Buying a gaming Laptop

solidMGSsnake

Hi some of you guys might know me for the incredibly long thread I made last month about a €1200 Gaming Rig, you can see it here if you're interested: Link
Well now that it is done with and I'm happy with my new gaming PC. The only thing is I'm starting college now and my course is Game Development so I need a somewhat powerful laptop that I can carry around with me. I'm not interested in buying online or building it myself, I just went through all that. I just want to buy a nice laptop in PC World.

TL;DR I need a powerful enough gaming laptop for college and I want to buy it locally from PC World.

My budget is around €600 or less. I went to PC World today and I was shown two laptops that the guy said met what I was asking for.

The first one was a White HP laptop, it didn't have a proper name so it was hard to find online but I THINK this was it but in black: Link Here are the specs that were in the store anyway: AMD A10-4600M quad core, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, HD 7660G Radeon Graphics, Win 8, 5.5H Battery, HD Web Cam, 2x USB 3 and 1x USB 2.

The second was a Asus and I didn't have time to take down the specs, all I remember was it had a i3 Intel CPU, 6GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 3.5H battery and a 2GB Graphics Card. I'm almost certain this was it but it was much cheaper in the store and I'm fairly sure it only had a 500GB HDD, not a 750GB but I could be wrong: Link

I'm not very familiar with AMD terminology but the guy told me that as a whole the HP laptop was more powerful as it had more memory and a better processor but that the Asus would serve me better as the graphics card is better.

But I'm a bit worried about it, as I think the i3, 3.5H battery and only 6GB of RAM will hold my graphics back anyhow. Am I wrong? Which PC do you guys think is better suited for me? I know that neither laptop are incredibly powerful but I already have a high end desktop I built, I only need a portable PC for college.

Basically what it comes down to is better CPU and RAM vs Better Graphics Card. It doesn't matter much but I prefer the look of the HP laptop but performance is obviously more important than that.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Torqay

750 is way too much for that AMD A-10. The ASUS you have linked is an old model, 2nd gen Core i3, integrated graphics. You mentioned a 2 GB graphics card, VRAM is secondary, more important is the graphics chip. no matter how much memory you throw at a, say, GT 620M, it's still cr@p.

solidMGSsnake

Torqay wrote: »

750 is way too much for that AMD A-10. The ASUS you have linked is an old model, 2nd gen Core i3, integrated graphics. You mentioned a 2 GB graphics card, VRAM is secondary, more important is the graphics chip. no matter how much memory you throw at a, say, GT 620M, it's still cr@p.

Wow that was fast O_o

Like I said, these are only what think was them, obviously I was wrong, if that was the case then just pay attention to the specs I gave. The Asus definately had a 2GB dedicated Graphics Card and both laptops were in the mid €500 range. The prices on the website are wrong.

Torqay

If you'll get a AMD A-10 for 500-550, that'd be reasonable.

solidMGSsnake

So you're saying to go with the HP? Please if you can elaborate, I know the AMD processor is better but my question is which will be more helpful for me? The better graphics card or the better processor?

Lu Tze

What are you realistically going to be using it for? Documents, Notes, accessing internet and resources over the internet more than likely.

If i were you i would forget about the graphics card and get something as small and portable as possible with a good battery life.

You will know all about it lugging these yokes around all day. You have your pc at home for any heavy lifting (course projects, graphics tools etc)

Torqay

To give you an idea about the performance of the AMD A-10, its CPUMark score (3347) is comparable to that of an Intel Core i3 3120M (3300). The on-chip HD 7660G GPU is comparable to Nvidia's GT 630M.

To be honest, those specs are not really gaming material, "multimedia laptop" would be a more accurate assessment.

solidMGSsnake

Well you see I'm going to college away from home and I don't want to bring my desktop with me in case it gets damaged or stolen, so I'll only have access to it during the weekends, hence the laptop. I might decide to bring the desktop down eventually once I assess the area and make sure I can trust my roommate but not straight away.

I felt both laptops and neither felt too heavy, back in school I had to lug around this awful wide Dell "notebook" (it was the size of a dinner tray and as heavy as a PS3) so I'm sure I won't have trouble with either laptop.

I will need the laptop for basic things like Word and Powerpoint as well as programming, 3D rendering and maybe running a game I'm working on but nothing too high-end. I'll also be using it for entertainment like running games on Steam and streaming movies and such.

To be fair I'm not paying for this, my parents are so it's not like I'm saving money anyway, an extra €100 isn't going to kill them and I'm also putting €100 towards it, so I might as well get a slightly more powerful laptop than standard.

So with that in mind which do you guys think I will benefit more from, not value wise but performance wise. Will I get more use out of a better processor or a better graphics card?

Torqay wrote: »

To give you an idea about the performance of the AMD A-10, its CPUMark score (3347) is comparable to that of an Intel Core i3 3120M (3300). The on-chip HD 7660G GPU is comparable to Nvidia's GT 630M.

To be honest, those specs are not really gaming material, "multimedia laptop" would be a more accurate assessment.

Well to my knowledge the AMD is a quad core while the i3 is a duel core, so surely that makes a big difference. On-chip? You mean it is a GPU integrated into the Motherboard?! The guy told me it was a dedicated graphics card just it was only 5612 or whatever.

BobCobb

Go online and get both!

http://www.amazon.de/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Notebook-NVIDIA-64-bit/dp/B00B7BZAGU/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1377463900&sr=1-3

solidMGSsnake

No I'm buying it locally, I'm starting college next week so I don't have time to wait 2-4 weeks for one. Also be careful about that, if you read the fine print you will see the keyboard is QWERTZ. But it really does show that everything on the internet is cheaper doesn't it? I don't need a super powerful laptop, I already built my PC and I'm happy with it. I just want to buy a nice laptop for college that can do what I said above.

Guys I appreciate the help and I'm sure there are better laptops for the money out there but please just answer the question, out of the 2 laptops, which would be better suited to what I'm asking for? Better processor vs Better Graphics Card?

Also I hate saying this but if you don't mind can you guys answer ASAP as I'm planning on buying it tomorrow, thanks.

Torqay

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

No I'm buying it locally, I'm starting college next week so I don't have time to wait 2-4 weeks for one.

Well, you should have thought of that a bit earlier. Online you'll get a Core i7 laptop for 600 yoyos that should last you through your college years if you treat it with care. Now you'll end up with some Core i3 or i5 which, by design, will run out of steam in 2 years or so (hardware requirements progress rather fast, you know).

With a budget of €600 you can forget about a gaming laptop. A GT 630M is not that much of an improvement over the integrated Intel HD 4000. Buy some Core I5 in a shop and you may have some money left for extra memory and maybe a solid state drive (highly recommended), just forget about "dedicated graphics", it's just not worth it in this market segment.

Torqay

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Well to my knowledge the AMD is a quad core while the i3 is a duel core, so surely that makes a big difference.

Well, apparently, it doesn't make much of a difference... there was a time when the chip manufacturers tried to beat each other over the clock frequency, today it's the number of processor cores. Then and now they pull all sorts of marketing stunts. AMD's Trinity chips include only two modules with four integer-cores and two floating-point cores total. As a result, the CPU is not a true quad-core processor. Intel's Core i3 dual-core processor with two virtual cores performs just as well.

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

On-chip? You mean it is a GPU integrated into the Motherboard?!

No, I mean, the GPU is integrated into the processor. The AMD A-10 has a Radeon HD 7660G integrated, AMD calls them APU (accelerated processing unit) rather than CPU. Just as Intel's mobile Ivy Bridge Core processors have the Intel HD4000 integrated in the chip, not the motherbaord. Both are "integrated graphics".

solidMGSsnake

So you're saying it doesn't matter which laptop I get? I can't choose can you please just make a decision for me with reasoning behind it please xD
That was the whole point of this thread. I think the HP looks nicer but I think the Asus is probably better.

So again here's the specs:

HP - AMD A10-4600M quad core, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, HD 7660G Radeon Graphics, Win 8, 5.5H Battery, VGA, HDMI, HD Web Cam, 2x USB 3 and 1x USB 2.

Asus - i3 Intel CPU, 6GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Win 8, 3.5H Battery and a 2GB Graphics Card. (from memory, may be different)
The Asus probably had a webcam and HDMI, VGA and USB 3 as well.

beno619

Since you don't really care about the specs, just go with the one with the best build quality and the least awful screen.
Does battery like concern you ?

Torqay

We still don't know which graphics card it is in that ASUS laptop. Unless it's a GT 640M or better, the HP is the better choice.

But as I said, a dedicated graphics card is a waste of money in this price range. Say you want to play someting as demanding as BF3, you can play it on low detail settings with Intel HD 4000 just as well. Budget GPUs like the GT 630M can't do much better (for medium detail settings you'd need a GT 640M). Look around if you find a Core i5 laptop for this price. And for the real fun you already have your gaming rig anyway.

solidMGSsnake

Well you know it is 2GB anyway so won't that make a difference? I'll probably be leaving soon so try answer quickly, would I be able to ask the guy if it is on par with a GT 640M or would he have no idea off the top of his head?

solidMGSsnake

beno619 wrote: »

Since you don't really care about the specs, just go with the one with the best build quality and the least awful screen.
Does battery like concern you ?

What do you mean? of course I care about the specs, that's why I made this thread. I'm not going to buy one over the other just because it looks cooler.

Torqay

Even the crappiest Nvidia GT 610M is advertised with 2 GB these days. That doesn't make it any better, it's still good for nothing.

Some Passmark scores for you:





As you can see, a GT 610M is a waste of money, no match for the on-chip HD 4000. Unless you get a GT 640M or better, it's not really worth investing in a dedicated GPU.

solidMGSsnake

The Asus machine is only marginally more expensive then the HP, although I'm not a big fan on how it looks. Like I said money isn't the issue here. So just before I go, are you telling me if it has GT 640M I should get it because it is the better laptop and if it doesn't than get the HP because it is the better laptop? Even if it doesn't have a GT 640M but it is still slightly superior to the HP (besides value) then tell me ok? I'm looking for the better laptop out of those two, regardless of price or value.

OhHiMark

What about a GT540M? Mine has that and it definitely gets the job done.

beno619

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

What do you mean? of course I care about the specs, that's why I made this thread. I'm not going to buy one over the other just because it looks cooler.

Well in that case the GPU's on these machines are awful if you wanna play anything on at least medium settings at 720p.

Im not sure why you are hung up on PC World but you can this from Amazon which is up to a lot more for €600.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B2HVYT6/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=computers

Benchmarks for the GT 635

solidMGSsnake

No I'm buying it locally, that laptop is in pounds, do you know how much that will come to? I'm getting it in PC World because it also comes with a bundle for an extra €120, I get a bag, mouse, HDMI cable, Microsoft Office Pack, Xbox Live Gold and Anti-virus. Please stop showing me other laptops, I know you're only trying to help, but I just want one of these laptops ok? So please just focus on the question

Torqay

OhHiMark wrote: »

What about a GT540M? Mine has that and it definitely gets the job done.

It's an old model, comparable to the current GT 620M. I don't know which job you're talking about but when it comes to the ever so popular reference Battlefield 3, then low settings is all you get. Just like a GT 630M, or Intel HD 4000 for that matter. If you want anything better than that, you're looking for a GT 640M (Kepler) or higher.

Entry level GPUs are nothing but a marketing spin really, Intel's on-chip graphics have come a long way.

OhHiMark

Torqay wrote: »

It's an old model, comparable to the current GT 620M. I don't know which job you're talking about but when it comes to the ever so popular reference Battlefield 3, then low settings is all you get. Just like a GT 630M, or Intel HD 4000 for that matter. If you want anything better than that, you're looking for a GT 640M (Kepler) or higher.

Entry level GPUs are nothing but a marketing spin really, Intel's on-chip graphics have come a long way.

I can play Crysis 2 on high settings with it.

solidMGSsnake

Guys please just one final time, I'm literally leaving in 5 minutes, which laptop will I get?

beno619

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Guys please just one final time, I'm literally leaving in 5 minutes, which laptop will I get?

The HP laptop would be better for gaming.

Torqay

OhHiMark wrote: »

I can play Crysis 2 on high settings with it.

But you're not getting nowhere near 30 FPS which is considered to be acceptable.

GarIT

Neither laptop is good enough for what you want to do. Neither will be able to do 3D rendering or gaming, you need to add a minimum of 200-300 to your budget just for the bare minimum if you want to buy in Ireland.

Torqay

beno619 wrote: »

The HP laptop would be better for gaming.

How did you establish that without knowing the GPU model in the ASUS?

Torqay

GarIT wrote: »

Neither laptop is good enough for what you want to do. Neither will be able to do 3D rendering or gaming, you need to add a minimum of 200-300 to your budget just for the bare minimum if you want to buy in Ireland.

That's what I keep saying... OP already has a gaming rig. He should focus on CPU performance and get a Core i5 laptop with Intel HD 4000 graphics.

GarIT

That bundle for €120 is sh*t it costs less if you split it up and buy everything separately. Id say you are just looking for Xbox live or something and getting over excited about it letting it cloud your judgement.

GarIT

Torqay wrote: »

That's what I keep saying... OP already has a gaming rig. He should focus on CPU performance and get a Core i5 laptop with Intel HD 4000 graphics.

I know I had hoped of more people said it he might listen. If you have around €1200 there's a laptop in pc world that might do what you need and its only 500 more than it costs on amazon.

beno619

Torqay wrote: »

How did you establish that without knowing the GPU model in the ASUS?

Most of the Asus machines in that price range in PC world come with the HD 4000 integrated graphics. Im just working with the info the OP has given us.

Like you guys have said I wouldn't go for either machine.

GarIT

Go tell your parents you can get everything you listed including the bundle on amazon for €800 with two day delivery or you can spend 1200 + the bundle to get what you need in pc world.

Torqay

beno619 wrote: »

Most of the Asus machines in that price range in PC world come with the HD 4000 integrated graphics. Im just working with the info the OP has given us.

Like you guys have said I wouldn't go for either machine.

Well, the one in question has a dedicated GPU with 2 GB RAM, we just don't know which model.

TerrorFirmer

The 7660G is about passable for very casual gaming (i.e, you don't mind playing at 1024x768 low settings to achieve good framerates in most new action titles), dunno what's in the Asus but it's probably something like a GT610 which is rubbish and would burst into flames trying to run anything modern on any settings.

If you just buy online and wait 3 days for delivery, it is possible to get a laptop twice as fast as either of those for gaming for less money. I have a Timeline I got for £399 off saveonlaptops.co.uk for example, it has a GT640 which is twice as fast as the 7660d in the A10.

solidMGSsnake

Ok guys I decided to get the Asus laptop, I'm talking to you on it now. I went into the store expecting to buy the HP but when I checked the specs of the Asus again they were better than I thought. It has an i3 like I said and with 6GB RAM and 750GB HDD (I was wrong) but the Graphics Card was a GT 720M, which according to the guy is better than a 640M. So did I pick the correct laptop or did I screw up?

Also my parents weren't willing to spend €800 on a laptop xD

The price of MS Office by itself was €100 so I think that deal is actually very good but the Office that came with it needs internet at all times to run so I instead opted for a different bundle that came with MS Office Unlimited, Norton for 3 PCs One Year Subscription and 1TB of Cloud Storage.

To be honest, I didn't really care about the Xbox Gold. I'm more of a PS3 gamer and even then I'm just as happy with a SNES. The Gold would have been nice but between college and my new PC with Steam, I probably would of just wasted it.

Harps

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Ok guys I decided to get the Asus laptop, I'm talking to you on it now. I went into the store expecting to buy the HP but when I checked the specs of the Asus again they were better than I thought. It has an i3 like I said and with 6GB RAM and 750GB HDD (I was wrong) but the Graphics Card was a GT 720M, which according to the guy is better than a 640M. So did I pick the correct laptop or did I screw up?

Also my parents weren't willing to spend €800 on a laptop xD

According to the benchmarks on notebookcheck the 640M is better, the 720M is comparable to a 630M which isn't much good for gaming. Other than that, the specs seem decent enough and it'll be perfectly fine for college work but doubtful you'd get any serious gaming done on it

Torqay

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Ok guys I decided to get the Asus laptop, I'm talking to you on it now. I went into the store expecting to buy the HP but when I checked the specs of the Asus again they were better than I thought. It has an i3 like I said and with 6GB RAM and 750GB HDD (I was wrong) but the Graphics Card was a GT 720M, which according to the guy is better than a 640M. So did I pick the correct laptop or did I screw up?

You tell me...





Clearly "the guy" has no clue...

With the HP at least you would have gotten this:



Seriously, that GT 720M is no improvement to speak of over the Intel HD 4000 which is integrated in your Core i3 processor anyway, it will only drain the battery faster when it kicks in.



This happens when you don't have all the facts... you could have rung the store and asked for the specs.

solidMGSsnake

Didn't think of ringing to be honest, well damn it anyway -_-
Oh well so I got a slightly worse laptop, who cares? I'm more annoyed that the guy lied to me or at least had no clue more than the inferior laptop itself. I knew I wouldn't get a beast anyway and I'm still happy with my desktop. To be fair I'll be getting a new laptop in a few years anyway, this was just to keep me going. The only thing I'm actually annoyed about is now I have way less battery life than the other laptop. I mean it says 70% remaining (1H 40M) That is just ridiculous battery life. Also the White HP's look was actually starting to look to feminine so I'm happy I pick this one as once I saw it again, it's look actually appealed to me much more than initially.

Also I think those scores are a little biased since only 4 samples were taken for the 720M.

Oh well thanks very much for your help guys, maybe I should of listened to you, I wouldn't of had this problem if I just remembered the bloody Graphics Card model -_-
But it is only slightly worse right? And since I actually like the look now I think I did ok in my circumstances. It still has slightly better graphics than the HP, the only thing I wish was I had more battery but it will be plugged in nearly all the time anyway.

So ya thanks anyway guys

GarIT

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

The price of MS Office by itself was €100 so I think that deal is actually very good but the Office that came with it needs internet at all times to run so I instead opted for a different bundle that came with MS Office Unlimited, Norton for 3 PCs One Year Subscription and 1TB of Cloud Storage.

You can use Microsoft office free online, and you can use openoffice offline for free too. You can get cloud storage from SkyDrive, Dropbox and/or Google for free.

I wouldn't touch the graphics card either.

GarIT

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Also I think those scores are a little biased since only 4 samples were taken for the 720M.

Oh well thanks very much for your help guys, maybe I should of listened to you, I wouldn't of had this problem if I just remembered the bloody Graphics Card model -_-
But it is only slightly worse right? And since I actually like the look now I think I did ok in my circumstances. It still has slightly better graphics than the HP, the only thing I wish was I had more battery but it will be plugged in nearly all the time anyway.

So ya thanks anyway guys

It's not biased just very few people have that card, if more people had it the score wouldn't be higher.

Only slightly worse, yeah, its only 50% as powerful. It's much worse graphics than the HP is it not?

solidMGSsnake

How do you mean you wouldn't touch the graphics card? I hardly bought it to never use it. Even if it does drain the battery, I'll only be using it at my house or in a computer lab where I can plug it in. Besides how could you not use it? It's in my machine, I can hardly remove it. Also I may not have the luxury of internet all the time to use Office online, what if the power goes out and I have a paper due? Also I doubt the free Offiice has all the same functions or Powerpoint and Excel.

GarIT

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

How do you mean you wouldn't touch the graphics card? I hardly bought it to never use it. Even if it does drain the battery, I'll only be using it at my house or in a computer lab where I can plug it in. Besides how could you not use it? It's in my machine, I can hardly remove it. Also I may not have the luxury of internet all the time to use Office online, what if the power goes out and I have a paper due? Also I doubt the free Offiice has all the same functions or Powerpoint and Excel.

I mean the laptop is as powerful as laptops you could get for €400. I wouldn't pay any amount of money for that card.

Open office does pretty much everything you could need. That's the point of it.

solidMGSsnake

Hey guys what about this?: Link

Remember I was never looking for better value, just better performance and according to this the 720 trumps it.

GarIT

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Hey guys what about this?: Link

Remember I was never looking for better value, just better performance and according to this the 720 trumps it.

That site does not compare performance, they compare many other pointless things.

I've never seen or heard of that site before, this site is the best and most well known for comparing performance. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php Here, the HP is 40% better.

beno619

Notebookcheck.net would be the go to site for me. http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-720M.90247.0.html .

I still think you should have bought online and saved 100 quid.

I though it was common knowledge that the staff in PC world are there to make a sale and nothing else.

Also it only would have taken a sec to Google benchmarks of the 720m before you bought it.

solidMGSsnake

Well they were getting a sale either way and the Asus was only slightly more expensive, you'd think they would of just been honest. I think he didn't know himself but was afraid that if he didn't seem confident he might drive me away so he just said what he thought I wanted to hear. I didn't have time to google it because the only time I could get a lift in was cutting it close to the closing time and also the guy I asked was busy I just called him over quickly. Mind you though, he was fully aware of what I asked and what graphics card the Asus had, it's not like he was in a hurry so just said anything.

I've a good mind to bring it back and tell them that the guy lied to me and make myself out to be a victim, if I kicked up enough fuss they would probably let me swap it or let me get some kind of deal just to shut me up. But I'm not going to go through all that. I mean it's a nice looking laptop and anything under an i5 wouldn't last me that long anyway.

I'll just buy a nicer one in 3-4 years. I'll only really be playing TF2 or LOL on it anyway, I'm sure it can at least run them on low settings. I wanted it to be able to run gaming alphas but I suppose that wouldn't of ever been possible to begin with without buying a high end laptop for €1000, I'm sure I can just use the kits they have at the college that are designed for it and I might eventually bring down my desktop as well.

GarIT

All you have to say is you were mis sold the laptop and they legally have to replace it.

Torqay

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I mean it's a nice looking laptop and anything under an i5 wouldn't last me that long anyway.

Why did you buy an i3 then?

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

It has an i3 like I said

Lets assume it's the lowest Core i3 model, then the AMD A-10 will easily beat it in CPU benchmarks.

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I'll only really be playing TF2 or LOL on it anyway, I'm sure it can at least run them on low settings.

Most certainly... and so can Intel HD 4000 graphics, probably even on medium details. Not particularly demanding stuff by todays standards.

With your budget and requirements, you should have bought yourself a Core i5 laptop (~30% faster than the i3). Forget about those worthless bundles too (Norton AV and LiveDrive cloud? Oh dear), this money would have been better invested in extra memory, which you can never have enough of.

But you were hell-bent on buying a "dedicated graphics card with 2 GB RAM" despite being told repeatedly that the amount of graphics RAM doesn't matter if the graphics chip is cr@p.

solidMGSsnake

I understood that, I'm not stupid. I wasn't hell bent on the graphics card, if I knew the 720m wasn't as good as the 640m than I wouldn't of gotten it. I was planning on buying the HP but when I saw the Asus had a 720M and I asked the guy then I thought it had a good graphics card. It's not my fault that I'm not familiar with graphics card models. I only got into PC building 2 months ago and in fairness, why would they call a worse graphics card the 720? I mean the 630 is worse than the 640 as well so you think the number would go up along with the performance.

I don't want to go through all that, besides I don't really like the look of the HP anymore, it looked too feminine. Also I've already installed all the anti-virus and office so either I would have to rebuy office for the replacement laptop or just do without it, unless they are generous enough to give me a new one for free.

I couldn't afford a laptop with an i5, there was actually a HP there, it looked nearly identical to the white AMD one but it was black and fitted with an i5 and some graphics card probably better than the 720M, but it was in the €700 range and my parents wouldn't get it. I needed a good gaming laptop relative to my budget, I wasn't expecting to run Crysis 3 on high or anything.

I needed MS Office either way and it was €100 so I might as well of gotten the bundle. I'm not going to rely on a free online version. To start out with I'm not going to even have internet in my house until my roommates agree on splitting the cost and what happens if the power goes out some night and I have a paper due? I would be in a right mess than. The anti-virus was just a plus and I don't really care about the cloud since as you said there are plenty of free cloud.