Isinbayeva speaks out against homosexuality

TRR

Pretty disappointed with. If I had of known her views before the pole vault final I would not have been cheering the homophobic so and so

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23717242

pconn062

Pretty disgusting alright, was rooting for her the other night and all, regret that now. That's Russia off the travel list and Isinbaeva off the support list, hope she catches some serious shit for this and loses all her sponsorship.

Challo

Thanks for posting. I'm really disappointed in this also although when I reading her bio again yesterday (only Wiki mind you), I thought it odd that she is so involed in the Russian Army - Super Lieut. apparently.

shels4ever

Just watched the interview firstly I think it's a terrible question for some to have to answer in this day and age.

She didn't seem very comfortable with it and I wonder are they her real views or is there something more on the background.
Guess my dream of inviting her for a 3 way won't go down well.

Disgusting, but no doubt she'll get an order of the Red Sickle and a dacha from the Motherland and presume that was her motivation.

Big Logger

Women of Russia aren't even seen as equals to men so maybe that should be her first line of protest before anyone even considers that she support homosexuality.
Who knows her real opinions, she has to go back as a public figure and live in the country. She doesn't have much choice really.

Dilbert75

Sadly that's probably the truth of it - more than likely she's just a pawn.

woodchopper

Always wondered why Isinbayeva loved the Poll Vault!

average_runner

In fairness what did people expect her to say?

Come out against her country and god knows what will happen to her family?

Its easy for us to say stand up etc but we don't live in a country where the powers can hurt you, we just live in a country where the powers just screw u no matter what:eek:

robinph

Big Logger wrote: »

Women of Russia aren't even seen as equals to men so maybe that should be her first line of protest before anyone even considers that she support homosexuality.
Who knows her real opinions, she has to go back as a public figure and live in the country. She doesn't have much choice really.

No she doesn't have to go back and live in Russia. She had loads of choices.

This was an incredibly bad choice of statement to make though if she is looking to continue her career internationally with appearance fees and sponsorship deals. Not that that source will disappear completely, but she's not going to be used as the "face" of any brand or event outside of Russia now.

FrClintPower

In fairness, if she had come out against the Russian regime she would have been nothing short of a hero, so not doing that doesn't necessarily make her a villain. But she could have tried to evade the question or say "we shouldn't mix sport and politics" or something. Instead she referred to the "problem" of homosexuality and how Russians don't want that "problem" in Russia, how they've never had that "problem" before. That's some bigoted stuff, essentially she's shown herself to be a bit of a scumbag.

And I don't buy this argument that we have to wait until women are treated equally in Russia before she can start speaking against the repression of homosexuals, human rights are human rights and should be advanced on all fronts.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

No she doesn't have to go back and live in Russia. She had loads of choices.

This was an incredibly bad choice of statement to make though if she is looking to continue her career internationally with appearance fees and sponsorship deals. Not that that source will disappear completely, but she's not going to be used as the "face" of any brand or event outside of Russia now.

So she is going to move all relations of her family out of Russia too?

She knows she be better looked after there than outside Russia

robinph

average_runner wrote: »

So she is going to move all relations of her family out of Russia too?

She knows she be better looked after there than outside Russia

Why would she need to move an extended family out of Russia?

Were they being abused due to her NOT saying anything and keeping her mouth shut until now?

PaulieC

It's a fair hotbed of liberalism in here. Until it comes to freedom of speech and having a contrary opinion apparently. So she disapproves of homosexuality, so what ? In case you all forgot, homosexuality was illegal in this country until quite recently and gay marriages are just about getting over the line. Just because we're all enlightened and all, doesn't mean we have to get all high and mighty with those who may be less so.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

Why would she need to move an extended family out of Russia?

Were they being abused due to her NOT saying anything and keeping her mouth shut until now?

I would think that if she came out against or say nothing, her family would be at risk.

pconn062

PaulieC wrote: »

It's a fair hotbed of liberalism in here. Until it comes to freedom of speech and having a contrary opinion apparently. So she disapproves of homosexuality, so what ? In case you all forgot, homosexuality was illegal in this country until quite recently and gay marriages are just about getting over the line. Just because we're all enlightened and all, doesn't mean we have to get all high and mighty with those who may be less so.

So what?? She doesn't "disapprove" of homosexuality as you elegantly put it, it's actually known as incitement of hatred. Gay and lesbian people are being assaulted, murdered and sent to jail for homosexuality in Russia (which I hope you are aware, isn't something people can choose) and she is simply adding fuel to their fire. People will think "one of our biggest sportstars agrees with this bigorty, even more reason to alienate and harass these people". And Russia was more tolerant of homosexuality in the past, these gay laws were only introduced recently, mainly driven by the increased power of the Orthodox Church in lawmaking in Russia and an increase in Neo-naxi activity. So you're argument about Ireland's homosexuality laws is irrelevant, at least Ireland is making progress, Russia is going backwards.

robinph

PaulieC wrote: »

It's a fair hotbed of liberalism in here. Until it comes to freedom of speech and having a contrary opinion apparently. So she disapproves of homosexuality, so what ? In case you all forgot, homosexuality was illegal in this country until quite recently and gay marriages are just about getting over the line. Just because we're all enlightened and all, doesn't mean we have to get all high and mighty with those who may be less so.

It is OK to disapprove of something, everyone is entitled to have those opinions.

What is not OK is to support a legal system that actively try's to stamp out the people whose private life you happen to disapprove of. Having a different opinion is fine, to try and enforce yours onto someone else through law and police beatings is not.

PaulieC

PaulieC wrote: »

So she disapproves of homosexuality, so what ?

One could use the exact same logic to dismiss sectarian or racist comments.

I think homophobic comments are objectionable. She is entitled to have them - we can't police thoughts - not sure she is entitled to express them, and she is certainly not entitled to demand that they be respected.

Challo

I see now she's saying that she was "misunderstood". Ah yeah.

PaulieC

It seems that us westerners are entitled to express our opinion, but not those backward commies. Fair enough, do as we say, not as we do.
By the way, I don't agree with her, but I really hate the way the 'fair minded' people are jumping on the condemnation bandwagon. Folks love a witchhunt.

PaulieC

PaulieC wrote: »

It seems that us westerners are entitled to express our opinion, but not those backward commies. Fair enough, do as we say, not as we do.

I can't remember an athlete amongst "us westerners" expressing homophobic comments and receiving support for that stance.

You can of course give examples to support your point.

pconn062

PaulieC wrote: »

It seems that us westerners are entitled to express our opinion, but not those backward commies. Fair enough, do as we say, not as we do.
By the way, I don't agree with her, but I really hate the way the 'fair minded' people are jumping on the condemnation bandwagon. Folks love a witchhunt.

That has to be the worst argument I've heard so far. You talk about westerners, can you imagine the shit storm that would arise if the "western" equivalent of Isinbayeva came out with comments like that?? Imagine Jessica Ennis or Sonia O' Sullivan or Mo Farah came out with comments like that, now that would be a shit storm.

And if you have an issue with people condemning her comments, then you support her more than you think, if no one said anything then comments like this become acceptable and that can't be allowed to happen in the civilized world. There's no bandwagon, just people supporting the rights of other to live their lives as they wish without having to live in fear.

PaulieC

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't remember an athlete amongst "us westerners" expressing homophobic comments and receiving support for that stance.

You can of course give examples to support your point.

Twist my word why don't ya. I said that we are allowed to express our opinion. You are allowed express your opinion. But you said "She is entitled to have them - we can't police thoughts - not sure she is entitled to express them". So you are saying that you are allowed express an opinion, but you disagree with her being allowed to express her opinion because you don't agree with what she is saying. You can't have it both ways.

@pconn062 context is all important here. You wouldn't have the likes of Jessica Ennis or Sonia expressing those opinions as they are not from the same background as the Russian athlete. Westerners are more 'enlightened' generally so would be unlikely to have such an opinion.
And as for you live and let live statement, why does that apply to you and not her ? Are you not trying to condemn her for voicing her opinion, no matter how wrong or distasteful it is ? Surely that's just an example of Live and let live (as long as you are of the same opinion as me).

robinph

PaulieC wrote: »

It seems that us westerners are entitled to express our opinion, but not those backward commies. Fair enough, do as we say, not as we do.
By the way, I don't agree with her, but I really hate the way the 'fair minded' people are jumping on the condemnation bandwagon. Folks love a witchhunt.

I don't believe in the spaghetti monster = opinion.

Anyone who believes in the spaghetti monster should be beaten up whilst the police stand by and then arrested and charged = not an opinion. That is hatred.

drquirky

PaulieC wrote: »

that's just an example of Live and let live (as long as you are of the same opinion as me).

"Live and let live" implies an unspoken agreement where both sides of an argument agree to not curtail the other's rights. Clearly the Russian government isn't participating in this type of civility. Pretty funny/ironic to see you arguing for a "live and let live" approach when one group (homosexuals in Russia) are being severely repressed and aren't being allowed to "live" in the way they wish. Perhaps Putin could learn something from your logic.

PaulieC

PaulieC wrote: »

Twist my word why don't ya.

Ummmmm, I quoted your post directly.

PaulieC wrote: »

I said that we are allowed to express our opinion. You are allowed express your opinion.

That's simply not correct. Not correct at all.

If my opinion is racist, sectarian, homophobic etc. then I will not be entitled to express it without sanction or condemnation. Your point is completely confused, in fact "us westerners" would be the people least likely to get away with expressing such opinions.

Again though, as you avoided my question I'll raise it again. If you insist that "us westerners" would get away with it, please cite examples.

opus

Some backtracking going now I see - Isinbayeva says she may have been 'misunderstood'
It was good that Nick Symmonds expressed an opposite view I thought.

robinph wrote: »

I don't believe in the spaghetti monster = opinion.

Anyone who believes in the spaghetti monster should be beaten up whilst the police stand by and then arrested and charged = not an opinion. That is hatred.

Can't believe you brought the FSM into this, He who blesses us all with his noodly appendage

pconn062

PaulieC wrote: »

@pconn062 context is all important here. You wouldn't have the likes of Jessica Ennis or Sonia expressing those opinions as they are not from the same background as the Russian athlete. Westerners are more 'enlightened' generally so would be unlikely to have such an opinion.
And as for you live and let live statement, why does that apply to you and not her ? Are you not trying to condemn her for voicing her opinion, no matter how wrong or distasteful it is ? Surely that's just an example of Live and let live (as long as you are of the same opinion as me).

I genuinely don't think you get it. People are free to express their opinions of course, but people shouldn't opinions that incite hatred against a particular group, hence the reason we have terms such as racism, homophobia, sexism etc. Can you imagine if her comments were in relation to black people, would you still support her right to express her opinion? I don't even know why we are discussing this, I thought it was a well known fact that you can't just say what you like, particularly if you are in the public eye.

And I don't but the "Russian background" thing. She is not some poor Russian who has been living in a small town in backwards Russia, being oppressed her whole life. She is an international athlete who competes all around the world, probably against homosexual people. She can't use that as an excuse.

robinph

opus wrote: »

Can't believe you brought the FSM into this, He who blesses us all with his noodly appendage

I was trying to think of some example to use that wouldn't offend anyone other than the odd 18th century pirate. I of course believe in his noodly appendage.

PaulieC

Deleted User wrote: »

Again though, as you avoided my question I'll raise it again. If you insist that "us westerners" would get away with it, please cite examples.

I did not avoid your question. I never mentioned anywhere that us westerners would get away with voicing an anti-gay opinion. I did say that "It seems that us westerners are entitled to express our opinion". That was a reference to everyone here expressing their opinion that she was wrong while condemning her for voicing her opinion and beliefs.
You can't have it both ways. Either you can voice you opinion or you can't. You can't condemn someone for voicing their opinion just because you believe it to be wrong or contrary to your own opinion.

Anyway, I'm clearly onto a losing argument here and this has probably gone way off-topic, given the forum that we're in. I was just trying to play devil's advocate and try to get people to maybe think a little bit about considering other people values and opinions before immediately getting the pitchforks out. I hope I didn't offend anyone...

TFBubendorfer

<mod>Maybe it's over-modding, but I think it's only a matter of time before this turns really ugly, and I'd rather close this thread before I have to deal with that.</mod>