Inside the Ropes - County Louth

Kevinmarkham

It's taken a while (my fault entirely), but we finally managed to get out on County Louth over the weekend. Thanks to JCDUB, thewobbler and Daniel for making the trip - the day was kind but the golf wasn't.

Here's the blog as well as links to the full photoset and a couple of videos.

FixdePitchmark

Nice review kevin and the lads.

Surprised it didnt get 8/9 out of ten. But, there you go ,that is the subjectivity of golf courses for you.


Again the over 100 euro mark seems a big ask for most Irish golfers.

the anser

Very good blog Kevin, gives a good feel for the course. I agree with Fixde.......€100 is very steep, even for this course.

sydneybound

Great review as always Kevin.

I know we had a good summer in patches but from looking at the photos the course looks really burnt. Although I haven't played County Louth it doesn't look overly exciting and flat for large parts. The lads were right about the €120 green fee, would love to know how many Irish people pay that amount for a round however that said who cares about the Irish market if the American market is alive and well and they are willing to pay full whack.

loadwire

sydneybound wrote: »

Great review as always Kevin.

I know we had a good summer in patches but from looking at the photos the course looks really burnt.

Agree, a while since I've played it but the fairways look very scorched in places, don't remember it being like that in the past. Even more than most links, it can seem very benign without wind.

thewobbler

Thanks again for the invite Kevin, a very enjoyable day out in excellent company.

On my way home I wondered if I'd been a bit harsh awarding 'just' 7.5/10 to Baltray. After all, the experts always find a way to make it into Ireland's top 10. But as nothing about the course has particularly stood out in my mind since, then I guess it is about right.

Ironically, I think I would have enjoyed it more if the wind have been up, for no other reason than to see how the holes play differently to their yardages.

In terms of value, €120/€100 is a bridge too far here. The course is very good and the condition was very good - fairways looked burnt, but I found (on the 3-4 occasions I made them!) they were very playable. But when playing a course demanding this sort of outlay, I expect greater attention to detail; tee boxes with steps, and manicured to an inch of their life, yardage markers on drains, signage that fits with the arena. Things that have very little to do with golf, but all to do with golf experience, which is what you're paying for. It doesn't have the natural experience of RCD or Sandy Hills, so should work hard to make everything else right.

Personally I'd also have Portmarnock Links above it, which I think shocked Kevin a little. But I really must play both again before confirming big statements like that.

Kevinmarkham

Thanks for the replies

The overall view is that it's too pricey. I wouldn't disagree that €120 is steep and I do wonder how the green fee is balanced between Irish golfers and golfing tourists (Americans specifically). This is not unique to County Louth. Pat Ruddy said once that he had to increase green fees at The European to be taken seriously by the Americans... and there's the famous story about The Island's green fees: I don't know the exact figures as it goes back several years, but they couldn't attract American golfers to the course so they brought in a consultant to advise them. He told them that the Americans wouldn't look at a course if it wasn't over $100 a round.

The Island had to double their green fee to achieve that - but they did, and the Americans started coming. I'm sure there are variations on that story, and someone on Boards may have a more 'inside' story, but it demonstrates just how important the US market is to Irish links courses. It's a shame for those of us living here who can only splash out once in a while, but clubs get run as businesses these days... and you do get discounted GUI rates.

As for the photos and the 'burnt' look. That's a fact of life for links courses. There aren't many that have sprinkler systems on fairways. Take a look at this Rosslare photo (and the rest) and the entire place, bar the greens, was scorched (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinmarkham/9378988652/in/set-72157621927447831/lightbox/)

mike12

The Americans are only starting to realise that you don't have to pay over $100 to play a top Irish Links course. The courses in the North West have had a lot of Publicity from a guy from golf digest i think and are becoming more popular. The Captain in Enniscrone was telling me a couple of years ago that they were too cheap to attract Americans and the European have opens every day of the week so we can play it for €60 but he can charge the Americans the full whack.
Kevin may be best to comment as i haven't played any of the courses in the sount west but from Carne up to Ballyliffen there are some super courses where the green fee is less than half of those in the South and East.

Mike

Kevinmarkham

thewobbler wrote: »

Personally I'd also have Portmarnock Links above it, which I think shocked Kevin a little. But I really must play both again before confirming big statements like that.

I 'little' shocked! I still battle over which of the two Portmarnocks I'd prefer to play, and that shocks plenty of people, too.

As for the whole golf experience and the 'extras', I'll just say this: I played a Scottish links called Machrahanish a few years back and there were no extras anywhere. There were no sprinkler heads on the fairways, no 100 or 150 yard markers - you had to do everything by eye/judgement... and it remains one of the most thrilling rounds I've ever played. It was £40 but I'd have paid £100 to do it again.

Kevinmarkham

mike12 wrote: »

The Americans are only starting to realise that you don't have to pay over $100 to play a top Irish Links course. The courses in the North West have had a lot of Publicity from a guy from golf digest i think and are becoming more popular. The Captain in Enniscrone was telling me a couple of years ago that they were too cheap to attract Americans and the European have opens every day of the week so we can play it for €60 but he can charge the Americans the full whack.
Kevin may be best to comment as i haven't played any of the courses in the sount west but from Carne up to Ballyliffen there are some super courses where the green fee is less than half of those in the South and East.

Mike

Mike, if I could give you three 'thanks' on your post I would do. I suspect the American writer you're talking about is David Owen. He loves that stretch of links. And from Connemara to Ballyliffin, it remains the best value in Irish links golf - by some margin.

TrapperChamonix

sydneybound wrote: »

Great review as always Kevin.

I know we had a good summer in patches but from looking at the photos the course looks really burnt. Although I haven't played County Louth it doesn't look overly exciting and flat for large parts. The lads were right about the €120 green fee, would love to know how many Irish people pay that amount for a round however that said who cares about the Irish market if the American market is alive and well and they are willing to pay full whack.

I can't speak for Baltray, but many links who have sprinkler systems are going back to the practice of not watering the fairways in the summer. Reasons given are, it gives a truer links experience, ecologically friendly, less maintenance (grass doesn't need cutting) and in particular it is to discourage non links grasses which die in the drought conditions while the fescue goes dormant and comes back once the rain returns. My memories of watching British Open through the years (Norman and Lyle) is that Royal St Georges always had burnt fairways. I believe Princes and R Cinque Ports are the same
I for one am a fan of this approach.

thewobbler

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

As for the whole golf experience and the 'extras', I'll just say this: I played a Scottish links called Machrahanish a few years back and there were no extras anywhere. There were no sprinkler heads on the fairways, no 100 or 150 yard markers - you had to do everything by eye/judgement... and it remains one of the most thrilling rounds I've ever played. It was £40 but I'd have paid £100 to do it again.

I agree with you, if the core product hits the right notes, then it's simply worth the money and the add-ons become superfluous/nice-to-haves.

A horrible analogy perhaps, but the very best hairdressers don't need to provide complimentary drinks and head massages to justify their big fees. Those on the next rung down, if they want to charge similar fees, really should be providing a few add-ons.

Ally McIntosh

Well said TrapperChamonix,

Baltray is one of my favourite courses - it is comfortably Top 10 in Ireland. In particular, I think the two stretches from 3 to 7 and 12 to 16 rank with any in the country. And that accounts for 10 of the 18 holes.

Tom Simpson designed it back in the 30's and he's inspired me more than any other architect. If you've an interest in design, try out his book with Newton Wethered "The Architectural Side of Golf".

Keep up the good work, Kevin...

Kevinmarkham

thewobbler wrote: »

A horrible analogy perhaps, but the very best hairdressers don't need to provide complimentary drinks and head massages to justify their big fees. Those on the next rung down, if they want to charge similar fees, really should be providing a few add-ons.

Nope, can't relate to that analogy... would probably help if I had hair.

Kevinmarkham

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

I can't speak for Baltray, but many links who have sprinkler systems are going back to the practice of not watering the fairways in the summer. Reasons given are, it gives a truer links experience, ecologically friendly, less maintenance (grass doesn't need cutting) and in particular it is to discourage non links grasses which die in the drought conditions while the fescue goes dormant and comes back once the rain returns. My memories of watching British Open through the years (Norman and Lyle) is that Royal St Georges always had burnt fairways. I believe Princes and R Cinque Ports are the same
I for one am a fan of this approach.

Nicely put. A little education goes a long way. Thanks

Roger_007

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Mike, if I could give you three 'thanks' on your post I would do. I suspect the American writer you're talking about is David Owen. He loves that stretch of links. And from Connemara to Ballyliffin, it remains the best value in Irish links golf - by some margin.

I would regard the West/North West links courses as by far the best value links golf in the country. I played the Donegal Links comp this year, (Sandy Hills, Portsalon and Ballyliffin). It was €100 for three of the best days golf I've ever had on superb courses. Last year I played Carne, Enniscrone and Rosses Point in a similar comp for €125. There is the added bonus of the most spectacular scenery you will ever see.
I played County Louth on a freebee about a month ago and as far as I am concerned €180 would be an obscene amount to pay for what is a fairly bland course compared to any of the above. (I would not rate it much above Seapoint next door which you can play for €20 in an open comp any week).
However, if the yanks are prepared to pay, good luck to them. I wouldn't pay it, nor would any of my friends.

ThunderCat

Must be on my own here lads, but I don't find Baltray bland at all. Granted it doesn't have the dunes that Carne has or the sea views of Ballybunion etc. but you shouldn't expect it too. What it does have are some of the best green complexes in the country. Just look at the 6th and 14th - links perfection in my book.

mike12

I get to play Baltray a couple of times a year as I know a member. On the east coast it is behind RCD, The European, The Island, both Portmarnocks so the 6th best on the east coast for me. St. Andrews is the only course i have paid over €100 for and there are very few other that i would pay that for, by the way it was brown and burnt when we played it.
Think distance markers on links courses are pretty useless if it is windy. Decent tee boxes, fairways and greens are all that are really important I could be paying in a shead and as long as the course was good it wouldn't bring down my rating of it.
Mike

sydneybound

mike12 wrote: »

I get to play Baltray a couple of times a year as I know a member. On the east coast it is behind RCD, The European, The Island, both Portmarnocks so the 6th best on the east coast for me.

Out of a matter of interest, partly as I have not played the course, how would you compare Baltray to a course in the West like County Sligo? I say Sligo as it would be unfair to compare Baltray to Enniscrone or Carne as both have dramatic landscape and Sligo is a little flater in places so might be a better comparison. The green fee at Sligo is €95 and on a side note is my favourite course in the West!

mike12

sydneybound wrote: »

Out of a matter of interest, partly as I have not played the course, how would you compare Baltray to a course in the West like County Sligo? I say Sligo as it would be unfair to compare Baltray to Enniscrone or Carne as both have dramatic landscape and Sligo is a little flater in places so might be a better comparison. The green fee at Sligo is €95 and on a side note is my favourite course in the West!

Courses are a fair comparison, the scenery around Sligo would be far better along with the sea views. Wouldn't have thought Sligo was that expensive have played it 3 times in the Atlantic Coast and the rough has been so different each year. But I would prefer Carne and Enniscrone.
At the moment think the rough in Baltray is gone too far. We don't have ball spotters so rough where u have no hope of finding your ball a couple of yards off the fairway is a bit unfair.
Both courses are out in front of u with no blind shots and are 2 super courses just i would prefer the links with bigger dunes.

Mike

sydneybound

mike12 wrote: »

Courses are a fair comparison, the scenery around Sligo would be far better along with the sea views. Wouldn't have thought Sligo was that expensive have played it 3 times in the Atlantic Coast and the rough has been so different each year. At the moment think the rough in Baltray is gone too far. We don't have ball spotters so rough where u have no hope of finding your ball a couple of yards off the fairway is a bit unfair.

Can't speak about Baltray but I played County Sligo a few days after the Atlantic Coast event and found the rough very unfair. I had 35 points that day but had two miscued two drives that went slightly into the right handside rough and holes 5 & 8 and lost both balls. Both times off the tee I was sure I would find them as they were not shocking drives just a little off course but to my disbelief our group couldn't locate them. Anyway the course was majestic that day with my only complaint the rough, Baltray but be something similar I presume.

How did you find the rough when you played at Sligo during the Atlantic Coast?

mike12

sydneybound wrote: »

Can't speak about Baltray but I played County Sligo a few days after the Atlantic Coast event and found the rough very unfair. I had 35 points that day but had two miscued two drives that went slightly into the right handside rough and holes 5 & 8 and lost both balls. Both times off the tee I was sure I would find them as they were not shocking drives just a little off course but to my disbelief our group couldn't locate them. Anyway the course was majestic that day with my only complaint the rough, Baltray but be something similar I presume.

How did you find the rough when you played at Sligo during the Atlantic Coast?

We only lost a couple of balls between us and they were a long way off line. It seemed fair enough.