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Why don't we put up the price of petrol?

  • 22-08-2013 10:47AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭


    Why don't we add a cent or whatever to petrol and abolish motor tax?

    It'll stop people who avoid paying it.

    It'll cut down on a large section of government bureaucracy.

    It'll cut down on our courts being clogged up.

    Will help cut down Garda time being wasted with enforcement.

    It'll make people more mindful of how how much petrol they use and maybe push them to use alternative forms of transportation.

    It's much fairer on motorists who might only want to drive for certain parts of the year.

    The farmers already get fuel at a different price point to everyone else so food prices and all that won't be effected.

    Thoughts?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭Hardonraging


    Would it not just be easier if say i made a list of ever one i think is a 'banker' and we tax them at 75% of their wages ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    I'm 100% for this.
    Lets up petrol prices galore and do away with road tax!



    /diesel car owner


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Why don't we add a cent or whatever to petrol and abolish motor tax?

    It'll stop people who avoid paying it.

    It'll cut down on a large section of government bureaucracy.

    It'll cut down on our courts being clogged up.

    Will help cut down Garda time being wasted with enforcement.

    It'll make people more mindful of how how much petrol they use and maybe push them to use alternative forms of transportation.

    It's much fairer on motorists who might only want to drive for certain parts of the year.

    The farmers already get fuel at a different price point to everyone else so food prices and all that won't be effected.

    Thoughts?
    I think a better idea is to ban private motorists altogether.

    There is no need for half the cars that are on the road, making pointless journeys and causing untold damage to the environmemt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Would it not just increase the supply and demand for illegal fuel?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭Hardonraging


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    I'm 100% for this.
    Lets up petrol prices galore and do away with road tax!



    /diesel car owner


    +1 repping the Green brah !! nothing like seeing an 08 X5 tearing up the M7 with enough black smoke tearing out the rear of it to cause an accident ..

    but seriously ... diesel's where it's at !!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    wazky wrote: »
    Would it not just increase the supply and demand for illegal fuel?

    Was bout to say that.


  • Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It would be better as you could keep a nice 3lt weekend car and not have to pay 2k a year to tax it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭marketty


    This idea has been around for a long time alright, and getting rid of green diesel and replacing it with a rebate, in order to eliminate diesel laundering. I've yet to hear a sensible reason why both these measures haven't been implemented.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭Hardonraging


    marketty wrote: »
    This idea has been around for a long time alright, and getting rid of green diesel and replacing it with a rebate, in order to eliminate diesel laundering. I've yet to hear a sensible reason why both these measures haven't been implemented.


    Exploitation no doubt, where there is a will there is a way,. much like kerosene and cooking oil ..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    I think a better idea is to ban private motorists altogether.

    Hate it when people say "Cycle/Walk to work instead of driving" yada yada yada.

    Sure, that's great if you're already living in the city, where it's reasonable distance to whatever, be it walking/cycling to work or public transport... but I doubt you put much thought into that with regards to people in rural areas...

    Good luck telling me to walk or cycle for 3 hours just to get to town, and another 3 hours back!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I think a better idea is to ban private motorists altogether.

    There is no need for half the cars that are on the road, making pointless journeys and causing untold damage to the environmemt.

    Especially when the cars are lung-destroying carcinogenic diesels.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Hate it when people say "Cycle/Walk to work instead of driving" yada yada yada.

    Sure, that's great if you're already living in the city, where it's reasonable distance to whatever, be it walking/cycling to work or public transport... but what people living in the countryside?

    Good luck telling me to walk or cycle for 3 hours just to get to town, and another 3 hours back!

    There's too many people living in the countryside as well, but that's a whole other thread. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Does anyone really believe that motor tax rates will be reduced if everyone pays it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    So I'm paying road tax to use my lawnmower now, am I? :P

    It is a good idea. The more you use, the more you pay. As for the argument that it will increase the use of illegal fuel, it is probably true. However, you can't let that be an excuse for not trying such a scheme


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,152 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I think we should just tax walkers and cyclists.

    Then drivers can drive around in bliss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭marketty


    I suppose the real issue is how ridiculously reliant the exchequer is on all forms of motoring taxation, VRT, 'road' tax, fuel duty, NCT, etc etc. all of which are, let's face it, taxes on going to work. The government don't want to raise income taxes as this is seen as detrimental to employment. Well so is spending 20% of your income on getting to work.
    Public transport is not a viable option for the majority of the population. Whose fault that is or what can be done about it is a different issue. As for the environmental issue, it would be great if we could all switch to electric/hybrid vehicles tomorrow, but again not really an option for most of us, for the time being at least. And of course going back to my first point, if we were all to go electric tomorrow you can bet your life we would be paying an 'electric vehicle tax' to make up the thousands of euro per person per year that the exchequer would be losing


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Why don't we add a cent or whatever to petrol and abolish motor tax?

    It'll stop people who avoid paying it.

    Thoughts?

    It makes no difference where the government gets tax from, as very little if any of it, goes back into investing in the direct source of that tax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,060 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The answer to the OPs question is: In Ireland the motor tax regime as it applies to commercial vehicles is fairly generous, i.e. they pay disproportionately less tax for heavier vehicles that are on the road more often. If you did away with MT and reapplied it across fuels, the Haulage trade would be paying as they go, at the same or similar rates to private drivers, which in fairness might cripple them and so the powerful haulage lobby would never allow it to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Why don't we just increase fuel price and also increase motor tax.

    Problem solved!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    wazky wrote: »
    Would it not just increase the supply and demand for illegal fuel?

    There would be thousands of extra man hours a year for the gardai to chase up the illegal fuel gangs

    We should also put the price of compulsary third party insurance onto the price of fuel.

    This would immediately mean that there are no more uninsured drivers.

    If drivers want to pay for fully comprehensive or theft or additional cover, they can pay for that privately.

    The insurance companies would no longer be able to extort money from drivers as insurance policies would not be a legal requirement.

    Bad drivers should be punished using the penalty points system/courts system, not through private insurance companies

    If there is a case for restricting the types of cars young people have acces to, this should be done through legislation, not by the current system where some young people can only afford to insure crappy 1 litre starlets from the early 90s, while others can afford 2.5 litre rally cars

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,615 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Why don't we add a cent or whatever to petrol and abolish motor tax?

    It'll stop people who avoid paying it

    People here have run the numbers before and it would require 30 - 50 cent being added on to the price of a litre of petrol. I think it's a great idea but I don't imagine any government will increase fuel cost that much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Does anyone really believe that motor tax rates will be reduced if everyone pays it?
    Maybe not,

    but there are lots of other benefits
    1. If you drive less you pay less road tax
    2. if you drive like a lunatic, you'll burn more fuel and pay more tax
    3. You'll be able to afford to buy a decent car with safety equipment that happens to have a big engine capacity rather than have all these lovely cars going to the scrapyard while tinfoil micras are kept on the road forever
    4. You won't have big annual or quarterly bills for tax, spreading the cost over the year is much easier
    5. You won't have to take the day off work to go and tax the car at the tax office that never opens at a convenient time
    6. If you buy a new car that hasn't been taxed yet, you don't run the risk of a court appearance when you're driving it home from the garage.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    The answer to the OPs question is: In Ireland the motor tax regime as it applies to commercial vehicles is fairly generous, i.e. they pay disproportionately less tax for heavier vehicles that are on the road more often. If you did away with MT and reapplied it across fuels, the Haulage trade would be paying as they go, at the same or similar rates to private drivers, which in fairness might cripple them and so the powerful haulage lobby would never allow it to happen.

    It would be very easy to have a tax rebate system for the hauliage industry where they could claim back the tax above a certain level

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Maybe not,

    but there are lots of other benefits
    1. If you drive less you pay less road tax
    2. if you drive like a lunatic, you'll burn more fuel and pay more tax
    3. You'll be able to afford to buy a decent car with safety equipment that happens to have a big engine capacity rather than have all these lovely cars going to the scrapyard while tinfoil micras are kept on the road forever
    4. You won't have big annual or quarterly bills for tax, spreading the cost over the year is much easier
    5. You won't have to take the day off work to go and tax the car at the tax office that never opens at a convenient time
    6. If you buy a new car that hasn't been taxed yet, you don't run the risk of a court appearance when you're driving it home from the garage.
    Conor Faughnan is quoted in the article stating that 'nobody should have to pick up the tab left behind by people who don't pay'. This implies he thinks rates would be reduced with full compliance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Conor Faughnan is quoted in the article stating that 'nobody should have to pick up the tab left behind by people who don't pay'. This implies he thinks rates would be reduced with full compliance.

    Not necessarily. If the government decides this year that they want to squeeze another X million out of motor tax, they divide that X by the total number of people who pay the tax. So if I pay the tax, I'll be paying extra to cover those who don't.

    However, if everybody who currently doesn't pay suddenly got a bout of guilty conscience and started to pay, I can't see the government lowering the rate. There are too many starving bondholders to feed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    animaal wrote: »
    However, if everybody who currently doesn't pay suddenly got a bout of guilty conscience and started to pay, I can't see the government lowering the rate. There are too many starving bondholders to feed.
    That was my point!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    Why don't we add a cent or whatever to petrol and abolish motor tax?

    A cent? Hmmmmm

    I am guessing the average persons motor tax for a year is circa 400 euros. Some people will be more some will be less.

    That is 8 quid a week or so. I am guessing (again) that average fuel bill for a week per car is in the region of 40 euro? (lets assume it is for arguments sake). In order for the government to make that extra 8 quid on the petrol to allow them scrap motor tax then the price of petrol would have to jump by 20% or 32 cent a litre.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭red sean


    Akrasia wrote: »
    There would be thousands of extra man hours a year for the gardai to chase up the illegal fuel gangs

    We should also put the price of compulsary third party insurance onto the price of fuel.

    This would immediately mean that there are no more uninsured drivers.

    If drivers want to pay for fully comprehensive or theft or additional cover, they can pay for that privately.

    The insurance companies would no longer be able to extort money from drivers as insurance policies would not be a legal requirement.

    Bad drivers should be punished using the penalty points system/courts system, not through private insurance companies

    If there is a case for restricting the types of cars young people have acces to, this should be done through legislation, not by the current system where some young people can only afford to insure crappy 1 litre starlets from the early 90s, while others can afford 2.5 litre rally cars

    So we should all pay exorbitant insurance costs of idiots who have amassed a load of penalty points, convictions, disqualifications etc? :rolleyes:

    I don't think so!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    john_cappa wrote: »
    A cent? Hmmmmm

    I am guessing the average persons motor tax for a year is circa 400 euros. Some people will be more some will be less.

    That is 8 quid a week or so. I am guessing (again) that average fuel bill for a week per car is in the region of 40 euro? (lets assume it is for arguments sake). In order for the government to make that extra 8 quid on the petrol to allow them scrap motor tax then the price of petrol would have to jump by 20% or 32 cent a litre.

    That's not completely unreasonable in my book. Great idea but too revolutionary to sit well with the masses and, consequently, political suicide. Shame.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 neuvoculchie


    if this was introduced and say it worked out at an extra 10 cent per liter you can bet that the petrol stations would raise the price by 30 cent at the pumps


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