Received planning from An Bord Pleanala - have to issue commencement notice?

vicwatson

After refusal by the council I got planning from ABP, do I have to issue a commencement notice to the council like as if I had gotten permission from them, before I start work?

DOCARCH

Yes.

vicwatson

When is the minimum time I can start digging foundations?

Say I get the permission on a Wednesday, how long before I can kick start the foundations?

BryanF

vicwatson wrote: »

When is the minimum time I can start digging foundations?

Say I get the permission on a Wednesday, how long before I can kick start the foundations?

submit the commencement notice, in person tomorrow

and while your there, ask to speak to a building control officer - I have been told by a cork building control officer that 'you can dig, but not pour foundations' on a domestic dwelling job previously

caveat: that is not to say every building control officer will agree to the above;)

sinnerboy

14 days

vicwatson

sinnerboy wrote: »

14 days

And if I start digging foundation say the Friday after the Wednesday ?

sinnerboy

vicwatson wrote: »

And if I start digging foundation say the Friday after the Wednesday ?

You have to give 14 days notice. Otherwise you are breaking the law.

vicwatson

Penalties if I did ??

BTW I'm not going to do it, I want to be in compliance so..

muffler

vicwatson wrote: »

Penalties if I did ??

Dodgy question. Have a read at our forum charter please especially Section 6.

vicwatson wrote: »

BTW I'm not going to do it, I want to be in compliance so..

That being the case you dont need a response to the above so.

vicwatson

muffler wrote: »

Dodgy question. Have a read at our forum charter please especially Section 6.


That being the case you dont need a response to the above so.

6.0 Respect the law

6.1 Any thread/post that is looking for ways to get around the planning process, or building regulations, or any other statutory legislation, or advising somebody to ignore these legislations and regulations, will be deleted and the poster will be banned indefinitely.

6.2 All genuine planning queries can be debated providing legal advice is not being sought. Comments on grounds for objections and appeals are acceptable providing they conform to the above.

6.3 Whilst the planning process, including the legalities involved may be discussed in full, please note that seeking or imparting legal advice may result in a ban.

I am merely interested in what the penalties are for someone that is in breach of the requirement to issue a commencement notice that's all - or if someone can point me to the legislation showing those I'd be happy with that, infact that would suit me perfectly and I'll go way off and research.

I've stated very clearly that I will be in compliance with the law, doesn't mean I don't want a response to my question.

I don't see how that is disrespecting the charter, specifically section 6 as I've highlighted above ???

Thank You

muffler

here ya go.

vicwatson

muffler wrote: »

here ya go.

Thank you kindly

Poor Uncle Tom

BryanF wrote: »

submit the commencement notice, in person tomorrow

and while your there, ask to speak to a building control officer - I have been told by a cork building control officer that 'you can dig, but not pour foundations' on a domestic dwelling job previously

caveat: that is not to say every building control officer will agree to the above;)

I've had the same experience with more than one BCO.

Having teased it out previously with one such BCO we came to the conclusion that all primary excavation works are actually exploratory works to determine the depth of soil, sub soil and the presence of rock in the location of the proposed works and as such would be considered exempt works under Class 45 of Part 1 of the second schedule of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, (SI No. 600 of 2001, the same exemption which allows the excavation of trial and test holes for Site Suitability Assessments.)

Therefore, if the works are exempt from requiring planning permission, they are exempt from requiring a commencement notice. The commencement notice covers all construction works starting from the pouring of foundations onwards.

Just to be clear on this, this isn't stated anywhere on the Building Control Act and is just a logical extrapolation of the intertwined regulations, but it has always satisfied any BCO I've spoken to.

DOCARCH

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

...primary excavation works are actually exploratory works to determine the depth of soil, sub soil and the presence of rock in the location of the proposed works...

I have always called them 'enabling works'.

Also bear in mind that the Commencement Notice has nothing to do with planning...it is to do with Building Regulations...so, I have always indictaed to clients/contractors that 'enabling works' may take place on site, within 14 days of submitting the Commencement Notice, once those works are not subkect to Building Regulations, so, as PUT suggests, I have always indicated that general demolitions, site clearance, general excavation, etc., can take place, but, not say, pouring of foundations or installation of drainage (as these are subject to Building Regulations).

BryanF

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I've had the same experience with more than one BCO.

Having teased it out previously with one such BCO we came to the conclusion that all primary excavation works are actually exploratory works to determine the depth of soil, sub soil and the presence of rock in the location of the proposed works and as such would be considered exempt works under Class 45 of Part 1 of the second schedule of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, (SI No. 600 of 2001, the same exemption which allows the excavation of trial and test holes for Site Suitability Assessments.)

Therefore, if the works are exempt from requiring planning permission, they are exempt from requiring a commencement notice. The commencement notice covers all construction works starting from the pouring of foundations onwards.

Just to be clear on this, this isn't stated anywhere on the Building Control Act and is just a logical extrapolation of the intertwined regulations, but it has always satisfied any BCO I've spoken to.

yea thats been my personal experience also, but if im dealing with a BCO that i dont know, i tend to ask there opinion first, as ive heard differing reports from colleagues on what is acceptable on larger/commercial projects

Gumbo

vicwatson wrote: »

And if I start digging foundation say the Friday after the Wednesday ?

You will then be in breach of the Building Control Act IIRC

But, i cant see many BC Inspectors taking much action on you as long as everything else is in order.

witty username

Bear in mind that digging footings and leaving them open until you're allowed commence with actual construction might not be the best idea if it's going to take some time.

bertie 56

muffler wrote: »

here ya go.

The worst in all this would be to find a bank that accept to change your euros into pounds, for paying the fine... :D:D

Gman7

DOCARCH wrote: »

I have always called them 'enabling works'.

Also bear in mind that the Commencement Notice has nothing to do with planning...it is to do with Building Regulations...so, I have always indictaed to clients/contractors that 'enabling works' may take place on site, within 14 days of submitting the Commencement Notice, once those works are not subkect to Building Regulations, so, as PUT suggests, I have always indicated that general demolitions, site clearance, general excavation, etc., can take place, but, not say, pouring of foundations or installation of drainage (as these are subject to Building Regulations).

Hi DOCARCH,

I'm just reading this string 4 years on.

With reference to domestic work: Would your thoughts on indicating that 'enabling works' may be carried out within the 14 days still hold today since the BCAR's came in?
I'd also be interested on your thoughts as to the extent of demolitions that would be allowed in a standard back of house wall removal for an extension? or say a the demolition of a chimney that has permission to be removed?

Cheers

Gumbo

Gman7 wrote: »

Hi DOCARCH,

I'm just reading this string 4 years on.

With reference to domestic work: Would your thoughts on indicating that 'enabling works' may be carried out within the 14 days still hold today since the BCAR's came in?
I'd also be interested on your thoughts as to the extent of demolitions that would be allowed in a standard back of house wall removal for an extension? or say a the demolition of a chimney that has permission to be removed?

Cheers

If the works require structural support to the remaining elements of the house, that's Part A and would need commencement notice.

Gman7

Thanks for the reply
So, if no structural support are required then no need to wait the full 14 days to demolish?
I guess temporary supports would also fall within this area.

Gumbo

Gman7 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply
So, if no structural support are required then no need to wait the full 14 days to demolish?
I guess temporary supports would also fall within this area.

Technically, demolition does not require a commencement notice.
So you could demolish the entire house if it's detached and then lodge notice to rebuild. But, if you knock half house then temp support designed by engineer is required so notice required also.

Either way, I can't see many BCO's hammering you for a minor thing like this as long as everything else is in order.