Civil Ceremony, how does it differ?

Leanneire1

Hello all, I'm new to Boards and am hoping to find a bit of help here.. I'm planning my wedding for spring of next year and am a bit lost. We will be having a civil ceremony rather than a church wedding but unfortunately neither of us have ever been to a civil ceremony!

What I'm really looking to find out are the differences and similarities between a civil ceremony and a church wedding, with regard to people involved, their roles, the ceremony itself and anything at all that you think would be important information.

Thank you to anyone who reads this thread and goo luck to all planning their own weddings

lazygal

A civil ceremony is a lot shorter than most church services. For example, you won't have a Catholic mass service with religious readings. You're not allowed to have any reference to religion in the music, readings or vows in a civil ceremony, but it can be very personal. You could have a few readings and vows, the celebrant will do the 'legal' vow part but this is still quite meaningful. If you want to marry outside the registry office the venue will have to be approved by the HSE and there'll be extra costs for time and travel.

For example, you might have the traditional bridal procession, celebrant welcomes everyone, have two or three readings, vows, some other words from the celebrant, perhaps a closing reading or words, interspersed with music. If you have a look at videographers websites you'll have sample ceremonies to see what they look like. Its up to you guys how short/long/personal you want it to be.

evilmonkee

As lazygal has said, civil ceremonies do not allow religious content.
As well as this the officiant will request that you provide them in advance with a copy of the readings / music you intend to use.
This is just to check that the content is non-religious and in keeping with the "ideals" of the ceremony (read: you cant play "baby got back" as part of the ceremony )

Civil ceremonies can be a short 5 minute affair, only including the legal part or can include other items such as readings, lighting candles etc.

If you want to involve people in your wedding (bridesmaid, groomsman, flower girl, pageboy etc.) that is perfectly acceptable and processions can be done in the same manner as a church ceremony, one thing to consider for this is the venue. Is there space to create an aisle to walk down?

Another difference is your seating plan, this does not have to be split down the centre (as a church is) and you have control over standing/sitting format of the ceremony.

Happy planning!

Ms2011

I'm having a civil ceremony myself in Spring.
The biggest advantage I had was that I could have my reception in the same hotel I was having my ceremony which meant there was no traveling to different locations saving on having to hire cars & also we are not at the mercy of the weather as once we are inside we don't have to go anywhere else.
What I love about the civil ceremony is how personal you can make it. I'm walking down the aisle to 'our' song being played on the guitar by my newphew.
My readings are tailored to me & my OH, some funny, others soppy but all relavent to us.
I've sat through some church weddings that just seemed to go on & on whereas the civil ceremonies are alot quicker.
Also as mentioned there are no religious reverences allowed in a civil ceremony.

pwurple

It depends on who is performing the ceremony, where the ceremony is taking place, and what you communicate to them.

If it is the civil registrar, then there are no religious references allowed,and it has to be indoors. Those are pretty much the only rules. There may be more rules associated with your venue, whether it is the local registrar office, or somewhere else. Seating, length of ceremony, that kind of thing.

If it's someone other than the registrar (ie a spiritual celebrant or humanist), you can pretty much have whatever you like as long as they agree.

I don't agree that they are shorter necessarily. They CAN be, but I've been to extremely long civil ceremonies as well, with many mnay readings and songs. My own wedding was religious, outdoors and took about 15 minutes because we didn't have the mass bit slapped on as well, just the wedding rites.

You have a lot of flexibility either way, just need to communicate and agree in advance what you want with the celebrant, whoever it is, and within the venues rules.

Leanneire1

Thank you so much to all who answered, I have a much better starting point now!

grainuaile

I was in the same boat as you when I started planning and even now I am only piecing the various bits of info together, I'm not 100% what our ceremony will be like in March On top of what the other posters have said, bear in mind if you're having the local registrar then you're charged an hourly fee (its €50/hr in Sligo, assume the same everywhere) and a small mileage charge if she's travelling to a venue. *sidenote, ours is charging us for 3 hrs even though she's only 15mins from venue and while I know she'll have to be there in plenty of time etc she's still not going to be 2 hrs early!! but I digress....
When I rang to confirm the date with the registrar she took my details and posted out an information pack which has the actual wording of the ceremony and has the sections marked where you can insert your own music/reading etc. Its just one A4 page long which was a blessed relief after spending a week working on my sister's mass booklet!! If you're having trouble trying to come up with readings or peoms, google a few of the british town councils etc as some of them provide lists of examples. That's where I found mine
if you want to private message me your email address I can email you the ceremony wording ...

Leanneire1

grainuaile wrote: »

I was in the same boat as you when I started planning and even now I am only piecing the various bits of info together, I'm not 100% what our ceremony will be like in March On top of what the other posters have said, bear in mind if you're having the local registrar then you're charged an hourly fee (its €50/hr in Sligo, assume the same everywhere) and a small mileage charge if she's travelling to a venue. *sidenote, ours is charging us for 3 hrs even though she's only 15mins from venue and while I know she'll have to be there in plenty of time etc she's still not going to be 2 hrs early!! but I digress....
When I rang to confirm the date with the registrar she took my details and posted out an information pack which has the actual wording of the ceremony and has the sections marked where you can insert your own music/reading etc. Its just one A4 page long which was a blessed relief after spending a week working on my sister's mass booklet!! If you're having trouble trying to come up with readings or peoms, google a few of the british town councils etc as some of them provide lists of examples. That's where I found mine
if you want to private message me your email address I can email you the ceremony wording ...

thanks so much that would be very helpful!

grainuaile

Sent

remsburgsgirl

I am in the same boat OP....we are planning to be married in the registry office & I haven't a clue how it's all done...I am looking at http://www.crsappointments.ie/ and I am trying to book the appointment online to give 3 months notice...

.,.just wondered if anyone could tell me what is the difference between a secular marriage & a civil marriage? (There are 3 options, those two and one for same sex couples)

grainuaile

To my mind secular is when its religious or spiritual( eg catholic or humanist) and civil when its just the legal contract, for want of a better description :-)

Malari

grainuaile wrote: »

To my mind secular is when its religious or spiritual( eg catholic or humanist) and civil when its just the legal contract, for want of a better description :-)

Secular is neutral with respect to religion surely?

evilmonkee

grainuaile wrote: »

To my mind secular is when its religious or spiritual( eg catholic or humanist) and civil when its just the legal contract, for want of a better description :-)

The word secular means something which is religion neutral. Therefore a secular ceremony could not mean one which included religion....

petronius

I dont think the Civil Process of marrying should be a ceremony - it should be just the legal work, and go off and have your party or ceremony in the tradition you wish.
Be that in your back garden, hotel, community hall, football stadium whatever

The idea of a state sponsored civil "ceremony", and a state devise substitute ritual is wrong.

Malari

petronius wrote: »

I dont think the Civil Process of marrying should be a ceremony - it should be just the legal work, and go off and have your party or ceremony in the tradition you wish.
Be that in your back garden, hotel, community hall, football stadium whatever

The idea of a state sponsored civil "ceremony", and a state devise substitute ritual is wrong.

It's not state-sponsored, you are paying for the services of the registrar.

remsburgsgirl

evilmonkee wrote: »

The word secular means something which is religion neutral. Therefore a secular ceremony could not mean one which included religion....

is this secular marriage not the same as a civil marriage then? I don't know which option to pick on the form, I may just call into them to get my facts straight first, it's very confusing! (We just want the legal stuff done, as quick as possible...as we are planning our own family 'ceremony' & celebration a few months after)

remsburgsgirl

(Leanneire1, apologies for hijacking your post!))

Fionn

As said above a secular marriage is one which is no specific religion, but can have a ceremony same as a religious one and has to be soleminised by, for instance a Priest or humanist etc. or a member of a particular secular body. this is a contract between the State, the couple and God or whatever the belief of the secular authority might be.

A civil marriage is a contract between the interested parties i.e the State and the couple and is conducted by the Registrar of Civil Marriages.

Civil, religious / secular, have to be held at places that are open to the public.

@remsburgsgirl you want the Civil Marriagge.

R

stinkle

Secular isn't religious. At the moment only Humanist celebrants are classed as secular. Civil ceremonies are performed by the HSE registrars and religious are everyone else.

Leanneire1

Work away @remsburgsgirl, I found out what I needed to know

Package

lazygal wrote: »

You're not allowed to have any reference to religion in the music, readings or vows in a civil ceremony, but it can be very personal.

thats not true,, most of the content is up to you, so that includes references to religion in any part of your ceremony. or at least thats the case with us (The Spiritualist Union of Ireland)

evilmonkee wrote: »

As
As well as this the officiant will request that you provide them in advance with a copy of the readings / music you intend to use.
This is just to check that the content is non-religious and in keeping with the "ideals" of the ceremony (read: you cant play "baby got back" as part of the ceremony )

this is also not true, we dont need to see readings or music before hand, and you can play the 12 inch remix of "baby got back" if ya like

lazygal

Package wrote: »

thats not true,, most of the content is up to you, so that includes references to religion in any part of your ceremony. or at least thats the case with us (The Spiritualist Union of Ireland)



this is also not true, we dont need to see readings or music before hand, and you can play the 12 inch remix of "baby got back" if ya like

A spiritualist ceremony is NOT the same as a civil ceremony.

Ms2011

lazygal wrote: »

A spiritualist ceremony is NOT the same as a civil ceremony.

This is true, it specifically outlined on the forms we sign when giving notice of intent & booking a registrar for our civil ceremony that there was to be no religious content in the ceremony itself or anywhere in the room it was being held.
They are v.strict on this.

Viserion

We were married by one of Tom Colton's Solemnisers and when we attended at the HSE appointment we were told that our ceremony would be classed as religious not civil (they tick one box or the other on the form) as it was a spiritual ceremony.

In relation to a spiritual ceremony, we had a Walt Whitman poem and some random reading we found on the internet that we loved, really short, about a paragraph long and we had 3 songs as part of our ceremomy - a song from Lord of the Rings, a Ramones song and a Runaways song.

We had no religious content apart from the invocation of the spirit which was done in respect of my husband's parents who have both passed away. God wasn't mentioned. Neither my husband nor I are religious, we don't identify with one particular religion but my husband is spiritual and believes there is "something " after we pass away and that his parents watch over us and keep us safe.
We are interested in and respect different aspects of different religions but none completely to commit to one religion.

Our ceremony lasted 30 minutes. The Solemniser spoke about us and our relationship in a very personal way and included funny stories that made our guests laugh and made it seem even more like it was a day to celebrate us and our guests, who were all involved in our ceremony.

We had a handfasting ceremony which is where the phrase "tying the knot" originated. As each of our guests draped a ribbon over our hands, the Solemniser said something individual about each ribbon and what it represented.

It was the best day ever.

Package

Ms2011 wrote: »

This is true, it specifically outlined on the forms we sign when giving notice of intent & booking a registrar for our civil ceremony that there was to be no religious content in the ceremony itself or anywhere in the room it was being held.
They are v.strict on this.

well maybe its not the same, but in my opinion the sentiment is the same, more or less.

i would break things into a religious ceremony and a non religious ceremony.

realistically, the religious being done by a priest in a church, and a non religious one being anything else.

although the Spiritualist Ceremony technically comes under a "religious" ceremony, the entire ceremony does not have to involve ANYTHING AT ALL religious.

BUT, if you wanted religious stuff if there, the option is there.

lazygal

Package wrote: »

well maybe its not the same, but in my opinion the sentiment is the same, more or less.

i would break things into a religious ceremony and a non religious ceremony.

realistically, the religious being done by a priest in a church, and a non religious one being anything else.

although the Spiritualist Ceremony technically comes under a "religious" ceremony, the entire ceremony does not have to involve ANYTHING AT ALL religious.

BUT, if you wanted religious stuff if there, the option is there.

Your opinion isn't relevant. The HSE classes the spiritualist ceremony as religious, and you should know this if you're performing legally binding marriages under the rules of the HSE. There's no 'technically' about it, spiritualist ceremonies are religious and its disingenuous to suggest otherwise. 'Religious' does not mean 'a priest in a church' - there are many faiths with no priests (e.g. rabbis, pastors etc), religious is a HSE classification under which you would fall, regardless of whether you include what you consider 'religious' references.

A non religious/secular ceremony would be a humanist ceremony, which we had (even though it wasn't legally binding at the time but now would be).

Package

lazygal wrote: »

Your opinion isn't relevant.

well thats nice thanks

lazygal wrote: »

spiritualist ceremonies are religious and its disingenuous to suggest otherwise. 'Religious' does not mean 'a priest in a church' - there are many faiths with no priests (e.g. rabbis, pastors etc), religious is a HSE classification under which you would fall, regardless of whether you include what you consider 'religious' references.

well as i was getting at, to ME, a religious ceremony would be down to content. Im not bothered under what heading it falls under, as the HSE probably put it under that for the want of a better word.

does it not sound strange to have a religious ceremony without anything at all religious in it?

its like playing a game of soccer without a football i suppose.

lazygal

Package wrote: »

well thats nice thanks




well as i was getting at, to ME, a religious ceremony would be down to content. Im not bothered under what heading it falls under, as the HSE probably put it under that for the want of a better word.

does it not sound strange to have a religious ceremony without anything at all religious in it?

its like playing a game of soccer without a football i suppose.

Your opinion on whether a spiritualist union ceremony is religious isn't relevant because you don't get to categorise it, the HSE has already decided its a religious ceremony. This is regardless of the contents of the ceremony, be there any or no religious elements to it. The HSE is only concerned that the ceremony is performed by someone eligible to conduct such a ceremony and that the legal necessities are included, it doesn't care what the content is, unlike when civil registrars perform ceremonies on behalf of the HSE.

Do you perform these ceremonies? If you do, I would have thought you'd be advising prospective couples that you perform religious, not secular or civil ceremonies, regardless of the contents of said ceremonies. It might sound 'strange' to have a religious ceremony with no religion in it, but the HSE still categorizes legal wedding ceremonies performed by approved personnel under the auspices of the spiritualist union (or whatever the overall body is called) as religious, not secular or civil. This should be made clear by spiritualist celebrants, I would have thought. Priests or other religious personnel approved to perform legal weddings won't claim its a secular ceremony.

Sleepy

We had the Spiritualist Union of Ireland perform our ceremony in our hotel. We had a string trio play a Bob Dylan song while my wife's father walked her down the "aisle", the celebrant welcomed our guests, we performed a sand ceremony which we were able to include the kids in (the celebrant explained the significance of the sand ceremony prior to this), we then took our (self penned) vows, exchanged rings and the trio played a Metallica Song as we signed the registrar followed by a Journey song as we walked back down the "aisle" together.

Whole thing lasted about 20 minutes and we got a lot of positive comments on it from guests (including quite a few teasing my wife that the ceremony was shorter than the wait!). Althought there wasn't a single mention of spirits, gods, angels, demons or flying spaghetti monsters, legally, it would be classified as a religious marriage as the Spiritualists are licensed to perform weddings as a religious organisation. Luckily they're a lot more open minded than a lot of the other religions in this country and are quite happy to perform non-religious weddings for those of us who want them but don't fancy a mid-week wedding.

Package

lazygal wrote: »

Your opinion on whether a spiritualist union ceremony is religious isn't relevant because you don't get to categorise it, the HSE has already decided its a religious ceremony. This is regardless of the contents of the ceremony, be there any or no religious elements to it. The HSE is only concerned that the ceremony is performed by someone eligible to conduct such a ceremony and that the legal necessities are included, it doesn't care what the content is, unlike when civil registrars perform ceremonies on behalf of the HSE.

Do you perform these ceremonies? If you do, I would have thought you'd be advising prospective couples that you perform religious, not secular or civil ceremonies, regardless of the contents of said ceremonies. It might sound 'strange' to have a religious ceremony with no religion in it, but the HSE still categorizes legal wedding ceremonies performed by approved personnel under the auspices of the spiritualist union (or whatever the overall body is called) as religious, not secular or civil. This should be made clear by spiritualist celebrants, I would have thought. Priests or other religious personnel approved to perform legal weddings won't claim its a secular ceremony.

ok, im NOT trying to categorise it. Im tryin to get the point across that although it may fall under a "religious" ceremony. There does not have to be anything religious at all. So when someone hears the words "religious ceremony" it doesnt necessarily make it religious in content. clear now?

I DO perform the ceremonies. I dont feel the need to explain to the couples under what HSE catagory they fall under, as im sure most of them have checked the website, anyway, most people dont care what catagory the "spiritual ceremony" falls under, what they do care about is that they can choose the tie/content/music/readings ect, ,and thats the point i was trying to make.

lazygal

Package wrote: »

ok, im NOT trying to categorise it. Im tryin to get the point across that although it may fall under a "religious" ceremony. There does not have to be anything religious at all. So when someone hears the words "religious ceremony" it doesnt necessarily make it religious in content. clear now?

I DO perform the ceremonies. I dont feel the need to explain to the couples under what HSE catagory they fall under, as im sure most of them have checked the website, anyway, most people dont care what catagory the "spiritual ceremony" falls under, what they do care about is that they can choose the tie/content/music/readings ect, ,and thats the point i was trying to make.

If I was looking into someone to perform a ceremony I'd want to know which category they fall under as me and my husband aren't religious and wouldn't want a ceremony falling under a 'religious' heading. I still think its slightly disingenuous to perform ceremonies under a religious heading and feel that you don't need to tell your clients this, regardless of whether they've done their research. Our humanist celebrant couldn't have been clearer about the type of ceremony he performs.

Malari

Package wrote: »

ok, im NOT trying to categorise it. Im tryin to get the point across that although it may fall under a "religious" ceremony. There does not have to be anything religious at all. So when someone hears the words "religious ceremony" it doesnt necessarily make it religious in content. clear now?

I DO perform the ceremonies. I dont feel the need to explain to the couples under what HSE catagory they fall under, as im sure most of them have checked the website, anyway, most people dont care what catagory the "spiritual ceremony" falls under, what they do care about is that they can choose the tie/content/music/readings ect, ,and thats the point i was trying to make.

I certainly would, if I was having a civil ceremony. As far as I'm concerned any mention of the afterlife, or having someone watch over, or feeling like there's something out there, is very religious in content even if no specific gods are mentioned. Religious encompasses spiritual as far as I'm concerned.

King Krib

Sleepy wrote: »

We had the Spiritualist Union of Ireland perform our ceremony in our hotel. We had a string trio play a Bob Dylan song while my wife's father walked her down the "aisle", the celebrant welcomed our guests, we performed a sand ceremony which we were able to include the kids in (the celebrant explained the significance of the sand ceremony prior to this), we then took our (self penned) vows, exchanged rings and the trio played a Metallica Song as we signed the registrar followed by a Journey song as we walked back down the "aisle" together.

Whole thing lasted about 20 minutes and we got a lot of positive comments on it from guests (including quite a few teasing my wife that the ceremony was shorter than the wait!). Althought there wasn't a single mention of spirits, gods, angels, demons or flying spaghetti monsters, legally, it would be classified as a religious marriage as the Spiritualists are licensed to perform weddings as a religious organisation. Luckily they're a lot more open minded than a lot of the other religions in this country and are quite happy to perform non-religious weddings for those of us who want them but don't fancy a mid-week wedding.

We had an SUI ceremony for our wedding recently, Tom Colton was the solemniser. It was fantastic, all comments were very positive. The ceremony is basically a blank canvas to be personalised by you. This is the way forward. .

Package

lazygal wrote: »

If I was looking into someone to perform a ceremony I'd want to know which category they fall under as me and my husband aren't religious and wouldn't want a ceremony falling under a 'religious' heading.

well the thing is,, im massively anti religious. cant stand it, and hate all things religious. so i suppose the content of the ceremony would matter to me rather than whats written on a piece of paper in a drawer, in the HSE office, miles away from where i am having my wedding.. just my thoughts.

Malari wrote: »

I certainly would, if I was having a civil ceremony. As far as I'm concerned any mention of the afterlife, or having someone watch over, or feeling like there's something out there, is very religious in content even if no specific gods are mentioned. Religious encompasses spiritual as far as I'm concerned.

We as said in this thread loads of times, if you didnt want any of that mentioned, then we wouldnt mention it.

Malari wrote: »

Religious encompasses spiritual as far as I'm concerned

couldnt be further from the truth

Malari

Package wrote: »

couldnt be further from the truth

I don't think I'm far from the truth at all. Spiritual is something that's hard to define but there's a distinct religious or mystical association with most interpretations.

evilmonkee

Package wrote: »

well the thing is,, im massively anti religious. cant stand it, and hate all things religious. so i suppose the content of the ceremony would matter to me rather than whats written on a piece of paper in a drawer, in the HSE office, miles away from where i am having my wedding.. just my thoughts.

If you were anti-religion why would you want a wedding under the heading of religion? I mean, for statistical purposes you chose to have a religious wedding. Thus adding to number of religious people in the country, and adding to the pro-religion numbers. I'm not personally against religion, but I dont think that being anti-religion and having a religious classified wedding go hand in hand....

Whether you think its religious or not isn't going to make any difference when the numbers are being counted! The HSE will not phone you up and say "Hey, you know your wedding? Well its classified as religious but we just wanted to check if it included religious content? No? Oh, ok, I'll put it down as secular so..."

lazygal

Package wrote: »

well the thing is,, im massively anti religious. cant stand it, and hate all things religious. so i suppose the content of the ceremony would matter to me rather than whats written on a piece of paper in a drawer, in the HSE office, miles away from where i am having my wedding.. just my thoughts.

If you're anti religious, why do you perform religious ceremonies? Surely humanist ceremonies would suit your beliefs or lack thereof?

As a prospective client I would not be happy to have the fact that you perform religious ceremonies (whatever their content)under the auspices of what is classed as a religious organization hidden or brushed aside and I would wonder why you as a celebrant would stand over such ceremonies as an anti religious person.

Why do you think its okay not to mention that your ceremonies are classed as religious? Do you think its something that might put clients off?

DeadParrot

I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect with a secular wedding performed by a self proclaimed medium.
Anyone help me here?

lazygal

DeadParrot wrote: »

I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect with a secular wedding performed by a self proclaimed medium.
Anyone help me here?

Let me consult my crystals, tarot cards and the stars and get back to you.

Package

well if the points you are trying to make are going down that road sure whats the point??

im not going to get into a silly debate over it..

My spin on being a spiritualist is that if YOU are happy, then I am happy.

So are you all happy?

then good,, you may now go in peace to praise the lord, and such and such

Sleepy

DeadParrot wrote: »

I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect with a secular wedding performed by a self proclaimed medium.
Anyone help me here?

The HSE won't do weekend weddings and many of us don't like asking friends and family to use their annual leave to attend a mid-week wedding.

Until the middle of this year, the only option available for a weekend wedding that didn't include religion in the ceremony was to avail of the fact the Spiritualist Union of Ireland were prepared to put their own religious aside and perform secular weddings for people. They're also far more flexible on the content and nature of the ceremony you want to go with the legalities than the HSE are.

Now that the Humanists are licensed to perform weddings, I imagine they'll fill this section of the market.