If you have been refused your rights by Argos Irl, read & PM me. Small Claims Court

An Ri rua

Synopsis.

I bought a netbook in Argos at Christmas.
In May, the screen switched from vertical to horizontal. We got that sorted. A week later, it went kaput. Showing it to Argos, the counter staff decided it was an ink bleed. Possibly, but not caused by any abuse by us. I have a similar netbook, older, and it is in perfect condition. Plus a 10 year old Dell laptop in perfect condition and a 210K 13 year old car that I've owned since 70K and 5 yrs old. That is also perfect. So, I don't break things. Full stop.

ps Its a publicised fault with this netbook. Many others had reported it. All Argos had to do was push the issue to the manufacturer. Could they be too cosy with manufacturers? I don't know. I do know I am far from alone in being refused my rights and being offered (attempted duping) on a consistent basis an insurance which I DO NOT NEED. Our Sale of Goods Act is stronger than even the EU retail law. Don't forget it. Our country is not always the basket-case we think. And many of our public servants (like the Small Claims Court) do EXCELLENT WORK on our behalf.

Argos, when contacted by the Small Claims Court, rolled over and acceded to granting my rights. In fact, they have REFUNDED where I only wanted a repair.

If you have been <SNIP> over by Argos or any other retailer who gladly take your money, undercut smaller operations and then refuse to carry back legitimate complaints to manufacturers (in my view an unholy alliance that is probably 'rewarded' by the manufacturers (who would not reward such a 'returns buffer' ? )), then press for your rights here, at the Small Claims Court. Its ONLINE now, so you have no excuse, you lazy <SNIP>

I believe that every monetary action we take should be valued in terms of workhours. If Argos think that I would work 3 days free for them, they are sadly mistaken. Will you? Will you work free for someone or will you simply demand that your consumer rights re honoured? I would shed blood for less. I wouldn't take a cent that wasn't mine but I would and will out companies that abuse terms of contracts in my country. Argos, with their <SNIP> 'insurance' scheme (<SNIP>?) is one such company.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

https://smallclaims.courts.ie/esmallclaims/claim/Main?page=home&Language=English

Go n'eirí an bothar leat

mcw92

I have no idea what this post is about.

Did Argos not offer to send away for repair or replace the laptop for you when the screen was damaged?

being offered (attempted duping) on a consistent basis an insurance which I DO NOT NEED.

This is Argos staff policy to offer this. Same as any store will offer you an extended warranty or inform you of one.

If Argos think that I would work 3 days free for them, they are sadly mistaken

When did they ask you to work 3 days for free? lol


Also their 'insurance' is not insurance, it is an extended warranty. It is a one off fee, that you have the option to purchase.
While a normal warranty covers manufacturer's faults, this covers accidental also, and is between 2-3 years depending on what you buy.
They will usually replace the item on the day for you, except in the case of laptops/tablets etc where they might have to be sent of to the manufacturer.

ZENER

. . . an ink bleed./QUOTE]

Do you mean like this ?



The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

An Ri rua

mcw92 wrote: »

I have no idea what this post is about.

Did Argos not offer to send away for repair or replace the laptop for you when the screen was damaged?



This is Argos staff policy to offer this. Same as any store will offer you an extended warranty or inform you of one.


When did they ask you to work 3 days for free? lol


Also their 'insurance' is not insurance, it is an extended warranty. It is a one off fee, that you have the option to purchase.
While a normal warranty covers manufacturer's faults, this covers accidental also, and is between 2-3 years depending on what you buy.
They will usually replace the item on the day for you, except in the case of laptops/tablets etc where they might have to be sent of to the manufacturer.

You're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about") >> This fully answers my question... :rolleyes:

Argos, by implying accidental damage, to not just my laptop, but to numerous other incidents that have been brought to my attention, were shrugging off their responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act when we both entered into a contract as equal parties. By taking my money and not holding up their end of the bargain, you can now label that how you like: - theft, fraud, the list goes on. Essentially, 3 earned days of net income for me that they had attempted to appropriate by underhand means. You can tussle with the concepts if you like. This post is to help some; if it educates you in the process, well isn't that an indirect bonus, grasshopper.

This post is for anyone who has been denied their consumer rights by Argos, not a request for help in understanding the basics of consumer law, courtesy of your esteemed self :rolleyes:

noodler

An Ri rua wrote: »

YOu're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about" >> This answers my question... :rolleyes:

This post is for anyone who has been denied their consumer rights by Argos, not a request for help in understanding the basics of consumer law, courtesy of your esteemed self :rolleyes:

There are a few strange points in your post alright.

The Irish Sales of Goods Act is for manufactuirng faults, the insurance or extended warranty offered at the counter by Argos and a million other retailers is for personal negligence etc.

An Ri rua

ZENER wrote: »

. . . an ink bleed./QUOTE]

Do you mean like this ?



The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

Hi yes, similar to that. Not caused by any knocks on our part. caused by an over-flimsy screen on the MSI U180. Complained about by others here http://www.fixya.com/support/t14016413-msi_wind_u180_netbook_lcd_screen_looks

An Ri rua

noodler wrote: »

There are a few strange points in your post alright.

The Irish Sales of Goods Act is for manufactuirng faults, the insurance or extended warranty offered at the counter by Argos and a million other retailers is for personal negligence etc.

I'm aware of that. The netbook had a manufacturer's fault. They (untrained retail staff on the front counter) were deciding that it was ink bleed from a fall. I had to insist that our views be included on the report to the assessor. Otherwise, it would have been a wasted exercise. Argos told me that if I had insurance, they could repair the fault, if not it would cost. Yet the fault was a manufacturers. So I take your point, that there are a few strange jumps in my post. But that assumes that Argos are working with all of our best interests at heart. From indirect credible feedback I have received, this is not the case. Yes, it should be a simple case of repair, replace, refund. But not if you can point to accident and negligence. I do not assume that businesses seek to implement consumer rights fully and neither should anyone else. In fact, a recent Irish or UK national survey proved that the majority of high street retailers were negligent and a frightening number misdirecting, in their disseminaton of consumer rights in these scenarios. That, to me, points to a cosy relationship with manufacturers; at the expense of the uneducated consumer.
If I had no case, the Small Claims Court would not have approved it. Argos, it would seem, are a bit naughty....

I should also add that my initial post possibly reads bit loopy as I had just drained a bottle of wine . But the post is still generally accurate. I have anecdotal proof of many people being denied their rights for repair, replace, refund. I have very credible feedback that underscores that anecdotal assessment. I also have approval from the SCC and a cheque from Argos saying that I am right and they are wrong. Or maybe I am wrong and @mcw92 is right? Maybe ....

donkey_kong

An Ri rua wrote: »

Or maybe I am wrong and @mcw92 is right? Maybe ....

I don't think he's trying to dispute the basic point of your post, if I understand it correctly, that the small claims court is a marvelous tool for consumers to protect their statutory rights from retailers unwilling to honour them as what happened with you and Argos on this occasion. I totally agree that it is up to the consumer to use tools like the small claims court to claim what they are entitled to rather than taking for granted that retailers like Argos will do it for them. I think he was challenging instead the tone of your post which I feel was implying that this was a deliberate piece of malpractice by Argos constituting fraud, and that their extended warranty is a scam, and that they habitually behave like this (I fully accept in your case they did indeed behave illegally).

Maybe he's nitpicking or missing your greater point about encouraging consumers to make themselves aware of their rights and use the small claims court when they are threatened, but I feel you're overreacting in dismissing him as 'arrogant' and his opinion unworthy of debate with your MSc and professional experience, and maybe you're being a little unfair to Argos. You're right that Argos do not repair generally but mcw92 is correct that laptops and netbooks are one of the few items that they do, in general, elect to send to the manufacturer for repair rather than replace or refund if they agree that their is a manufacturers fault, precisely because Argos retail staff are in general too undertrained to make an immediate call on the cause of fault with such complex devices. In your case it appears that the staff involved didn't follow this procedure and you were forced to go to the small claims court to exercise your statutory rights. On this occasion Argos were indeed guilty of neglecting their legal responsibility so congrats on your refund.

Despite my own nitpicking here OP is right about small claims court folks, brilliant citizens resource, and he's right that you shouldn't take it for granted that Argos (or any other retailer) will always behave correctly. Buyer beware!

zenno

I'm astonished as to how many Irish folk that don't know their consumer rights, all it takes is a few minutes to read them and you then know where you stand, as your rights as a consumer are paramount in the case of being sold faulty goods and the first repair must be permanent etc...

If anyone wants to know what rights they have as a consumer, just take 8 minutes of your time to read them, it's important to us all to know this.

NCA

http://www.nca.ie/nca/faulty-goods

whippet

I am failing to see what the point of this thread is really?

it is either:

a) a public service announcement that the Small Claims Court exists (which NCA advertising has been telling us for years)
b) Some one who got joy from the SCC and wants to beat his chest so loudly that everyone will know how great he is.

OP, fair play to you on your persistence and ultimate satisfaction but you have far too many conspiracy theories in their for me to take much of your claim seriously.

BTW .. mentioning your MSc randomly in one of your posts won't endear you to too many people, I know people with PHds etc and can barely tie shoe laces.

Cabaal

OP, why are you asking people to PM you exactly?

You can't deal with somebody's issue on their behalf, you can't lodge a class action suit (they don't exist in Ireland).

dudara

I do not disagree with your sentiment about making sure that people educate themselves on their consumer rights.

But I do not want to give you a soapbox either. Please validate the reason for this thread, and why you are asking posters to PM you, given that the issue has been resolved.

dudara

yoyo

ZENER wrote: »

The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

This would be a driver feature (generally Intel display drivers support this hotkey and I think ATI ones). Nvidia drivers do not have hotkeys to rotate the display that I know of

Nick

An Ri rua

Cabaal wrote: »

OP, why are you asking people to PM you exactly?

You can't deal with somebody's issue on their behalf, you can't lodge a class action suit (they don't exist in Ireland).

I will answer your question CONCISELY Mod. And @dudara's. Because if you use the wrong address for the retailer, your case will fall flat in its face. If you use the address on CRO or on the back of the till receipts, your case 'may' fall flat on its face. If you use the address that I have been advised works, your case will hit home.

That's the primary reason for the post. Am I beating my chest? Maybe. Apologies for mentioning my MSc. My point is I am a sales professional for 20 years and don't take kindly to the 'lols' of @mcw92's post. Hence my response. I was posting to help others, not to ask for help from the over-confident, over-assuming. Retailers in general do NOT have consumers' best interests in mind. If I was selling into a channel (I have done) and one high street retailer was over-zealous in returns versus others' behaviour, then it would influence sales negotiations. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive.

Not wishing to stand up on a soapbox. Hoping to drive home to people (yes, most people fail to press for their basic rights) that the SCC is there, it is now accessible online (Mods, really, how many people know of that ease of access?) and that they owe it to themselves and their families and fellow consumers to press on when problems occur. Ensure accountability.

Kind regards

Mountjoy Mugger

Would it not be more helpful to the community if you simply posted the address here?


It would save everyone time and effort.

ZENER

yoyo wrote: »

This would be a driver feature (generally Intel display drivers support this hotkey and I think ATI ones). Nvidia drivers do not have hotkeys to rotate the display that I know of

Nick

Hi
That option does appear in the Screen Resolution dialog, but it only works if it is supported by the installed hardware/drivers. You apparently have a monitor that is capable of rotating and you're making assumptions that every system works like yours.
Some graphic devices do support a keyboard shortcut to rotate the screen, notably nVidia, enables the Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys.
Please post the details of your system, including the make and model of the monitor and graphics device. We may be able to find something that will work for you.
Regards,
Thank You for using Windows 7/QUOTE]

From here.

Ken

mcw92

An Ri rua wrote: »

I'm aware of that. The netbook had a manufacturer's fault. They (untrained retail staff on the front counter) were deciding that it was ink bleed from a fall.

There is no way Argos can prove that it was a manufacturers fault.
It could easily have being a knock to the laptop that caused it.

Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds.
The same with tablets, they send it away, and contact you when it is back and fixed.

I also have approval from the SCC and a cheque from Argos saying that I am right and they are wrong

Argos are not going to go to the SCC over something one laptop, they are obviously going to replace it for you. I wouldn't call this a huge accomplishment for you 'winning' like this.

You're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about") >> This fully answers my question... :rolleyes:

When did i say i have more authority or knowledge?
And no Argos do not repair items.
If the item was bought within the year, and is a general electric item with a fault not caused from negligence, they will replace it on the spot for you.
ie. Kettle, Vacuum Cleaner.

If it is a laptop or tablet, they will have to send it away to the original manufacturer, Asus, Sony etc. for them to determine the cause and to get them fixed.

And "I have no idea what this post is about" because this post is pointless.
All you are doing is telling people how bad your experience with Argos was,
Why would a user PM you??

dudara

Please state why you are requesting that posters PM you?

dudara

An Ri rua

dudara wrote: »

Please state why you are requesting that posters PM you?

dudara

I have already clearly stated that. If the response is not suitable, please advise. One other poster has already suggested.

An Ri rua

mcw92 wrote: »

There is no way Argos can prove that it was a manufacturers fault.
It could easily have being a knock to the laptop that caused it.

Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds.
The same with tablets, they send it away, and contact you when it is back and fixed.



Argos are not going to go to the SCC over something one laptop, they are obviously going to replace it for you. I wouldn't call this a huge accomplishment for you 'winning' like this.


When did i say i have more authority or knowledge?
And no Argos do not repair items.
If the item was bought within the year, and is a general electric item with a fault not caused from negligence, they will replace it on the spot for you.
ie. Kettle, Vacuum Cleaner.

If it is a laptop or tablet, they will have to send it away to the original manufacturer, Asus, Sony etc. for them to determine the cause and to get them fixed.

And "I have no idea what this post is about" because this post is pointless.
All you are doing is telling people how bad your experience with Argos was,
Why would a user PM you??

Apart from your deciding to interject in my clear advice to others to be more aware of their rights in regards to Argos specifically, and most retailers generally, I am not quite sure as to why yo are batting so strongly for Argos. That is, unless I analyse your posts. Perhaps you work for them, perhaps not. But you are batting very strongly for the robustness of their retail policies and that is a tad nerdy unless you work for them.

You also assume that some people accept being implied as a liar quite amicably. I don't. I simply don't break things. Hence why accidental damage being implied by totally untrained counter staff really p*ssed me off. I stated clearly that it had encountered problems for 2-3 weeks previously. They told me we should have brought it in immediately. I don't know where that's covered in legislation. They also said it HAD been dropped. That is clearly an issue when I am perfectly aware it has not been dropped. Just because many people lie to retailers does not mean that I have to accept being tarred with the same brush. I value and mind items. Hence why I described the older MSI netbook I'm typing on now, my high-mile car, the known fault circulating online about the MSI U180 ultra-thin screen.
You are wrong. Argos DO offer to repair. I was offered it, at my cost. The 'assessor', A&J Henry have not got a fantastic reputation online either. The costs described to repair the netbook were double what sourcing that replacement screen and professional labour would be. I priced it. The SCC intimated that a similar repair quote scenario exists in the world of mobile phones; such as to put off consumers.
You seem to assume dishonesty in punters and honesty in retailers. That is a tad biased. Some punters are honest. Some retailers are too. But the facts in my case speak volumes. As do anecdotal stories, if one cares to listen.

ps you say "Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds. >> You are batting TOO STRONGLY for Argos. You forget that Argos are subject to the laws of Ireland. And the Sale of Goods Act extends WELL BEYOND any rules Argos or these manufacturers set. That is one of the main points of my posting. Consumers have rights and should become more fully aware of their rights. Including now the ese with which they can take a case online through the Small Claims Court.

Also worth reading this thread. Thanks to @foggylad and others http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80026448 This is Ireland. We pay over the odds for almost everything already, compared to our Brit and European neighbours. I think we should therefore be zealous in pressing home our strong consumer rights.

An Ri rua

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small Claims Court.

There is no need to PM me.

However, can I ask the Mods, what exactly is the issue with anyone PM'ing me? Is it breaking a rule? If so, I apologise. But which rule?

Kind rgds

twowheelsonly

On the other side of the coin...

Twice I've had to return goods to Argos.
Twice their customer service has been excellent.

Most recent was a relatively expensive watch that I dropped (I'm human, like just about everyone that I know I've been known to break a few things in my 49 years on this earth) and I told Argos this. No problem - they replaced it on the spot.
The other item was a television stand, broken out of the box. No problem - they replaced it on the spot.

Undoubtedly, if 95% of people saw that damage they would question if it was dropped. I assume that the Argos staff would think the same. You have the advantage of having researched the problem, something that they hadn't at first. Kindle had a similar problem with some of their screens and were replacing them no questions asked once the problem came to light.
I have no doubt that if this issue was dealt with in a reasonable manner in the first instance then it could have been resolved without recourse to the SCC.

mobpd

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small claims court

I sent pm but no reply yet

Menas

I still don't know what this thread is about..but regarding Argos I have never had an issue getting a replacement for electrical product, I have had three faulty items from them in the last decade.
As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you.

dudara

An Ri rua wrote: »

I have already clearly stated that[/B]. If the response is not suitable, please advise. One other poster has already suggested.

If I am interpreting you correctly, you are offering to share the correct address for Argos Ireland when attempting to lodge a Small Claims Court. However, this is not immediately clear from your posts. It would be far easier if you could post the address in this thread.

Apart from your deciding to interject in my clear advice to others

Please play nice with other posters. Everyone is entitled to add their opinion, as long as it is relevant to the thread.

hat is, unless I analyse your posts. Perhaps you work for them, perhaps not. But you are batting very strongly for the robustness of their retail policies and that is a tad nerdy unless you work for them.

This comment is thrown out by so many posters when someone else posts contradictory comments. It is guaranteed to annoy posters who may be just trying to help or offer other opinions.

skinny90

I'm confused.
Hypothitical scenario here:
Lets say i buy a laptop which has a cheap plastic external case and instead of putting it in a laptop bag.
Instead of putting it in a laptop case I opt for a sleave again very cheap .i throw a few college books into the bag and from all the pressure I get a screen bleed. Even tho there may not be scratches or evidence of it been dropped by using your methodology I could argue that this is a manufacturing fault ??
Surely greater protection to the retailer is required if that's the case

Bepolite

Just some ancillary points. OP you come across in this thread in a certain way; whether that is how you come across face to face only you know. While I've no particular love for retailers who flout consumer protection laws, some people do make it very difficult to help them when you've the competing issues of policies designed to prevent fraud and a customer demanding satisfaction for a legitimate issue, especially in a non-specialist store, dealing with an industry that traditionally hasn't complied with consumer laws itself (computer sector).

Retailers will almost always refund at the point of the small claims court, frankly this isn't a particularly satisfactory situation, which leads me on to disagreeing with your point in relation to our consumer protections being satisfactory. They are in need of reform, mainly to remove the ambiguity, but also to simplify and codify what actions need to be taken at each stage. Let's not forget that the 1980 Act simply reads in parts of the 1893 Act, old law isn't necessarily bad law, but the dynamic of consumer contracts had changed immeasurably in the last 120 years. There are also all sorts of ancillary legislation and no published decisions on interpretation. It's unclear for the consumer and unclear for the retailers, who will inevitably end up paying out on spurious claims.

Anyway to make a point, the majority of people, in a fairly reasonable number of threads here seem satisfied with Argos, the minority find satisfaction through the SmCC. No business is perfect, sometimes it needs an independent third party to adjudicate parties on both sides do tend to have a propensity to over react.

matt-dublin

So from what I get, my interpretation is that the OP isn't overly computer literate originally mistaking a feature of the device as a fault.

Don't really see the relevance of that in the post.

Then the screen cracked "by itself due to manufacturing flaw" and the OP overstates that they have never broken anything like it before quite defensively (or suspiciously?)

Brought the item back to Argos who were well within their right to deny the swap as it looks like user damage.

Wasn't happy with the result and went to the SCC to get their jollies and screw Argos for what seems to be clearly user damage?

Then comes on here to brag about it. Stating they know a specific address but not the one on the company registration (because that's wrong apparently even though it's illegal for it to be wrong?) that everyone has to use if they want to bring a claim against them but doesn't tell anyone about it or in fact doesn't tell anyone what this thread is really about?

@Dudara I hate back seat modding but do I have to??????

Mountjoy Mugger

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small Claims Court.

There is no need to PM me.

Kind rgds

Still waiting....

mcw92

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

Still waiting....

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap

.......as slowly as possible...:P

banchang

I have a HP tablet which stopped working after 22 months. Bought in Argos Jervis St.

Both Argos & HP say it is outside warranty, & that to repair it would cost me Eur50 to send away to HP to assess, & thereafter I would have to cover the costs of HP's repair.

I said that warranties are irrelevant in the context of consumer rights, but Argos insist that they will do no more.

Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.

The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely. It was treated with kid gloves during its 22 months of life, housed in a strong leather cover, never received a fall, water or any other kind of damage, & only had light usage, as shortly after buying the HP I also bought an Ipad, & the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software. Went to it 3 weeks ago & it had simply shut down & was unresponsive. I had left it in to Argos to send away but they called me at the weekend to tell me the above news, so they still have it.


My question is about the Independent Expert certification on the fault.

Citizensinformation.ie says about preparing for SCC :

Gathering evidence

When presenting your information to the court, you should back it up with evidence wherever possible. You should:

have your receipt or other proof of purchase ready
bring the faulty or damaged goods to the court to show them to the judge
take photographs of poor workmanship, damaged property or poor quality goods or services that you can't bring to court
get an independent opinion by another expert and have the expert appear in the court as your witness (you will be responsible for any expense this might incur)
bring any letters, advertisements or any other documents you may have relied on when buying the goods or services
ask any other person who can back up your claim, especially in the case of faulty services provided, to attend as a witness. You can send them a witness summons if necessary – the Small Claims Registrar can issue a witness summons on your behalf for a small fee.


Not sure - do I need to pay someone to certify that this brick is faulty ?

Also grateful if you could share the correct Argos address as has been reference in this thread.

Any other advice on the SCC claim appreciated.

matt-dublin

Why don't you contact the manufacturer and log a warranty call with them?

banchang

matt-dublin wrote: »

Why don't you contact the manufacturer and log a warranty call with them?

I did.

They said it went out of warranty after 12 months. Argos gave the same response. I said that a tablet like this should have a life expectation of longer than 22 months, but both HP & Argos refuse to say or offer anything further.

whippet

The problem you have is that if you show up in court with a device that isn't working and you can't actually present evidence of what the fault is the judge can't just take your word for it that it was minded and just stopped working.

Get on to HP, log a call; they will diagnose it over the phone email you a record of the case and then probably offer a repair service.

If you have this call reference number it would suffice as independent (as in independent of you and of argos) as to what the fault is.

One thing I noticed from your post is that you haven't used it much since buying it 22 months ago; I would assume that the battery wasn't charged in all that time. Did you have a read of the manual to see what it said about maintaining battery health? More than likely the battery is wasted due to not being charged / cycled etc.

If you didn't maintain the battery as per the manufactures instructions you may be fighting a loosing battle.

matt-dublin

battery warranty is only six months maximum from any manufacturer anyway

banchang

whippet wrote: »

One thing I noticed from your post is that you haven't used it much since buying it 22 months ago; I would assume that the battery wasn't charged in all that time. Did you have a read of the manual to see what it said about maintaining battery health? More than likely the battery is wasted due to not being charged / cycled etc.

If you didn't maintain the battery as per the manufactures instructions you may be fighting a loosing battle.

Please see my original note

"the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software".

whippet

banchang wrote: »

Please see my original note

"the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software".

used little may degrade the battery, It looks like you have a battery issue and if you look at any paper work that came with the device you will probably see information on maintaining battery life. Unless you followed the advise you won't have a leg to stand on.

BTW .. I would imagine the device will capture battery usage and cycles etc so this is something that you won't be able to bluff on.

banchang

Thanks for replies.

To clarify, when I say used little, it would have been picked up & used daily, but not for long periods, & would have always been kept charged.

paulboland

warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months

Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period

Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months

You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance

Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
It would be up to you to pay for outside tech report on the HP tablet and would have to show it was a design fault to make a claim outside of warranty as in to prove it was a fault from day one of use

banchang

paulboland wrote: »

warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months

Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period

Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months

You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance

Was working fully on during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended

Thanks for reply but thankfully EU Consumer legislation trumps any random warranty period which a manufacturer or retailer attaches to a product they sell you.

paulboland

banchang wrote: »

Thanks for reply but thankfully EU Consumer legislation trumps any random warranty period which a manufacturer or retailer attaches to a product they sell you.

http://www.nca.ie/nca/guarantees-warranties

ScouseMouse

paulboland wrote: »

warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months

Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period

Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months

You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance

Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended

Hey Paul.

The warranty is what the manufacturer gives you in the case of it being faulty or packing up. Consumer rights in Ireland make Argos give you a lot more.

Have a read here.

foggy_lad

banchang wrote: »

Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.

This is something they say now to get you to just give up or to pay someone else to repair the item even though they as the retailer are responsible for repairing.

The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely. It was treated with kid gloves during its 22 months of life, housed in a strong leather cover, never received a fall, water or any other kind of damage, & only had light usage, as shortly after buying the HP I also bought an Ipad, & the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software. Went to it 3 weeks ago & it had simply shut down & was unresponsive. I had left it in to Argos to send away but they called me at the weekend to tell me the above news, so they still have it.

Sounds like it has developed a fault which ishould be covered by your statutory rights!

My question is about the Independent Expert certification on the fault.

Citizensinformation.ie says about preparing for SCC :

Gathering evidence

When presenting your information to the court, you should back it up with evidence wherever possible. You should:

have your receipt or other proof of purchase ready
bring the faulty or damaged goods to the court to show them to the judge
take photographs of poor workmanship, damaged property or poor quality goods or services that you can't bring to court
get an independent opinion by another expert and have the expert appear in the court as your witness (you will be responsible for any expense this might incur)
bring any letters, advertisements or any other documents you may have relied on when buying the goods or services
ask any other person who can back up your claim, especially in the case of faulty services provided, to attend as a witness. You can send them a witness summons if necessary – the Small Claims Registrar can issue a witness summons on your behalf for a small fee.


Not sure - do I need to pay someone to certify that this brick is faulty ?

No, you do not need to pay anyone except the small claims court fees. These are just options for you when attending the SCC of presenting your evidence, the first option of bringing the faulty/damaged goods to the court with you would suffice in this case as the Judge will see the external condition and the care taken etc.

In the current economic climate many companies, often British chain stores, are using this type of ploy to dissuade customers from seeking or asserting their statutory rights! even Declan the managing director of Currys was doing it on their Talk to forums on boards.ie. others who do this are Argos and Smyths toys.

foggy_lad

paulboland wrote: »

warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months

Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period

Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months

You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance

Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
It would be up to you to pay for outside tech report on the HP tablet and would have to show it was a design fault to make a claim outside of warranty as in to prove it was a fault from day one of use

Warrenty = Manufacturer or paid for warrenty

Statutory Rights = Guaranteed by law and you deal exclusively with the retailer!

jimmycrackcorm

banchang wrote: »

I have a HP tablet which stopped working after 22 months. Bought in Argos Jervis St.

Both Argos & HP say it is outside warranty, & that to repair it would cost me Eur50 to send away to HP to assess, & thereafter I would have to cover the costs of HP's repair.

I said that warranties are irrelevant in the context of consumer rights, but Argos insist that they will do no more.

Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.

The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely.

Have you check the usual Touchpad not charging solutions? I've had this before also with mine.

I've had to use the power off and home combo for 15 seconds but also with a new usb charger and cable (Had to buy a 2amp usb charger of Ebay as the usual mobile chargers don't provide enough amperage.

paulboland

Guarantees and warranties


A guarantee is a document from the manufacturer confirming that they will repair or replace an item if something goes wrong within a certain amount of time after you buy it. Products that come with a guarantee include household goods such as electrical appliances and furniture.

A guarantee gives you additional protection and strengthens your consumer rights. The guarantee usually applies to the goods during the lifetime of the guarantee.

Check the terms and conditions

Always check the terms and conditions of the guarantee. For example, you may need to register the guarantee with the manufacturer for certain conditions to be met. Unless you are expressly told otherwise when you bought the goods, deal directly with the retailer if you need to return goods under guarantee.

Don’t forget the small print

The guarantee might explain what happens if you give or sell the item to somebody else during the guarantee period. Find out exactly what is covered by the guarantee. For example, with electrical goods, are all parts or just specific parts covered? Is labour included and is there a limit on how much?

Warranties

When you are buying a product, the shop may ask if you would like to buy a warranty. This is like an insurance policy - it covers the product beyond the manufacturer's guarantee period.

So, you shouldn’t have to pay for repairs if the item breaks or becomes faulty within the period covered by the warranty.

Before you agree to a warranty, remember:
•It is completely optional and can be expensive, so do not feel pressured to take one.
•Consider the cost of replacing the faulty item and compare this to the cost of the warranty. Replacing the item may cost less than the warranty.
•Guarantees and warranties are legally binding on the company – they are enforceable through the courts if necessary.


You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one
You cant go back to a shop 2-3-4 years later if something breaks and expect to get it fixed free if its not covered already by warranty
You must PROVE its was a fault already there from day one

matt-dublin

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Have you check the usual Touchpad not charging solutions? I've had this before also with mine.

I've had to use the power off and home combo for 15 seconds but also with a new usb charger and cable (Had to buy a 2amp usb charger of Ebay as the usual mobile chargers don't provide enough amperage.

did you not use a genuine charger?

this instantly voids any warranty

foggy_lad

paulboland wrote: »

Guarantees and warranties


A guarantee is a document from the manufacturer confirming that they will repair or replace an item if something goes wrong within a certain amount of time after you buy it. Products that come with a guarantee include household goods such as electrical appliances and furniture.

A guarantee gives you additional protection and strengthens your consumer rights. The guarantee usually applies to the goods during the lifetime of the guarantee.

Check the terms and conditions

Always check the terms and conditions of the guarantee. For example, you may need to register the guarantee with the manufacturer for certain conditions to be met. Unless you are expressly told otherwise when you bought the goods, deal directly with the retailer if you need to return goods under guarantee.

Don’t forget the small print

The guarantee might explain what happens if you give or sell the item to somebody else during the guarantee period. Find out exactly what is covered by the guarantee. For example, with electrical goods, are all parts or just specific parts covered? Is labour included and is there a limit on how much?

Warranties

When you are buying a product, the shop may ask if you would like to buy a warranty. This is like an insurance policy - it covers the product beyond the manufacturer's guarantee period.

So, you shouldn’t have to pay for repairs if the item breaks or becomes faulty within the period covered by the warranty.

Before you agree to a warranty, remember:
•It is completely optional and can be expensive, so do not feel pressured to take one.
•Consider the cost of replacing the faulty item and compare this to the cost of the warranty. Replacing the item may cost less than the warranty.
•Guarantees and warranties are legally binding on the company – they are enforceable through the courts if necessary.

You seem to be forgetting about or just ignoring all consumers have STATUTORY RIGHTS which protect them when things go wrong. these rights will most times offer greater protections than any of the warrenties including those which have been paid for.

paulboland

foggy_lad wrote: »

You seem to be forgetting about or just ignoring all consumers have STATUTORY RIGHTS which protect them when things go wrong. these rights will most times offer greater protections than any of the warrenties including those which have been paid for.

You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one
other wise you will have people breaking the product due to misuse or pretending its a fault not caused by them

Products don't last forever unless it says so and has a lifetime guarantee in writing

products break due to lot of reasons some its the design fault and some is user fault but to make a claim in small claims court you must prove the product if not fit for purpose from day one
If you have a Warrenty then all repair cost or replacement will be covered by the retailer or Manufacturer
Outside of a warrenty period you still have the option of getting a repair done and not pay for repair if the tech report shows it was a design fault
If fault is due to misuse the cost of repair is with the consumer

foggy_lad

paulboland wrote: »

You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one

no you don't have to do anything of the sort!

If a product stops working as it should it is broken and will need assessing and repair.

if covered by a manufacturer warranty you can chose to get it repaired this way or you can chose to deal exclusively with the retailer as they are the only other party to your contract for the purchase of the goods.

In the case of a mobile phone or washing machine etc the product not working as it should and no signs of customer mistreatment or deliberate or accidental damage is enough.

http://www.nca.ie/nca/faulty-goods

Faulty goods – your rights

Where goods turn out to be faulty and where you are not to blame, you have a number of options under consumer law. Faults with goods may be major or minor and present different issues for particular products.

If the fault is major, for example if you buy a mobile phone and it stops working shortly after you start using it due to a major fault with the phone, you have the option to reject the goods and rescind (end) the contract.

If the fault is minor, for example a button is missing from a piece of clothing you bought, you have the option to request a repair, replacement, a reduction in the price you paid or a refund. However, if the trader refuses to meet your requests or there is an unreasonable delay in providing one of these remedies, then you have the right to reject the goods and rescind the contract.

Your contract is with the retailer or supplier who sold you the goods or products so if there is a fault, it is up to them to fix it. You may also have extra protection if you have a guarantee or warranty from the manufacturer.
What to do

You should return the faulty item to the seller as soon as possible and explain what the problem is. If you think it might be useful, print out the page and bring it with you. If you have a complaint about faulty goods, shop notices such as "No Refunds" or "No Exchanges" do not limit your rights. Some shops display these notices, particularly during the sales, but this does not take away your rights under consumer law if the goods are faulty.
Reject & rescind

When you buy goods, you enter into a contract with the seller. If those goods turn out to be faulty and the fault is major, you are entitled to reject the goods and rescind (end) the contract. If you simply reject the goods, for example, a broken bill-pay phone, you may still be tied into a contract unless you demand to cancel it without any penalty fees.

This option is complex and can depend on a number of factors. For example, the severity of the fault, the length of time since you bought the goods, and the inconvenience caused to you as a result of the fault. If a fault occurs within the first 6 months of purchase, it is assumed that is was there at the time of sale. It is important to remember that if you caused the fault, the trader is under no obligation to offer you any type of compensation.
Repair

If you request a repair of a faulty product instead of rejecting it, it should be a permanent repair. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can reject it. But if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.

Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
Replacement

If you opt for a replacement, it should be the same as the item you bought, or of similar quality and price.

You should not have to pay extra for a replacement and should be given the difference in price if the replacement costs less than the item you originally bought.
Refund

If you opt for a refund, this can be in cash or by cheque, or the retailer can refund your credit or debit card account if you used one to buy the item. You do not have to accept a credit note or voucher as a refund as they are not equivalent to cash. You can choose a refund instead.
Other options

You have the option to use the Small Claims process as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. The application fee is €25 and the service is provided in your local District Court.

If you paid for the goods by credit or debit card, your card provider may agree to reverse the transaction. This is called a chargeback. Contact your provider immediately and give them details of your transaction.

If you have any queries about your options, you can contact us.

Remember:

You have no rights under consumer law if you change your mind about the goods you have purchased. However, some shops may offer you an exchange as a gesture of goodwill
The shop is entitled to request proof of purchase, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the shop receipt. You could show your credit or debit card statement if you used one or any other documentation that proves it was purchased in that particular shop or retail chain

If you received the item as a gift, you will need to have a proof of purchase if you need to return it to the seller for any reason. This can take the form of a gift receipt, which you may need to request from the person who bought the item.

Pat Mustard

An Ri rua wrote: »

many of our public servants (like the Small Claims Court) do EXCELLENT WORK on our behalf.

Argos, when contacted by the Small Claims Court, rolled over and acceded to granting my rights. In fact, they have REFUNDED where I only wanted a repair.

Good stuff.

I am not targeting Argos when I say this, but I think that customer service from many larger companies is often of an unacceptably low standard in this country. It is a low standard to which the Irish consumer has become accustomed, and takes for granted.

In any case, it seems that the OP was taken much more seriously by the seller when he brought his Small Claims Court proceedings.

I believe that if more people were prepared to assert their consumer rights in this country, customer service standards would have to improve overall. And not a day too soon, either.

A job well done by the OP.