Has Zigglers push been stalled?

rovert

Looks like Ziggler is in the time honoured doghouse period of his career:

Notes from the 8/26 tapings in Phoenix. The show opened with Superstars, with Usos & Gabriel beating Slater & McIntyre & Mahal when Gabriel pinned McIntyre with a 450. Eva Marie did the ring announcing. In a surprise, Cesaro pinned Ziggler clean with the Neutralizer in what was said to be a long, excellent match. The idea Cesaro pinned Ziggler clean in a TV match has to be a story because a face at that level doesn’t lose to an undercard heel on Superstars. Even if there is a storyline reason that he would lose to start a new program, it would be under angle situations, but there was no interference from Swagger or Colter involved. Plus, Ziggler hasn’t been featured much on Raw and he was used in the buffer match at SummerSlam.

Wrestling Observer

gnfnrhead

Wouldn't say it's a doghouse, more that they realised his place on the card.

cian68

A Cesaro Ziggler match should definitely be good no matter who didn't shake hands with someone. When will it air?

Riddle101

WWE have not really been that big on Ziggler, I don't know why they gave him the Money in the Bank last year. Seems like they only had him win the title just so they can put that behind them and move on but it was a waste of time watching Ziggler over the past two years seemly getting pushed only to be lower in the ranks. He's just like The Miz now.

CSF

I'm clearly alone in thinking he is on the cusp of big things..

cian68

I love the guy, and I will forever love the guy for giving me one of my favourite live experiences. It will be hard for a concert, football match or anything else to match being there when he cashed in.

DM_7

CSF wrote: »

I'm clearly alone in thinking he is on the cusp of big things..

At the moment he isn't but I think he is good enough to be.

CSF

DM-ICE wrote: »

At the moment he isn't but I think he is good enough to be.

He has a big role to play in this Bryan/HHH angle. If there is one person who won't need alot to get him over it is Ziggler. I'm not saying it will be quite the same, but the speed of Bryan's rise to prominence was remarkable and kind of out of the blue. The Team Hell No gimmick had gotten really stale and I don't know if anyone could have predicted how quick he would become main event material. But it was always obvious that if he had massive potential and was seriously over if given a proper push and I think it is the same with Ziggler. He should have been kept as champion before instead of this boring Del Rio reign.

gnfnrhead

Trying to compare Ziggler to Bryan is just bizarre. They arent even close.

smellmepower

Bryan's inherently likeable,always has been.He has that whole Mick Foley circa 98/99 vibe going on.Ziggler isn't the least bit likeable and is mediocre at best on the mic,he'll never catch on like Bryan did,as a face or heel.Not in a million years.

His future is as a big bumping mid card heel or a shíte stand up comedian.

DM_7

Bryan's rise is not out of the blue though, he had a good test on Smackdown as WHC w/Henry & Show. Lost to Sheamus in an Ultimate heel gets his moment. Went on to challenge for the WWE title. One of the only guys to be involved in anything the Rock did during his return and it happened during RAW 1000. Then was one of the most featured wrestlers during his hell no time, every RAW and Smack down, PPVs. He main evented with the Shield and was the guy that finally beat them.

Rjd2

smellmepower wrote: »

Bryan's inherently likeable,always has been.He has that whole Mick Foley circa 98/99 vibe going on.Ziggler isn't the least bit likeable and is mediocre at best on the mic,he'll never catch on like Bryan did,as a face or heel.Not in a million years.

His future is as a big bumping mid card heel or a shíte stand up comedian.

Yep I like Dolph lots but he has no real likability factor for the audience at all, he can be over with the smarks but that is it.

beakerjoe

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yep I like Dolph lots but he has no real likability factor for the audience at all, he can be over with the smarks but that is it.

I agree to an extent, i think he can have the same underdog qualities D-Bry has, but hes not as over as him and the WWE never really seem to let him run with it anything. Hes only been face a few months, give him a year and he could be the next hot ticket. Maybe a few months of oppression and scuffles with Triple H and his regime followed by an underdog like performance in the Rumble ala HBK in 96 could be in his future, but that is my own wishful thinking.

gimmick

He needs a name change. I just can never see a DOLPH ZIGGLER being a franchise player. Whereas Nick Nemeth, his real name, is a proper hard guys name. Or something not so cartoony at least.

B.A._Baracus

WWE have always done this. Can't understand why. It's counter-productive.
They get behind someone and push them. They start to build momentum, they can be getting over or are over with fans .... BUT STOP! Take him off tv or drop him down a level or just job him out.

Why?
Like if WWE has plans for a guy but it's not his time yet, you can understand why they would shuffle him around. But it makes sense to keep him on tv and in an constructive way.

Dolph must have pissed off someone backstage.

Mick Murdock

He doesn't come across as the most likeable fella in the world anytime I've seen him do media interviews. I wouldn't say unlikeable either he just doesn't seem as personable as a lot of the guys they use like Orton, Bryan, Sheamo etc.


Otherwise I really like him, hope he makes it to the top.

CastorTroy

I'm sure being taken off the shows just as his reign started due to his concussion didn't help either.

JP Liz V1

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0829/565246/dolph-ziggler-says-he-sick-of-wwe-always-backing-randy-orton/

"If you've been familiar with WWE for the last 10 years or so, you would
understand without HHH coming up front and coming out and saying
this is our hand picked guy, he's the face, no matter what we're behind him,"
Ziggler said. "If you've been watching the last 10 years or so, you'd already
know that they made up their mind about him long time ago. No matter what he
does, good or bad, they're behind him and they'll go out of their way to cut
peoples legs from underneath them to make sure Randy comes out looking great.


"So, the fact that it's now out in the open, and I'm allowed to comment on
it, it actually makes me sick. I'm really happy from Randy, he's awesome, he's
so good at this. It makes me mad how good he is. But the opportunities that he
gets over and over again makes that chip on my shoulder feel that much bigger to
me. I wanna go out there and prove that they're wrong, prove [to] Triple H that
he backed the wrong guy for the last 10 years, and no matter what, I'm going to
come out on top, one way or the other."
Ziggler also discussed what he feels is coming down the road for him, being a
fan of Christian, who he would like to take on in the future and more

Push Ziggles to the moon now :P

gnfnrhead

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

WWE have always done this. Can't understand why. It's counter-productive.
They get behind someone and push them. They start to build momentum, they can be getting over or are over with fans .... BUT STOP! Take him off tv or drop him down a level or just job him out.

Why?
Like if WWE has plans for a guy but it's not his time yet, you can understand why they would shuffle him around. But it makes sense to keep him on tv and in an constructive way.

Dolph must have pissed off someone backstage.

But he wasn't getting over. He was quickly losing the attention of the fans and WWE acted accordingly. Instead of continuing the push when the majority no longer cared, they moved on to someone else.

CSF

gnfnrhead wrote: »

But he wasn't getting over. He was quickly losing the attention of the fans and WWE acted accordingly. Instead of continuing the push when the majority no longer cared, they moved on to someone else.

Around the time he cashed in, he was so over. But then the WWE completely stopped pushing, I realise there was the concussion, but still.

Diabhal Beag

He recovered from the Kerwin White stuff, Spirit squad, being appointed World Champion by Vickie, his stupid name etc. It's not as if he wasn't one of they key figures in the angle on Monday with Big Show either. Granted they could have done a load more with his cash-in momentum but it isn't as if he wasn't losing matches before that anyways. He isn't in a spiral like Miz just yet. Ziggler is one of those guys like Bryan who could have a massive role in the next 5 years or so.

DEFTLEFTHAND

He turned 33 this year, the next 5 years are vital for him, he's put in his time and payed his dues. The style and pace that he wrestles could wain as he gets older.

I think his average mic skills are what will always hold him back though.

jaykhunter

I'm not a huge fan of his motormouth heel promo style, but I think he's above average on the mic. The real problem is that he believes in getting himself over via crazy bumps, and in about 2 years I bet he'll need back surgery. He won't be the same when he returns, much like Mr. Perfect after his 1991 back surgery, and that'll be that, really.

There's no sense in taking big bumps during this de-push time period, I hope he spends it working on his character, promos and getting his moves over, so he can rely on them when he can't take bumps like he is now.

DM_7

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0829/565246/dolph-ziggler-says-he-sick-of-wwe-always-backing-randy-orton/

He is in a better place than I thought so, if he is getting the job of saying things like that.

Riddle101

Maybe there is something about Ziggler backstage that the fans just don't know, and don't understand why he's in that position. Maybe he's lazy backstage or doesn't show the right respect or enthusiasm. A lot of people were very big on Carlito years ago, but he was said to be lazy backstage and even John Cena pulled him up over it. MVP, was another guy as well. Both MVP and Carlito were supposed to be big but they ended up mid-carders until they left. Ziggler strikes me as that type of person too. The fact that he doesn't care and goes out of his way making jokes on twitter about WWE, and criticizing the company says that. Some people might say he's being honest, i'll admit that I respect Ziggler because he seems to be the only one who has the nerve to act like that, because I hate company guys like Cena. But those within WWE might not see it the same way. The Miz seems to have had the same problem too. But from what I recall, after Miz's title reign ended there were reports about the Miz backstage too. He also sandbagged Alex Riley too I think which didn't help his case. Funny enough Riley too has has problems backstage, and also sandbagged someone. All i'm saying, maybe there is a reason why Ziggler is in the place he is.

That being said of course. I've never really seen anything spectacular in Ziggler tbh. He's good in the ring, good at taking bumps, but that's about it. I don't think he has very much charisma, and he is average on the mic.

takamichinoku

Can't imagine Ziggler being lazy. If I was going to worry about anything, I'd be concerned that you have another Kurt Angle type on your hands who pushes himself way too much. He's not a great promo either, and not very tall.

I like him though!

Mr.Nice Guy

I think people are overreacting about his position. The reality is the World Title nowadays is a glorified midcard belt, and anyone challenging for it will thus be regarded as midcard talent.

CSF

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think people are overreacting about his position. The reality is the World Title nowadays is a glorified midcard belt, and anyone challenging for it will thus be regarded as midcard talent.

It is a platform for people to prove themselves for the big push though.

JP Liz V1

DM-ICE wrote: »

He is in a better place than I thought so, if he is getting the job of saying things like that.

I wonder if it is a work for part of the current storyline if not could Ziggles be jobbing for life or worse on his way out of WWE

rovert

The Ziggler match is available here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1406qe_wwe-superstars-8-30-13-part-1-3-hq_sport?search_algo=2

Recommend the first match too.

CSF

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I wonder if it is a work for part of the current storyline if not could Ziggles be jobbing for life or worse on his way out of WWE

It seems too similar to the storyline and appropriately timed for it not to be a work.

DM_7

Just like when Vince played the evil boss Triple H is taking the things people think about him, amplifying them. Orton is assumed a favourite and that fits in with the same idea. Any questioning of them in the circumstances that Dolph did would part of the storyline.

Mr.Saturn

Why did he drop the superkick as a finish? He dusted off Orton at Survivor Series, and then Cena at TLC (well, to climb the ladder) with it, and then it stopped being a thing.

It was a beautifully executed one.

Handsome Bob

Just watching superstars now, Dolph looking very Perfect-esque in his orange t-shirt.

IanMc666

Was literally only thinking this to myself on Sunday after watching the week's Superstars and Smackdown back to back, and realizing he lost twice.

The typical Money In The Bank type Dolph Ziggler would have had no problem with the Real Americans or Cesaro but he was literally just demolished. It's mad how just after Mania he was getting the biggest pop and now this. I initially thought it was because of his injury from Swagger, but yeah, I have to agree with what some said in that he must have ticked off someone in the back.

LOTD

I think he needs a new finish, the zig zag to me just looks very weak. Mic skills still lacking, he's not as funny as he thinks he is.

SirDelboy18

He definitely did something wrong at some point. I fail to believe this was scripted for his character all along.

Although there are listeners of our shows who think Dave Meltzer and I know the reason Dolph Ziggler is being buried and are keeping it quiet, the reality is that we don't know. In fact, nobody we talked to knows, but the feeling is it stems from an interview he did around the time of SummerSlam. The problem is he did tons of interviews around SummerSlam, some big and some small, and in all of them I've checked I haven't seen anything that one would deem particularly offensive. The problem is also that with WWE and the decision-makers at the top, sometimes the things that set them off are things that a normal human being wouldn't even think twice about. But it is believed he is paying the price for something he said.

(Observer)

LOTD

I think tonight's Raw, really shows how Ziggler has gone down in the pecking order. He is getting lost in the pack, really taught that this was his year. Shame, he is a hell of a talent.

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought I heard somewhere that he made fun of the Total Divas show. If so, that might explain a lot.

gnfnrhead

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought I heard somewhere that he made fun of the Total Divas show. If so, that might explain a lot.

He took a lot of shots at WWE on Twitter when he was champ. I'm guessing that has more to do with it myself.

Riddle101

LOTD wrote: »

I think tonight's Raw, really shows how Ziggler has gone down in the pecking order. He is getting lost in the pack, really taught that this was his year. Shame, he is a hell of a talent.

Meh, I see him as noting more then a mid-card talent. He should be happy he won the World Heavyweight Championship, though. There are plenty of other guys who could have gotten it instead of him.

LOTD

The WHC is a midcard bout these days. I like the guy but his "comedy" might be getting in the way. The guy should air his grievances with his position in the company in the right manner, not his twitter account.

bobby_says_hi

Yeah this may be a test right now. To see how he reacts. They do this all the time. He just needs to grit his teeth and do whatever the company asks of him, and do it well to make them want to push him again. We all knew last night's match would be a squash but he still made it fun and good so that's what he needs to do.

DM_7

He did make a lot of silly tweets when sitting a Raw out with concussion.

GTR63

bobby_says_hi wrote: »

Yeah this may be a test right now. To see how he reacts. They do this all the time.

Isn't he on tv for 6 or 7 years now, bit late to be giving him "The Test". Didn't he get beaten a lot when he won the MITB last year aswell.

rovert

Funny:
https://vine.co/v/h17q06Yr2BQ

gnfnrhead

Wrong link? I don't see the funny. :P

DM_7

Dolph is not in a great spot but his punishment is not too severe. He is featured on every show and still on PPV.

Compared to Barrett who vanished or Sandow losing to everyone he is looking good!

gnfnrhead

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86529676&postcount=5317

That likely isn't helping him either.

DM_7

That could well be the major reason for it all???

JBL referenced Lawler while Dolph was hitting the elbows on Ambrose (Smackdown)

LOTD

Nah that's only coming to light now, he has been WHC since then. Plus you got to look at Lawler's age in all of this, he is the ring with guys three decades younger than him.