Prgramming/Gaming Build Help

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Hi, guys. I'm looking to put together a new build, and the people on this forum have given me great advice on previous builds, so I'm hoping I can tap that fount of knowledge again.

1. What is your budget? €1,500-€1,700.

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? The main purpose will be for work, which is programming, webdev and sysadmin. I'd also like to be able to play games, in particular BF4 on High at 1440p when it comes out.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No.

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? No.

5. Do you need a monitor? Yes.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. Having read through the Catleap thread, I'm thinking of buying two of these, and maybe a third in the future (if that's possible to power). The ~€650 or so for two of them and customs is included in the budget.

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? Yes, 2x 2550*1440.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? I need a good keyboard and mouse, and a draft AC wireless card. I'd also like a headset for VOIP and gaming.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yes.

8. How can you pay? Any of the following: Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser

9. When are you purchasing? In the next 2 weeks, hopefully, although I can wait for ~4 if there's a good reason.

Having used HWVS before, I wouldn't mind using them again, although I'm open to suggestions. I'm also open to raising the budget if necessary.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

BloodBath

Why 3 of them? I would say you aren't going to power 3 of those monitors for gaming without spending about 3k+ on the pc alone. That would be over 11 million pixels. Nearly 6 times the amount of a single 1080p monitor.

Taking €650 away from your budget doesn't leave much to power even 1 of them for gaming. It's not possible along with the peripherals you need.

For your budget I would recommend a single 1440p monitor for gaming. You could get a secondary one for your desktop. Definitely don't bother trying to set 3 of these up for gaming unless you want to spend about 5 grand.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

BloodBath wrote: »

Why 3 of them? I would say you aren't going to power 3 of those monitors for gaming without spending about 3k+ on the pc alone. That would be over 11 million pixels. Nearly 6 times the amount of a single 1080p monitor.

Taking €650 away from your budget doesn't leave much to power even 1 of them for gaming. It's not possible along with the peripherals you need.

For your budget I would recommend a single 1440p monitor for gaming. You could get a secondary one for your desktop. Definitely don't bother trying to set 3 of these up for gaming unless you want to spend about 5 grand.

Hi, Bloodbath, I definitely don't want more than one for gaming. I just want the real estate for work - I'm using 4 23" 1080p monitors now, and they already get cramped.

If we knock the accessories on the head, how much would you think I'd need to spend for decent performance on just the one? I'm really not sure what it takes to drive one, to be honest.

BloodBath

Well you have 2 options. You could either go with a single monitor and a more powerful pc, linked below, or you could cut corners a little on the pc front to include 2 monitors. I did a how low can you 1440p thread a while ago that you could use for 2 monitors with enough left over to get your peripherals and upgrade a couple of the parts. Thread here.


Item|Price
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€83.99
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.69
Nanoxia Deep Silence Two Dark Black, ohne Netzteil|€78.92
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 700W|€80.54
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.84
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€114.32
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9-9-9-24|€54.43
2 x Nanoxia Deep Silence 140 - 1100|€17.98
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Plantronics Headset GameCom 780|€52.28
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€790.68

Graphics cards x 2 €500

bladesofglory

BloodBath wrote: »

Well you have 2 options. You could either go with a single monitor and a more powerful pc, linked below, or you could cut corners a little on the pc front to include 2 monitors. I did a how low can you 1440p thread a while ago that you could use for 2 monitors with enough left over to get your peripherals and upgrade a couple of the parts. Thread here.


Item|Price
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€83.99
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.69
Nanoxia Deep Silence Two Dark Black, ohne Netzteil|€78.92
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 700W|€80.54
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.84
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€114.32
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9-9-9-24|€54.43
2 x Nanoxia Deep Silence 140 - 1100|€17.98
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Plantronics Headset GameCom 780|€52.28
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€790.68

Graphics cards x 2 €500

Biggest problem is GpU power? Where is that coming from to power multiple 1440p Screens.

Its alot of power required for those screens when gaming

BloodBath

He's only using 1 for gaming. The other 2 would be for work only.

I'm not sure how you can use 3 screens though as those monitors only accept dvi-d connections of which there is only 1 per card.

Unless you get one of the models that has the extra connectivity. They cost a little more.

bladesofglory

BloodBath wrote: »

He's only using 1 for gaming. The other 2 would be for work only.

I'm not sure how you can use 3 screens though as those monitors only accept dvi-d connections of which there is only 1 per card.

What sort of FpS would he be getting on a 1440p with those GpUS

BloodBath

There is no alternative within the budget except for maybe 2 x 4gb 760 gtx cards that costs reasonably more for 2 cards.

Since no games are using over 2gb graphics memory for 1440p yet I would say 3gb is a safe bet.

bladesofglory

BloodBath wrote: »

There is no alternative within the budget except for maybe 2 x 4gb 760 gtx cards that costs reasonably more for 2 cards.

Since no games are using over 2gb graphics memory for 1440p yet I would say 3gb is a safe bet.

Yeah very true, really you wannabe spending fair bit more on GpU power to gain optimal setting on those screens

rd1izb7lvpuksx

BloodBath wrote: »

There is no alternative within the budget except for maybe 2 x 4gb 760 gtx cards that costs reasonably more for 2 cards.

Since no games are using over 2gb graphics memory for 1440p yet I would say 3gb is a safe bet.

bladesofglory wrote: »

Yeah very true, really you wannabe spending fair bit more on GpU power to gain optimal setting on those screens

Thanks, BloodBath & Blades, I realy appreciate your help with this. If I'm willing to spend more, another few hundred, would you suggest anything different?

bladesofglory

Kameron Eager Percussion wrote: »

Thanks, BloodBath & Blades, I realy appreciate your help with this. If I'm willing to spend more, another few hundred, would you suggest anything different?

Blood can best advise my friend, he will help you out.

Depends on the budget you have set for GpU power

BloodBath

You could just get the build above with 2 monitors if you want to spend €1900.

Keep in mind the connectivity on the basic versions of those monitors is dvi-d only. One of these would be perfect for the gaming monitor as there is less input lag from the lack of screen menu and multiple port options.

However if you want another monitor with more connectivity for other devices you could get one that has hdmi dvi and display port connections. These ones also have the screen menu options afaik but aren't overclockable and have slightly higher input lag.

If you you use 3 monitors there is a chance at least 1 of the monitors will have to be like this as the cards only have 1 dvi-d connection per card.

Unless there is another way that I don't know about.

bladesofglory

Kameron Eager Percussion wrote: »

Thanks, BloodBath & Blades, I realy appreciate your help with this. If I'm willing to spend more, another few hundred, would you suggest anything different?

Just set yourself a budget and keep to it, as believe me you can spend THOUSANDS

rd1izb7lvpuksx

bladesofglory wrote: »

Just set yourself a budget and keep to it, as believe me you can spend THOUSANDS

I think you're right. I set myself a limit of €1,500 for everything minus the monitors (above my initial request, I know), and using BloodBath's suggested build, i came up with this:

From HWVS:
Item|Price
ASRock Z87 Extreme6/AC, Sockel 1150, ATX|€196.34
Nanoxia Deep Silence Two Dark Black, ohne Netzteil|€78.92
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 700W|€80.54
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Sharkoon FireGlider Mouse|€20.94
2 x Scythe Slip Stream 140 XT 140 mm Case fan, 1200rpm|€17.18
Pioneer DVD-XD01B|€25.90
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€445.80
From Amazon.co.uk
Item|Price
Intel Core i5 4670K|£184.24
G.Skill 16GB DDR3|£97.59
2 x 2 x Sapphire 11196-09-40G HD7950 3GB|£430.06
Samsung 840 250GB SSD|£126.99
Logitech Keyboard|£7.65
Plantronics .Aduio 450|£14.93
Shipping|- ? -
Total|£861.46

The Amazon order would come in at about €1,050 by my bank's exchange rate today, totalling €1,500 for the lot. Is this a good build? Are there any obvious mistakes that I'm missing? Will the GFX cards, with SL DVI-D and DL DVI-I, be able to run the QNIX monitors?

Thanks again for you help.

BloodBath

Why are you going for a €200 mainboard? You're paying loads for a lot of extra features you don't need and you won't use.

An external dvd drive?

The 4670k is cheaper on HWVS.

You don't need 16gb of ram for anything you have listed. Nothing will come close to using 8gb.

The ssd is slightly cheaper on HWVS.

The mouse I recommended is significantly better for only €4 more.

Those headphones are fairly crap for the money.

You have no cpu cooler to overclock the 4670k. I left the cpu cooler out of my own build as well though. Forgot it.

No hdd? Games are 30gb+ these days. A 250gb ssd won't get you far. A single fast 1tb WD blue is a good gaming drive.


With a budget of €1500 I made several upgrades to your order.

HWVS
Item|Price
Intel Core i5-4670K Box, LGA1150|€211.13
Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW|€38.84
MSI Z87-G45 Gaming, ATX, Sockel 1150|€134.93
8GB-Kit G-Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9|€59.21
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.69
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€146.98
Nanoxia Deep Silence One Dark Anthracite, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€94.07
Corsair Professional Series HX750 80PLUS Gold 750W|€119.07
Asus DRW-24F1ST Bulk Silent|€19.90
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Plantronics Headset GameCom 780|€52.28
2 x Scythe Slip Stream 140 XT 140 mm Case fan, 1200rpm|€17.18
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1000.97

Amazon
Item|Price
2 x 2 x Sapphire HD7950 3GB|£430.06
Logitech Keyboard|£7.65
Shipping|- 0 -
Total|£437.71

rd1izb7lvpuksx

BloodBath wrote: »

Why are you going for a €200 mainboard?

Thanks again for your time, BloodBath. I chose the Z87 Extreme6/AC for the draft AC wifi, which the home network is running, and the bluetooth. Both of which I thought would be add-ons I'd have to buy seperately, but seeing them on the MoBo seemed like a better deal, although maybe I'm wrong about that?

BloodBath wrote: »

An external dvd drive?

THe external drive is just to load windows, and then to have knocking about. I don't have any optical drives at all in the house, and that's been a pain just a few times in the past.

BloodBath wrote: »

The 4670k is cheaper on HWVS.

Thanks! That was stupid of me.

BloodBath wrote: »

You don't need 16gb of ram for anything you have listed. Nothing will come close to using 8gb.

The RAM is for work, where I pretty often start paging with 16GB at the minute. I think the SSD will help alleviate that pain, but still, for the price, it seems worth it.

BloodBath wrote: »

The ssd is slightly cheaper on HWVS.

Thanks again! I really thought this was cheaper on Amazon, but you're right.

BloodBath wrote: »

The mouse I recommended is significantly better for only €4 more.

I'll defer to you on this. I only picked the FireGlider on aestethics because the Drakonia's not immediately available.

BloodBath wrote: »

Those headphones are fairly crap for the money.

I think you're probably right about that, but the low profile is a plus for work. I might buy the Plantronic gaming headset you recommended in the future, though.

BloodBath wrote: »

You have no cpu cooler to overclock the 4670k. I left the cpu cooler out of my own build as well though. Forgot it.

I'll add that now.

BloodBath wrote: »

No hdd? Games are 30gb+ these days. A 250gb ssd won't get you far. A single fast 1tb WD blue is a good gaming drive.

Storage isn't really an issue for me, as apart from a few games, I'll only be storing the OS and the work environments, which are only about 40 GB. If needs be, I have a few 2TB drives here at home I could use.

BloodBath wrote: »

With a budget of €1500 I made several upgrades to your order.

HWVS
Item|Price
Intel Core i5-4670K Box, LGA1150|€211.13
Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW|€38.84
MSI Z87-G45 Gaming, ATX, Sockel 1150|€134.93
8GB-Kit G-Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9|€59.21
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.69
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€146.98
Nanoxia Deep Silence One Dark Anthracite, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€94.07
Corsair Professional Series HX750 80PLUS Gold 750W|€119.07
Asus DRW-24F1ST Bulk Silent|€19.90
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Plantronics .Audio 450|
2 x Scythe Slip Stream 140 XT 140 mm Case fan, 1200rpm|€17.18
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1000.97Amazon
Item|Price
2 x 2 x Sapphire HD7950 3GB|£430.06
Logitech Keyboard|£7.65
Shipping|- 0 -
Total|£437.71

Working with your updated build, I get this:

From HWVS:
Item|Price
2 x Scythe Slip Stream 140 XT 140 mm Case fan, 1200rpm|€17.18
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
Corsair Professional Series HX750 80PLUS Gold 750W|€119.07
Nanoxia Deep Silence One Dark Anthracite, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€94.07
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€146.98
Intel Core i5-4670K Box, LGA1150|€211.13
Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW|€38.84
Pioneer DVD-XD01B|€25.90
ASRock Z87 Extreme6/AC, Sockel 1150, ATX|€196.34
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€900.20
From Amazon.co.uk:

Item|Price
2 x 2x Sapphire HD7950|£430.06
G.Skill 16GB|£97.59
Logitech Keyboard|£7.65
Plantronic Headset|£14.93
Shipping|- ? -
Total|£550.23

If you think the improved PSU is really worth the €40, then this looks like a runner. What do you think?

BloodBath

That looks good to me. It's up to you if the psu is worth it.

It's more energy efficient and modular meaning easier cable management and lower electricity costs. It has an extra 50w of overhead power as well meaning it should run a bit more efficiently under load than the be-quiet. It also has a massive 7 year warranty. It will pay for itself in that time frame.

smacl

BloodBath wrote: »

You don't need 16gb of ram for anything you have listed. Nothing will come close to using 8gb.

A good development setup and a good gaming setup can be two very different animals depending on the applications you're working on. If performance is an issue, CPU is more important than GPU unless your using either developing high end games, or working in something like CUDA. Disk thrashing can be an issue for compilation and database, and an extra 16GB ram disk significantly outperforms an SSD as a scratch disk. Memory mapped file I/O is also becoming much more widely used and can eat massive amounts of memory on some applications. I currently have 32GB of ram, ideally I'd go 64gb. Some development tasks, notably performance profiling, continuous integration and automated testing, can be very CPU and I/O intensive. For a great development set-up, I use multiple PCs, controlled via remote desktop. Some regular tasks still take many hours at a time. YMMV.

smacl

Kameron Eager Percussion wrote: »

What do you think?

Only thing I'd say from the list is spend a bit more on a decent keyboard. It's a mistake I made on a recent build that needs fixing, while it's expensive, I'm leaning toward the Corsair K95.

bladesofglory

smacl wrote: »

Only thing I'd say from the list is spend a bit more on a decent keyboard. It's a mistake I made on a recent build that needs fixing, while it's expensive, I'm leaning toward the Corsair K95.

I totally agree, I build a half decent setup and forgot about peripheral devices so using a 5quid keyboard and mouse, just doesn't do anything for the over-all build.

BloodBath

smacl wrote: »

A good development setup and a good gaming setup can be two very different animals depending on the applications you're working on. If performance is an issue, CPU is more important than GPU unless your using either developing high end games, or working in something like CUDA. Disk thrashing can be an issue for compilation and database, and an extra 16GB ram disk significantly outperforms an SSD as a scratch disk. Memory mapped file I/O is also becoming much more widely used and can eat massive amounts of memory on some applications. I currently have 32GB of ram, ideally I'd go 64gb. Some development tasks, notably performance profiling, continuous integration and automated testing, can be very CPU and I/O intensive. For a great development set-up, I use multiple PCs, controlled via remote desktop. Some regular tasks still take many hours at a time. YMMV.

I didn't think he'd need anywhere near that kind of ram for programming or web development. I guess it depends on what you're doing exactly.


As for the keyboard you could make some savings on your build to include a nice mechanical keyboard. I don't think you would have to spend that kind of money though. You can get good mechanicals on Amazon and ebay for €60-80.

smacl

BloodBath wrote: »

I didn't think he'd need anywhere near that kind of ram for programming or web development. I guess it depends on what you're doing exactly.

Depends entirely on what you're doing. The OP said he's hitting the page file already with 16gb so I certainly wouldn't go any lower than that. A lot of programming these days involves targeting and testing against multiple platforms, which many people do using virtual machines. Throw a development/testing rig up on each virtual machine and RAM gets gobbled up quickly enough. Personally, I work in the geospatial sector, and the rate at which data sizes are growing is staggering.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

smacl wrote: »

Only thing I'd say from the list is spend a bit more on a decent keyboard. It's a mistake I made on a recent build that needs fixing, while it's expensive, I'm leaning toward the Corsair K95.

You're dead right on that, smacl. I actually have a decent keyboard on my current machine that'll be making the move to the new build, so I have should have said that in the pro forma. The other keyboard is for the old machine which is getting a new home.

smacl wrote: »

A lot of programming these days involves targeting and testing against multiple platforms, which many people do using virtual machines. Throw a development/testing rig up on each virtual machine and RAM gets gobbled up quickly enough.

Bang on, it's VMs that eat up the memory.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Okay, I'm just about to pull the trigger, and I just have two last questions.

The first is with the 7950. With SL DVI-D and DL DVI-I, be able to run the QNIX monitors? The eBay page say it needs DL DVI-D and not DVI-I, but I'm almost certain a DL DVI-I port can always be used as a DL DVI-D port. Am I right there?

The second is that HWVS don't have either the case or PSU in stock, and I'd rather not play the waiting game. Does anyone have any reccomendations for suitable replacements? I'd rather not pay any more, to be honest.

Aesthetically, I like the look of this Thermaltake case and this Zalman case, but I'm not sure if either are suitable for my build.

BloodBath

Only DVI-D works with the cheaper Q-Nix monitors. You can get versions with HDMI and display port connections as well. You have the choice of matt or glossy finishes on the monitor as well. Gloss looks better and allows more natural light but is more reflective. If you are using it in a room that get's a lot of sunlight you should probably go for the matt.

These versions have the on screen menu as well which is in Korean but can be changed to English. They can't be overclocked to 120hz but the extra connectivity is more important imo. Especially when you are going to use 3 of them.

Glossy

Matt

Case wise you have to remember you're going to need really good airflow to feed those cards and the psu and a silenced case will help drown out the noise of 2 gpus and a cpu cooler. All of the Nanoxia cases are out of stock at the moment though. I would hold out to get one of them to be honest. HWVS are quick to restock normally. I doubt it will add much time to your order. There is nothing to rival the features, performance and space of the Nanoxia.

-edit-
Actually there is 1 alternative. The Fractal Design Define R4.

Likewise with the psu. I'd say just make the order anyway and they will reserve the parts for you. I doubt they will be any longer than a few days restocking them. They might be back in by the time your payment is received.

-edit2-

The HX850w is in stock here.