Sympathy Trolls - Please Read.

Mr E

It has come to our attention that a series of accounts were created in the last month to spin a sob story about a young girl who was dying (and subsequently died) of cancer. In addition to this, the story was perpetuated by email from members of the girl's family to sympathetic ears of genuinely compassionate people here who offered a shoulder to cry on.

We have evidence that this girl did not exist, and that the 2 accounts involved were posting in a coordinated fashion to make the story believable.

In a forum where the regulars are known for their camaraderie and compassion, this kind of trolling is the lowest of the low and will not be tolerated on this site.

We suspect that the person involved has since created new accounts on this site, but they have not crossed the line yet. Know now that we are watching you and will not tolerate this kind of emotional abuse to our site members.

We will alert The Ladies Lounge mods to these suspect accounts.

Lyaiera

I don't know if this is appropriate for this thread, but something similar happened to me elsewhere (sort of.) If the mods want to delete my post, that's cool.

I had been a long time member of a gaming forum. This forum is well known for low-level trolling. Lots of good people on there, but also quite a few people whose highest ambition is to achieve "lulz" (aka, be dicks.)

I talked quite a bit in a chat room they had and there were a few people I talked to regularly. This forum was one of the first places I told people I am trans, and e-transitioned on there (changed my name, changed my gender setting in my profile, etc.) I was talking to one person via IM and he decided to be honest with me. His line of thinking was as follows:

"I don't know if you're telling the truth. You could be trolling me, I can't tell. I'm going to accept what you're saying because if it's true, I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt you, you're already in a bad enough place. If you are trolling me, I don't care. I can't look bad for showing sympathy to a situation no-one should have to be in. If you're trolling you're the idiot. I won't look stupid, I've simply showed that I care about people."


I know spending sympathy, empathy and caring for someone has a cost. It takes energy and effort and has a toll. I would feel drained and angry about expending that energy, but I hope no-one feels bad for caring.

pharmaton

Lyaiera wrote: »

I know spending sympathy, empathy and caring for someone has a cost. It takes energy and effort and has a toll. I would feel drained and angry about expending that energy, but I hope no-one feels bad for caring.

I hope it's not too ot but for all those reasons I generally don't (can't) empathise in online environments, the cost has already been way too high but fwiw I have nothing but admiration for those who do.

Femme_Fatale

I know of a number of cases like this over the years, and it's just... how they think they won't get caught is beyond me...

Maybe it isn't always just to have a laugh at people, maybe there are times when it's a warped cry for help by people with serious issues... but there's no excuse.

Lyaiera

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Maybe it isn't always just to have a laugh at people, maybe there are times when it's a warped cry for help by people with serious issues... but there's no excuse.

I think there's very few actions that have genuine excuses. That doesn't mean there isn't a reason. If you excuse something you ignore the reason, and I think that's a problem. Reasons for things should always be understood and addressed if problematic. That takes someone with a willingness to care and this person's/these people's actions could make it hard for people to care in the future. And that's ****ing atrocious.

seosamh1980

I knew there was something fishy about those posts. I figured that sort of...incident?...would nearly have made the news, or a newspaper, or something. I saw a regular poster mention that had known the girls so for a while I thought "hmm, maybe I'm wrong", only to see that poster had known them through email contact, I figured then it was fake. Pretty weird and pathetic, people get kicks in funny ways. As mentioned by another poster this is why I am slow to empathise online, unless I "know" the person for a while and it's more likely to be true.

Lia_lia

Why do people do this? I don't understand.


:mad:

leahyl

I only saw a few of those posts but I thought there was something fishy about them and I never responded. It just didn't seem right, and I remember actually thinking "this person is taking the piss" but feeling awful that I was thinking that at the same time.

Mr E

Both of the accounts involved were closed overnight (an impressive feat from beyond the grave). That should be the end of it.

Das Kitty

I did pause before responding to them on thread. In the end I weighed up what the risk was to me if they weren't genuine, and it was none (I don't count appearing foolish as a risk, it's more of a way of life ). The scale fell heavier on the side of the benefit it might have to someone genuinely in need.

And sometimes, like this case, if it's not genuine, maybe there's someone else who might benefit from it. Or even the troll themselves, depending on the reason they're doing it.

Faith

I honestly can't believe anyone would go to the effort to do that.

PhysiologyRocks

I never came across these threads, but if someone goes to all that effort to do that kind of thing, they really aren't all that likely to be in a good place. I hope they've got good support around/are getting the help they need.

metaoblivia

I didn't see the threads, but I knew a girl who did this on another website. She didn't just fool people online, but people in real life too, including her children (whom she didn't have custody of, thank goodness). She went as far as to shave her head, steal photos from actual cancer patients and photoshop herself into them. She would even drive to the hospital, sit in her car for hours, and drive back home. About a year after the people in my group found out about the fraud, a website devoted to outing hoaxers like this caught on to her from other websites where she tried to pull the same thing. Some of the people they out do it for money - they set up donation sites, etc.. But a lot just do it for the attention. It's almost its own sickness in a way.

cantdecide

metaoblivia wrote: »

It's almost its own sickness in a way.

It absolutely is. I once knew someone who was responsible for some of this type of behaviour. IMO, it became a very clear cry for help. Years later they sought the help they needed to deal with the underlying issues before they did something that might have caused real harm.

I'm sure the OP of these threads knows what they did was wrong and that they should consider the reasons for starting them are symptomatic of something of much greater importance that needs dealing with.

wallycharlo

It can be very difficult to tell what's authentic from what is not, especially if the perpetrators are careful and cute.

I've often gotten the impression that quite a few threads at certain places on Boards are written by spoofers. It can next to impossible to tell of course, at least at a user level.

WesternNight

In one way I'm delighted that they weren't real, because it means that no-one actually died. It's just a shame that someone felt they had to do that to get sympathy. We're pretty nice really, and would probably have been just as kind had they been themselves.

username123

metaoblivia wrote: »

It's almost its own sickness in a way.

Well it is. Its a mental health issue. That someone would feel the need to troll for sympathy and create an elaborate story (I didnt see the thread in question), but to continue with emails to people etc... there is something wrong with a person to do this. They know that they are eliciting sympathy from real individuals, its hard for me to imagine what kind of thrill they get out of it or what inner need it fulfills, but I would strongly advise someone who did this to get professional help. Speak to a GP, explain that you are making up Walter Mitty type fantasies with the intention of duping real people and eliciting sympathy from them.

pharmaton

username123 wrote: »

Well it is. Its a mental health issue. That someone would feel the need to troll for sympathy and create an elaborate story (I didnt see the thread in question), but to continue with emails to people etc... there is something wrong with a person to do this. They know that they are eliciting sympathy from real individuals, its hard for me to imagine what kind of thrill they get out of it or what inner need it fulfills, but I would strongly advise someone who did this to get professional help. Speak to a GP, explain that you are making up Walter Mitty type fantasies with the intention of duping real people and eliciting sympathy from them.

some people just see the internet as a vehicle for messing with other people, I doubt if they are reading this that they are even considering that they have issues that need to be resolved, they're most likely just having a good ol laugh about it and thinking what a bunch of losers there are online.

username123

pharmaton wrote: »

some people just see the internet as a vehicle for messing with other people, I doubt if they are reading this that they are even considering that they have issues that need to be resolved, they're most likely just having a good ol laugh about it and thinking what a bunch of losers there are online.

And would you not agree that such thoughts would indicate something wrong in the mental health department? Or serious immaturity. But I'm inclined to lean towards the former because of the sustained and complex nature of the story.

To be blunt, if I make up a story to elicit sympathy and then laugh at those who sympathise, I am the one with the problem.

WesternNight

username123 wrote: »

And would you not agree that such thoughts would indicate something wrong in the mental health department? Or serious immaturity. But I'm inclined to lean towards the former because of the sustained and complex nature of the story.

To be blunt, if I make up a story to elicit sympathy and then laugh at those who sympathise, I am the one with the problem.

We have no idea what the reasons were in this case. No idea. It's probably unhelpful to try to diagnose mental disorders on the basis of one action we know very little about...

pharmaton

username123 wrote: »

And would you not agree that such thoughts would indicate something wrong in the mental health department? Or serious immaturity. But I'm inclined to lean towards the former because of the sustained and complex nature of the story.

To be blunt, if I make up a story to elicit sympathy and then laugh at those who sympathise, I am the one with the problem.

I'd be thinking serious immaturity tbf, I didn't see the story though, seems difficult to believe otherwise.

username123

WesternNight wrote: »

We have no idea what the reasons were in this case. No idea. It's probably unhelpful to try to diagnose mental disorders on the basis of one action we know very little about...

Well generally speaking, people who make up stuff to feed off the honest responses of others have, IMO, mental health issues. It's not the action of a mentally healthy person.

pharmaton

username123 wrote: »

Well generally speaking, people who make up stuff to feed off the honest responses of others have, IMO, mental health issues. It's not the action of a mentally healthy person.

There's enough stigma wrt mental health issues as is, confusing mental illness with somebody being a jerk online only adds to it tbh.

username123

pharmaton wrote: »

There's enough stigma wrt mental health issues as is, confusing mental illness with somebody being a jerk online only adds to it tbh.

I assure you I am intimately familiar with mental health issues and I am not confusing anything. It is my opinion that someone who behaves this way has mental health issues. It is yours that they are a jerk. Please do not try to discredit my opinion because it differs from yours. We are all entitled to our opinions. I appear to be touching a nerve so I will leave my contribution to this thread here.

pharmaton

username123 wrote: »

I assure you I am intimately familiar with mental health issues and I am not confusing anything. It is my opinion that someone who behaves this way has mental health issues. It is yours that they are a jerk. Please do not try to discredit my opinion because it differs from yours. We are all entitled to our opinions. I appear to be touching a nerve so I will leave my contribution to this thread here.

I don't know if it should even be relevant but it is but only because I see that if it was the case that the poster had mental health issues then perhaps you would have been somewhat more sympathetic whereas it appears that you only mentioned it as a way to discredit them. Mental illness does not equate to liars and jerks, and rather than attempting to "discredit" you (god save me from posting the rolleyes emoticon) I just think thats an fair point to make given the context.

Hrududu

I've come across stuff like this before on other forums. It's called Münchausen by Internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_by_Internet

What surprises me is that there are quite a few of them out there.

I didn't see the posts, I don't think you can say one way or another if the person was just an eejit or has more serious issues, understanding of pro social behaviour and the Internet isn't fully understood yet. The Internet is not completely anonymous.

wallycharlo

Someone with metal health issues? Quite possibly.

Could just as easily be a couple of sadistic young pups acting the maggot and getting a laugh at the expense of people who think that they are genuine.

Some if the posts which appear over on PI look very suspect from time to time.

Neyite

wallycharlo wrote: »

Someone with metal health issues? Quite possibly.

Could just as easily be a couple of sadistic young pups acting the maggot and getting a laugh at the expense of people who think that they are genuine.

Some if the posts which appear over on PI look very suspect from time to time.

PI is strictly moderated in accordance with a very specific charter, with a zero tolerance for muppetry. However, we really appreciate reported posts, and mods will keep an eye on a thread that needs close attention, discussing with C-mods or Admins as necessary. If someone was trolling PI, or vunerable posters there, it would be swiftly acted on.

Das Kitty

Neyite wrote: »

PI is strictly moderated in accordance with a very specific charter, with a zero tolerance for muppetry. However, we really appreciate reported posts, and mods will keep an eye on a thread that needs close attention, discussing with C-mods or Admins as necessary. If someone was trolling PI, or vunerable posters there, it would be swiftly acted on.

Anyway, even if the OPs are pulling the pee, there could be someone reading who might benefit from the advice.

I offered some advice on there a (good) few years ago and about 3 months later I got a PM from another user who hadn't been involved in the thread to tell me how much what I had said helped them. It's still one of the nicest things I've ever got from someone.

I got a lovely mail from someone who was feeling a little dispirited at avalanche of posters who disagreed with their opinion, which happened to go against the general consensus, anyway they thanked me for my support and said how much it meant to them. I like the fact that boards is well moderated.

wallycharlo

Neyite wrote: »

PI is strictly moderated in accordance with a very specific charter, with a zero tolerance for muppetry. However, we really appreciate reported posts, and mods will keep an eye on a thread that needs close attention, discussing with C-mods or Admins as necessary. If someone was trolling PI, or vunerable posters there, it would be swiftly acted on.

No issue with the moderation whatsever, Neyite, and I agree with you.

The problem as I see it is that a good troller may be very difficult to ID in the first place.

I think Das Kitty makes a very good point though i.e. even if the OP may not be completely genuine, it may end up being pretty much academic anyway, as the thread which develops can have much value to it in any case, both to those who may happen upon it, and also to those who respond and take part in the discussion which develops.

Lyaiera

wallycharlo wrote: »

No issue with the moderation whatsever, Neyite, and I agree with you.

The problem as I see it is that a good troller may be very difficult to ID in the first place.

I think Das Kitty makes a very good point though i.e. even if the OP may not be completely genuine, it may end up being pretty much academic anyway, as the thread which develops can have much value to it in any case, both to those who may happen upon it, and also to those who respond and take part in the discussion which develops.

I've always thought the best response to any attempt at trolling is to take the underlying issue seriously and end up having a mature, contemplative discussion about it.

The Black Oil

I've seen this on other forums in a mod capacity. In my experience, with this subgroup of people, there's very little that they won't lie about - abuse, bereavement, extent of injuries, etc. I don't think it's always mental health related, or attention seeking, but it must meet some sort of need. Sad and frustrating. Glad to hear it was picked up.

Neyite

I've encountered compulsive liars before - both in real life and here on boards - twice with two posters who I considered close friends and had confided some very personal things to them, and I felt utterly betrayed when I discovered that they had lied extensively. Both have closed their accounts since, but that doesn't mean that they aren't still around here.

Both of them lost out in my opinion. I, and the others in our group who were lied to are amazing people to have as friends. And they threw it away.

The other walter mitty poster is still around. I don't interact with her at all. She came onto the pregnancy forum pretending she was pregnant. And other stuff. All lies.

The real life one was a work colleague. And a laughing stock in the office. Her tales were outrageous - fake qualifications, fake jobs, fake boyfriends/fiance's, fake address, and routinely faked deaths in her loved ones to get time off work. Pathetic really.

Honey-ec

Neyite wrote: »

Her tales were outrageous - fake qualifications, fake jobs, fake boyfriends/fiance's, fake address, and routinely faked deaths in her loved ones to get time off work. Pathetic really.

In my experience, people who are pathological liars like this actually believe all the crap they spout themselves, and genuinely can't understand why people don't take them seriously.

The issue of distance and empathy is fascinating it seems the relative anonymity of the internet encourages some people to behave in a way they would not in real life, for example have you ever come across some of the vile things said about welfare recipients on various boards forums, I doubt the poster would ever say the same to a real live welfare recipient standing in front of them, yet they feel they can say it on boards. its the same with a whole host of issues.

The only one I have seen and it is only vaguely related to the issue here, was a man with issues about women, the fascinating thing was how he went to great lengths in the beginning to try and make him self sound reasonable.

Quality

Wasn't there some thing in the parentig thread about someone robbing a picture of a baby and posting in another site saying they had had a baby and it died and putting the robbed picture up?

What sort of sick **** does that?

I had had a baby around that time and had put up a picture. It's just Sick to even think about

FouxDaFaFa

I'm not familiar with the thread being discussed but I'm sorry if it distressed anyone.

Some people have a need to gain sympathy from others because it validates an unhappiness they are feeling, a dissatisfaction with their real lives. You may feel foolish for believing a lie, but like it's been said above, maybe believing and responding to that lie will help others.

x Purple Pawprints x

If it's the 2 users I am thinking of then I was fooled big time and PMed them both.

CathyMoran

x Purple Pawprints x wrote: »

If it's the 2 users I am thinking of then I was fooled big time and PMed them both.

I was the same, has made me more cautious to help others unfortunatly:(

x Purple Pawprints x

CathyMoran wrote: »

I was the same, has made me more cautious to help others unfortunatly:(

It's definitely made me think. I knew there were people who messed about and that online but I never thought anyone would go to such lengths to fool people like that.

WesternNight

CathyMoran wrote: »

I was the same, has made me more cautious to help others unfortunatly:(

Being kind to someone is a reflection on the kind of person you are, nothing to do with the person you're being kind to. So whether or not they're genuine, it doesn't (and shouldn't) change *you*. Kindness is never wasted, ever. No matter who the recipient is.

Faith

Neyite wrote: »

I've encountered compulsive liars before - both in real life and here on boards - twice with two posters who I considered close friends and had confided some very personal things to them, and I felt utterly betrayed when I discovered that they had lied extensively. Both have closed their accounts since, but that doesn't mean that they aren't still around here.

Both of them lost out in my opinion. I, and the others in our group who were lied to are amazing people to have as friends. And they threw it away.

The other walter mitty poster is still around. I don't interact with her at all. She came onto the pregnancy forum pretending she was pregnant. And other stuff. All lies.

The real life one was a work colleague. And a laughing stock in the office. Her tales were outrageous - fake qualifications, fake jobs, fake boyfriends/fiance's, fake address, and routinely faked deaths in her loved ones to get time off work. Pathetic really.

Unfortunately, I too have been sucked in by compulsive liars on boards. I unquestioningly believed all the stories they told me, all the awful things they were going through, and I was really hurt when it turned out they were just lying. I don't even understand their motivations.

Since then, I find it a LOT easier to spot lies. Forums like boards attract specific types of personalities, and I could identify several more posters off the top of my head whose posts I skip because I just don't believe them about anything. They might not be lying, exactly, but they're definitely exaggerating to a great degree for sympathy and I hate seeing others sucked in by it .

To anyone who does/did get sucked in, Western Night has hit the nail on the head .

Wooder79

I would say that it was unbelievable, but unfortunately, I know some people in real life who are pathological liars and will do literally anything to get attention. Going to extremely outrageous lengths to get people to feed their endless need to elicit reaction from people. Positive or negative attention, doesn't matter to them, once they have a constant stream of it.

Whatever the motivation of the people who did this, you really just have to feel sorry for them because it's extremely pathetic. And like a few people said, nobody should feel foolish for responding like a normal human being to behaviour which turned out to be abnormal. And another very valid point that was made a few times is the fact that the discussion, however it started, may have been helpful to others and is therefore not meaningless.

Esoteric_

Like so many others have said, the best way to treat potential sympathy trolls is with sympathy. Yes, it gives them the validation they want, which is not a nice thing to do, but it could potentially be helpful for other posters on boards.

If you've PMd them, fair play to you tbh. It just shows that you're a good, kind, caring person.

Somebody being a compulsive liar is no reflection on the empathetic person, it's a bad reflection on the liar, nobody else.

Maybe it is because I did not grow up with the interned, but do people really consider people they have never met except virtually to be friends? I would have to meet someone personally before I would consider them a friends.

Neyite

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe it is because I did not grow up with the interned, but do people really consider people they have never met except virtually to be friends? I would have to meet someone personally before I would consider them a friends.

Absolutely. My Internet friends and I have connected on Facebook and text each other regularly. I finally met them after about a year and by then we were very close. There is even still several that I've still to meet in the flesh and we are getting that oppertuinity in a couple of weeks, several years after we "met" here.
I didn't grow up with the Internet either, so I don't know if its that. While I encountered 2 liars, there are 18 of us left, who are closer than ever. Not bad odds.

meeeeh

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe it is because I did not grow up with the interned, but do people really consider people they have never met except virtually to be friends? I would have to meet someone personally before I would consider them a friends.

I met my partner over internet and even he wasn't considered proper friend until we met. I also met a few people who I really liked online and thought they were really annoying in person, some I really liked and some I didn't overly like online that I thought were great.

I like/dislike different people online but there is no proper connection until and if I meet them in person. My first reaction to those trolls was, "ah, good, so nobody died". I have no interest why somebody would bother doing that neither I have any pity for the individual(s) who did it. It's pretty pathetic that somebody would waste so much time on a con that doesn't even make money.