saorview hd and freeview hd on New tv

stevo25

Just popped home to see my dad, he lives in Cavan. He has good terrestrial signal from cairn hill and brougher mountains.
Hes got a new Pana TX-42E5B. Not a bad tv, great freeview HD pic, and great RTE hd pic. But no matter how I try I cannot have freeview and , I guess, Saorview on the tv? Has anyone solved this?

coylemj

stevo25 wrote: »

J
great freeview HD pic, and great RTE hd pic

stevo25 wrote: »

J
But no matter how I try I cannot have freeview and , I guess, Saorview on the tv?

Those two statements are conflicting. First let's get the terminology sorted....

Freeview refers to UK digital terrestrial TV receved from a transmitter.

Saorview refers to Irish digital terrestrial TV receved from a transmitter.

If he has 'great' freeview and 'great' RTE then where's the problem?

By any chance are you referrring to the use of an indoor aerial and that you currently need to swing the aerial around to change from Cairn Hill (Saorview) to Brougher Mountain (Freeview)? From Co. Cavan you will need two aerials because the angular separation won't allow you to pick up both from one stationary aerial. From Cavan town the angular separation between Brougher Mountain and Cairn Hill is >120 degrees, even in the east of Co. Cavan e.g. from Shercock it's 70 degrees.

stevo25

I think I must have been tired when I posted. I meant the tv can receive UK ie hd freeview. BBC etc. Or saorview hd rte with no hd BBC. Has anyone managed to store all the channels? I have installed 2 aerials for him and user the correct combiner as I used to work in the aerial industry.

The Cush

stevo25 wrote: »

I think I must have been tired when I posted. I meant the tv can receive UK ie hd freeview. BBC etc. Or saorview hd rte with no hd BBC. Has anyone managed to store all the channels? I have installed 2 aerials for him and user the correct combiner as I used to work in the aerial industry.

It should be no problem to store channels from both Saorview and Freeview.

What country setting did you use when setting up the TV, Ireland or UK? Have you looked in the 800s for the channels?

stevo25

The tv, Panasonic tx 42. E6b will set as UK or Ireland. Yes I get utv and BBC on Ireland setting. But no BBC hd and when on UK I get no rte hd. That is my issue. It almost as if when setting to country it blocked the others hd. Even when in "Ireland" setting you cannot manually add UK he mux which I have tried manually adding. Has anyone managed this? Even on another tv?

Gerry Wicklow

I had a similar issue with an STB (cant remember make) a few years back. It was an either / or. Welsh or Irish. The box would scan the channels but not show them. You were even restricted by the UK postcode to a specific region. In my case Wales or West Country. It was an official Freeview approved box.

Peter Rhea

stevo25 wrote: »

The tv, Panasonic tx 42. E6b will set as UK or Ireland. Yes I get utv and BBC on Ireland setting. But no BBC hd and when on UK I get no rte hd.

With UK as setting, do you get TV3 & 3e? Or just RTE1, 2 & TG4, all in SD? (The NImux, on UHF channel 30 from Brougher.)

stevo25

No just RTE 1&2 and TG4. Even tried to add RTE hd but to no avail. Full signal and 100% quality but no channels found ??

stevo25

coylemj wrote: »

Those two statements are conflicting. First let's get the terminology sorted....

Freeview refers to UK digital terrestrial TV receved from a transmitter.

Saorview refers to Irish digital terrestrial TV receved from a transmitter.

If he has 'great' freeview and 'great' RTE then where's the problem?

By any chance are you referrring to the use of an indoor aerial and that you currently need to swing the aerial around to change from Cairn Hill (Saorview) to Brougher Mountain (Freeview)? From Co. Cavan you will need two aerials because the angular separation won't allow you to pick up both from one stationary aerial. From Cavan town the angular separation between Brougher Mountain and Cairn Hill is >120 degrees, even in the east of Co. Cavan e.g. from Shercock it's 70 degrees.

Rather a patronising reply to my question

whitebriar

stevo25 wrote: »

No just RTE 1&2 and TG4. Even tried to add RTE hd but to no avail. Full signal and 100% quality but no channels found ??

Are the RTE's and tg4 from the ni mini mix ch 30 then,its just saorview itself that won't work?

Peter Rhea

stevo25 wrote: »

No just RTE 1&2 and TG4.

On channel 30? That would be the NImux from Brougher.

It's been remarked here before that Panasonic are annoyingly strict in their interpretations of each country's spec. The UK doesn't allow DVB-T transmission standard to be used with MPEG4 video encoding, so that would be Saorview out the window with UK as setting.

Likewise, the original Saorview spec. didn't include DVB-T2, as used by Freeview HD (the latest spec. does but that tv was likely approved before Jan 2013), so that would be an explanation for only receiving SD Freeview with Ireland as country setting.

winston_1

Panasonic TVs tend to be hobbled to only work in one country. It seems this one can do UK or Ireland but not both together. Take it back and get something that is not hobbled. Panasonic customer service probably won't help by the way.

championc

While the TV Display is 1080p HD capable, are you 100% sure that the TV DVB-T Tuner is fully HD ? On the Spec in the manual, does it say DVB-T or DVB-T2 ?

Only DVB-T2 supports HD transmissions.

If you set the tuner to UK and have a Freeview HD Tuner onboard, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get all of the relevant UK channels. As The Cush said, it should also see the Irish ones too.

So my guess is that you've got a non-HD Tuner. On the EPG screen, does it say Freeview or FreeviewHD ?

Peter Rhea

championc wrote: »

If you set the tuner to UK and have a Freeview HD Tuner onboard, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get all of the relevant UK channels . . . it should also see the Irish ones too.

There is a very likely reason: it's a Panasonic. Presumably, it would only take a bit of a software tweak to sort it out so it can get all the channels, no matter the country setting but, it probably won't happen unless Saorview actually starts using DVB-T2, rather than just having it as part of the latest spec.

It does get the Freeview HD channels with country set to UK, btw.

championc

I've read some of the OP's posts now and see OK that HD is working for the country selected. So yes, it would seem, we're back to the good auld Panny "interpretation" of standards - as was the case with the G10 and ZD81 (sore subject for some).

Panny wil say the TV performs perfectly for the market it was intended to be used for. FreeviewHD is not for Ireland and so, they will only stand over the UK for this. And they certainly do not sell this for dual country viewing.

Your only chance is to fight with the retailer if you were sold it on the basis that it would indeed do BOTH.

stevo25

Yes the tv will receive HD freeview, and it will receive RTE HD, but not a the same time, hence the whole point of my thread. The TV is over 30 days old so Dad would struggle any chance of an exchange is slim.

championc

Still worth some sort of fight. I bet every other manufacturers models are OK.

winston_1

stevo25 wrote: »

The TV is over 30 days old so Dad would struggle any chance of an exchange is slim.

I find that hard to believe. In the UK the sale of goods act is good for 6 years (5 in Scotland), and during the first 6 months you don't even have to prove it is faulty, the retailer has to prove it is not. Is it much different in Ireland?
Don't forget also that under EU rules a 2 year guarantee applies. You don't have to accept an exchange either, a full refund is what the law states. This means you are in full control when shopping around for a suitable replacement.

Moral of the story. Don't buy Panachronics.

If it is anything like the UK retailers will try to fob you off. A word with the manager or head office with the threat of court action usually solves the problem.

championc

In Ireland, the name of Joe Duffy can bring a grown man to tears

stevo25

Ok if he can secure a swap which TV will do the job? (the retailer is richer sounds in Belfast)

championc

I really think any can

A nice one is the LG 540V which has the added bonus of a built-in Satellite Tuner. Samsungs and LGs I think are more Open to standards so they can sell the same models all over Europe rather than the Panny's where the "B" suffix is British.

Basically, if you called Panny and said you got nothing and you were in Ireland, they'd say tuff luck - it's for UK only use !!

Given you bought from RS, did you contact them via the Boards.ie thread ? You can try the softly personal approach and then go public on the fourm if you don't get the result you need. They are a big Panny seller but they also do their clearence sales of demo models which can be the destination for yours.

Let us know how you get on

Antenna

Has RTE made any representations to Panasonic about this model TX-42ESB TV?

If not they should.

A number of transmitters, Clermont Carn etc, near the border deliberately radiate into NI (in so far as is possible), no doubt it has been at significant expense to RTE.
Now RTE2 will effectively be 'locked-out' for a portion of Northern Ireland viewers (with reception of a Southern transmitters) who get these TVs and prefer to have it in UK mode (to have Freeview HD) over what is purely a software issue (there is no money to be saved in manufacture, it is not a hardware issue as DVB-T2 hardware is backward compatible with DVB-T ).

BTW interesting thread about this on digitalspy:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=68422881#post68422881

championc

An MOU was done in 2009 I believe so the first notions of shared airspace date back to then.

Panny are alone and will not change. You would think they would have by now but alas, it seems they are still afraid of compatibility issues if running a UK model in Ireland

What you actualy needed was an E (European) model which I am quite sure the Irish retaillers sell. I bet an E would work perfectly in terms of scanning all channels but the TV wouldn't have the FreeviewHD EPG or the MHEG5, but will scan and understand everything it sees.

bridster007

The Panasonic PVR and BluRay recorder range receive both Saorview HD and Freeview HD at the same time on one EPG. So strange they can't use same software for all the Tv ranges.
But to put it all in perspective, I don't think its such a big deal not to have HD as the picture quality on SD is so good .

winston_1

bridster007 wrote: »

But to put it all in perspective, I don't think its such a big deal not to have HD as the picture quality on SD is so good .

Hm, I thought RTE2 was HD only. And I believe RTE 1 will be HD only in the near future.

stevo25

bridster007 wrote: »

The Panasonic PVR and BluRay recorder range receive both Saorview HD and Freeview HD at the same time on one EPG. So strange they can't use same software for all the Tv ranges.
But to put it all in perspective, I don't think its such a big deal not to have HD as the picture quality on SD is so good .

When buying a HD tv (1080) I want some programming at least

bridster007

winston_1 wrote: »

Hm, I thought RTE2 was HD only. And I believe RTE 1 will be HD only in the near future.

So he can set it to Ireland mode. There is no plan for unique HD programming in NI AFAIK.

OP has no legitimate claim for a replacement or refund but may get a goodwill gesture as RS in NI are good to deal with.

Peter Rhea

bridster007 wrote: »

. . . I don't think its such a big deal not to have HD as the picture quality on SD is so good .

You know, you might be in a minority of 1 in that belief . . .

bridster007

Peter Rhea wrote: »

You know, you might be in a minority of 1 in that belief . . .

probably...reminds me of that Movie ( was it called Avatar ?) that everyone watched because it was nice looking in HD rather than because of the movie itself.
HD is nice but the program quality is much more important. And as I said, SD on modern Tv's is pretty good, especially on Panasonics. Eastenders in HD is still as bad as Eastenders in SD.:D

Peter Rhea

Avatar attracted attention because of 3D.

There's no comparison between SD & HD, modern tv or not.

championc

The next time the BBC are showing Formula1, flick between the SD and HD channels and you'll have no choice but to concede defeat with your argument. You could also do the same during any wildlife programme, which, in my opinion, is where HD really comes into it's own.

stevo25

championc wrote: »

The next time the BBC are showing Formula1, flick between the SD and HD channels and you'll have no choice but to concede defeat with your argument. You could also do the same during any wildlife programme, which, in my opinion, is where HD really comes into it's own.

your right but i think bridster was talking about style over substance

championc

I think he's an avid EastEnders watcher. If the broadcast quality is twice as good in HD, does that mean the entertainment value doubles too

winston_1

bridster007 wrote: »

So he can set it to Ireland mode. There is no plan for unique HD programming in NI AFAIK.

OP has no legitimate claim for a replacement or refund but may get a goodwill gesture as RS in NI are good to deal with.

Then he won't get Freeview HD!

If the OP was told it would do what he wants he has a legitimate claim for a refund. Under SOGA you do not have to accept a replacement anyway only a refund. As I said earlier during the first 6 months the retailer has to prove it is not faulty.

stevo25

An update, Dad has spoken to manger of richer sounds, who said he'd speak to the MD who lives in Dublin to see what can be done or what TV would be suitable as he has "lots of tv's all over his house"
we will see how this progresses

bridster007

winston_1 wrote: »

Then he won't get Freeview HD!


If the OP was told it would do what he wants he has a legitimate claim for a refund. Under SOGA you do not have to accept a replacement anyway only a refund. As I said earlier during the first 6 months the retailer has to prove it is not faulty.

You missed my point, by setting it to Ireland he gets all stations, just the UK ones won't be in HD. But he misses no programs.

What part of SOGA was broken ? TV was not sold as Saorview certified. It works as described and receives FV HD. It would be thrown out of court. UK court would not be interested in Irish TV viewers who just happen to be able to get UK TV for free. That's makey uppy law you are quoting.
I also get tired of people who threaten every retailer with Joe Duffy.

People in Border areas are well used to buying cross border and should know things don't always match.
Try matching NI copper piping with ours.

stevo25

bridster007 wrote: »

You missed my point, by setting it to Ireland he gets all stations, just the UK ones won't be in HD. But he misses no programs.

What part of SOGA was broken ? TV was not sold as Saorview certified. It works as described and receives FV HD. It would be thrown out of court. UK court would not be interested in Irish TV viewers who just happen to be able to get UK TV for free. That's makey uppy law you are quoting.
I also get tired of people who threaten every retailer with Joe Duffy.

People in Border areas are well used to buying cross border and should know things don't always match.
Try matching NI copper piping with ours.

the tv was sold as a HD tv, and at no point was there discussed any issue of not receiving HD uk or Saorview HD AT THE SAME TIME

bridster007

stevo25 wrote: »

the tv was sold as a HD tv, and at no point was there discussed any issue of not receiving HD uk or Saorview HD AT THE SAME TIME

Richersounds are a UK company. They have no obligation to discuss the TV's operation outside the UK. They likely can't receive SV from a ROI transmitter in NI so how would they be expected to know and test each item of equipment they sell ? They sell based on the manufacturers' certification of the equipment.

No court would accept that a TV should be expected to work perfectly across 2 different transmission systems unless it was certified to do so. It's not certified to do so.
AFAIK it is not even Saorview certified. Your Dad knew that when buying. Therefore he has no legal case despite the wishy washy "legal advice" being thrown about.
As I said before, Richersounds may do something for him as they are a good crowd. But they have no obligation to do so.

My guess is that he went to NI to buy a cheaper TV, not to specifically buy one with FV HD.

Many people have bought either TV's or recorders that on paper seem to work with both SV and FV but find that in the detail there are problems. Examples abound from all the major manufacturers.

stevo25

bridster007 wrote: »

Richersounds are a UK company.

really?
https://www.richersounds.ie/

Peter Rhea

bridster007 wrote: »

. . . No court would accept that a TV should be expected to work perfectly across 2 different transmission systems unless it was certified to do so. It's not certified to do so.
AFAIK it is not even Saorview certified.

TX-L42E5B is Saorview approved. So is the E6B, as it's referred to in post #5.

championc

It's very simple - the OP's only gripe can be with the retailer and it could be a "your word against mine" and the basis of what was promised vs what the TV can actually do.

The Panny set is sold as a FreeviewHD unit and does it do this job - yes. Are you trying to use the TV for a purpose other than the one the manufacturer intented - yes.

That is simply why it is then simply a dispute with the retailer and nobody else. So if RS offer a Goodwill gesture, I'd take their hands off if I was you.

stevo25

championc wrote: »

It's very simple - the OP's only gripe can be with the retailer and it could be a "your word against mine" and the basis of what was promised vs what the TV can actually do.

The Panny set is sold as a FreeviewHD unit and does it do this job - yes. Are you trying to use the TV for a purpose other than the one the manufacturer intented - yes.

That is simply why it is then simply a dispute with the retailer and nobody else. So if RS offer a Goodwill gesture, I'd take their hands off if I was you.

court hasnt been mentioned. championc your missing the point, it was sold that it would do the job we asked ie HD uk and HD Saorview at the same time.

Does anyone have any knowledge about any New TV out there that will do what we require??

winston_1

bridster007 wrote: »

What part of SOGA was broken ? TV was not sold as Saorview certified.

I don't know how the TV was sold, but if he was told it would do what he wanted, i.e. get both Freeview and Saorview at the same time he certainly has a case as the SOGA say items must be as described.

So what sizes does copper tube come in in Ireland then?

EDIT. Don't bother to answer that, I just Googled it, 14.7mm, 21mm. Hm, why?

championc

The thing is that you will never see any Panny litetature mentioning connectivity to both which is why I said the hope of a resolution lies with the Retailer only.

As far as which models will do both, RS should know.

As for the copper pipe, UK - 15mm, Irish - 1/2"

tomjoad

Stevo, in post #1 you say it is a E5B model but post # 5 you say E6B model.
Could you confirm which it is ?

I spoke to Panasonic today and they said all the E6B series are approved with Saorview 2013 DVB-T2 spec and would work for HD in both systems.
They confirmed the E5B was pre 2013 approval.

stevo25

@ tomjoad DOH! it is the later the E6B slimmer bezel and silver. it does work for both systems SEPARATELY, but we would rather it does both standards at the same time

tomjoad

stevo25 wrote: »

@ tomjoad DOH! it is the later the E6B slimmer bezel and silver. it does work for both systems SEPARATELY, but we would rather it does both standards at the same time

Thanks Stevo, that's very disappointing.
I assumed since it was approved to the 2013 Saorview T2 spec that it would be ok for both systems simultaneously and that your problem was only pre-2013 approvals.
It's a lovely neat looking TV.

winston_1

As has been stated on these forums several times Panasonic are bad news in this respect.

bridster007

winston_1 wrote: »

As has been stated on these forums several times Panasonic are bad news in this respect.

noted the PVRs work though

fryup

recently bought a tv with built in freeview....will i pick up the uk channels through it?

i'm in the midwest near limerick

if so do i need an aerial or satellite ??

Thurston?

fryup wrote: »

recently bought a tv with built in freeview....will i pick up the uk channels through it?

i'm in the midwest near limerick

if so do i need an aerial or satellite ??

Freeview is the UK terrestrial service. You won't get it 'near Limerick'.

Only hope of getting the UK channels would be if there is a satellite tuner built in: post the make & model of the TV.