Pedestrian difficulties in Meath towns

Colm R

As a relatively new arrival to Meath, and regular visitor to towns like Ashbourne, Navan and Kells, I'm struck by how much these towns in particular are not really that friendly to pedestrians.

Locals might disagree and they know their towns better so I'm just seeing what people think.

I'll start with Navan - Trimgate street in particular is not that difficult because traffic is so slow on it, that its not intimidating for pedestrians. However, considering the M3 is there now, and the already existing older bypass, I cannot see why Trimgate street is needed for any car journeys through the town. There are a lot of shops in the area, but the footpaths are quite narrow. Is there any reason why this street from the junction at the Loft restaurant down to the Market Square and also down Kennedy road as far as the Shopping Center could be closed to traffic except deliveries?


Ashbourne: The old main street (as opposed to the new street) is crying out for wider footpaths, or in some cases, footpaths where there are none. Its a grand wide street, and I think the footpaths are very narrow in places. I don't think the street should or could be closed to traffic but too much of its width is given to road space. Even if they organized it better, they would get more parking spaces in.
There are a few wheelchair users in the town, and any time I've seen them, its clear that navigating the street is very difficult, espeicially around the traffic lights in front of Supervalu/Dunnes.

Kells - very difficult to figure out what to do here - the old N3 through the town is still needed as a through route, but I'm sure they could widen the footpaths, and narrow the space for cars, since the M3 has opened, traffic is not near as bad.

Any thoughts?

The Maverick

The footpaths on the main street in Ashbourne are very poor quality all right. There are plans in place to upgrade the whole street though. From what I remember it was meant to start this summer but no sign of any work so far.

bladespin

Never understood why there were calls for Trimgate st. in Navan to be pedestrianised, it's an arterial route for traffic to the main commercial centre, not a commercial centre itself, years ago it was the main shopping area but that has all been driven to Kennedy Road and the shopping centre.

Colm R

bladespin wrote: »

Never understood why there were calls for Trimgate st. in Navan to be pedestrianised, it's an arterial route for traffic to the main commercial centre, not a commercial centre itself, years ago it was the main shopping area but that has all been driven to Kennedy Road and the shopping centre.

You make it sound like Kennedy Road and Trimgate Street are miles apart. The shopping center area, Kennedy Road, and Trimgate street could really compliment each other and increase the attractiveness of Navan as a place to shop as opposed to the oppressive Blanchardstown or Dublin City Center.

To walk from the Loft restaurant to say the far opposite corner of the shopping center would not take more than 10 minutes -

As things currently stand, you cannot simply close Trimgate street, as it is the best option right now, in particular for traffic coming from Trim. However, there are options there, so it should be easy enough to reroute traffic around the town - how exactly - I don't know.

munchkin_utd

Colm R wrote: »

<snip>
Kells - very difficult to figure out what to do here - the old N3 through the town is still needed as a through route, but I'm sure they could widen the footpaths, and narrow the space for cars, since the M3 has opened, traffic is not near as bad.

Any thoughts?

there was plans to reconfigure Kells footpaths etc now that its no longer a through road but never heard on what the progress of it was recently.

Colm R

munchkin_utd wrote: »

there was plans to reconfigure Kells footpaths etc now that its no longer a through road but never heard on what the progress of it was recently.

The area in front of the church and the hotel was done, and its nice (although with the amount of bollards, its as if Kells is preparing for an invasion)

bladespin

Colm R wrote: »

To walk from the Loft restaurant to say the far opposite corner of the shopping center would not take more than 10 minutes -

I could do it in a lot less, cut through the lane beside Dunnes?

Didn't mean to make it sound far away but it is the main feeder to Kennedy road. Closing the road to traffic would be a disaster for the rest of the town, just look how it jams up on the likes of St. Patrick's day when it's closed, that's a day of very little traffic, I dread what would happen on a normal day, lets face it traffic control in the town is a disaster at the best of times, whoever controls it should be fired.

TBH Navan will never be able to compete with the likes of Blanch, lack of choice for one and getting fleeced by greedy car-park charges is another reason.

Colm R

bladespin wrote: »

I could do it in a lot less, cut through the lane beside Dunnes?

Didn't mean to make it sound far away but it is the main feeder to Kennedy road. Closing the road to traffic would be a disaster for the rest of the town, just look how it jams up on the likes of St. Patrick's day when it's closed, that's a day of very little traffic, I dread what would happen on a normal day, lets face it traffic control in the town is a disaster at the best of times, whoever controls it should be fired.

TBH Navan will never be able to compete with the likes of Blanch, lack of choice for one and getting fleeced by greedy car-park charges is another reason.

Agreed, it is a feeder route for Kennedy road and for traffic in general from Trim going towards Slane now, and simply closing the street and not reconfiguring other streets will not work.

But in a few weeks time, its going to be a lot easier for people from Meath to access Blanchardstown shopping center, so as the main shopping town in the county, in a depressed market, Navan needs to up its game.

So whilst Trimgate is an important street for traffic now, Navan does have other options and other streets and roads, which could be better utilised to make the town work better. Not least, it has an old bypass which is no longer used by long distance traffic. I'm not an engineer and I would imagine some serious amount of traffic monitoring would have to happen.

As for the cost of parking, Navan is shooting itself in the foot there. The easiest thing to do is free parking on Saturdays, and retailers could validate tickets during the week, hence preventing the Dublin Commuters parking up.

And finally - the car park in front of Dunnes - who the hell designed that?

bladespin

They really should look at moving the shopping area to one of the retail parks, I'd suggest the one at Mullaghboy, whoever's in charge has absolutely no idea considering the objection to the new cinema there, fantastic opportunity to steal a move but missed completely IMO.

PaddyCar

Moving the shopping centre out of the town! Would that not just finish off all the smaller local retailers in the town?

Access

Bladespin is spot on...

Navan is shooting itself in the foot with parking charges. It's simple economics... reduce the price of parking... you get more people shopping in the town. even the multi story should be free for the first hour at least.

Traffic wardens like wasps... spending half the time chatting to locals and almost walking around in twos.

The biggest missed opportunity has been the new cinema... I travel to Ashbourne or blanch to the cinema all the time I go now. I refuse to step into the kip that is navan cinema... it's beyond it's sell by date now... do it up or close it down.

Also agree about the car park outside dunnes... all that area should be a small park with a fountain or two with an outdoor market area. no parking whatsoever.

Jesus, I sound like I'm knocking my own local town here... but it depresses me when I drive through a nice town like trim and I think to myself navan town could be so much better.

lycan238

As a frequent visitor to navan and sometimes to kells I find the issues discussed here are indeed a problem. The carpark in navan opposite the shopping centre is €1.40 an hour max 3hrs. In all fairness 3hrs is a long time however if you like a good long browse in say Penny's Dunnes etc. then 3hrs goes by quickly. Parking at times in said car park can be difficult to come by especially on sundays when parking is free.

Regarding kells and crossing over on the old N3 road. I used to get off the bus at the headford walk up that side of the street until across from PaddyPower where they put lights in. Cross over there walk up that side until you get onto road across from supervalu and cross over there (not sure if pedestrian crossing exists there off top of my head) and then cross over old N3 again at side of supervalu and finally over the side road at the crossing to get to Kells Peoples Resource Centre where I helped out for a few months at a local youth club. A long way round for what should be a short walk.

Jonnykitedude

bladespin wrote: »

They really should look at moving the shopping area to one of the retail parks, I'd suggest the one at Mullaghboy, whoever's in charge has absolutely no idea considering the objection to the new cinema there, fantastic opportunity to steal a move but missed completely IMO.

That's a ridiculous thing to say! Without the shopping centre the down would die...plain and simple!
It might be a pain to gain access by car but not by foot, without the shopping centre situated in the town you would end up with a few pubs, take aways and if your lucky a bank!

bladespin

PaddyCar wrote: »

Moving the shopping centre out of the town! Would that not just finish off all the smaller local retailers in the town?

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

That's a ridiculous thing to say! Without the shopping centre the down would die...plain and simple!
It might be a pain to gain access by car but not by foot, without the shopping centre situated in the town you would end up with a few pubs, take aways and if your lucky a bank!

I live in Navan, always have done but I never ever shop there for that very reason. I'll go to Drogheda or Ashbourne to avoid the hassle, if I want to go to a shopping centre I'll go to Blanch where there's some sort of structure to the place and plenty of FREE carparking, but if I just want to go to a supermarket (for example) then I'll go somewhere I can do that without getting caught up in the mill - everyone I know says the same, trying to tie shoppers up in a scrum is completely counter productive when there are many easier options.

The smaller shops around the square and on Trimgate St. would fare a lot better without the 'centre'.

Jonnykitedude

So you'll pay for fuel to get to Blanch along with toll (if taken) rather than paying €1 for parking.....yeah that makes sense!

The only reason I go to the town is for Tescos which is situated in the shopping centre, if Tescos where to leave that's the end of the shopping centre which would cause a chain reaction of other stores leaving due to decreased footfall.
Its common sense that if the shopping centre was to be situated outside the town the remanding shops would soon shut down.

bladespin

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

So you'll pay for fuel to get to Blanch along with toll (if taken) rather than paying €1 for parking.....yeah that makes sense!

The only reason I go to the town is for Tescos which is situated in the shopping centre, if Tescos where to leave that's the end of the shopping centre which would cause a chain reaction of other stores leaving due to decreased footfall.
Its common sense that if the shopping centre was to be situated outside the town the remanding shops would soon shut down.

Not a bit of it, working in Dublin I use less fuel getting to Ashbourne than I would going to the town centre - makes perfect sense thanks.

I'd gladly pay the extra to avoid the headache of Navan town on a Friday or Saturday anyway.

It's funny how the big shops moving out of town centres haven't shut the shops in the likes of Drogheda, Maynooth etc, etc.

Jonnykitedude

Drogheda and navan are completely different towns! Plus the major shopping centres are based IN THE TOWN, clougherboy industrial estate is hardly in the town......unless navan has increased in size over night!

Your last post doesn't make sense. You live in navan? You work in Dublin? You get your shopping on the way home via Ashbourne?? Am I right?

bladespin

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Drogheda and navan are completely different towns! Plus the major shopping centres are based IN THE TOWN, clougherboy industrial estate is hardly in the town......unless navan has increased in size over night!

Yes, obviously they're different towns but good examples of how towns evolve when shopping centres and supermarkets are located outside the town rather than in it's center.
My point is that the shopping centre in Navan strangles the town, most only do their shopping there and don't venture beyond it, Trimgate st. doesn't benefit from it.

These other towns are only examples of how easy it could/should be.

I referred to the cinema planned for the Athboy road retail park which is certainly part of Navan, the town boundaries go well beyond that lol, I'm not talking about the Mullaghboy Industrial estate (though this is also part of the town).

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Your last post doesn't make sense. You live in navan? You work in Dublin? You get your shopping on the way home via Ashbourne?? Am I right?

Yes, you're right; I live in Navan, work in Dublin and sometimes get my shopping on my way home in Ashbourne, like many others I make a 'senseless' trip to work every day lol, I really don't understand how that doesn't make sense.

washiskin

bladespin wrote: »

It's funny how the big shops moving out of town centres haven't shut the shops in the likes of Drogheda, Maynooth etc, etc.

Have you been across the length of West St. in Drogheda lately? It's decimated - Narrow West St has 2 or 3 shops that are trading the rest are empty. The busiest part of that street is from the Post Office on and even at that there's about 6 or 8 units empty. Even in the 80s it was never that bad.....

Jonnykitedude

There different as population and size of town so you can't compare them.

Eh you suggested mullghboy, jesus I live 6k from navan and its still called navan townland.

You post didn't make sense becasue the way you typed it so stop jumping to conclusions.

So you pass Ashbourne everyday and get your shopping there, you initially said you drove to Ashbourne to get your shopping. Passing and driving to that location are completely different things which makes your argument dead in the water!

I'd hate to see you as a town planner!

bladespin

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

There different as population and size of town so you can't compare them.

Eh you suggested mullghboy, jesus I live 6k from navan and its still called navan townland.

I haven't compared those towns to anything, I only gave a couple of examples of how moving shopping areas can actually help main street trading in towns, they're very different yet both have shown marked improvements in high street trading.

I worked in Mullaghboy for three years and had no problem walking or cycling there from Clonmagadden, the whole idea is about moving shopping centres to areas on the outskirts of towns.

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

You post didn't make sense becasue the way you typed it so stop jumping to conclusions.

So you pass Ashbourne everyday and get your shopping there, you initially said you drove to Ashbourne to get your shopping. Passing and driving to that location are completely different things which makes your argument dead in the water!

I'd hate to see you as a town planner!

I have no desire to be a town planner, thanks, though I have a four year old who could do a better job.

I typed it as it is, working in Dublin it makes sense for me to go to Ashbourne (or Blanch) than wasting time and energy in Navan, what conclusions are you accusing me of jumping to???

I still don't see what doesn't make sense, I don't pass Ashbourne everyday but it suits me for my shopping needs, I merely stated that I prefer shopping there or in Drogheda to shopping in Navan, thanks.

I'd still rather spend the extra to drive to Ashbourne/Drogheda (as I did today) for my shopping than go to Navan town for it.

BTW this thread's about pedestrianization of Trimgate St. not my commute :rolleyes:

Also, when the shopping centre was first built it was on what would have been considered the outskirts of the town, poor planning has resulted in it becoming more and more locked in to the town, to the point where it has become a problem for the rest of the town, this was before the relief road was built so that bad planning has been going on a while

dgt

bladespin please tell us more about your commute :pac:

As for pedestrianising Trimgate, not a hope. Not big enough for that I thinks. Remember when it was a 2 way road with no footpaths? Because I certainly don't

Ever see the traffic heading towards Mercy just before 9am on a normal weekday? It's often right up to the junction on the Dublin road with a queue waiting to turn right... With pedestrianised streets it would be complete chaos with a car park rather than traffic!!!

bladespin

dgt wrote: »

bladespin please tell us more about your commute :pac:

:P it's boring, wish the council etc would spend more time promoting jobs in town so I didn't have to do it.

dgt wrote: »

As for pedestrianising Trimgate, not a hope. Not big enough for that I thinks. Remember when it was a 2 way road with no footpaths? Because I certainly don't

Ever see the traffic heading towards Mercy just before 9am on a normal weekday? It's often right up to the junction on the Dublin road with a queue waiting to turn right... With pedestrianised streets it would be complete chaos with a car park rather than traffic!!!

My original point, they can't, they'd kill the town altogether and the fabulous shopping centre which I never suggested should close??? Just that more should be done for the new retail parks, still struggle with the cinema decision.

PauloMN

Access wrote: »

Bladespin is spot on...

Navan is shooting itself in the foot with parking charges. It's simple economics... reduce the price of parking... you get more people shopping in the town. even the multi story should be free for the first hour at least.

Traffic wardens like wasps... spending half the time chatting to locals and almost walking around in twos.

The biggest missed opportunity has been the new cinema... I travel to Ashbourne or blanch to the cinema all the time I go now. I refuse to step into the kip that is navan cinema... it's beyond it's sell by date now... do it up or close it down.

Also agree about the car park outside dunnes... all that area should be a small park with a fountain or two with an outdoor market area. no parking whatsoever.

Jesus, I sound like I'm knocking my own local town here... but it depresses me when I drive through a nice town like trim and I think to myself navan town could be so much better.

+1 to all that.

Navan town centre should be somewhere I visit for shopping since I moved to Trim, but I rarely do. Been to Homebase/Halfords etc. quite a bit, but only in the shopping centre and cinema maybe three times in four years. Also won't go to that ****hole cinema anymore.

Totally agree about the parking in front of Dunnes, make it a small park/feature of some sort.

The cinema and shopping centre are woeful tbh. How long are they there? They look like something out of the '80s - nothing appealing about them whatsoever, and then you have to pay in a dirty, cramped car park to use those "facilities"? No thanks.

Anyone who passes Blanch or LV on the way home from work, or anyone who is in those areas regularly is not going to spend money parking in Navan to shop in that shopping centre.

dgt

PauloMN wrote: »

+1 to all that.

Navan town centre should be somewhere I visit for shopping since I moved to Trim, but I rarely do. Been to Homebase/Halfords etc. quite a bit, but only in the shopping centre and cinema maybe three times in four years. Also won't go to that ****hole cinema anymore.

Totally agree about the parking in front of Dunnes, make it a small park/feature of some sort.

The cinema and shopping centre are woeful tbh. How long are they there? They look like something out of the '80s - nothing appealing about them whatsoever, and then you have to pay in a dirty, cramped car park to use those "facilities"? No thanks.

Anyone who passes Blanch or LV on the way home from work, or anyone who is in those areas regularly is not going to spend money parking in Navan to shop in that shopping centre.

Diamond cinema has been there since 1998 iirc and hasn't been updated since (open to corrections but I can't remember it being revamped), shopping centre since 1981 and since then they just built more and more onto it. You can tell by the brown/terracotta tiles how old each extension is moving onto the white ones towards boots and heatons :pac:

The plaza is a disaster on weekends, a free for all with people parking almost anywhere. All that space at the front wasted for what?!!!

Personally methinks due to the design of the buildings in the town itself there's very little that can be done to help traffic....

PauloMN

dgt wrote: »

Diamond cinema has been there since 1998 iirc and hasn't been updated since (open to corrections but I can't remember it being revamped), shopping centre since 1981 and since then they just built more and more onto it. You can tell by the brown/terracotta tiles how old each extension is moving onto the white ones towards boots and heatons :pac:

The plaza is a disaster on weekends, a free for all with people parking almost anywhere. All that space at the front wasted for what?!!!

Personally methinks due to the design of the buildings in the town itself there's very little that can be done to help traffic....

Yes the Heatons end is definitely better kept (or newer). The older part is in dire need of upgrading.

Navan should be the shopping spot for all of Meath really, but it's failing miserably.

As regards pedestrians, could some of the shopping streets not be pedestrianised at weekends and after 7pm at least? Would make it a lot more appealing.

NufcNavan

PauloMN wrote: »

Yes the Heatons end is definitely better kept (or newer). The older part is in dire need of upgrading.

Navan should be the shopping spot for all of Meath really, but it's failing miserably.

As regards pedestrians, could some of the shopping streets not be pedestrianised at weekends and after 7pm at least? Would make it a lot more appealing.

Who the hell is walking around Navan after 7 on weekdays.

Access

I think trimgate street would look lovely if there was no parking on either side of it for the whole length of it and if they widened the footpaths on each side with just enough width in the middle for traffic to flow through... separating path from road with nice planters with flowers and small trees in them on each side.

Just my two cents.

PauloMN

NufcNavan wrote: »

Who the hell is walking around Navan after 7 on weekdays.

Well, that's the point.

Anyway the weekend would see most gain from pedestrianisation, but no harm having the same system in place after rush hour during the week also.

NufcNavan

Access wrote: »

I think trimgate street would look lovely if there was no parking on either side of it for the whole length of it and if they widened the footpaths on each side with just enough width in the middle for traffic to flow through... separating path from road with nice planters with flowers and small trees in them on each side.

Just my two cents.

Trees would be a hazard to cars. Would make it very hard to spot pedestrians crossing the road.

PauloMN wrote: »

Well, that's the point.

Anyway the weekend would see most gain from pedestrianisation, but no harm having the same system in place after rush hour during the week also.

Well then footpaths should suffice if there's very little pedestrians around in the evening.

PauloMN

NufcNavan wrote: »

Trees would be a hazard to cars. Would make it very hard to spot pedestrians crossing the road.


Well then footpaths should suffice if there's very little pedestrians around in the evening.

Did you ever hear the expression "speculate to accumulate"?

No, I guess not. :pac:

washiskin

I was talking to a trader who has a business on Watergate St and he said the works carried out a while ago has had a huge impact on footfall. 12 parking spaces were taken out and people just won't walk around from the Abbey Rd car park. How many times have you seen people parking on or around the Market Sq pedestrian crossing to run to the bank or into a shop? Taking parking away from Trimgate St would finish it off altogether.