Orwellian or appropriate?

Grolschevik

I can see the merits, but it makes me a little uneasy too...

Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has said that legislation enabling the establishment of a DNA database is virtually complete. Speaking at the launch of Dublin Rape Crisis Centre’s annual report at the end of July, Mr Shatter said that he expected to publish the DNA Database Bill in September. It is expected that the database will be operational by next year.

The minister said that a DNA database would revolutionise the detection of sex crime in Ireland. “Our database will hold the DNA profiles of every person convicted of any offence that attracts a sentence of five years or more, which covers rape and most sexual offences,” he said. “On top of that, people serving prison sentences when the legislation is enacted will also have their profiles put on the database.”

Manach

Going down the road of Orwellian. In that once the database is in place, then it is just a minor matter of new legislation to collect samples from people charge but not convicted etc. As well, there is the data privacy issues. The state is not the most safe holder of personal data, as per incidents of family data that was mislaid in the UK with details of 25M people.

Ken.

"every person convicted of any offence that attracts a sentence of five years or more"

Explain attracts please. Does it mean if I imported a tonne of heroin that attracts a 10 year sentence but the judge gives me 4 years 11 months is my DNA on a list or not?.

Fred Swanson

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Bepolite

The implications of this are much more wide ranging then people realise. On the one hand it can be welcomed, assuming access to the database will be available for the exoneration of people who have suffered a miscarriage of justice, however it's still a rather bizarre act to be passing given the woefully inadequate storage of evidence post conviction.

The other issues surround the complete misunderstanding many people have over DNA and the various types of profiling used. Ireland uses a fairly old type of DNA profiling, and I doubt there are any plans to update that even when this database finally goes live.

It's not magic bullet either, as if we the DNA profiling types aren't compatible you don't get any match on the database. I don't believe the Bill addresses some of the the controversial search methods. This is in addition to the massive issues not having access to the original evidence will create for potential future convictions and bodies that attempt to exonerate those claiming to be victims of miscarriages of justice.

The Bill is purely a 'look at us we have one too' effort, and it's going to be very interesting to see what comes of it over the next decade or so.

johnnyskeleton

Rape allegations against an unknown assailant are less than 5% of total rape allegations. Not all of these result in a sample sufficiently capable of producing a DNA sample. Not all stranger rapists have previous convictions.

So this DNA database is invasive of the privacy rights of many citizens and, more importantly is going to cost a few million a year, which might result in perhaps a less than 1% chance of finding an offender. Think of how many extra gardai could be got for the same money - 20-30. Surely they would have a greater effect on investigations.

Fred Swanson

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Kristopherus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Would be no harm at all if it helped with the detection & conviction of the many scumbags roaming the country:(

johnnyskeleton

Kristopherus wrote: »

Would be no harm at all if it helped with the detection & conviction of the many scumbags roaming the country:(

Why don't you volunteer your own DNA to them then? If you are happy to have a system which breaches our privacy rights, I'm sure you're happy to go first?

Pat Mustard

ken wrote: »

"every person convicted of any offence that attracts a sentence of five years or more"

Explain attracts please. Does it mean if I imported a tonne of heroin that attracts a 10 year sentence but the judge gives me 4 years 11 months is my DNA on a list or not?.

It refers to crimes carrying a minimum sentence of 5 years as far as I understand, but I only read the LRC summary of the consultation paper.

The DNA profiles of persons suspected of committing serious crimes (usually those carrying a possible minimum sentence of at least 5 years, for example murder, rape and burglary) may be retained on the database indefinitely.

For those with the inclination, the LRC consultation paper and report.

seamus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Slippery slope fallacy.

hullaballoo

seamus wrote: »

Slippery slope fallacy.

He said he "can see this being extended", which is his opinion rather than a conclusion based on logic or critical thinking.

Also, I'm inclined to agree with him.

Manach

Slippery slopes occur when there is nothing preventing the movement under the power of gravity. Possible road-dumps might be EU regulations, which as far as I remember there was talk of a 'Right to be forgotten' under the auspices EU data protection regulation, where personal data that is no longer needed of legitimate purposes should be deleted. It would be up to the state to defend the proportionality of this.

Cody Pomeray

Another road block is S and Marper v UK.

And to a certain extent, bring on the slippery slope.