Am I a horrible person for getting disability benefit I dont exactly deserve?

LegacyUser

Hi all. This is something I've been wondering for quite some time now. But before I start, I just want to say that I am not a troll what so ever, please dont take me for one. Not sure how I can prove it but whatever. I wanted to post this on the State Benefits forum, but the mods over deleted my thread for some silly reason.



Anyway. When I was 12 I was sent to an educational psychologist. She diagnosed me with ADHD and put me on medication.

That was fine, until a few years later when I was about 15 my mother got a random letter in the door saying that I was now entitled to disability benefit every week, and she was entitled to carers allowance. on top of this, we both got free public transport passes.

My mother didnt give me access to the disability benefit until I finished my leaving cert. In the mean time she told me it was being saved for my college fee's (she lied).

Anyway, roll on another few years and when I was in my final months of 5th year, I was really struggling. I was suffering from major depression, failing at every subject, not getting along with people, and was just all around miserable.
So my school once again, sent me off to an educational psychologist.

In turn, I was diagnosed with depressive disorder, aspergers syndrome, dyspraxia, and discalculia. I was then sent to a psychologist who prescribed me a larger dose of medication.

Throughout the next year, until my leaving cert I drastically improved and started to function quite well. When I finished my leaving cert, my mother gave me full control of my disability benefit of ?190 a week, while she continued to get her carers allowance. (about ?90 a week).

Now, the thing is, I'm a perfectly well abled person. I can function physically and mentally just fine, I dont have problems with working, I dont have problems dealing with people, I dont have any noticeable learning difficulties (aside from having the mathematic ability of a child, according to my psych report).
I have friends and I get along with them just fine.

I went on to study 2 seperate full time FETAC courses, of which I performed very well in and got top marks. I also got a part time voluntary job, in which I deal with a lot of the general public. I'm pretty much, 99% a normal adult with no major/noticeable disabilities.

So then why am I getting disability benefit weekly? Why do I get free public transport? I used public transport everyday for my college studies, hundreds of busses and trains have been taken by myself and friends over the years (I'm allowed to bring 1 companion for free).

I've bought countless crap with my benefit money, computers, car insurance, holidays worth ?2000 to asia, concert tickets. I spend it just like a regular wage.

Why does my mother get her ?90 carers allowance weekly, she does not care for me at all! I still live at home, but she still makes me buy all my own clothes, toiletries, food, petrol etc. I give her ?30 a week too as a rent.

I'm 21 now, and I am thriving off this money! I've turned REAL jobs down in the past, because it was only a few days work a week in a shop, and after tax I would have gotten less than ?190 a week.

I saved up ?2000+ over the summer, and spent probably another ?800 on leisure and hobby items. Video games, clothes, etc.

I'm 21 years old. I know people in their 50's, caring for their elderly disabled parents, who cant even climb the stairs to go the toilet, who cant even cook for themselves, and they have been begging to get some sort of benefit to help them for YEARS! and havent gotten a single penny from the government!

and then theres me, I spend my time as a student learning in class, and then I have 4 months off in summer where I may only work once or twice a week for free, and I'm raking in the money.

Some points I should mention.
*I'm not a total scrounger, I try to work and contribute back to the community.
*I'm continously trying to further my education onto uni
*I do not qualify for any type of student grant what so ever.


tl;dr. I'm qualified for 190euro a week disability benefit and I'm not exactly disabled. Am I a horrible person for doing this? Can I get in trouble with the law even though the state said I am entitled to this?

Queen-Mise

DisBen22 wrote: »

tl;dr. I'm qualified for 190euro a week disability benefit and I'm not exactly disabled. Am I a horrible person for doing this? Can I get in trouble with the law even though the state said I am entitled to this?

No - you can't get in trouble with the law. Basically what you were diagnosed with, you still have. You are basically living life to a much better quality, that what was expected (or at least that would be my understanding).

Look at this one for an option:

Partial Capacity Benefit is a social welfare scheme which allows you to return to work (if you have reduced capacity to work) and continue to receive a payment from this Department. To qualify you need to be currently in receipt of either Illness Benefit (for a minimum of 6 months) or Invalidity Pension.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Illness-Disability-and-Caring.aspx

It is a half way mark between having to go on the dole/working and not being completely off Disability. Staying on that for a year or two would be good, just too make sure you are stable and is everything is staying as it is now.

EDIT: I would also talk to your doctor, ask them would they approve of you going out to work a 40 hour week... See what the professionals say. Don't just make the decision yourself.

I don't know could your mother still claim Carer's Allowance for you, probably unlikely, and she will be very unimpressed at losing it. The thing is, this situation is not about your mother's income; it is about you moving forward, going out working, and seeing more of the world.


On a personal note, get whatever education you want to get done now while you still have benefits. It is a lot harder to go back in the future.

Best of luck. And don't feel guilty about being on benefits, when they were given to you, you needed them. It may be 'wrong' doing it for much longer - but you answered that one yourself - you don't want to be living on 190 euros a week for the next 40 odd years.

LegacyUser

OP, what you have is pretty much what I have. Posting this unregged for personal reasons. At a young age, I was diagnosed with (though I only fully discovered it when I was a lot older, which was a breath of fresh air as I always assumed I was stupid with some stuff) dyspraxia and discalcula (as a result, as they border on another, which I really wished I had known during school, as Maths wasn't and still isn't my thing, making me feel so goddamn stupid constantly) and as an adult, I completed online tests (yes, yes I know, they're bad news) for aspergers and it registered me as relatively high on that scale. I went through a depression just as you did, with some pretty bad social anxiety thrown in -

So I'm posting this as someone who is very similar to you and, yes, I think what you're doing is wrong. You're taking advantage of a broken system, yes, but it doesn't make it right. You have no physical disabilities and you have no mental ones, that would prevent you from having a job/improving your life (apologies if you stated somewhere, it can be hard for me to read large blocks of text).

What I have has made me an even more dependent person, because it's forced me to tackle the issues that I have. It's also made me fiercely stubborn, as I rarely ever accept people's help - if I don't do it myself, then I don't feel an actual adult (I should state at this point that I'm in my late 20's).

I would never be able to do what you're doing, because I wouldn't be able to take something I didn't deserve and it is in my opinion, as someone that is very similar to you in many ways, that you don't deserve what you're getting, not really. Not when there's little or nothing from you preventing getting something better. Right now I'm on the Dole, but it's only because I can't find work right now. I've set myself a deadline, where if I can't get the job I want, I'll look for whatever I can get.

ShaShaBear

Would have to disagree with the above post, based on having a family member with the same issues. I have watched him go from 100% sociable with a part-job and his final year of his degree over the space of two and a half years, to thrashing my mother's house, trying to hang himself and becoming so socially reclusive that he stopped answering to his name and had to receive medication for his eyes from being in a dark room for 17 consecutive days.

It's wonderful that you have such a fantastic quality of life OP, and plenty of people with mental and physical disabilities have just as many great days. But the fact, unfortunately, still remains that your issues are being controlled, not cured, and at any point you could very much become unable for work or dealing with the public.

The state, and subsequent state benefits, are there to protect you and you should not feel ashamed that they deemed you eligible for financial assistance. Unless you get a full-time job that you can, in a full mental and social capacity, give your all then I would continue as you are and responsibly save and prepare for your future.

Emme

There are people who have been working for years who haven't got the money you have. The same people (myself included) can't even spare €200 for a weekend away let alone €2,000 for a holiday to Asia. Actually that's one of my ambitions when I win the lotto, to go on a €2,000 holiday to Asia!

I think you should go to your doctor, explain your situation and get reassessed. You might be entitled to some benefit but not as much. Do you pay for all your food at home? Do you give your mother rent money? If not she might regard the €90 carers allowance in rent money.

Sit down, add up all your benefits including the €90 your mother gets. How much taxable salary would you have to earn to get equivalent money? How many people in the country are earning that sort of money?

The government are proposing cutting the old age pension in the next budget. As it is there are old people having to choose between heat and food. In the meantime you are turning down jobs and going on €2,000 holidays to Asia. Something isn't right somewhere. You need to get your benefits reassessed.

Koptain Liverpool

Emme wrote: »

I think you should go to your doctor, explain your situation and get reassessed. You might be entitled to some benefit but not as much. Do you pay for all your food at home? Do you give your mother rent money? If not she might regard the €90 carers allowance in rent money.

You need to get your benefits reassessed.

This is nonsense.

You are doing nothing wrong OP. Ok so you may not actually need the benefit money to cover costs related to your disabilities but under the current system in place you are entitles to it. Morality doesn't come into it at all as some other posters would have you believe.

Put it like this - do you think people would go to the tax office and ask to be taxed more because they have plenty of money and feel that the tax they pay is too low. No of course they wouldn't!

Don't worry I'm sure you'll pay enough in tax and charges over the course of your lifetime so don't feel an ounce bad at the moment.

strandroad

It's morally wrong and legally fine. You and your mother are taking advantage of a broken system. Find a job and get reassessed or it will further corrupt you and your goals.

Esoteric_

You're entitled to it, so fair enough, you get it. It's great that you live so well on it. I earn more than that and I sure as hell don't live as well as you do. :pac:

What bugs me is that you've turned down jobs because your benefit money is more than what you'd earn. If you'd earn that little, you'd be entitled to keep a portion of your benefits, just so you're aware.

Until I read that you were turning down jobs, I would not have said that you were taking advantage of the system. As you have turned down jobs because it's easier for you to be on social welfare, yeah, I think you ARE taking advantage, 100%.

Galaxie

Like another poster said, morally wrong, legally fine.


Are you a horrible person for doing it? Well, that's a bit of a stretch - I don't agree with what you're doing, it's purely taking advantage but horrible is a little too far imo.

LegacyUser

Personally I think it's incredibly wrong. When you've finished education, you're earning a salary and paying your own way you'll probably agree when you realise how much money gets taken out of your hard earned paycheck every week to cover the costs of , amongst lots of legitimate things, people that are taking advantage of the system. Don't get me wrong, if you weren't capable of working I would say you're completely entitled to it but you've said yourself that you are. What your mother is doing is equally if not more wrong, there are lots of legitimate carers out there who are genuinely struggling just to cover the basic costs of a roof over their head, heating and food and IMO your mother is taking money directly out of their hands.

Stand on your own two feet, this country taxpayers do not owe you the lifestyle you have.

Big Bag of Chips

You've been assessed twice, and twice you have been diagnosed with something that entitles you to this benefit.

You are not "raking it in", but because you live at home you don't have expenses that others may have, you therefore have more disposable income than most. For someone with little or no expenses €190 a week is like the lottery. If you were paying rent, in your own place, not to your mother, and bills, and car payments and tax and insurance etc then you wouldn't be off on holidays to Asia

Are you capable of living independently? Could you move into your own place?

I don't know why you posted, or what you are looking for people to say to you. Medical professionals have deemed you to have a disability. It doesn't matter how you feel, you have a disability. You are entitled to your payment because of that and your mother is entitled to a small carer's allowance too.

You might think she does nothing for you (most teenagers/young adults living at home think they are wholly independent!) but she does. You might be quite independent and be very capable, but you have a disability which needs a degree of care.

What is your question? Do you want to stop receiving the benefit or are you just doing a quick survey as to whether people begrudge you the payment or not?

The Corinthian

I'm going to ignore the ethical or moral implications and advise you from a more pragmatic viewpoint. I'm also going to take you at your word that you can survive in society just like the majority of people (I suspect that if everyone was assessed in school, 70% of the country would be on benefits for one psychological issue or other), on your own.

DisBen22 wrote: »

I'm 21 now, and I am thriving off this money! I've turned REAL jobs down in the past, because it was only a few days work a week in a shop, and after tax I would have gotten less than ?190 a week.

And this is where, in the long run, your problem lies.

Social welfare, of any description, can become a poverty trap. Without it, you're essentially forced to take those few days work a week in a shop, or to apply for other jobs and slowly but surely you gain experience, your salary and responsibility increases and within a few years you're not only earning considerably more than €190 p.w. but in a position to live as an independent adult.

Because of the opportunity cost of giving up social welfare at the start (what you've described above), you run the danger or never really starting a career. It means you could well end up still at home with your mother in ten or twenty years time, following the path of least resistance, and still on €190, while everyone else you know is on a multiple of that. That could be the rest of your life.

So morality aside, it's a good idea for you to let go of the water wings and start swimming unaided. Choose what career path you want to take, use the system to get whatever qualifications for it (presuming you've not already done so) and then take the pain of being on less than €190 for the short term, if you have to; it pays off in the long term.

As others have said OP, it's morally wrong but legally right.

Ultimately it's your mother's actions that have led to this. I don't think you should have to claim responsibility for getting into this situation when in fact it was handled for you at the beginning by your mother. Now that you're older and you're seriously considering the consequences and moral implications of accepting the money (which you are definitely legally entitled to), you should begin to claim responsibility.

Don't feel bad for what's gone on so far, but you should seriously consider letting go of the money soon. Be it beginning to look for a job to replace it, or getting re-assessed, or simply just refusing it.

When you're no longer receiving the money, you will likely feel proud that you've done something good which most people would never consider. It will open your world up to new jobs, encourage you to get work experience, and give you some independence. By letting the money go you'll be increasing resources for other people who really need it.

The only thing I'd be very careful of is that you're still living at home, and your mother may not react well to you removing her carer's allowance without consulting her (of course, you'll probably know beforehand whether she'll take it well or not). I don't think you should be comfortable collecting that money, but you shouldn't risk putting yourself in a desperate situation either.

ash23

OP, it's in one way rather unfortunate that you were entitled to this as soon as you became an adult. Because now you are in the welfare trap, as is your mother.


I became a single parent and I was eligible for rent allowance and a weekly payment for myself and my child. I was reasonably well off, things weren't too much of a struggle. But I just knew (having seen it happen to others) that if I didn't try to get back to work that I would end up 15 years later, still on benefits with no job.

So I made the leap and initially I was barely making enough to cover the childcare. I then moved in with a partner which made things easier but when we broke up I sat down and calculated that I would be better off on social welfare.
But still, I stayed in work and in the last 5 years I've turned the corner and am now able to cover bills and rent and still have some left over for holidays and treats.

I'm not wealthy but I have great pride in what I am able to do. On one wage I can provide a good home and a good life for myself and my child. I am showing her a good work ethic and setting a good example for her. She knows things have to be earned.

Ironically enough I've been diagnosed with an illness which will probably curb my ability to work in the future and I might end up back on benefits. But at least I will know that it was out of my control and I have no choice but to be on them. And then I will have no shame or even think twice about it.


You know in your heart and soul that you should be trying to get a job and earn your own way.

teacherspet

The carers allowance is 204 euro a week not 90
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_allowance.html#l62fd2

Sarah Jane.

This is how the country is f****d. Even if you needed that money for illness, your mother shouldn't be just handing that money to you where you can buy ''countless crap'' with it when there are people on the streets that actually need that money or people with life threatning illnesses, it could be given to their families. My Dad has kidney failure and my Mam and I are working day and night to pay for his medication, we get no hand outs

mashedbanana

I didn't realise that you can get disability benefit for yourself, AND your mother can STILL get carers for you too. I thought it was one or the other, regardless of you living at home still. Did I pick it up wrong maybe?

Esoteric_

mashedbanana wrote: »

I didn't realise that you can get disability benefit for yourself, AND your mother can STILL get carers for you too. I thought it was one or the other, regardless of you living at home still. Did I pick it up wrong maybe?

It's possible to get both. My uncle is severely schizophrenic and he gets disability and his wife gets carer's allowance.

mashedbanana

Esoteric_ wrote: »

It's possible to get both. My uncle is severely schizophrenic and he gets disability and his wife gets carer's allowance.

oh right, I myself receive Carers allowance for a child. I just assumed it would be stopped for me when the child comes of age.

Anyway, Op. You have been assessed more then once, and no doubt will go through a few more checks in years to come. You have been diagnosed, so yes you are entitled to what you get. If your conscience is playing up on you, well there isn't a lot you can do. The money is to help get you too get through life with a disability, it's to cushion you along.

For some of us, it is to buy equipment, exercise stuff to make a child's life easier. It is also there is buy software to help from an educational point of view. THIS can be VERY expensive. No to mention the price of a laptop. The money is also there for buying special footwear, cos the typical shoe won't do. To take us too and from appointments that a bus service doesn't cover.

The money is there too, I believe, to take the sting out of caring for someone that will, all there life, have a disability, that no amount of money will take away. Of course with Carer's allowance also come domicillary allowance, €310 a month.

I have a brother that has an undeniable allergic reaction to anyone, even those entitled to social welfare, even those who may have worked all their lives providing. Of course his view is a very based view, and downright inconsiderate. He's view is that the word 'entitled' is taken way our of proportion, and there are people out there that sing the 'I'm entitled to it' song a bit too much.

i feel very very lucky to have it, and I hope that my son can get it for as long as he is qualifies.

freshpopcorn

Sarah Jane. wrote: »

This is how the country is f****d. Even if you needed that money for illness, your mother shouldn't be just handing that money to you where you can buy ''countless crap'' with it when there are people on the streets that actually need that money or people with life threatning illnesses, it could be given to their families. My Dad has kidney failure and my Mam and I are working day and night to pay for his medication, we get no hand outs

Have ye tried to apply for a medical card?
Medical cards can often be easier to get for people with serious medical conditions and those who need them simple because they don't have enough money.

LegacyUser

The OP is a perfectly functional person though. They can have a job if they want, but they aren't looking for jobs as it's less money than what they're already receiving. That's pretty much all of it.

This makes me really annoyed, because as said previously, I have exactly the same condition that the OP has. I wouldn't even call it a disability! It can be a struggle sometimes, but it doesn't stop me from excelling at college, trying to find a career, to get passed the barriers it puts in front of me (extreme social anxiety, mathematical problems, personal misgivings, and many others), because it's a challenge for you.

Genuinely don't see why the mother is receiving carer's allowance, when they're not doing any caring! OP, don't let what you have control you, you control it.

Sarah Jane.

Thank you for that suggestion freshpopcorn. I will look into it

Emme

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Have ye tried to apply for a medical card?
Medical cards can often be easier to get for people with serious medical conditions and those who need them simple because they don't have enough money.

There's a drugs payment scheme as well. If you spend over a certain amount per month on prescription drugs you're entitled to help.

You and your mum are probably too worn out caring for your dad and working to pay for his medication to seek what you're entitled to. Make sure you get what you can, as you can see others have no problem taking what money they're entitled to and using it as they see fit.