Fat Irish kids/ teenagers

Doom

A lot of talk about this been a huge problem right now, at first I just thought maybe a few odd kids, but lately I've noticed a lot of kids who are huge, boys with moobs and nearly beer guts, the girls are the worst with moobs on the back of their shoulders, big legs and arms.
I really feel sorry for them, wait until they hit their late 30s, when most people put on a few pounds....
Seriously where are the social services, these kids hardly make their own dinners etc, so it must be the lazy parents feeding them crap food!
Schools need to get involved too, stop them leaving school grounds at lunchtime to chomp supermacs/ breakfast rolls everyday.
Seriously people take notice, the fat kids are nearly more in number than healthy kids....

seosamh1980

I saw a girl of about 10 or 11 buy herself an entire tub of Pringles and start eating them like a pack of crisps, which is what her friends were all having. She was big already, how do you get to the point of thinking an entire tub is a single serving, and by 10 years old?? Depressing.

Doom

Ya, seen a young lad with a 2 litre of coke, drinking it like a 500ml bottle....insane.
Imagine all the diabetic problems in a few yrs.

syklops

Doom wrote: »

A lot of talk about this been a huge problem right now, at first I just thought maybe a few odd kids, but lately I've noticed a lot of kids who are huge, boys with moobs and nearly beer guts, the girls are the worst with moobs on the back of their shoulders, big legs and arms.
I really feel sorry for them, wait until they hit their late 30s, when most people put on a few pounds....
Seriously where are the social services, these kids hardly make their own dinners etc, so it must be the lazy parents feeding them crap food!
Schools need to get involved too, stop them leaving school grounds at lunchtime to chomp supermacs/ breakfast rolls everyday.
Seriously people take notice, the fat kids are nearly more in number than healthy kids....

I was recently living next to a college, and I found it a bit of an eye opener.

When I was young, it was common for someone you knew to go off to college and come back having put on a bit of weight having discovered pints, pizzas, and being too hungover to go training on a Sunday which they would normally do.

The eye opener for me was the number of freshers who were arriving with obvious weight problems. Im not talking about girls who were a bit curvy, but girls with big arms as a result.

I thought living next to a college would be great. All these young girls around. I gotta say, there weren't very many Irish girls I admired. As the OP said, it wasn't one or two either. Its not like an 80s cartoon where there was the one fat kid, it wasn't even 50/50, it was the majority. Its quite worrying really.

KTRIC

Sure aren't they just "average" !!

Doom

KTRIC wrote: »

Sure aren't they just "average" !!

As in fat kids are now the "average" if so ya, I would say that.

y0ssar1an22

i'd say the main problem is that kids dont play outside anymore, and get exercise while doing it. they just sit in front of a computer for hours on end.

runawaybishop

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i'd say the main problem is that kids dont play outside anymore, and get exercise while doing it. they just sit in front of a computer for hours on end.

I'd say the main problem is they eat too much, exercise is always secondary to diet. Parents are to blame, they lack basic education on nutrition. They also, it seems, lack the ability to tell their fat kids to stop eating ****e.

syklops

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i'd say the main problem is that kids dont play outside anymore, and get exercise while doing it. they just sit in front of a computer for hours on end.

Theres a number of contributory things. Like with all things weight related there is no silver bullet. As recent enough as the mid 90's houses were cold. Very cold in winter, and chilly in the summer, so people expelled energy keeping warm. Schools were freezing.

To be honest as a kid, I didn't play outside very much and I didnt run around very much. I was more indoorsy, and enjoyed reading, watching tv or fiddling with the computer, and I was very slim. As well as not running around much I simply didnt have access to sweet food. All the food I ate was prepared at home. I went to McDonalds once a year. Admittedly I didnt have a sweet tooth, I still don't, but my sister who could eat her weight in chocolate if allowed was also slim. She wasn't allowed to though.

Nowadays, as well as less running around, kids have access to way more sugary foods then we did. Its the norm to get dairylea or a mars mini in your lunch box where as we never did. Schools and homes are well insulated and aren't as cold and many kids get driven to school in nice warm cars. Even the cars were cold when I was growing up.

clumsyklutz

My parents were very strict on myself and my brothers growing up, absolutely no sugary cereal, no juices, fizzy drinks or chocolate during the week and either bar of choc or can of 7up as a treat at the weekends.

Now, I am by no means slim at the moment (size 14), but that's because of my own poor choices and I'm getting back in shape, so not having chocolate and crap doesn't bother me.

My two younger brothers are two of the fittest teenagers I know, one even goes to the gym several times a week just because he can't stand being inside glued to his phone for long.

Then I look at families etc around the area I live in now, and you just see pure laziness, I've often seen families doing most of their weekly shop out of the freezer section, with their unbeliveably overweight kids throwing more crap into the trolley and nobody bats an eyelid.

It really is down to the parents to instill healthy food attitudes in their children.

WHIP IT!

syklops wrote: »

I was recently living next to a college, and I found it a bit of an eye opener.

When I was young, it was common for someone you knew to go off to college and come back having put on a bit of weight having discovered pints, pizzas, and being too hungover to go training on a Sunday which they would normally do.

The eye opener for me was the number of freshers who were arriving with obvious weight problems. Im not talking about girls who were a bit curvy, but girls with big arms as a result.

I thought living next to a college would be great. All these young girls around. I gotta say, there weren't very many Irish girls I admired. As the OP said, it wasn't one or two either. Its not like an 80s cartoon where there was the one fat kid, it wasn't even 50/50, it was the majority. Its quite worrying really.

If those girls need any motivation to lose the weight you say they're carrying - then the desire to out-run the creepy guy next door is surely top of the list...

seamus

seosamh1980 wrote: »

I saw a girl of about 10 or 11 buy herself an entire tub of Pringles and start eating them like a pack of crisps, which is what her friends were all having. She was big already, how do you get to the point of thinking an entire tub is a single serving, and by 10 years old?? Depressing.

It's not really about servings.

Kids will eat until they're full. If it's something they really like, they will eat well beyond the point of fullness. Children don't have self-control, they don't really understand the concept of portion control. If you give a child a box of pringles, they will eat them all.

Serving control has to come from the parents.

MrStuffins

syklops wrote: »

Theres a number of contributory things. Like with all things weight related there is no silver bullet. As recent enough as the mid 90's houses were cold. Very cold in winter, and chilly in the summer, so people expelled energy keeping warm. Schools were freezing.

To be honest as a kid, I didn't play outside very much and I didnt run around very much. I was more indoorsy, and enjoyed reading, watching tv or fiddling with the computer, and I was very slim. As well as not running around much I simply didnt have access to sweet food. All the food I ate was prepared at home. I went to McDonalds once a year. Admittedly I didnt have a sweet tooth, I still don't, but my sister who could eat her weight in chocolate if allowed was also slim. She wasn't allowed to though.

Nowadays, as well as less running around, kids have access to way more sugary foods then we did. Its the norm to get dairylea or a mars mini in your lunch box where as we never did. Schools and homes are well insulated and aren't as cold and many kids get driven to school in nice warm cars. Even the cars were cold when I was growing up.

Dude, kids aren't fat because of central heating!

syklops

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dude, kids aren't fat because of central heating!

The first sentence in my post was:

Theres a number of contributory things

Did you miss that bit?

Have you anything more to contribute to the discussion?

Backstreet Moyes

I think perceptions has a big part to play in it. Maybe their is some truth to it but i think it's a myth the excuse oh all my family are big it's in my genes. You hear a friend giving out oh that girl is lucky she has good genes. Leaving out the part she eats healthy and goes to the gym.

It's hardly coincidence that mot fat kids have fat parents and majority of skinny kids have skinny parents. Parents are too blame if they are overweight and over eating they are most likely over feeding their kids also. It's sad because a parent should set an example being overweight is irresponsible when your a parent i think because your child will pick it up from you.

From my personal experience my dad was always skinny but my mother was very heavy years ago. As a result i was doing what she was doing and was overweight as a kid. A few years ago she coped on and started leading a very healthy lifestyle and lost 5 or 6 stone. The meal plans changed and i lost weight also and got big into exercising. From my personal experience anyway i think the parents are to blame for this lifestyle.

seosamh1980

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think perceptions has a big part to play in it. Maybe their is some truth to it but i think it's a myth the excuse oh all my family are big it's in my genes.

"Obesity runs in my family" "Nothing runs in your family, that's the problem!" :pac:

markomuscle

At a GAA game I was at recently I saw a boy aged about 11-12 who would most likely be classified as obese, he was doing some serious celebrating when the team scored but when his father (very thin) gave him money for the shop he disappeared for 20 minutes, probably the most important period of the game.

MrStuffins

syklops wrote: »

The first sentence in my post was:



Did you miss that bit?

Have you anything more to contribute to the discussion?

No, I didn't miss that part, but I think you're making out that having heating i your house or in your car is a big contributor to kids being fat. It's not. Maybe it contributes a little, but not enough.

Parents are to blame, schools are to blame, society is to blame.

Bord Gais is not to blame.

markomuscle

Doom wrote: »

Ya, seen a young lad with a 2 litre of coke, drinking it like a 500ml bottle....insane.
Imagine all the diabetic problems in a few yrs.

it's tesco's fault,2 litre bottles are cheaper than 500ml nowadays, I do it myself but always choose sugar free

Stench Blossoms

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think perceptions has a big part to play in it. Maybe their is some truth to it but i think it's a myth the excuse oh all my family are big it's in my genes. You hear a friend giving out oh that girl is lucky she has good genes. Leaving out the part she eats healthy and goes to the gym.

It's hardly coincidence that mot fat kids have fat parents and majority of skinny kids have skinny parents. Parents are too blame if they are overweight and over eating they are most likely over feeding their kids also. It's sad because a parent should set an example being overweight is irresponsible when your a parent i think because your child will pick it up from you.

From my personal experience my dad was always skinny but my mother was very heavy years ago. As a result i was doing what she was doing and was overweight as a kid. A few years ago she coped on and started leading a very healthy lifestyle and lost 5 or 6 stone. The meal plans changed and i lost weight also and got big into exercising. From my personal experience anyway i think the parents are to blame for this lifestyle.

Just to add perspective to this.

My parents are both obese.

Myself and sister are not. I'm a normal weight, my sister is underweight.

Backstreet Moyes

markomuscle wrote: »

it's tesco's fault,2 litre bottles are cheaper than 500ml nowadays, I do it myself but always choose sugar free

It's not just Tesco it's every supermarket. All the best deals are on coke, multi packs of crisp's, sweets, chocolate etc. You rarely see good deals on good wholesome foods.

Backstreet Moyes

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Just to add perspective to this.

My parents are both obese.

Myself and sister are not. I'm a normal weight, my sister is underweight.

If you read back again i said the majority. Not everybody who has fat parents are going to be fat. But the majority are from my experience so i don;t see your point.

Alf Veedersane

markomuscle wrote: »

it's tesco's fault,2 litre bottles are cheaper than 500ml nowadays, I do it myself but always choose sugar free

They shouldn't ba having cola all that often for a start. If they're choosing to have 2L instead of 500ml on a regular basis, the fault isn't Tesco's.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Watching those documentaries on BBC the "men who made us fat" seems to say that kid are no more or less active than they were 30 years ago, its all diet. Processed food is one casue but portion size is a major factor.

I do intermittant fasting with my own kids, I starve them for days on end, and once they start gnawing on the dog I feed them beansprouts.....but seriously I was a fat kid...not fun.

Alf Veedersane

Emiliano Glamorous Wagon wrote: »

Watching those documentaries on BBC the "men who made us fat" seems to say that kid are no more or less active than they were 30 years ago, its all diet. Processed food is one casue but portion size is a major factor.

I do intermittant fasting with my own kids, I starve them for days on end, and once they start gnawing on the dog I feed them beansprouts.....but seriously I was a fat kid...not fun.

You don't see kids out playing on the street all that often in the same way as when I was a kid anyway.

Also, it's help a lot of people if they used smaller plates.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You don't see kids out playing on the street all that often in the same way as when I was a kid anyway.

Yeah and the cops are getting younger....the research shows kids do as much outdoor stuff as always, heavy kids don't cause the weight limits them. So basically its not the lack of activity that causes fatness its the fatness that causes lack of activity. Its a interesting point cause its means its purely a diet thing.

Stench Blossoms

Nuts102 wrote: »

If you read back again i said the majority. Not everybody who has fat parents are going to be fat. But the majority are from my experience so i don;t see your point.

I'm giving you an example of the minority.

Gbear

Home Ec that actually teaches about proper nutrition (not food pyramid bull****) should be mandatory all the way until leaving cert.

Learning how to be a functioning adult in terms of feeding and clothing yourself, managing a budget, sexual health and so on are more important than teaching kids maths, science, english or any of the other traditional primary subjects.

Alf Veedersane

Emiliano Glamorous Wagon wrote: »

Yeah and the cops are getting younger....the research shows kids do as much outdoor stuff as always, heavy kids don't cause the weight limits them. So basically its not the lack of activity that causes fatness its the fatness that causes lack of activity. Its a interesting point cause its means its purely a diet thing.

Also interesting because if you assign a chicken to one and egg to t'other, then you can finally answer that age-old question.

But yeah, I see what you mean.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Also interesting because if you assign a chicken to one and egg to t'other, then you can finally answer that age-old question.

But yeah, I see what you mean.

The lack of activity thing is a post hoc fallacy, spouted by manufacturers of processed food to distract us from the truth, its not the food that's bad, its that you don't exercise enough. Jim Coor would be fuming.

Alf Veedersane

Emiliano Glamorous Wagon wrote: »

The lack of activity thing is a post hoc fallacy, spouted by manufacturers of processed food to distract us from the truth, its not the food that's bad, its that you don't exercise enough. Jim Coor would be fuming.

Well, I only considered based on what I see especially when I go down home. There's a big green area beside the houses and you rarely see any of the kids out playing on it. Back in my day we'd all be out there.

But I didn't look at it from the angle of the heavy kids not going out to play because of their size.

seosamh1980

I used to beg my mother for food, BEG. 1.5 hours after a good dinner I'd be claiming I was hungry. She would always tell me I wasn't and to shut up, the rule was if I was still genuinely hungry in another half hour I could have a slice of brown toast, that was it. She really kept a tight rein on what I ate, and to this day will tell me if I've overdone it for a few days, or "Stop now you've had enough" I'm greedy though so I need to be told, keeps me in track. I always think of how small the meals are that my mother eats, when I spend a few days with her I get hungry so clearly I'm eating more when left to my own devices. Parents are too soft and too quick to blame other things, they need to not buy treats/sweets and not give in to greedy cranky children.

Doom

markomuscle wrote: »

it's tesco's fault,2 litre bottles are cheaper than 500ml nowadays, I do it myself but always choose sugar free

Ah thats bollox, if I gave my kid 2euro for a bottle of coke and they came back with a 2 litre for themselves, they would get told off and not be allowed drink it.
They simply know it's wrong and not good for them....educate them in good portions and all that!

conzy

No amount of bull rush or tip the can or whatever kids play these days is going to burn off the calorie surplus a 900 calorie can of pringles generates..

Its 90% to do with poor diet, be it portion size or education as to what foods are actually "healthy"

As a kid I remember having a pain after eating a typical "Irish Mammy" sized portion of Spaghetti Bolognese, and feeling obliged to eat it all because of the catholic guilt..

And as a teen before I had any knowledge about nutrition, a chicken fillet roll / hunky dorys / dairy milk bar and can of coke was a fairly typical lunch, a ~1800 calorie lunch

Alf Veedersane

conzy wrote: »

No amount of bull rush or tip the can or whatever kids play these days is going to burn off the calorie surplus a 900 calorie can of pringles generates..

Obviously, but it doesn't help.

But yes, diet would is the single biggest factor.

Backstreet Moyes

It's portion sizes i went to America a few years ago and i was shocked at the amount of people overweight. It's far worse over their.

I went into a fast food chain and got a quarter pounder meal. The amount of chips were massive and the drink was twice the size of a extra large drink here.

Went for dinner to a restaurant. I ordered the chicken it was around 40 dollars and came with no chips. To my surprise the chicken was a full chicken you buy for your family for dinner.

Went for breakfast. It was 10 dollars for all you can eat. People were running up and down every 5 mins.

Also went to Paris last year and i saw 1 overweight person in the 5 days and it was an American tourist.

markomuscle

Doom wrote: »

Ah thats bollox, if I gave my kid 2euro for a bottle of coke and they came back with a 2 litre for themselves, they would get told off and not be allowed drink it.
They simply know it's wrong and not good for them....educate them in good portions and all that!

yes but when they get older usually what the parents say goes out the window in terms of food and drink, I'm in my mid 20's and eat a normal healthy diet just like i was taught to do growing up but when I see a 500ml drink at £1.20 and then see a 2 litre of the same for a £1 i would go and buy the 2 litre, i'm stingy so maybe i'm not the best example

nice_guy80

work on a till in a supermarket for a week or two

it will open your eyes.
so many parents really don't have a clue what they are feeding their kids (or themselves)

RossieMan

Someone called?

jalan8984

I blame the parents.

syklops

MrStuffins wrote: »

No, I didn't miss that part, but I think you're making out that having heating i your house or in your car is a big contributor to kids being fat. It's not. Maybe it contributes a little, but not enough.

Parents are to blame, schools are to blame, society is to blame.

Bord Gais is not to blame.

I started the post by saying there are a number of contributory things, and that there is no one reason why kids are getting fatter, so how did you then think that I was saying the main reason is because houses are warmer?

Technology is also to blame. People live a more comfortable lifestyle. Hardship is defined differently now.

Femme_Fatale

I agree with the portion sizes theory. I was in America 20 years ago and was shocked at the portion sizes, the all-you-can-eat restaurants (not that I didn't enjoy it :pac:), the amount of junkfood places, the ice-cream/milk-shake parlours... and it's that way here now.

syklops wrote: »

I was recently living next to a college, and I found it a bit of an eye opener.

When I was young, it was common for someone you knew to go off to college and come back having put on a bit of weight having discovered pints, pizzas, and being too hungover to go training on a Sunday which they would normally do.

The eye opener for me was the number of freshers who were arriving with obvious weight problems. Im not talking about girls who were a bit curvy, but girls with big arms as a result.

I thought living next to a college would be great. All these young girls around. I gotta say, there weren't very many Irish girls I admired. As the OP said, it wasn't one or two either. Its not like an 80s cartoon where there was the one fat kid, it wasn't even 50/50, it was the majority. Its quite worrying really.

Lol, just say it was girls not being hot that bothered you, rather than young people in general being obese :pac:

syklops wrote: »

Nowadays, as well as less running around, kids have access to way more sugary foods then we did. Its the norm to get dairylea or a mars mini in your lunch box where as we never did. Schools and homes are well insulated and aren't as cold and many kids get driven to school in nice warm cars. Even the cars were cold when I was growing up.

I went to primary school betwen 1983 and 1991 - always had a Penguin bar and packet of crisps with my lunch. Sandwiches made with white bread, processed "meat" (like pork, onion and tomato), processed cheese. Frozen foods for dinner were big in the '80s. People were less nutritionally aware - it was not all "wholesome food". Bars of chocolate were cheaper too - it was 30p for a Dairymilk. Now it's at least a euro.

Yet I was a skinny mini; most kids were.

Portion sizes were much smaller though, there was far less junkfood choice. Buying bags and bags of junkfood to demolish by yourself was just not done, nor was ordering colossal pizzas. And going to McDonalds was a very occasional treat. Going to restaurants and getting take-aways were luxuries, not a fairly mundane treat, as they are now.
I disagree that no kids go out and play much today - they do... but they did moreso back in the day.

Magenta

Both of my parents are overweight and if I was as ill-informed as them I would be too.

I was raised on chicken and chips. There was always a larder full of junk in the house and still is. My little brother was never made to eat fruit or veg and only started himself at 16 because he had dry skin everywhere and chunks of it on his scalp (no joke). Only because I was so active, I would have been a fat child.

As soon as I got my first office job, I piled the weight on. I have lost it now and have a BMI of 21 but my mother gives me ****e every time she sees me about how "you're far too thin, have a few chips". If I was at home and asked her if she had any chicken or fish, it would be prepackaged, fried in batter rubbish.

I eat meat and salad for lunch and dinner every day.
Breakfast is eggs, an apple, and porridge.
I have 1 bar of chocolate every day as a treat.

I was diagnosed with having too much of a certain mineral a few weeks ago and my mother's advice was "you don't eat, you need more chips". Apparently I "need some chips to dilute the mineral in the rest if your food".
Yet it's not her fault she's overweight, because her sisters all are too. Of course they all eat ****e too but that has nothing to do with it seemingly!

syklops

FemmFatale wrote:

Lol, just say it was girls not being hot that bothered you, rather than young people in general being obese

There were plenty of hot young things around. Just very few of them were Irish.

the groutch

doesnt help with supermarkets' marketing.
the amount of overprocessed s**** being marketed as "back to school offers" and "great for lunchboxes", etc. is extremely worrying.

Muahahaha

Doom wrote: »

A lot of talk about this been a huge problem right now, at first I just thought maybe a few odd kids, but lately I've noticed a lot of kids who are huge, boys with moobs and nearly beer guts, the girls are the worst with moobs on the back of their shoulders, big legs and arms.
I really feel sorry for them, wait until they hit their late 30s, when most people put on a few pounds....
Seriously where are the social services, these kids hardly make their own dinners etc, so it must be the lazy parents feeding them crap food!
Schools need to get involved too, stop them leaving school grounds at lunchtime to chomp supermacs/ breakfast rolls everyday.
Seriously people take notice, the fat kids are nearly more in number than healthy kids....

Couldn't agree more with this.

I was talking to a mate who is a stock broker recently about the same topic and he reckoned now is a good time to buy shares in companies that supply medicines for diabetes because as he said- look around you, there is an absolute epidemic on the way.

Heat_Wave

I thought with all these "transformations" popping up everywhere that fitness was becoming really popular, no?

Perhaps I'm only thinking that because I'm in the gym majority of the time surrounded by other health conscious people? Who knows! I thought Ireland's current teenage generation were becoming slimmer though because they're all obsessed with image from the likes of Towie and Geordie Shore?

da6xsi

Bad diet is to blame and a childs diet is monitored and thought by parents.

I think while processed food is a problem its sugar that has kids obese in this country

A childs GDA of sugar is about 80g

Two classes/cans of coke a day and their at their gda for sugar you then need to add in 3 meals along with snacks/junk food and a 10 year old child could have 3 to 4 times their gda for sugar going through their body which is nowhere near capable of processing that much sugar.

When we eat a lot of sugar, most of the fructose gets metabolized by the liver. There it gets turned into fat, which is then secreted into the blood.

I guarantee any parent who reads this and struggles with an overweight child if you were to cut sugar out of the childs diet keep it to the required levels and get your child involved in a sport/activity you would notice the differance within weeks.

Dark Phoenix

bad diet, no portion control and no exercise.

Its not just kids though I work with people who are almost ten years younger than me and are obese as they just have no idea about diet at all. One will have a can of coke and pastries for breakfast, will have a takeaway at lunch and another after woirk. I have never ever seen her eat a portion of fruit or veg its awful as they honestly have no notion what they are eating or why its a problem.

I think fitness has started to be more popular but unless people combine it with a good diet it wont fix the problem. I know someone going to the gym several times a week and wondering why its not working and yet they are eating all around themselves!

Parents have got to teach portions and healthy eating.I feel for them though as with so many companies and add branding sugar and fat laced treats as 'healthy' it must be hard to work out what really is. If you knew no better and some parents don't the likes of sugary cereal bars and processed kids lunch packs are seen as 'healthy' as thats how they are sold. Its educatiuon for parents and kids needed.

i agree america is scary i was there earlier this year and could barely finish any of the portions I got -couldnt believe the size of some of the plates of food.

siochain

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You don't see kids out playing on the street all that often in the same way as when I was a kid anyway.

Also, it's help a lot of people if they used smaller plates.

All summer the kids around here are playing ball, kick the can, on their bikes. Most of the kids in the estate play 2 or 3 sports.


I'm involved in both my local rugby and GAA clubs and the numbers of kids playing sports at underage levels is greater than ever before.


Problem is nutrition and in particular the availability of cheap foods made from wheat and corn.

Alf Veedersane

siochain wrote: »

All summer the kids around here are playing ball, kick the can, on their bikes. Most of the kids in the estate play 2 or 3 sports.


I'm involved in both my local rugby and GAA clubs and the numbers of kids playing sports at underage levels is greater than ever before.


Problem is nutrition and in particular the availability of cheap foods made from wheat and corn.

Fair enough. I just don't see it round our way.

It's white bread anyway. I thought that was agreed.