Car Tax Budget 2014?

drunkmonkey

Any ideas what will happen in this years budget?

Will we some kind of balancing between the CC and o2 based system?

Stheno

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any ideas what will happen in this years budget?

Will we some kind of balancing between the CC and o2 based system?

No both will go up about 10% for each band I reckon

irish bloke

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any ideas what will happen in this years budget?

Will we some kind of balancing between the CC and o2 based system?

It's definitely not going to get any better

drunkmonkey

10% Across the board would be a crime to pre July 08 cars.

Ardennes1944

Its gonna be my last time paying it here anyway so I dont care what they do!

dgt

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any ideas what will happen in this years budget?

Will we some kind of balancing between the CC and o2 based system?

I doubt it. Either way I'm investing in pallets of KY jelly for when the government f*cks me over again for a mess created by other c*nts

166man

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Its gonna be my last time paying it here anyway so I dont care what they do!

You leaving and selling the 325 already?

ba_barabus

Oh dear God its only August

Del2005

ba_barabus wrote: »

Oh dear God its only August

Budget is in October now. People didn't spend enough money last Christmas as they were afraid they'd get screwed in the budget, now they'll screw us in October so people can go mad at Christmas.

Scortho

As more older cars go off the road, they're going to have to up the rates on the newer cc cars.
Hopefully they'll reduce cc , in the next 5 years. There wont be that many on the cc system in 5 years anyway so they'll have to do something about it.

ba_barabus

Del2005 wrote: »

Budget is in October now.

So is my birthday. Although I rarely get anything unless I buy it myself.

Does boards want to start a charitable donation for the charity of my choice?

unkel

Bracing myself. Tax on my new car is due next month and it is €951. Not happy and can't really afford it, but if I don't pay it, other people will have to pay it for me, and the idea of that alone disgusts me.

Pay your dues folks. Times are terrible enough. We don't need any more tax dodging scumbags

JohnBoy26

drunkmonkey wrote: »

10% Across the board would be a crime to pre July 08 cars.

Some cars registered after july 08 on the c02 system are actually more expensive to tax compared to their cc based equivalent.

an avensis 1.6 vvti for example on the old cc based system is €514 per annum. The same car on the c02 based system is €750 per annum:eek:

visual

unkel wrote: »

Bracing myself. Tax on my new car is due next month and it is €951. Not happy and can't really afford it, but if I don't pay it, other people will have to pay it for me, and the idea of that alone disgusts me.

Pay your dues folks. Times are terrible enough. We don't need any more tax dodging scumbags

Thats the problem we just pay up.
When we bailed out the banks they knew we bitch but pay up.
When all the debt was transferred to the tax payer they knew we pay up.

Either we are in europe or we are not
Sick of being ripped off but yet pay up.

When I compare cars and running cost to uk I cry.... if I ever seen the green pary on the foot path they can see my 1809 euro tax disc race towards them.

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

Bracing myself. Tax on my new car is due next month and it is €951. Not happy and can't really afford it, but if I don't pay it, other people will have to pay it for me, and the idea of that alone disgusts me.

Pay your dues folks. Times are terrible enough. We don't need any more tax dodging scumbags

im not trying to be smart with you but If you can't afford it, why don't you sell up and buy something that's cheaper and more affordable to tax?

Hijpo

The fact that more people are less likely to be able to afford the full payment up front, therefor being left to pay every 3 months, which works out to be a higher cost than paying the full amount up front is in itself unfair and a rip off.

visual

Hijpo wrote: »

The fact that more people are less likely to be able to afford the full payment up front, therefor being left to pay every 3 months, which works out to be a higher cost than paying the full amount up front is in itself unfair and a rip off.

Thats why the new rules for declaring a vehicle off the road and interest on back tax was introduced.

rex-x

unkel wrote: »

Bracing myself. Tax on my new car is due next month and it is €951. Not happy and can't really afford it, but if I don't pay it, other people will have to pay it for me, and the idea of that alone disgusts me.

Pay your dues folks. Times are terrible enough. We don't need any more tax dodging scumbags

Cant agree, there comes a point where one has to say enough We cant continue to just smile nod and open our wallets

Hijpo

visual wrote: »

Thats why the new rules for declaring a vehicle off the road and interest on back tax was introduced.

i dont understand how those measures stop me from having to pay more to tax my car for not having €500 quid hanging around, while someone who does pays less for the same car.

Max Power1

Stheno wrote: »

No both will go up about 10% for each band I reckon

Hopefully not, sure that would add another €150-€180 to some people's tax bill :mad:

TRS30

I wish you could pay car tax monthly by DD. That is how I pay most of bills and doesn't mean I have to have €750 at one particular time of the year or pay over the odds by paying every 3 months.

munchkin_utd

visual wrote: »

<snip>
When I compare cars and running cost to uk I cry.... if I ever seen the green pary on the foot path they can see my 1809 euro tax disc race towards them.

indeed

and you convienently ignore the fact that they pay over a grand or more in property tax in the UK , so its swings and roundabouts

and my german tax on an 07 Focus 1.8Lpetrol based on the CC sytem is €125 a year BUT my income tax/ Prsi etc costs me about €500 a MONTH more in germany than in Ireland (and theres property tax on top of that again) so to be honest, I'd be 1000s better off in Ireland with paying silly motor tax but relatively modest income taxes

In Ireland motor tax is high to compensate for the low income taxes.
Its unfair, but when YOU (my vote was taken off me when I emigrated) keep voting for a low income tax policy, then it has to be made up for in unfair flat rate taxes that hit low and high income people the same.

bazz26

TRS30 wrote: »

I wish you could pay car tax monthly by DD. That is how I pay most of bills and doesn't mean I have to have €750 at one particular time of the year or pay over the odds by paying every 3 months.

That would just be an administrative nightmare and would only result in pushing the rates up even more to cover the cost of administrating it.

Sobanek

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed

and you convienently ignore the fact that they pay over a grand or more in property tax in the UK , so its swings and roundabouts

and my german tax on an 07 Focus 1.8Lpetrol based on the CC sytem is €125 a year BUT my income tax/ Prsi etc costs me about €500 a MONTH more in germany than in Ireland (and theres property tax on top of that again) so to be honest, I'd be 1000s better off in Ireland with paying silly motor tax but relatively modest income taxes

In Ireland motor tax is high to compensate for the low income taxes.
Its unfair, but when YOU (my vote was taken off me when I emigrated) keep voting for a low income tax policy, then it has to be made up for in unfair flat rate taxes that hit low and high income people the same.

And my Polish tax on a C63 AMG is €0.00

And my income tax/PRSI would be smaller in Poland

And the property tax is much lower than here.

Although I wouldn't be able to make the same money in Poland as I do here

Henry Ford III

I hope they continue to turn the scew on dirty polluters.







p.s. Joking

Sobanek

Sobanek wrote: »

And my Polish tax on a C63 AMG is €0.00

And my income tax/PRSI would be smaller in Poland

And the property tax is much lower than here.

Although I wouldn't be able to make the same money in Poland as I do here

I've never been to Poland, but I'm guessing that by the amount of Polish people who live in Ireland, that, despite all the tax, etc. being lower in Poland, the Irish wages must be a lot better (or it wouldn't be worthwhile staying here?)..?

I know Polish wages aren't supposed to be great, but I'm also lead to believe the cost of living is much lower, so it all ultimately balances out and you'd be much the same off regardless?


I realise that's not a motors topic, though.


I have a 1.8 Rav4 and forked out ~€650 last month. I definitely felt the hit on my wallet, but I knew what it was going to cost to tax the car before I bought it, so I can't complain.

A 10% rise on me wouldn't be so hard, but if anyone's driving a 3ltr machine, it begins to become a bit of an almost-funny situation. If I wanted to buy a Land Cruiser (only 3ltr i can think of off the top of my head, though I'm aware majority of them would be commercials with lower tax) I'd be paying the guts of €2,000 in tax every year.

That's a silly, silly number. I could buy two runaround cars each year for the money it'd be just to tax that one car. I just think it's a horrific number.

Del2005

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

im not trying to be smart with you but If you can't afford it, why don't you sell up and buy something that's cheaper and more affordable to tax?

Because Irish people always go for the cheaper option they won't get any money for it and will have to spend more to save a few Euro on tax. It'd cost more to change before the car becomes uneconomical to repair.

bazz26 wrote: »

That would just be an administrative nightmare and would only result in pushing the rates up even more to cover the cost of administrating it.

Just increase the rate that they have pay for the monthly DD to cover it. With the hopeful wide spread introduction of ANPR it'll be easy to catch people who haven't paid.

Sobanek

To end OT:

If I did the same job in Poland that I'm doing here (Security), my net salary per month would be 1350 PLN (that's what my friend earns) which is €318.97. Per month. I make about €1600-2000 here depending on the amount of hours.

Rent for a small studio apartment in Pruszkow (which is 20kms away from Warsaw) is 950 PLN per month which is €224.46

Petrol is €1.32 per litre
Diesel is approximately the same.
LPG is €0.52 per litre.

They all include road tax however.

Loaf of bread (decent one) is €0.64
Bottle of Coke (2 Litre) is €1.42
A kilogram of cheese (Gouda) is €5.90
Alcohol is very cheap - bottle of 70cl Absolut is €11.10 - that's what I paid a month ago anyways.
Cheapest beer I found was €0.40 for a can.

So it's not that great

Cars are quite expensive too. A 2002 Opel Astra 1.7 DTI which my godfather bought was €3,200.

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Bracing myself. Tax on my new car is due next month and it is €951. Not happy and can't really afford it, but if I don't pay it, other people will have to pay it for me, and the idea of that alone disgusts me.

Pay your dues folks. Times are terrible enough. We don't need any more tax dodging scumbags

While like yourself I always have the car taxed on time, I'm afraid the problem with your argument is that whether you or I pay it or not makes zero difference in the scheme of things - even if 100% paid it, it still wouldn't make any difference to the rates except that they'd still be increased every year.

It's hard to justify calling someone a "tax dodging scumbag" when those who collect/spend it are themselves corrupt and wasteful, and given that we get nothing back for motor tax as it is simply poured into the central pot for our government to piss away or hand over to foreign interests as payments for debts we don't/shouldn't owe!

I think THAT is why when it comes down to paying for things like food, rent or the ESB bill, or stuff for the kids going back to school, and something has to give, motor tax is low on the priorities ladder.

I'm not saying I agree with that mindset, but I can understand it.

Scortho

visual wrote: »

Thats the problem we just pay up.
When we bailed out the banks they knew we bitch but pay up.
When all the debt was transferred to the tax payer they knew we pay up.

Either we are in europe or we are not
Sick of being ripped off but yet pay up.

When I compare cars and running cost to uk I cry.... if I ever seen the green pary on the foot path they can see my 1809 euro tax disc race towards them.

If I ever see the Green Party around my neck of the woods ill hope in the alfa and watch them cry as busso goodness roars into life.

livingthedream

Originally Posted by JohnBoy26
im not trying to be smart with you but If you can't afford it, why don't you sell up and buy something that's cheaper and more affordable to tax?

I have a 3.0D jeep, as a result of the 2 last 100 euros a year hikes in road tax, the resale value of it has plummeted as nobody wants to have a huge road tax bill. That is understandable but those of us already with such vehicles face the option of either selling the car and taking a massive hit on the sale price or take it in the ass each year from the govt!!

I am a bit of a car enthusiast and can do 90% of the work on the car myself so I am just about inclined to hang onto the car I know and like.... but I am still very pissed about the tax rate.

Nobody should have to pay more than 1000 a year for road tax imho...

TRS30

bazz26 wrote: »

That would just be an administrative nightmare and would only result in pushing the rates up even more to cover the cost of administrating it.

Why?

I do it for my most of my other bills and is common place across a lot of different industries. You can even do it for the Property Tax so don't see why motor tax would be any different.

Max Power1

TRS30 wrote: »

Why?

I do it for my most of my other bills and is common place across a lot of different industries. You can even do it for the Property Tax so don't see why road tax would be any different.

Could even do it for motor tax too :P

TRS30

Max Power1 wrote: »

Could even do it for motor tax too :P

Love the edit button

bear1

visual wrote: »

Thats the problem we just pay up.
When we bailed out the banks they knew we bitch but pay up.
When all the debt was transferred to the tax payer they knew we pay up.

Either we are in europe or we are not
Sick of being ripped off but yet pay up.

When I compare cars and running cost to uk I cry.... if I ever seen the green pary on the foot path they can see my 1809 euro tax disc race towards them.

What kind of car do you own?

bear1

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never been to Poland, but I'm guessing that by the amount of Polish people who live in Ireland, that, despite all the tax, etc. being lower in Poland, the Irish wages must be a lot better (or it wouldn't be worthwhile staying here?)..?

I know Polish wages aren't supposed to be great, but I'm also lead to believe the cost of living is much lower, so it all ultimately balances out and you'd be much the same off regardless?


I realise that's not a motors topic, though.


I have a 1.8 Rav4 and forked out ~€650 last month. I definitely felt the hit on my wallet, but I knew what it was going to cost to tax the car before I bought it, so I can't complain.

A 10% rise on me wouldn't be so hard, but if anyone's driving a 3ltr machine, it begins to become a bit of an almost-funny situation. If I wanted to buy a Land Cruiser (only 3ltr i can think of off the top of my head, though I'm aware majority of them would be commercials with lower tax) I'd be paying the guts of €2,000 in tax every year.

That's a silly, silly number. I could buy two runaround cars each year for the money it'd be just to tax that one car. I just think it's a horrific number.

To be honest, Poland isn't that cheap. Clothes and electronics are cheaper in Ireland. Their average wages (friends over there have told me) are about 600/700e net in the capital.
Food is not that cheap also. They are also against the Euro arriving (cant blame them) as it will make things even worse)
What is cheap are cigarettes, fuel is cheaper and bills in general are cheaper

The Bishop Basher

I refuse to pay motor tax although that will become a little more difficult now.

When the government decide to introduce a fair, reasonable and equitable system I will decide to pay.

The problem is that most people in this country just take a deep breath, bend over and accept the rogering. As long as that's the case, nothing will change.

Max Power1

Swanner wrote: »

I refuse to pay motor tax although that will become a little more difficult now.

When the government decide to introduce a fair, reasonable and equitable system I will decide to pay.

The problem is that most people in this country just take a deep breath, bend over and accept the rogering. As long as that's the case, nothing will change.

So you live in the country eh?
Around the big schmoooke we don't have such an option

Anan1

Swanner wrote: »

I refuse to pay motor tax although that will become a little more difficult now.

When the government decide to introduce a fair, reasonable and equitable system I will decide to pay.

The problem is that most people in this country just take a deep breath, bend over and accept the rogering. As long as that's the case, nothing will change.

In the mean time, we'll continue to pay for you.

Chimaera

We'll never see it happen but I think the fairest way to do it would be discontinue motor tax entirely or reduce it to a nominal amount and increase fuel duties instead.

Currently motor tax is a cost of ownership rather than a cost of running. People who keep a car for occasional use are penalised while high mileage drivers make a relative saving per km driven. (Yes I know there's no real saving but when the most reliable method of quantifying the cost of running/owning a car is per km driven it's a useful measure).

Let's do a short worked example:

Assuming most cars are B2 or lower now for road tax, we'll set the median tax rate paid to be that which is €280 annually.

The average annual distance driven in Ireland is AFAIK around 20000 km per year. So that €280 breaks down to 0.014 €/km.

If that car averages 6.5 l/100 km for fuel economy, that equates to 0.215 €/l for road tax.

So if we added that 21.5 cent to the fuel duty and eliminated the flat rate motor tax entirely, most motorists would probably be no better or worse off. Low mileage motorists will see a saving while high-mileage motorists will pay more. Allowances/waivers could be implemented for hauliers to keep freight costs under control.

Administration costs are reduced since the tax is now collected through the existing fuel duty infrastructure, and payment by installments is built-in for the motorist.

For motoring enthusiasts there are added benefits: owning a large-engined car for occasional use becomes far more viable since there's huge annual tax bill - if you have a few euro spare to fuel it up you can go out on the road and enjoy it and you're not paying to have it sit in a shed/garage when it's not being used.

It'd probably rebalance the car market too and make people consider other issues besides tax band when buying a car.

_Kaiser_

Anan1 wrote: »

In the mean time, we'll continue to pay for you.

But that's not true though.. while I fully agree he SHOULD pay, even if he (and anyone else who doesn't pay) does pay, it will make no difference to our tax bill. the rates only go one way. The justification will be that the country is €20bn in the red - the reality being it's to keep the status quo and gravy flowing at the top.

What I find ironic (or moronic may be more apt) here is that the vast majority of people in this country drive and rely on their car to get around (to work, school, shopping, whatever). For any other group that would be a powerful lobby, yet the Irish motorist has absolutely no influence in the policies that affect every one of us.

_Kaiser_

Chimaera wrote: »

We'll never see it happen but I think the fairest way to do it would be discontinue motor tax entirely or reduce it to a nominal amount and increase fuel duties instead.

Currently motor tax is a cost of ownership rather than a cost of running. People who keep a car for occasional use are penalised while high mileage drivers make a relative saving per km driven. (Yes I know there's no real saving but when the most reliable method of quantifying the cost of running/owning a car is per km driven it's a useful measure).

Let's do a short worked example:

Assuming most cars are B2 or lower now for road tax, we'll set the median tax rate paid to be that which is €280 annually.

The average annual distance driven in Ireland is AFAIK around 20000 km per year. So that €280 breaks down to 0.014 €/km.

If that car averages 6.5 l/100 km for fuel economy, that equates to 0.215 €/l for road tax.

So if we added that 21.5 cent to the fuel duty and eliminated the flat rate motor tax entirely, most motorists would probably be no better or worse off. Low mileage motorists will see a saving while high-mileage motorists will pay more. Allowances/waivers could be implemented for hauliers to keep freight costs under control.

Administration costs are reduced since the tax is now collected through the existing fuel duty infrastructure, and payment by installments is built-in for the motorist.

For motoring enthusiasts there are added benefits: owning a large-engined car for occasional use becomes far more viable since there's huge annual tax bill - if you have a few euro spare to fuel it up you can go out on the road and enjoy it and you're not paying to have it sit in a shed/garage when it's not being used.

It'd probably rebalance the car market too and make people consider other issues besides tax band when buying a car.

Not this argument again...

1. Most people in this country rely on their car to get around as public transport is abysmal or non-existent once you go outside Dublin (and even in parts of it).
I drive a 3.0 TDI A6 on the old system myself but that's a choice and I recognize that I don't NEED such a car, just as most people don't buy cars on that basis either. To average the Irish motorist a car is a tool not a pleasure - hence the number of base-spec bland boxes around the place.

2. Property prices meant that many people had no choice but to move to the commuter belt (which can be as far as Westmeath, north Louth or Kildare/Carlow). These people have to work so have to commute by car

3. Job loss, high costs and salary reductions means that the vast majority of people with cars (as evidenced by the national fleet stats) don't own low-tax CO2 cars, but older CC based ones

Adding tax to the fuel (which is also high - and most of which is already tax as govt duty) will only further hit people in the groups above.

Also it's fallacy to think that it'll be a fairer system as any shortfall caused by the change will be made up through other levies or charges .. in the same way as the existing 2-tier system so spectacularly backfired when everyone went out and bought <€200 tax BMW 520ds as govyt policty encouraged them to, so they hiked those rates in the last budget too.

galwaytt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

im not trying to be smart with you but If you can't afford it, why don't you sell up and buy something that's cheaper and more affordable to tax?

...well if you own the car already, and you can't sell it - and obviously if money is tight you can't just run out and buy a new car to replace it, first..........so: like me, also on a €951 p.a. rate - despite ads etc, couldn't sell it.

So selling it isn't always an option - for some cars there are no buyers.

We still have to have transport.

visual

bear1 wrote: »

What kind of car do you own?

Jeep grand cherokee 3.1 liter
I'm not interested in owning a micra or some other biscuit tin because some fool on a bicycle waving a green flag has some stupid view that they are saving the planet.

I might be forced back into a 2 liter car but I don't see why irish motorist can't have decent vehicles.

Two years of bad snow, no salt for road. Floods most years, roads full of potholes it really is the right vehicle for ireland if you can justify the fuel
cost. But there is no justification for level of road tax.
Yes I said road tax as calling it motor tax is removing any association with obligation to maintain roads.

bear1

Couldn't agree with you more there Visual. I dont have a 3.1 car but a 2.4 and a 1.9 so I feel your pain

JohnBoy26

galwaytt wrote: »

...well if you own the car already, and you can't sell it - and obviously if money is tight you can't just run out and buy a new car to replace it, first..........so: like me, also on a €951 p.a. rate - despite ads etc, couldn't sell it.

So selling it isn't always an option - for some cars there are no buyers.

We still have to have transport.

Obviously it's not as easy as what I said, but did he not buy his current car only a week ago? Surely it wasn't the best move to buy a car knowing that a month down the road he will have to fork out an unaffordable amount to pay for the tax on that car.

Max Power1

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Obviously it's not as easy as what I said, but did he not buy his current car only a week ago? Surely it wasn't the best move to buy a car knowing that a month down the road he will have to fork out an unaffordable amount to pay for the tax on that car.

But the problem is that next year there might be a 10% increase, followed by similar increases year on year.

What is affordable to someone @900pa in 2013 may not be affordable in 2016 @1100 pa.

Nothing changed, they bought a car with (to them) affordable tax.

unkel

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

it will make no difference to our tax bill.

Of course it makes a difference. The state needs that money and if hundreds of thousands of people don't pay their motor tax, the state wi'll have to get it elsewhere (raise taxes, perhaps the motor tax again) or start spending less (less hospital beds, less services)

If someone doesn't pay, others have to pay for them. It really is that simple...

JohnBoy26

Max Power1 wrote: »

But the problem is that next year there might be a 10% increase, followed by similar increases year on year.

What is affordable to someone @900pa in 2013 may not be affordable in 2016 @1100 pa.

Nothing changed, they bought a car with (to them) affordable tax.

but sure didn't he say that he "can't really" afford the tax. That's at todays rate. If you factor in the possible increases it makes for an even less sensible purchase.

unkel

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Obviously it's not as easy as what I said, but did he not buy his current car only a week ago?

I did. I sold my 12 year old car and I bought a 9 year old car. Hardly the summit of lavish spending, is it?

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

I did. I sold my 12 year old car and I bought a 9 year old car. Hardly the summit of lavish spending, is it?

no of course it's not but it's running costs I am on about and not the purchase price;)