that and grain this year again. I can get hen manure to spread if i want and i can get pig slurry in the spring if i want and ill have dung at home next year if i need it.

I think ill have to disc or plough it. If i can get 50ac of it in before the winter and then i was going to sow 25ac in a hybrid grass for silage in the spring.

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

say not too far off 300 an acre. Was at a farm walk down in cork this year id consider this man a top notch dairy farmer and the one he said that stuck with me was dont worry about the price you rent or buy land at if you can get it right beside you and this lad was milking 400+ cows and owned 100ac of it. He gave very good advice

I hope you consider his advice just as good in 5 years time as today. .

I hope you farm a long, long way away from where I farm, or maybe the opposite - I could offer you the perfect route for greater expansion by renting you a few acres

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

im not to sure but it was in spuds last year and grain the year before that and grain this year again.

was it destoned?

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

was it destoned?

id reckon so but im not sure tbh i never asked. Its big tillage country around me and lads bit the hand off each other for land thats why the price is so high and why i took it for a long time. I had the chance of taking the land so i had to take it.

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

id reckon so but im not sure tbh i never asked. Its big tillage country around me and lads bit the hand off each other for land thats why the price is so high and why i took it for a long time. I had the chance of taking the land so i had to take it.

best of luck with it, as if it goes lucky its half the battle

nashmach

2 runs of a grubber and then in with a one pass will do a nice job on establishing the seed.

You may need some luck with weather.

Seen this done several times now ex tillage ground and works well.

As it is long term tillage OM may be an issue.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

best of luck with it, as if it goes lucky its half the battle

hopefully it'll be all the land i need to lease if i have a good stocking rate on the home farm

grazeaway

nashmach wrote: »

2 runs of a grubber and then in with a one pass will do a nice job on establishing the seed.

You may need some luck with weather.

Seen this done several times now ex tillage ground and works well.

As it is long term tillage OM may be an issue.

Yeah a lot of fellas that have been cutting corn off land for years they find that need some dung.

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

hopefully it'll be all the land i need to lease if i have a good stocking rate on the home farm

Well if you need more ground you can have first refusal on my patch at similar money

jaymla627

jersey101 wrote: »

say not too far off 300 an acre. Was at a farm walk down in cork this year id consider this man a top notch dairy farmer and the one he said that stuck with me was dont worry about the price you rent or buy land at if you can get it right beside you and this lad was milking 400+ cows and owned 100ac of it. He gave very good advice

What do you reckon its going to cost you per litre for the rent of this land at say 290 an acre, for the sake of it fag box calculations say the extra land allows you to load your milking platform and this equates to you being able to produce say 12,500 litres a hectare extra with your 70 acreas assuming 2.5 cows hectare at 5,000 litres a cow so in laymans terms its costing you an extra 6 cents roughly a litre in production terms absoloutely doable in a good year will seriously squeeze you in a tight year and thats without factoring in the cost of reseeding/extra p and k lime etc needed to get the land up to scratch along with fenceing etc, always wise to get the calculator out before going of the deep end max id pay in a situation like that is 200 an acre.

jersey101

jaymla627 wrote: »

What do you reckon its going to cost you per litre for the rent of this land at say 290 an acre, for the sake of it fag box calculations say the extra land allows you to load your milking platform and this equates to you being able to produce say 12,500 litres a hectare extra with your 70 acreas assuming 2.5 cows hectare at 5,000 litres a cow so in laymans terms its costing you an extra 6 cents roughly a litre in production terms absoloutely doable in a good year will seriously squeeze you in a tight year and thats without factoring in the cost of reseeding/extra p and k lime etc needed to get the land up to scratch along with fenceing etc, always wise to get the calculator out before going of the deep end max id pay in a situation like that is 200 an acre.

38 ha on home farm will try stock it at 3.2 so thats 120 cows. Versus my 80 now and i was renting 70 acres that was spread out in a ten mile radius so i gave it up for the one block. Even though im paying more than i was for the other land. The home block was in tillage for 30yr and ive been milking on it for the last 10yr and i can still she the om deficiency so i have an idea what it will take

freedominacup

jaymla627 wrote: »

What do you reckon its going to cost you per litre for the rent of this land at say 290 an acre, for the sake of it fag box calculations say the extra land allows you to load your milking platform and this equates to you being able to produce say 12,500 litres a hectare extra with your 70 acreas assuming 2.5 cows hectare at 5,000 litres a cow so in laymans terms its costing you an extra 6 cents roughly a litre in production terms absoloutely doable in a good year will seriously squeeze you in a tight year and thats without factoring in the cost of reseeding/extra p and k lime etc needed to get the land up to scratch along with fenceing etc, always wise to get the calculator out before going of the deep end max id pay in a situation like that is 200 an acre.

This is where the wheels come of the wagon for the 5000l cow and expansion. They can't pay for it.

Timmaay

Stocked at 3.2, you'll probably need to import grass/fodder on the shoulders, are you considering likes of zero grazing etc from that rented block? (obvious will add more costs!). If I stocked my milking block at 3.2, I could go to 140 cows or so, that and having one full time (or 5days a week say) labour unit would suit me good moving forward, but I think it would put everything under way too much pressure. I think instead I'll just keep bumping up 5/10cows a year till I find the farms limit, and see what sort of outside block of land I can rent, but similarly to Jay, 200/acre will be about my limit.

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Stocked at 3.2, you'll probably need to import grass/fodder on the shoulders, are you considering likes of zero grazing etc from that rented block? (obvious will add more costs!). If I stocked my milking block at 3.2, I could go to 140 cows or so, that and having one full time (or 5days a week say) labour unit would suit me good moving forward, but I think it would put everything under way too much pressure. I think instead I'll just keep bumping up 5/10cows a year till I find the farms limit, and see what sort of outside block of land I can rent, but similarly to Jay, 200/acre will be about my limit.

ye thqts what i plan on doing too by pushing up a few cows every year to see what the farm can handle. There is an option of using a tillage field beside the yard and putting rape into it every year for the winter to save on silage

jersey101

Would ye consider 3.2 to be a high stocking rate? I know its high but i dont think its unachievable on most farms.

jaymla627

jersey101 wrote: »

Would ye consider 3.2 to be a high stocking rate? I know its high but i dont think its unachievable on most farms.

Its doable in the sense if your getting 70% of your silage requirments from outside that block along with being prepared to proberly feed 800kg-1000kg of meal to make up the shortfalls when we get a spring like this years.

jersey101

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its doable in the sense if your getting 70% of your silage requirments from outside that block along with being prepared to proberly feed 800kg-1000kg of meal to make up the shortfalls when we get a spring like this years.

well this year my grazing platform was at 3.42 and i did okay. This was because i had all the bulling heifers on the home block and was taking silage of it. I fed meal all year this year, granted its a good year for milk price but i can always justify it because i have a high milk price and i can feed cheaper meal because i mix my own

blue5000

Could you put some rape on the leased land now for replacements/ dry cows this winter? Then put in arable silage after ploughing in OM next spring. It's going to cost a few k's to reseed it all. If it has been in tillage a long time I can guess what the fencing is like:(

stanflt

jersey101 wrote: »

Would ye consider 3.2 to be a high stocking rate? I know its high but i dont think its unachievable on most farms.

no im at 4.15 on milking platform and im constantly taking out bales

mf240

stanflt wrote: »

no im at 4.15 on milking platform and im constantly taking out bales

Yes but you feed a lot dry matter through diet feeder all year don't you?

I

stanflt

mf240 wrote: »

Yes but you feed a lot dry matter through diet feeder all year don't you?

I

yeah but cows are out 11months of the year and produce a little more than 5000litres:cool:

mf240

stanflt wrote: »

yeah but cows are out 11months of the year and produce a little more than 5000litres:cool:

I know that just saying if ya go to that stocking rate you will need to feed.

But them good cows are worth feeding.

yellow50HX

stanflt wrote: »

no im at 4.15 on milking platform and im constantly taking out bales

Are you putting out a lot of fertilzer? My dad had a stocking rate of about 3.5 back in the 90's. plenty of dung and slurry out in the spring and authunm and spreader on the tractor a lot

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

Would ye consider 3.2 to be a high stocking rate? I know its high but i dont think its unachievable on most farms.

I cant believe the low stocking rate many dairy guys on here have. The spare capacity that you have to start producing in 2015 is immense.

whats the defn of milking platform, can't see why its not over a whole farm basis if all thats produced of the area goes towards the milk production whether cows milking or not, be it grass,silage,wheat,maize

jersey101

blue5000 wrote: »

Could you put some rape on the leased land now for replacements/ dry cows this winter? Then put in arable silage after ploughing in OM next spring. It's going to cost a few k's to reseed it all. If it has been in tillage a long time I can guess what the fencing is like:(

i have 16ac of rape sown already. Have plenty of it already

jersey101

Going to do a bit of a trial on this. Going to disc one field, plough another and grub the other. Will see what happens

grazeaway

jersey101 wrote: »

Going to do a bit of a trial on this. Going to disc one field, plough another and grub the other. Will see what happens

The discing does sound like a good idea. Just give the stubble a good cutting up to prepare the seed bed.

delaval

Some fairly broad statements here. I started with no cows quita or land. Stan claims 5000l cows can't pay for it, well they did for me. I admit things are a lot better now with yields much improved through breeding.

I started with nothing and have bought 2 pieces of land since and I don't have 10k lite cows.

Anyone who can't make it dairying with the abolition of quotas should consider exiting agriculture. Any one coming in should be encouraged.

Perhaps if Daddy had given me a well developed farm I might have been more worried about yield instead of profit

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

Some fairly broad statements here. I started with no cows quita or land. Stan claims 5000l cows can't pay for it, well they did for me. I admit things are a lot better now with yields much improved through breeding.

I started with nothing and have bought 2 pieces of land since and I don't have 10k lite cows.

Anyone who can't make it dairying with the abolition of quotas should consider exiting agriculture. Any one coming in should be encouraged.

Perhaps if Daddy had given me a well developed farm I might have been more worried about yield instead of profit

my father has done the same as you. When i get the farm (hopefully) it wont be fully developed anyway be a long way away from it. Im the one pushing on cow numbers now

stanflt

delaval wrote: »

Some fairly broad statements here. I started with no cows quita or land. Stan claims 5000l cows can't pay for it, well they did for me. I admit things are a lot better now with yields much improved through breeding.

I started with nothing and have bought 2 pieces of land since and I don't have 10k lite cows.

Anyone who can't make it dairying with the abolition of quotas should consider exiting agriculture. Any one coming in should be encouraged.

Perhaps if Daddy had given me a well developed farm I might have been more worried about yield instead of profit

when did i ever say you couldnt make money with 5k cows

delaval

stanflt wrote: »

when did i ever say you couldnt make money with 5k cows

Sorry Stan it was that pup Freedom!!

Sorry need specsavers

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Sorry Stan it was that pup Freedom!!

Sorry need specsavers

I didn't say you couldn't make money with 5k l cows either. I said they find it hard to pay for expansion at rents north of €300/acre or as someone else pointed out 6 cent per litre.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I didn't say you couldn't make money with 5k l cows either. I said they find it hard to pay for expansion at rents north of €300/acre or as someone else pointed out 6 cent per litre.

What you need is some free owned land to make money, stuff that has no cost apportioned to it

Timmaay

Agreed with that Bob, Jay worked out the land cost on the bases of how much milk potential it had, probably a better way of looking at it would be the overall farm c/l cost to Jersey now, I think you said you are 80cows now, and they are 5kl cows? So that 75acres of land at 290ish is costing you 21grand, or about 5.4c/l, and if you hit your 120cows in the future, that fixed cost will get diluted to about 3.5c/l. This of course assuming the 75acres is the only rented land, and the homefarm is rentfree! I'd assume sums as such are the only way at all any lads can justify buying land, it will never really make sense to buy from a farming return point of view, but once the c/l cost paying for it is diluted enough.

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed with that Bob, Jay worked out the land cost on the bases of how much milk potential it had, probably a better way of looking at it would be the overall farm c/l cost to Jersey now, I think you said you are 80cows now, and they are 5kl cows? So that 75acres of land at 290ish is costing you 21grand, or about 5.4c/l, and if you hit your 120cows in the future, that fixed cost will get diluted to about 3.5c/l. This of course assuming the 75acres is the only rented land, and the homefarm is rentfree! I'd assume sums as such are the only way at all any lads can justify buying land, it will never really make sense to buy from a farming return point of view, but once the c/l cost paying for it is diluted enough.

5800l cow her. And paying for land at home too

bob charles

I must be a right fool as I considered bidding over €22,000 per year, too much for 170ac's block two years ago. good clean dry land but it couldnt be touched (no crops, reseeding allowed) so that put me off more than anything probably.

grazeaway

bob charles wrote: »

I must be a right fool as I considered bidding over €22,000 per year, too much for 170ac's block two years ago. good clean dry land but it couldnt be touched (no crops, reseeding allowed) so that put me off more than anything probably.

i am assuming it was a long therm lease (+5 years). what would be the point renting the place only to find out the sward needed to the be redone. was it part of a place in permenant pasture? i do know of lads that will rent places like that but only on a year by year basis. if your goign reseed a place your will want to have it for a while to get the best out of the new grass.

Markcheese

jersey101 wrote: »

ye thqts what i plan on doing too by pushing up a few cows every year to see what the farm can handle. There is an option of using a tillage field beside the yard and putting rape into it every year for the winter to save on silage

Can you grow rape continuosly in a field ... Would it not get club root... ??

jersey101

Markcheese wrote: »

Can you grow rape continuosly in a field ... Would it not get club root... ??

its in a 40ac field and its sown in barley every year. My plan is to sow the bottom half one year and top half the next and keep rotating like that. Shouldn't get club root like that